Character Competitive Impressions

[Quickhero]

Also, you have needles? So do we (esp. if we're talking jumping inhale).

You also forgot to mention that Kirby gets Sheik's pre-1.04 needles and thus has reduced endlag, while Sheik has to stick with post-1.04 needles.

 

[|RK|]

You also forgot to mention that Kirby gets Sheik's pre-1.04 needles and thus has reduced endlag, while Sheik has to stick with post-1.04 needles.

That too! I kinda like the fact that they neglect to change Kirby's Copy Abilities when they change characters. Don't we still have OG Homing Attack, too?

 

[Smog Frog]

does have lasers

 

[Ikes]

I'd honestly advocate for Pikachu being the top character in the game, or at least number two. Him and Luigi in fact, since Luigi is just extremely powerful.

Luigi has considerably the best array of grab options in the game, practically all of his moves can be used after a throw at different percentages. Not to mention he only has one or two moves that come out after frame 3 or 4. His extremely quick attacks coupled with his throws perfect for comboing make him one of the strongest characters in the game. He also has one of the most versatile zoning tools in the game. His Fireball is just absolutely perfect for zoning and it even fits into some of his combos.

Pikachu has a very large array of strong attacks with little ending/landing lag making him one of the most difficult characters to punish. He has one of the most versatile projectiles in the game, being one of the most useful approach tools as well as a perfect edgeguarding tool, and a very strong recovery. He's hard to kill and doesn't have much trouble killing either, although his weakness is definitely having marginally less kill power than other characters in his tier range, but this is almost a non-issue due to how survivable he is.

My personal top 3 are Pikachu, Luigi, and Sheik.

Also, it may be a bit biased? but i think Kirby is at least A- tier due to him matching up well against higher tiered characters like Ness, Zero Suit Samus, and Sheik, and being on equal ground with the likes of Diddy, he simply performs well against higher tiers. His biggest weakness is disjoints, which is why he struggles more against characters like Marth and sometimes Link, especially since Link has some range options to slow Kirby's approaches. However, his approach options still are hard to stall due to his mobility.

I don't see how Kirby has bad approach options, his air mobility is great for keeping him close enough to punish any attempts at punishing his approach. He's good at punishing attempted punishes and he's good at baiting attacks. He's probably the king of punishes (Hammer Flip is probably the most satisfying punish in the game, along with Stone, and his oddly powerful F-Smash).

 

[Trifroze]

Personally, I'd rather go with Luigi, Villager, or min weight Mii since they're right at the middle right now as there's currently 56 characters and they're ranked 23 which is the middle, but whatever. I used Pit for the Falco's KO percents since Mewtwo wasn't there and he, Dark Pit, and Wii Fit Trainer were the closest to the middle. I don't know why Mario's slightly heavier in this game than being dead on average weight. I wonder if say, we used Jigglypuff, Mario (or whoever), and Bowser for KO percents and average the data up instead if see if that's more accurate. It'd take a lot of time, but less than going through all the characters and averaging all of that up.

I used to use Villager for my tests before, but while he's in the middle of weight rankings, Mario is in the middle of weight values (Bowser: 128, Mario: 98, Jigglypuff: 68). This may be more unpractical though because the fact is that there are more lightweights than heavyweights in the game by this definition. More importantly though Mario has a gravity value that is also much closer to the average of all characters than Luigi, Villager or Mii Brawler have, and it affects the difference between how easily you die vertically versus horizontally. For instance, Falcon and Yoshi have the same weight value but Yoshi dies roughly 6% earlier than Falcon vertically while Falcon dies roughly 3% earlier than Yoshi horizontally (assuming they're dying at percentages between 100 and 120).

 

[TriTails]

People seem to think that ONLY Luigi's D-throw is what makes him gud.

