Character Competitive Impressions

[Nobie]

Returning to the subject of matchup discussion... I find it weird how tier lists and matchups are seen. The ratios given are more or less defined as how often we can expect two high-level players of equal skill to win when playing as particular characters.

I find that characters like Ganondorf skew that a little. Certainly, matchup numbers are taken from both how often we see a character win against another, as well as a direct comparison of options. But Ganondorf's entire play style is predicated upon mind games and reads more so than any other character (save for high-aura Lucario). His options may for the most part be slow, but the reward on those options is insane. Playing a character like Ganondorf requires a completely different approach than playing as other characters.

Added to everything else I just said, there are different sorts of skill in Smash - the ability to create strategies on the fly, conditioning your opponents... and then you have tech skill. Some players lean more in one direction, others lean in another. So two high-level players of "equal skill" could indeed do better or worse depending upon their play style and how well the characters they play match with it.

So for me, I can't see Ganondorf's matchup ratios in the same way as other matchup ratios. In addition, I could never see Ganondorf as low tier (but not high, either). His rewards are simply too great. If the reason for Lucario's high tier placement (or rather, expected high tier placement) is the sheer reward he gets from Aura, I can at least expect Ganondorf's sheer power to keep him from low tier. I also expect his matchups to be more player-dependent than option-dependent.

IMO.

I think in general, aside from the loss of a few areas of tech skill, playing different characters in Smash Bros. 4 requires more varied skill sets than ever before, and it has partly to do with pretty good balance of character types. While the super heavyweights don't seem like top tier material at the moment, they at least have useful tools, and even among them playing Bowser is a very different experience from playing Dedede. Similarly, between Villager, Mega Man, and Duck Hunt, zoning is a very different and unique experience in each case, and the engine rewards their styles enough to make them satisfying.

 

[Antonykun]

Fixed

Pacman's rushdown and offstage game pale in comparison to Villager's

Returning to the subject of matchup discussion... I find it weird how tier lists and matchups are seen. The ratios given are more or less defined as how often we can expect two high-level players of equal skill to win when playing as particular characters.

I find that characters like Ganondorf skew that a little. Certainly, matchup numbers are taken from both how often we see a character win against another, as well as a direct comparison of options. But Ganondorf's entire play style is predicated upon mind games and reads more so than any other character (save for high-aura Lucario). His options may for the most part be slow, but the reward on those options is insane. Playing a character like Ganondorf requires a completely different approach than playing as other characters.

Added to everything else I just said, there are different sorts of skill in Smash - the ability to create strategies on the fly, conditioning your opponents... and then you have tech skill. Some players lean more in one direction, others lean in another. So two high-level players of "equal skill" could indeed do better or worse depending upon their play style and how well the characters they play match with it.

So for me, I can't see Ganondorf's matchup ratios in the same way as other matchup ratios. In addition, I could never see Ganondorf as low tier (but not high, either). His rewards are simply too great. If the reason for Lucario's high tier placement (or rather, expected high tier placement) is the sheer reward he gets from Aura, I can at least expect Ganondorf's sheer power to keep him from low tier. I also expect his matchups to be more player-dependent than option-dependent.

IMO.

That's how grapplers work. The get wrecked in theory because in theory we never account for human error and always assume the meta is "20xx". When you add human error then the grapplers big punishes make up for their slowness.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Pacman's rushdown and offstage game pale in comparison to Villager's

That's how grapplers work. The get wrecked in theory because in theory we never account for human error and always assume the meta is "20xx". When you add human error then the grapplers big punishes make up for their slowness.

You haven't touched upon the power of Nair into Nair.

Or apple into orange.

Or strawberry.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Pacman's rushdown and offstage game pale in comparison to Villager's

That's how grapplers work. The get wrecked in theory because in theory we never account for human error and always assume the meta is "20xx". When you add human error then the grapplers big punishes make up for their slowness.

You don't have to account for human error? Everything someone does is a decision and if they decide to "perfectly" space their N-air to be safe on shield, well you can technically just walk/dash backwards to make them whiff and potentially hit them with something like a pivot Ftilt, which on Ganon can be fatal.
Frame data doesn't tell the whole picture.

 

[Smog Frog]

isnt the point of reads to guess your opponents decision?

 

[HeroMystic]

Important Question: Can Diddy's U-throw > U-air be DI'd?

