Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Doc doesn't have the superior Down-B. To be frank, it's just an entirely different function altogether.
I agree that it's different, but I've never seen it be effective like I have Docs, just disruptive, although that may just be personal.
U-air wants a word with you
I actually almost typed "and uair" into my post.
DDD really seems weak to me, just cause his hits are so slow, I can sadly see him in a bot 5. Falco, Samus, and especially WFT shout potential to me, so I leave them out. MikeKirby has proven some, so he clearly can do work. To me that leaves Bowser as bot 5 along with, and I feel bad saying it,but with such polarizing MUs, I don't know how he can be higher, LM. Poor kid.It's kind of hard to tell for the bottom 5 because everyone can be played effectively. I guess the best we can do atm is make a list of candidates. Maybe something like this?
Idk because none of these guys actually shout bottom 5 to me except maybe Falco, DDD, Zelda, Swordfighter and Kirby (I guess that's bottom 5 right there). I actually feel bad putting Ganondorf, Doc and WFT there knowing what kind of damage they're capable of. And this is without customs. With them, I wouldn't even consider putting Kirby, Doc, Ganondorf and WFT in bottom 5.
Woah woah, slow down there.It's kind of hard to tell for the bottom 5 because everyone can be played effectively. I guess the best we can do atm is make a list of candidates. Maybe something like this?
Idk because none of these guys actually shout bottom 5 to me except maybe Falco, DDD, Zelda, Swordfighter and Kirby (I guess that's bottom 5 right there). I actually feel bad putting Ganondorf, Doc and WFT there knowing what kind of damage they're capable of. And this is without customs. With them, I wouldn't even consider putting Kirby, Doc, Ganondorf and WFT in bottom 5.
into bottom five.
If you hold down the button during QA, you can connect both QA better. So you only need to angle it.
Darn you.And nope, U-smash is not strong enough
It is going to be controversial, but so is any top 15, doesn't mean we shouldn't. DDD I feel everyone know can have his moments, but much like LM, fails too much where it's needed as far as MUs go.
fixed
Dedede's MU spread is something I'd be interested in exploring. Because I see it as being pretty bad.
Win tourneys may be a bit much but yes, I definitely believe any character can win based on skill and knowledge. Bottom 5 I think becomes most unfavorable match ups, but doesn't mean they don't have a lot of good ones too.
FLUDD has always been misunderstood, so it doesn't surprise me. While Tornado is legitimately amazing for what it does, FLUDD is strong in it's own right.
(Ordered from Best of the Worst to Worst of the Worst). I'm only confident in saying these characters are on the lower end of the spectrum, and I only have personal experience with Samus.
Oh yeah, I'm always up for these discussions
Don't get me wrong, I'm a firm believer in that too! I love seeing people take a "low-tier" character and turn it into something amazing.
Average by definition isn't bottom 5.
Not to say that Lucina is garbage because she isn't (I can't say she's bad, she's just below average I suppose, and Marth is slightly above average) but the main difference is that Marth already has to scrape for rewards and he really relies on frame traps and techs to get control via tippers and abuse the fact that you kill stupidly early. Lucina has to do the same thing except she gets less reward, doesn't kill as early, AND she has worse shieldstun to deal with. Marth gets SIGNIFICANTLY more bang for his buck when he makes a commitment, and albeit his rewards are average when you compare it to someone like Diddy, his rewards for traps and waiting for opportunities is much better when you have tippers.
Slightly below average? This game just feels so balanced. It feels wrong to say anyone is "garbage"
Yes, but I can't see those 3 things distancing her that much from Marth in many matchups. For instance, the difference between Lucina and Marth in the Mega Man matchup is significant in that Lucina does not have tippers to kill with on ftilt/bair (fsmash too, but ftilt/bair are more important in that MU in my experience). However, their gameplan is still the same and the gameplan is still effective.
There is 51 characters. If you are in the bottom 5 you are below average.
The girls MU against the cast is worse than Marth. If her MU is mostly negative then i see no reason as to why Marth needs to be in the same bracket.
Not too much new in this department, except for the fact that our
MU is very difficult and people are finally realising it (in reality it's probably pretty close to even but it's a pretty big deal considering Megaman isn't considered too wildly amazing normally). 
W/O customs,
are for sure the bottom five, with some other contenders being. Out of the entire cast I feel andare tied for the worst character in the game, but they really aren't that much worse than the rest of the cast.
Can you add that Dair does kill in your KO Percentage Table?
Gonna sound like every "low-tier" main ever here, but I don't think Palutena is that bad. I mean yeah, she's tall, light, her tilts/smash attacks are slow, she struggles to keep people off her and killing can be challenging, but I feel she has enough going for her to not be bottom 5. Good mobility, incredible jab that you can do a lot of things out of (Jab>Instant Dash Attack, Jab>Grab, even Jab>Smash Attack at really high %s), powerful and unbeatable B-air/Dash Attack, etc...FLUDD has always been misunderstood, so it doesn't surprise me. While Tornado is legitimately amazing for what it does, FLUDD is strong in it's own right.
To be frank, I can't list a confident bottom 5, but if I had to, it would be:
The thing about D-air is that it's "kills" aren't static like other kill moves. You will never kill Villager with D-air.
Then we should do the same for x zoning character when they are at (optimal length away from their opponent here). And how about close range based characters when they're close instead of far away?
Oh, but I can. If I use it on Stage, the last hit/shockwave does Kill. Come on, man, you used to use Sword Fighter. You should know this.
ehhhhh yes and no people will get better because the For Glory meta (roll sniping/anti spam) will probably get better but not because of the actual meta.
If you honestly think Little Mac is worse than Mii Swordfighter, customless Brawler, Palutena, Kirby, and D3, I don't know what to say. I don't mean MUs, I mean actually how good they are.W/O customs,
Doubles is a very different animal from singles. It's best to just keep the two separate. Those good in singles are naturally good in doubles, but there are certain attributes are more emphasized in doubles that make it a different game. For instance, Zelda has a niche in doubles because Farore's Wind keeps both opponents on guard at all times, Din's can actually be useful, and team setups into lightning kicks are deadly. And Zelda doesn't even abuse the team attack on system of doubles.
What's the difference?
My bad when I think "Killing with D-air" I think kickbutt gimp and forget about the shock wave.
Well for starters, those other characters you mention don't die in like three seconds as soon as "airgame" is mentioned.
Ah i get it, the good players will demoralize the noobs thus wiping them out of existence only leaving the good players online. I can roll with that.
Those characters also don't have me saying, "I have to respect their strong points or I'm going to die in 20 seconds."
It is cool bro. Swordfighter can be forgettable. There is only so many of us. I still do not know how you guys land the BA gimp consistently. It is easy with Kirby and Bowser Jr. (to an extent). Perhaps, I need to stop FF when using it.