I looked back at Mr. CC's and False's videos. What did I see? SH aerials for life. Yep, I believe that's what makes Luigi good along with D-throw. Even if you don't get caught in his D-throw, he still racks damage up real quickly with such high damage output (Lagless F7 F-air that does 9%. Or F5 U-air that deals 11%, or F6 B-air that nets you bleeping 14%) if he closes in on you.

No, I don't mean that his D-throw is useless. Indeed, D-throw is what makes Luigi where he is, but it's not the ONLY thing that makes Luigi good IMO.

Yes, I used to fish for grabs, only to either get walled out by tilts like Bowser's F-tilt, get ducked by Kirby, or hell, GET JUMPED. I'm that bad, but I believe this applies for every Luigi mains.

...Or I'm that bad.

 

[Shaya]

KIRBY IS THE DARK HORSE.

One of the most buffed characters from the patch, probably getting a lot more than we know right now (frame datas are hard).
IMO IMO though, ZSS manages Kirby fine. I never knew side-b was actually a worthwhile move in this game until I started practicing Kirby and came to play against them too (I had to figure out a way to deal with crouchers somehow, side-b is, after my successful Zair campaign my most proclaimed underrated move for her now). I just think his mobility is too little to really keep up with her, even if it's extremely frustrating to deal with him without match up knowledge. I could see customs making it even or maybe an advantage to Kirby, but no experience against/as that at all really.

Against Sheik on the over hand? Yeah, nah, don't like playing her against him lol.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

People seem to think that ONLY Luigi's D-throw is what makes him gud.

I looked back at Mr. CC's and False's videos. What did I see? SH aerials for life. Yep, I believe that's what makes Luigi good along with D-throw. Even if you don't get caught in his D-throw, he still racks damage up real quickly with such high damage output (Lagless F7 F-air that does 9%. Or F5 U-air that deals 11%, or F6 B-air that nets you bleeping 14%) if he closes in on you.

No, I don't mean that his D-throw is useless. Indeed, D-throw is what makes Luigi where he is, but it's not the ONLY thing that makes Luigi good IMO.

Yes, I used to fish for grabs, only to either get walled out by tilts like Bowser's F-tilt, get ducked by Kirby, or hell, GET JUMPED. I'm that bad, but I believe this applies for every Luigi mains.

...Or I'm that bad.

Something else about Luigi that I think is rather unique is a frame 3 (?) sex kick that knocks the target above Luigi, of all places. Personally I'd be wary of going for lengthy juggles on him for fear of getting it flipped around on me.

 

[Pazx]

@ Smog Frog @Asdioh @ |RK| @ Ikes (I won't tag Shaya bc he never leaves this thread but I look forward to seeing his thoughts)

Let's go into more depth. Kirby as a character isn't discussed that much, I've seen people saying the Kirby:Sheik matchup is 50:50 more times than I've seen any actual discussion. Why does he do well against Sheik? The more detail you (and anybody else who is knowledgeable about Kirby, Puff, or their matchups with Sheik) provide the better as it means this thread is being productive again and you're exposing if not advancing the meta of two underrated and under developed characters.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

One of the most buffed characters from the patch, probably getting a lot more than we know right now (frame datas are hard).
IMO IMO though, ZSS manages Kirby fine. I never knew side-b was actually a worthwhile move in this game until I started practicing Kirby and came to play against them too (I had to figure out a way to deal with crouchers somehow, side-b is, after my successful Zair campaign my most proclaimed underrated move for her now). I just think his mobility is too little to really keep up with her, even if it's extremely frustrating to deal with him without match up knowledge. I could see customs making it even or maybe an advantage to Kirby, but no experience against/as that at all really.

Against Sheik on the over hand? Yeah, nah, don't like playing her against him lol.

ZSS vs Kirby can become one of the most frustrating MUs for both characters. The only thing Kirby really has against ZSS is crouching and above average combo game against her (not Fox good, but not Marth bad). However, both of those benefit Kirby greatly. Yet... ZSS beats him in everything else. Landing against her ends up becoming such a chore, and he can't use Grounding Stone to get out of this because tether grab and lol mobility. However, hitting a crouching Kirby is horrible, especially with the magical 1.0.7 crouching C-Stick changes.