This is an seriously important question because ZeRo has been wrecking face with this, and Espy lost to Aerolink's Diddy with this combo being used.

 

[<Green>]

I believe it is possible at high percents, but i don't know for sure.

 

[|RK|]

You don't have to account for human error? Everything someone does is a decision and if they decide to "perfectly" space their N-air to be safe on shield, well you can technically just walk/dash backwards to make them whiff and potentially hit them with something like a pivot Ftilt, which on Ganon can be fatal.
Frame data doesn't tell the whole picture.

That's what Antonykun and I are saying.

isnt the point of reads to guess your opponents decision?

Well, make an educated guess, or predict their decision... but yes.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

This could be the new metagame.. footstool combos.

Ganon benefits from this a lot, especially after the reduced Dair lag after the patch 1.04:

https://twitter.com/ganon_gungnir/status/566699631254306816
https://vine.co/v/OF2BAlzLmPT
https://vine.co/v/OFp1w9EFE6w

 

[Radical Larry]

Important Question: Can Diddy's U-throw > U-air be DI'd?

This is an seriously important question because ZeRo has been wrecking face with this, and Espy lost to Aerolink's Diddy with this combo being used.

It is possible for two things; one, Diddy has to have at least 50% damage, and two, you do need higher damage so you can DI out of it. Although you can simply either input an attack to mix up with Diddy or just air dodge if you can get it all down right.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Does any of the mods or anyone at all know if a plan for a BR is in the works for this game yet? I really think it's time it was created, it's time we started having an official body to back projects, MU charts and tier lists. How we actually make those charts and lists can be different from before if we want to change it but I think the BR itself should be looked into now.

The "BR" should be as transparent as possible this time, imo.

Smooth Criminal

 

[FlareHabanero]

Important Question: Can Diddy's U-throw > U-air be DI'd?

This is an seriously important question because ZeRo has been wrecking face with this, and Espy lost to Aerolink's Diddy with this combo being used.

Yes you can DI it.

Of course a savvy Diddy player can take advantage of that too.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Important Question: Can Diddy's U-throw > U-air be DI'd?

This is an seriously important question because ZeRo has been wrecking face with this, and Espy lost to Aerolink's Diddy with this combo being used.

There is a reason Leffn said it was broken. More damage + less vulnerable to DI.

 

[Luco]

The "BR" should be transparent as possible this time, imo.

Smooth Criminal

100% agreed. Who makes these things by the way? Could a Brawl/Melee/64 BRoomer explain?

 

[Ultinarok]

Shulk is my most played character but I just really don't see myself ever picking him to main. You spend a huge amount of time fiddling with Monados but you'll still suffer dumb deaths and still will struggle to kill at times, which is what the Monados are supposed to be all about. Outside of Jump and Shield he actually dies pretty early, and his Up-B is bad (though not terrible). I think what really cinches it for me is the fact that "naked" outside of a Monado, he's very bad. I sort of wish that his neutral was worth fighting in and that Monados were like a targeted strike, but he's not worth playing unless he's "in character." Simply running away is sometimes preferable to fighting without a Monado. He's a blast to play and I could see myself playing him for fun forever, but as my get-serious-really-want-to-win character? I don't think so.

He is by no means bad without Monado modes. But he will be worse if you don't utilize them. If Shulk didn't have them, he'd probably be mid tier. But like Rosalina without Luma, he can manage outside of Monado modes. Monado modes are for his approaches, set-ups, evading combos, dealing damage, etc. but once all is said and done, he has NO problems KOing. Quite contrary, he can KO with most of his attacks easily. His damage dealing is solid outside of Buster, his aerial mobility is decent even without jump, he kills well without Smash, and his phenomenal range always persists. There may be match-ups where he practically never really NEEDS to use Monado Arts at all to win. They just help.

Basically, its actually better to start a game with no Monado Mode. Changing immediately makes you predictable, especially if you favor one mode. Its better to watch your opponent's playstyle and determine what mode will help you best against them. If they're camping, you need Speed. If they constantly approach in a short hop or keep airborne, you should use Jump. And once an opening arrives, Buster will put on the hurt quickly. You can then go for the kill (with Smash if you're feeling bold) on a good read. If your damage gets high enough and your opponent can't abuse the weight with throws, Shield will give your stock more endurance and help you hit high levels of rage, making Shulk stupidly powerful.

