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Yeah, "max" rage is 150% onwards.
So the stickied threads stand out more so people go to the right section.Yeah, "max" rage is 150% onwards.
May I ask what's with the new 'official' tag for this thread?
I don't think it was stacked at all. Like none of the japanese top players were there. And the whole thing was best of 1, right?
Imo fox doesn't destroy him, pika does. Fox has way too much trouble starting his combo when all he has is unsafe on shield or whiff, and can't rely on his amazing speed to get in (Falcon has the same problem) because the gyro can wall him.
People like you got ROB nerfed in 1.0.6. QQ
It's OK, this was Falco's spotdodge in Brawl:
I know you were joking here but I just thought I'd mention I think it's really weird the way ROB was nerfed in 1.06. Up Throw was only utilized by ROB players who actually knew what they were doing in my experience, your typical ROB player would just spam his specials and nab kills with the ol' spotdodge > Dsmash, or some random aerial. This is what people tended to complain about. Yet instead they introduced a nerf that punished the better ROB players, unlike Sonic whose nerfs seemed to target For Glory cheese (the back throw nerf hurts at all levels of play but it was also really common online, unlike ROB's kill throw).
But thats dumb: Rosalina and Zss are nowhere significantly more viable than some others, and have some Matchup that are soo bad they need a secondary to ensure the win. Gap in viability are, in this game, way more illusional than before. And we should adapt our tier list to the huge cast we got. To define a top 10 when there is 30 character is meaningful. The same thing when there is 54 is meaningless, and lead to useless debates, because we can do nothing but lie when we say that 10 characters are with a good margin more viable than the others 44. It's indeed impossible to classify perfectly, but we can find one classification which avoids clear lies. Currently some characters are tournament viable, but are excluded from the tournament viable tier because that's it.
There is no way uthrow nerf affects his overall viabililty, because relying on a killing throw was stupid from the start, and if you think ROB MU are worse now it's sad. We used to be lazy, but if we work we can let it go.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree. Your statement about relying on a kill throw is too vague for me to understand what you mean, and just makes me feel like you hate kill throws in general. I feel like ROB's uthrow was an important part of his plan, and it hurts him to have one of his important tools nerfed. I do still think he's viable though. Also, I don't understand what's so "sad" about me thinking ROB's MUs got worse post patch. ROB used uthrow to kill in every matchup, uthrow is now nerfed, hence ROB's MUs are worse against characters that weren't changed in the patch. It doesn't always reflect in the numerical ratios (ie. a 60-40 matchup may not become a 63-35 one), but it seems logical that ROB's MUs would be worse.
This is more an argument against your own point. Some characters ARE indeed tournament viable and would be excluded from your tiers because there's a few characters that get in there before them. Like, it makes no sense to have DDD be a mid tier as part of the numbers and Doc as a low tier right next to him if their actual viability is about even, y'know? :/
winning tournaments far more than the likes of etc, or even more than say and so on. I think there should definitely be gaps to separate that instead of arbitrary rules. As I mentioned previously, if we use your system, what's the difference between what you're suggesting and just doing an ordered list from first to last? Arbitrary tiering is totally useless, you don't argue a character is top tier because they're 'top 6', you argue they're top tier because their results are near the same level of those already IN the top 6 - or in other words, instead of having a top 6, we would now have a top 7. That's why these discussions are important. 
If ROB's uthrow is considered a considerable nerf then Falcon got nerfed too, his downwards angled fsmash now kills about 10% later than it did before the patch, although the other variations are still the same (downwards used to be the strongest).
Falcon has a lot of powerful options that can substitute a down-angled fsmash. ROB has nothing that could possibly take the place of uthrow.
Going as far as saying ROB "kinda sucks" is a bit much. I agree he is probably a little closer to the top of the middle tiers now, but that's still a top 20 character in a huge cast. What separates him from the Mega Man/Pacman/ (vanilla) Villager types?
Maybe I don't know Falcon well enough, but that's nowhere near the level of ROBs nerf. We're talking 20-30% later for his kills.
Yeah, it's certainly a bigger nerf. They probably did it just to make Mewtwo's uthrow seem stronger in comparison, instead of giving Mewtwo an actually powerful throw while keeping ROB the same.
Uhhhhh, he's probably not viable for tournament because you'll end up needing secondary characters for more than just a few matchups. So from a practical standpoint he does kinda suck because he's pretty worthless for anybody who wants to do well in tournaments bigger than local scale.
Nothing, and that's exactly ROB's problem. If you have nothing that sets you apart from a character like Mega Man then you won't get anywhere. Top 20 doesn't mean **** in a game where maybe the top 10 has a realistic shot at placing high at national tournaments.
I'm gonna respond first about ROB: ROB is heavy, and so can benefits from rage more than M2, olimar and most of the other kill thrower. ROB has two good projectiles and many fast move. And prepatch most ROB player used to abuse these two strenghts, to the point ROB meta looks a little like : spam projectiles, then grab, then kill. It was overall as boring as diddy or ness. With the nerf it's only a good kill option if we can't land anything else past 140%.This is more an argument against your own point. Some characters ARE indeed tournament viable and would be excluded from your tiers because there's a few characters that get in there before them. Like, it makes no sense to have DDD be a mid tier as part of the numbers and Doc as a low tier right next to him if their actual viability is about even, y'know? :/
Gaps appear more illusional in this game but only at first glance. You're still going to see these characters
And yeah, ZSS and Rosaluma do have bad MUs, but how positive and negative MUs affect your tier position is relative to the game, the rest of the cast. That doesn't mean they don't win far more than the lower tiers.
I don't see how relying on a decent kill throw is a bad thing. Two characters in this game have kill throws as their crux move, and at least 5 more have them as supplementary kill moves should the opponent live too long. Those things are legit man. (sorry though, don't mean to attack everything you're saying, just wondering how you come to this conclusion) :3
Ah, my bad. I totally forgot the down angled fsmash nerf and I didn't know his bthrow got nerfed.
More importantly imo is that if you need that throw to get the kill, youre doin something wrong. Once you start fishing youve lost, youre no longer playing the game that got your opponent into the death range and all they have to do is jab instead of shield. You can see it happen all the time with kill throws. Fishing catches you smashes, not stocks.