I can see this MU really coming down to what stage it's played on. Lower ceiling or platforms highly benefit ZSS here, everything else is alright for Kirby.

also unpunishable Down B spam is stupid with Kirby mobility

 

[Ikes]

@ Smog Frog @Asdioh @ |RK| @ Ikes (I won't tag Shaya bc he never leaves this thread but I look forward to seeing his thoughts)

Let's go into more depth. Kirby as a character isn't discussed that much, I've seen people saying the Kirby:Sheik matchup is 50:50 more times than I've seen any actual discussion. Why does he do well against Sheik? The more detail you (and anybody else who is knowledgeable about Kirby, Puff, or their matchups with Sheik) provide the better as it means this thread is being productive again and you're exposing if not advancing the meta of two underrated and under developed characters.

Most of these characters (excluding Ness) that I mentioned are close quarters. They tend to be in-your-face to deal damage and kill. This is their general zone. Kirby is great at countering this because he has a lot of options to punish players for approaching (such as inhale, and more situationally, final cutter) which tend to stunt the efforts of players like sheik to approach and deal damage/start combos/strings. His options to both approach and stop approaches are what makes him so fair against sheik. He can stop an approach just as easily as he can approach, his moveset gives him the ability to turn a battle in the opposite momentum than the opponent is trying to use to their advantage. He also has the excellent opportunity to use sheik's needles against her.

Generally speaking, the more utility the opponent's neutral special provides, the more Kirby will be fairly matched against the opposing player.

He simply tends to fare well against Rushdown/aggressive or offensive characters like Sheik, Falcon, Diddy, etc due to his ability to punish approaches. The Ness argument is different, it's mostly his ability to avoid projectiles that gives him fair game against Ness. He can easily avoid all of Ness' projectiles due to his strong air mobility. PK Flash and Fire are easy to escape for obvious reasons, and when Ness tries to toss out a PK thunder, he can weave around it and go directly for Ness to punish. Ness' smashes also have only marginally longer range than Kirby's smashes, and tend to take longer to execute, giving Kirby more of an edge with his smash attacks.

Also from my own experience, Ness is a combo sponge when Kirby tosses out his up tilt.


The reason I say he suffers against disjoints is because most characters with disjointed moves tend to attack past his punish options. Thus you have his Marth matchup.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I think Kirby is a mostly terrible character with brokenly polarizing matchup gimmicks. His crouch legitimately breaks very specific matchups when some characters may have very weak options to pressure it, like Sheik and Captain Falcon. His edgeguards are situational to set up but about as lethal as Ganondorf's when he gets to set them up. And Swallow does some very dumb things in some matchups like versus Sheik herself when Kirby in some cases is able to use Copy abilities better than his opponent.

Like, Ganondorf honestly beats Kirby convincingly. He's heavy, and his D-tilt and Flame Choke are too scary for Kirby to crouch against, while his N-air and U-air also wall out Kirby from the air. So I don't think Kirby is overall a solid character. But his ability to outcamp Sheik after Copy, trivialize a lot of her normally ultra dominant neutral game, and outperform her drastically in raw punish situations gives him some unusually potent strengths in that matchup.

 

[TriTails]

Something else about Luigi that I think is rather unique is a frame 3 (?) sex kick that knocks the target above Luigi, of all places. Personally I'd be wary of going for lengthy juggles on him for fear of getting it flipped around on me.

The only sex kick that has vertical knockback .

Though... You play Rosalina... Am I correct? (Looking at your avatar here)

A single D-air breaks N-air juggles, because of its short range and the fact that it's a sex kick, you have to hit people at the first three frames it's out, or else it'll be a weak one. I think U-air is better for juggling, and N-air is better for killing overall.

Though, DON'T do a D-air too soon or... well, get punished. But this should go without saying.