Nonetheless, you don't always need the Arts. Good use of vision, understanding his follow-ups, abusing nair, making good reads and knowing Shulk's spacing can win you games without switching. The Arts are just icing on the cake and make him a more technical character.

 

[meleebrawler]

He is by no means bad without Monado modes. But he will be worse if you don't utilize them. If Shulk didn't have them, he'd probably be mid tier. But like Rosalina without Luma, he can manage outside of Monado modes. Monado modes are for his approaches, set-ups, evading combos, dealing damage, etc. but once all is said and done, he has NO problems KOing. Quite contrary, he can KO with most of his attacks easily. His damage dealing is solid outside of Buster, his aerial mobility is decent even without jump, he kills well without Smash, and his phenomenal range always persists. There may be match-ups where he practically never really NEEDS to use Monado Arts at all to win. They just help.

Basically, its actually better to start a game with no Monado Mode. Changing immediately makes you predictable, especially if you favor one mode. Its better to watch your opponent's playstyle and determine what mode will help you best against them. If they're camping, you need Speed. If they constantly approach in a short hop or keep airborne, you should use Jump. And once an opening arrives, Buster will put on the hurt quickly. You can then go for the kill (with Smash if you're feeling bold) on a good read. If your damage gets high enough and your opponent can't abuse the weight with throws, Shield will give your stock more endurance and help you hit high levels of rage, making Shulk stupidly powerful.

Nonetheless, you don't always need the Arts. Good use of vision, understanding his follow-ups, abusing nair, making good reads and knowing Shulk's spacing can win you games without switching. The Arts are just icing on the cake and make him a more technical character.

His top air speed isn't bad, but he has what you'll probably notice is the worst air inertia
in the game, once he starts going in a direction in the air it'll take him quite some time
to slow down or change direction. He basically cannot weave at all.

 

[SapphSabre777]

Even if you are literally on top of one another (as in, in the same room, but using Internet connection), a minimum of 3-4 frames of input lag will still exist.

WiFi = lag, regardless of how good the connection is. You can't see the lag, but oh boy you can definitely feel it, especially if you're used to quick inputs ( I cry everytime)

Agreed. This is why I've been hunting for a LAN adapter....although lag is imminent. And yes, feeling the lag on those moments that you can punish is painful. Why oh why?

Eh, at least it is better than Brawl's, AKA Flipnote Studio: Smash Edition. But I must ask, is there a difference in the amount of consistency and lag between wired and wireless?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

100% agreed. Who makes these things by the way? Could a Brawl/Melee/64 BRoomer explain?

Ask @ Shaya , @#HBC | Bunzy, @Espy Rose, or hell, anybody that was a BR member for any game.

Have fun with five different answers for one question, because that's what it'll come down to. I really want to insert something about previous BRs (Melee and Brawl, notably) generally being privatized circlejerks but that might be mean-spirited of me.

Or generous, one of the two.

Either way, the concept of a thinktank of our game's brightest is cool and all...if it's handled properly.

Smooth Criminal

 

[HeroMystic]

There is a reason Leffn said it was broken. More damage + less vulnerable to DI.

If that's the case then why is only ZeRo and very few players doing it? Mixing up D-Throw and U-Throw makes DI a nightmare.

 

[A2ZOMG]

If that's the case then why is only ZeRo and very few players doing it? Mixing up D-Throw and U-Throw makes DI a nightmare.

Good question tbh. I am guessing people just are afraid of using U-throw which sends people a bit higher, though I believe if you keep it somewhat stale, it KO confirms consistently like Dthrow except DIing away does nothing.

 

[Neoleo21]

Good question tbh. I am guessing people just are afraid of using U-throw which sends people a bit higher, though I believe if you keep it somewhat stale, it KO confirms consistently like Dthrow except DIing away does nothing.

What were they thinking when they made this character, probably the biggest blemish on the entire game.

 

[A2ZOMG]

What were they thinking when they made this character, probably the biggest blemish on the entire game.

There's nothing really wrong with Diddy tbh. Outside of him having a lot of things that are slightly too good.

As most people have explained earlier, a small nerf to Uair is the main thing to be considered. After that most of the cast wants QoL changes in some shape or form.