 

[Sheddy]

been trying to think of a counter for DDD I mostly use Morton and Rob and it always seems like each time I try to play safe he can get through and each time I rush he can bat me away DDD seems to be that one character I always struggle against

 

[|RK|]

@ Smog Frog @Asdioh @ |RK| @ Ikes (I won't tag Shaya bc he never leaves this thread but I look forward to seeing his thoughts)

Let's go into more depth. Kirby as a character isn't discussed that much, I've seen people saying the Kirby:Sheik matchup is 50:50 more times than I've seen any actual discussion. Why does he do well against Sheik? The more detail you (and anybody else who is knowledgeable about Kirby, Puff, or their matchups with Sheik) provide the better as it means this thread is being productive again and you're exposing if not advancing the meta of two underrated and under developed characters.

Asdioh has explained this, but Sheik is a fast faller, making utilt strings very useful at racking up early damage. Crouch allows Kirby to ignore Sheik's greatest tool in neutral, her needles. Now since one of Kirby's greatest weaknesses is approaching, being able to ignore that option is huge. That's before getting to how Kirby can copy (lower lag) needles himself, allowing him to outcamp Sheik and actually force an approach. Sheik's limited kill power also works in Kirby's favor - he gets to survive to way higher percents than he's used to. To add to that, his multiple jumps help him out a lot in the way of avoiding Sheik's ever-dominant edgeguarding, as well as juggles.

Basically, Kirby has an answer to most everything that Sheik excels in.

 

[Ikes]

Asdioh has explained this, but Sheik is a fast faller, making utilt strings very useful at racking up early damage. Crouch allows Kirby to ignore Sheik's greatest tool in neutral, her needles. Now since one of Kirby's greatest weaknesses is approaching, being able to ignore that option is huge. That's before getting to how Kirby can copy (lower lag) needles himself, allowing him to outcamp Sheik and actually force an approach. Sheik's limited kill power also works in Kirby's favor - he gets to survive to way higher percents than he's used to. To add to that, his multiple jumps help him out a lot in the way of avoiding Sheik's ever-dominant edgeguarding, as well as juggles.

Basically, Kirby has an answer to most everything that Sheik excels in.

I dont understand how Kirby has a "weak" approach, he just has a slightly defensive one, he tends to float and bait attacks and punish and he's actually very well built for this approach tactic. it's not "bad", it's just unorthodox IMHO

 

[|RK|]

I dont understand how Kirby has a "weak" approach, he just has a slightly defensive one, he tends to float and bait attacks and punish and he's actually very well built for this approach tactic. it's not "bad", it's just unorthodox IMHO

His airspeed is awful for that. That's probably more of a Jigglypuff thing.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Top 5 imo (in no order) is Diddy, Pikachu, Rosalina, Sheik, and Sonic. Diddy is still obv top 5 imo, and I dont see how small damage nerfs and removal of his uair killing stupidly low makes what used to be a near god tier character not still amazing. Lets face it, Diddy is still crazy good, just not stupid anymore. Sheik got nothing but a slap on the wrist with bair nerfs, meaning she just needs to work for kills a little more, and all Sonic lost was practically a cheese kill that was just dumb, he's still super solid and still is just fine at finding kills, just now he cant randomly grab you and get kills at 80% from the middle of the screen since he jumps so far back.

And I dont think Luigi is top 5, imo hes bottom of top 10ish at best, he's still super slow and has problems dealing with projectiles/zoners, and has a gimpable recovery. He also has a really hard time landing when being juggled and can have a hard time getting in on characters with strong out of shield options. All that being said, he's still super solid with one of the best combo games, kill set ups, mix ups, etc, so hes solid, but top 5? Nah, I dont see it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Kirby's neutral B is a legitimately great move after the patch - if it hasn't been one before already. Not only does Kirby get to copy amazing moves like Shadow Ball, Needles, Monado Art, Can, Bonus Fruit or Paralyzer but it's also a pretty good mix-up option. Not on the same level as Bite or Egg Lay but definitely very useful.

 

[TriTails]

been trying to think of a counter for DDD I mostly use Morton and Rob and it always seems like each time I try to play safe he can get through and each time I rush he can bat me away DDD seems to be that one character I always struggle against

Luigi stomps D3 pretty hard.

And I dont think Luigi is top 5, imo hes bottom of top 10ish at best, he's still super slow and has problems dealing with projectiles/zoners, and has a gimpable recovery. He also has a really hard time landing when being juggled and can have a hard time getting in on characters with strong out of shield options. All that being said, he's still super solid with one of the best combo games, kill set ups, mix ups, etc, so hes solid, but top 5? Nah, I dont see it.

Calling Luigi Top 10 is already very generous. Hell, he doesn'teven belong to 'bottom of Top 10'. 'Middle of Top 15 or 20' is more like it.

Sure, he's good with the tops, but he for some reasons loses to random bottom and low tier characters (LM, G&W), and gets hard countered by Mega Man, and loses to Sheik, Greninja, Rosalina, all are good characters. Oh, and Pac-Man.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

G&W isn't a 'random bottom and low tier character' though. I think he's actually kinda good in smash 4.

 

[TriTails]

Really? I thought the general consensus was GnW was a low tier?

But then again.

GENERAL consensus.

Don't mind me.

 

[HeroMystic]

The only thing holding G&W back is his weight. He's pretty good everywhere else despite not being as strong as he was in Brawl. Without bucket braking, his crippling flaw is a very big thing, so the general strategy vs G&W is to outlast him.

 

[bc1910]

That is the consensus, but it makes sense. He ended up being pretty average in Brawl and was mostly nerfed from that game, and none of the mechanics changes help him much. Down throw is good and 9s are cheesy enough to make him better than like Zelda but he has massive issues in killing, and surviving. Living is a huge issue for G&W with generally buffed recoveries and no bucket braking.

I think he's pretty bad.

 

[Radical Larry]

He's very bad and easily susceptible to edge-guards, has very light weight, poor ground mobility, very laggy attacks (he's had them since Melee) that are completely predictable. The few attacks he has that aren't so laggy are his aerials and tilts. Kind of a poor grab game, average combo game and decent knockback. He's not one of the bottom, but he's still bad.

It may be just me, though, but I don't think he has any beneficiary IASA frames to help him.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Brawl G&W was pretty overrated and his general modus operandi was to gimmick people into getting hit by one of his super powerful smashes. Nair and upB were like his only good bread and butter moves though, the rest could be punished pretty reliably.

In Smash 4 G&W actually has a ground game. He has a jab, gets good reward out of a grab at like any %, and his anti-air game is still good [one of the things that saved him in Brawl]. His fsmash may not be as powerful as it once was but it has good range - pivot fsmash covers alot of stuff and his usmash is downright silly.

His weight does hold him back though.

 

[Browny]

I still get mad that I cant SDI his attacks or grab armour him out of his smash attacks...

The mechanics of the game has buffed him a lot, loss of bucket braking is too much though to say hes better. that was a glitch anyway.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Asdioh has explained this, but Sheik is a fast faller, making utilt strings very useful at racking up early damage. Crouch allows Kirby to ignore Sheik's greatest tool in neutral, her needles. Now since one of Kirby's greatest weaknesses is approaching, being able to ignore that option is huge. That's before getting to how Kirby can copy (lower lag) needles himself, allowing him to outcamp Sheik and actually force an approach. Sheik's limited kill power also works in Kirby's favor - he gets to survive to way higher percents than he's used to. To add to that, his multiple jumps help him out a lot in the way of avoiding Sheik's ever-dominant edgeguarding, as well as juggles.

Basically, Kirby has an answer to most everything that Sheik excels in.