 

[Nu~]

Hmm...not it's clear. It's just so hard to use Mega man on wi-fi. You have to have twice the amount of precision...
Welp, maybe I should pick him back up again

(Yeah, I put too much work into him to just drop him lol)

 

[Deathcarter]

His top air speed isn't bad, but he has what you'll probably notice is the worst air inertia
in the game, once he starts going in a direction in the air it'll take him quite some time
to slow down or change direction. He basically cannot weave at all.

Dear God that is the thing I absolutely hate most about Shulk. Shulk in the air feels almost exactly how he does in Xenoblade......this is a bad thing as Xenoblade has **** jumping mechanics.

 

[NairWizard]

100% agreed. Who makes these things by the way? Could a Brawl/Melee/64 BRoomer explain?

BackRoom wouldn't be a bad idea as long as decisions and important talking points are publicized. The worst thing you can do to discussion is hide it from public dissection. Insular discussions lead to insular thinking.

There's nothing really wrong with Diddy tbh. Outside of him having a lot of things that are slightly too good.

As most people have explained earlier, a small nerf to Uair is the main thing to be considered. After that most of the cast wants QoL changes in some shape or form.

u-air is blatantly too good. Not only does it deal consistent aerial damage through juggling, it also kills, hits close enough to the ground to be used out of a short hop, follows from Diddy's throws, and is a frame-3 escape option that is better than Diddy's n-air. u-air is the reason that Diddy is too good in disadvantage, not Monkey Flip.

I don't mind having Top Tiers in games, but they shouldn't be Top Tier because of one move, unless the move requires much creativity to use properly. Sheik with all of her insane frame data would not be Top Tier without needles, a practically invisible stage-length projectile that forces others to approach, can be held for infinite mindgames, does sizable damage fully charged, and can be used to get KOs and edgeguards in conjunction with Bouncing Fish. Needles are the reason that many matchups are in her favor. No single other factor (like her f-air, her Bouncing Fish, her mobility, etc.) is quite as dominant.

Diddy's up-air is the same thing.


Sonic's Spindash and Pikachu's Quick Attack are similar in theory but require more creativity than needles or up-air, so they get by a little better (frankly, I still don't think that they should exist; single-move gameplay can get stale/repetitive, though QA can be fun to watch with the cancels).

 

[FimPhym]

The fact that diddy is our biggest worry in a 50 character game is a small miracle. My plan was to enjoy the time where the truly insane stuff hadn't been discovered and play until the strats that invalidate 80-90% of the cast showed up. Now it looks like the biggest struggle is some of the characters with good frame data get rewards above what they deserve? Okay, whatever, I can deal with that.

Anyone that has played other fighters or worse yet tried to balance an asymmetric game probably knows 50 characters being well balanced - or even just not having a few utterly unfair characters - is beyond any reasonable demand. The hope is that you get as lucky as mvc2 and have a bunch of nonsense characters that still enjoy a fun game together (see also: melee, kinda!)

I'm excited to see people optimising diddy with this u throw stuff. Some were saying zero basically optimised diddy around apex or something? I laughed out loud at that, no way anyone is done exploring their characters yet. Keep pushing!

 

[NairWizard]

Oh, also, re: Ganondorf. I like the character in high-level in-person matches, but can't stand him on WiFi (I would rather face Diddy on WiFi than Ganondorf; much easier).

WiFi Ganondorf is two or three tiers above where he would otherwise be. Input lag means that you can't react to stuff and spotdodge on reaction, teching Flame Chokes consistently is difficult (but doable), the slightest mistake costs you your stock... bleh. On the flipside, the lag does mean that Ganondorf has a rougher time dealing with projectiles, but it's a nice trade to make when your opponent is also missing followups half the time by 1 or 2 frames.

It's interesting that most of the other heavies don't have this issue on WiFi. Those MUs are not nearly as reaction-dependent as the Ganon MU. Ike in Brawl used to be, but no longer is. I suppose it's just the specific way in which you have to fight Ganon.

 

[Antonykun]

Edited cuz Shaya is right :/

 

[Metalex]

This could be the new metagame.. footstool combos.