To add, because of Kirby having Lightweight + Float properties, her strings aren't reliable against him.
Both Sheik and Kirby are fairly combo-oriented characters, except Kirby hits harder per hit then Sheik does, meaning Kirby doesnt have a problem trading with her, since. Since Sheik strings less attacks together due to his properties.

When sheik is no longer getting 12-17%+ connections as she does on most of the cast and is instead getting her 5%/7% here and there its different from Kirby throwing a single ftilt for 8% or a grab + some pummel change here, and still retaining combos/string of which can net him 20-30% damage and she can't muster the same in response. Even something like a Dtilt trip and getting a grab can lead to 5 pummels and a U/D-throw for 21%+ damage later on and she still can't muster the same damage in response.


With the (un)fortunate scenario that Kirby also props out of her F-smash rather frequently. She's facing a character that she doesn't excel (relative to her standards) at putting damage on, or killing, Kirby makes better trades and on the other hand can kill her earlier with greater reliability. Rage works against her as it only makes follow ups more difficult, meanwhile Kirby might kill her ~90% with rage from the possibility of a (pivot)F-smash and it's not at all unreasonable because of their range difference being small enough and Sheiks greater commitment with aerial attacks to hit his smaller frame, in tandem with her weaker reward on tilts,reduced practicality with Smashes and that if she doesn't actually get anything out of it her throws aren't particularly damaging either plus they will essentially never kill.

On Sheiks side, Kirby being light also means she kills earlier, and whether Kirby has needles or not, Sheik can still win neutral. She'll have to make more hits, but its not like Sheik has an inability to do so and while we mentioned Kirbys multi-jumps he still hasslow air movement. Sheik has opportunities to try and press for more damage while he is airborne despite his bait because of how slow he moves aerially and her U-air + Nair never losing relevancy. Kirbys so slow in the bloody air I feel like I would rather of played Pit if I want to play an edgeguard game against Sheik.

 

[bc1910]

So does Jigglypuf's crouch give Sheik the same issues as Kirby's?

 

[Project Quarantine]

He's very bad and easily susceptible to edge-guards

What? GW has one of the best recoveries in the game. It is invincible going up, has a hitbox, glides for days, can be cancelled by any attack, and can get you on to the ledge from near blast zone.

To add on, his egde-guarding is fantastic. He can go super deep with multiple great offstage kill options in the form of dair, fair, and bair. In this, he benefits greatly from stellar aerial mobility.

He can also do this:http://youtu.be/oDvk3PMTVH0
Music 10/10
That crouch 0_O

 

[DunnoBro]

I just want to talk about the lesser characters in the game for a bit. How about custom ike or duck hunt. How do they fair?

The only way duck hunt can remain viable is via customs, honestly.

The fact I'm seeing MVD's DHD get 2-stocked by randoms then run it back with diddy is very sobering. DHD likely only remained somewhat relevant this long because people just don't understand him. First time I beat boss in tournament, he literally just sat there while I fully charged my fsmash the last stock. (Amsa did the same thing against MVD at APEX)

But overall he's a very mediocre character who has a lot of traps and can force a lot of unavoidable situations where he puts on huge amounts of damage, but these traps don't kill and his killing options require pretty obvious mistakes from the opponent. His footsies are non-existent, he has a good grab (and bad throws) but that's it.

He gets no kills off punishes, only reads. His projectiles don't kill or lead into kills reliably. For a keep-away character like him to only be able to kill reliably while in rage mode is so contradictory. (Even sweetspot bair doesn't kill from mid-stage until 160% without rage. This bair also is laggy and demands a tipper mechanic for it to ever kill)

Zigzag however enables low % kills via the auto combo, or zigzag > upair > zigzag. There may be potential with quick gunmen, but it's worse in the neutral than mega/default.

Ness gets destroyed by Kong Cyclone. I have no idea what Sakurai was thinking when he made that move to be quite honest. It's as brainless Brawl Mach Tornado and I actually feel bad when I net KOs with it. It's that stupid.

It's possibly worse than mach tornado since it kills more reliably and has janky properties. Only reason it's somewhat acceptable is that it's on DK, and has less freedom of use.

 

[GeneralLedge]

G&W's dtilt also has a weird-ass windbox that can launch people into the sky, the closer they are to it without touching it. Probably the same deal with uair, as I've seen it kill a few unsuspecting people via windbox alone.

 

[Meru.]

I thought the G&W is bad trains was dead after we saw stuff like this? He did get fourth in a big Japanese tourney after all.

Not saying GW is high or something but he's definitely not bad.

 

[outfoxd]

The only way duck hunt can remain viable is via customs, honestly.

The fact I'm seeing MVD's DHD get 2-stocked by randoms then run it back with diddy is very sobering. DHD likely only remained somewhat relevant this long because people just don't understand him. First time I beat boss in tournament, he literally just sat there while I fully charged my fsmash the last stock. (Amsa did the same thing against MVD at APEX)

But overall he's a very mediocre character who has a lot of traps and can force a lot of unavoidable situations where he puts on huge amounts of damage, but these traps don't kill and his killing options require pretty obvious mistakes from the opponent. His footsies are non-existent, he has a good grab (and bad throws) but that's it.

He gets no kills off punishes, only reads. His projectiles don't kill or lead into kills reliably. For a keep-away character like him to only be able to kill reliably while in rage mode is so contradictory. (Even sweetspot bair doesn't kill from mid-stage until 160% without rage. This bair also is laggy and demands a tipper mechanic for it to ever kill)

Zigzag however enables low % kills via the auto combo, or zigzag > upair > zigzag. There may be potential with quick gunmen, but it's worse in the neutral than mega/default.



It's possibly worse than mach tornado since it kills more reliably and has janky properties. Only reason it's somewhat acceptable is that it's on DK, and has less freedom of use.

Its unpleasant that they put such interesting concepts into a half finished package. Like they were afraid to commit to giving him power or advantages for fear of going too far.

I'm in a relatively customs unfriendly scene, too. So I'm in a bind

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The only way duck hunt can remain viable is via customs, honestly.

The fact I'm seeing MVD's DHD get 2-stocked by randoms then run it back with diddy is very sobering. DHD likely only remained somewhat relevant this long because people just don't understand him.

If you wanna see a good DHD you gotta watch Brood though.

 

[DunnoBro]

If you wanna see a good DHD you gotta watch Brood though.

There's only so many DHDs out there, I watch brood plenty. Not sure why he's supposed to change my opinion at all. His most recent tournament he got knocked out by randoms. (only 1 win in winner's bracket)

It really only concretes my opinion.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The people he loses to aren't "random" though. And he places like 9th - 5th in just about any tournament he attends ... better than, say, amsa does.

 

[DunnoBro]

The people he loses to aren't "random" though. And he places like 9th - 5th in just about any tournament he attends ... better than, say, amsa does.

I've never heard of the people he's losing to, and they lose to other people I never heard to right after beating him.
Often getting destroyed.

And he places like 9th - 5th in just about any tournament he attends ...

Not only do his more recent results not follow this trend, but that ignores my point. I said DHD lacks fundamental weight, and thrives off being misunderstood. As the ONLY DHD even resembling a threat in japan, him having less and less success as people learn more about the game and thus DHD only concretes my opinion about DHD being more gimmicky than good.

 

[Champ Gold]

Man, I've been playing for a while and I've believe that he isn't as bad as most people believe. He's pretty underrated, I just want ish his Up-Smash can kill better also his maybe a some tuning on is tilts.

Also I haven't been seeing any players in tournaments or online either, is she bad or forgotten?

 

[ChronoPenguin]

We can't mention that DHDs recovery is among the easier ones in the game to to tag as Ness PK2 without the risk of getting blown up if you miss due to its slow initial lift in tandem with no hitbox.