Ganon benefits from this a lot, especially after the reduced Dair lag after the patch 1.04:

https://twitter.com/ganon_gungnir/status/566699631254306816
https://vine.co/v/OF2BAlzLmPT
https://vine.co/v/OFp1w9EFE6w

Wow that's some pretty cool stuff! Footstools are fairly easy to pull off in this game compared to Brawl so i think there's alot of room for exploration with it.

 

[warionumbah2]

What do you guys think of Mii Brawler?

Played one that had the Tatsumaki Senpu whatever as his Up B, some punch that sends him straight to the ground, bouncing fish Mii edition and shotput as his neutral B.

I used MK with his default moveset but got rid of default drill for high speed drill, his nair pales in comparison to the Mario bros so he gets juggled easily by uairs, MK OOS options are better than Mii Brawlers and has superior mobility.

I played the short Mii by the way.

Edit: no reply? Guess no one knows much about miis after all. My b.

 

[Yokoblue]

We will probably see a lot of Bowser Jr. coming out with Tweek gameplay...
He does huge combos with B.Jr and beat numerous top players : Mr. E, DkWill to name a few. Had a real close set with Vinnie as well.

 

[HeroMystic]

Tweek has always been the pioneer for Bowser Jr.. I have one player in my city that uses him but he's not at Tweek's level. B.Jr is one of those characters that require an upkeep of his tempo. If it's broken it's hard for him to get it back.

 

[ZeldaMaster]

Based off of Marth's usage so far, how do you guys think marth will progress in the meta?

 

[Neoleo21]

Based off of Marth's usage so far, how do you guys think marth will progress in the meta?

Depends if we're calling customs or not, with dashing assault he'll be able to handle himself better alongside somewhat reliable Crescent slash kills off F throw and Fair occasionally. His reward is generally average outside tipper but he'll get somewhat better as marth players refine their play with the new options.

 

[Funkermonster]

Tournament I went to yesterday, there sure were a lot of s yesterday, at least 4 or 5. I've also seen quite some amount of footage of him online as well. Is it me, or he is becoming a more popular now?

 

[PND]

Tournament I went to yesterday, there sure were a lot of s yesterday, at least 4 or 5. I've also seen quite some amount of footage of him online as well. Is it me, or he is becoming a more popular now?

HolyNightmare won Battle Royale 8 in Ottawa last night with ROB.

Top 8 had one ROB, one Diddy, a Shulk/Olimar, 2 Megaman players, a Sonic, a Luigi, and a Villager (with a pear tree!)

'Dat diversity.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Based off of Marth's usage so far, how do you guys think marth will progress in the meta?

People tend to ask stuff like this when they already have an opinion and they want to be validated.

So instead I will ask you a question. Based on what YOU have seen, how do you feel about Marth?

 

[Vincent21]

I've been getting bodied recently. Like my play has seen a downturn and yesterday was a particularly bad day for me. Normally this would be irrelevant to tier discussion, but I realized a very tangible, character-associated reason I was getting bodied.

The fight against linearity.

Typically you want to more-or-less reinvent yourself between matches, games, or even stocks. You apply what your character is good at, and use their good moves, but you change the rhythm with which you do so. Why? So your opponent doesn't have the opportunity to hard-read you constantly and get better and better returns and rewards on exchanges.

A lot of even the good characters in this game struggle with effectively being able to do this. Obviously though since I'm expressing something I learned through experience, I'm going to start with my usual buddy

The ability to control space by just walking forward and alternating ftilt, dtilt, your three variant fsmashes, and punishing rolls with utilt/dsmash along the way is insanely powerful. It gives Mac the best neutral ground game. Add in Grounding Blow and it gives him a strong neutral period. But the problem is you don't have a lot of room to escape linearity without getting a little sloppy. How do you shield pressure? ftilt/dtilt and low-angled fsmash for absurd shield damage. Stuff is so good that if you can get someone with at least three different tags and that body blow fsmash you'll break their shield flat out. This kind of shield pressure he's capable of is amazing because it gets him around the problem of people trying to escape his pressure by overusing their shield just because he has a subpar grab they can punish.

But how do you really vary this? Honestly you lack a good mix-up on these. I mean you can mix up your approach alot by conditioning people to shield and then getting behind them, or throwing a c-stick/nub fsmash for a purposeful whiff to bait a punish attempt, and then either stuff it with a 1-frame jab (example: Falcon's Dash Grab) or a ftilt/dtilt (80% of OoS attempts from the opponent at that distance), but at the end of the day you're still using like the same 3 moves for all of your pressure, and can OCCASIONALLY get a grab in there if your shield conditioning was really solid.

You can really only escape linearity by conditioning your opponent to press buttons. And who presses buttons against armored gloves that you're not already beating handily to begin with? I'm finding ways the more I play, and I'm pretty sure this comes down to a player issue merely made tricky, never impossible, by characters, but my linearity issue makes me wonder if being jack of all/most trades is better than master of one, or even some.

This is a problem that I think really kind of hurts a loooot of characters and isn't talked about. I'd argue it hurts:


just off the top of my head. There are most certainly more. I'm hesitant to make a case for Diddy because between sideB, bananas, fair, SH uair, dash grab, and DA he's got ALLLL the tools to get around this, but the name comes to mind because even in the play of really high level Diddy you see them having streamlined down their like a favorite three of grab/fair/uair and failing to innovate much because of the low risk and high reward coming from doing so. It's a weakness just waiting to be exploited.

 

[Emblem Lord]

People think it hurts CF but thats because no CF player is doing the **** he is capable of. Same thing with Diddy.

Is it Diddys fault that his players weak minded and don't use all his tools?

Nah. Diddy is a beast. WE as players just suck gorilla nuts and need to start using all his options.

 

[NairWizard]

I've been getting bodied recently. Like my play has seen a downturn and yesterday was a particularly bad day for me. Normally this would be irrelevant to tier discussion, but I realized a very tangible, character-associated reason I was getting bodied.

The fight against linearity.

Typically you want to more-or-less reinvent yourself between matches, games, or even stocks. You apply what your character is good at, and use their good moves, but you change the rhythm with which you do so. Why? So your opponent doesn't have the opportunity to hard-read you constantly and get better and better returns and rewards on exchanges.

A lot of even the good characters in this game struggle with effectively being able to do this. Obviously though since I'm expressing something I learned through experience, I'm going to start with my usual buddy

The ability to control space by just walking forward and alternating ftilt, dtilt, your three variant fsmashes, and punishing rolls with utilt/dsmash along the way is insanely powerful. It gives Mac the best neutral ground game. Add in Grounding Blow and it gives him a strong neutral period. But the problem is you don't have a lot of room to escape linearity without getting a little sloppy. How do you shield pressure? ftilt/dtilt and low-angled fsmash for absurd shield damage. Stuff is so good that if you can get someone with at least three different tags and that body blow fsmash you'll break their shield flat out. This kind of shield pressure he's capable of is amazing because it gets him around the problem of people trying to escape his pressure by overusing their shield just because he has a subpar grab they can punish.

But how do you really vary this? Honestly you lack a good mix-up on these. I mean you can mix up your approach alot by conditioning people to shield and then getting behind them, or throwing a c-stick/nub fsmash for a purposeful whiff to bait a punish attempt, and then either stuff it with a 1-frame jab (example: Falcon's Dash Grab) or a ftilt/dtilt (80% of OoS attempts from the opponent at that distance), but at the end of the day you're still using like the same 3 moves for all of your pressure, and can OCCASIONALLY get a grab in there if your shield conditioning was really solid.

You can really only escape linearity by conditioning your opponent to press buttons. And who presses buttons against armored gloves that you're not already beating handily to begin with? I'm finding ways the more I play, and I'm pretty sure this comes down to a player issue merely made tricky, never impossible, by characters, but my linearity issue makes me wonder if being jack of all/most trades is better than master of one, or even some.

This is a problem that I think really kind of hurts a loooot of characters and isn't talked about. I'd argue it hurts:


just off the top of my head. There are most certainly more. I'm hesitant to make a case for Diddy because between sideB, bananas, fair, SH uair, dash grab, and DA he's got ALLLL the tools to get around this, but the name comes to mind because even in the play of really high level Diddy you see them having streamlined down their like a favorite three of grab/fair/uair and failing to innovate much because of the low risk and high reward coming from doing so. It's a weakness just waiting to be exploited.

I tell every single Mac player I see. Learn your options. Master perfect pivoting and tilts/smashes out of perfect pivots. Use pivot grabs. Foxtrot/dash dance.

Lacking a short hop game does not make you linear. It just means that you need to master your ground tech and incorporate it into your game.