Character Competitive Impressions

[Road Death Wheel]

Wait peach and Kirby perform just about the same in tournaments and in match ups?

no range is a big deal and kirby dose not have much of it.

 

[Locke 06]

Pikachu cant corner camp or ledge play nearly as well when around a dk who knows his options.
the mu is realistically 40:60
nothing crazy.
dk has a super armor punish in up b scaring normal ledge get up being near leadges is a bad siruation due to dks down b sheild breaking potential. (it actually broke his shield one game.)
forcing Pikachu to take unnessesary damage as trade for no shield break. making dk in advantage when Pikachu is just at low shield. just cause you litterally taken away the single most important tool in smash 4 and turning it into a defecit.
it was magical.

So, I just changed something in your post to prove a point. See if you can find it and if you understand why I love your overreaction to a single tournament set.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

So, I just changed something in your post to prove a point. See if you can find it and if you understand why I love your overreaction to a single tournament set.

shhhhhh the hype was real
aedit also dk has been taking out diddys all tournament.

 

[Locke 06]

Then let's simmer down and analyze what happened.

DK won because DK has strengths that Will put to good use.

Questions?

 

[TTTTTsd]

Again, all these people switching to Diddy are gonna get bopped by people who play their characters for longer.

Also proof that a lot of the cast in this game is solid.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I love how Falco's being consistently placed as low tier and treated as if he doesn't exist as anything, but an icon...

Seriously, Falco's at least a mid tier.

Then go out of your way to prove Falco's worth instead of complaining.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Then let's simmer down and analyze what happened.

DK won because DK has strengths that Will put to good use.

Questions?

ok im cooled t was just so hype lol.
but overall down b is the **** right now.

 

[NairWizard]

I'm pretty sure that DK vs. Diddy is in Diddy's favor (at least without customs). That big frame matters a lot, and Diddy has the clear advantage in neutral with banana + peanuts. Anyone have a link to the set m2k lost?

I personally am abandoning the tier list discussion because I'm pretty sure we've achieved just about nothing outside of giving me a headache in the past few pages

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I'm pretty sure that DK vs. Diddy is in Diddy's favor (at least without customs). That big frame matters a lot, and Diddy has the clear advantage in neutral with banana + peanuts. Anyone have a link to the set m2k lost?

I personally am abandoning the tier list discussion because I'm pretty sure we've achieved just about nothing outside of giving me a headache in the past few pages

well te set just happend on stream but you can catch the streams last few matches from smash boards from page top streams evengamingmatchup.

 

[Locke 06]

Again, all these people switching to Diddy are gonna get bopped by people who play their characters for longer.

Also proof that a lot of the cast in this game is solid.

Also, people who play their characters should know the top tier matchups.

How many Diddy players legitimately know the Bowser Jr matchup? Bowser Jr is a new character with a (very slowly) developing meta with low publicity & people think of him as not very good.

However, I bet you competitive Bowser Jr's know the Diddy matchup. If a Bowser Jr beats Diddy 5/5 times in a tournament, does that mean he's a hard counter?

This is why taking tournament results at this stage of the game at face value needs to be accompanied by a spoonful of salt. There are a lot of changes that top players aren't used to including completely new characters. When you see someone get gimped while trying to edge guard Pacman, and then get scared to go and edge guard him for the rest of the set, it should be apparent that they do not have the matchup experience.

It is all we have besides theorycrafting and personal experience, but just some food for thought.

About DK - his shield breaking aspect of his game is what drew me to the character (he's my secondary). It's very different and it makes him an extreme momentum character.

 

[Peaches & Cake]

What do you guys think about peach?

 

[Road Death Wheel]

mario vs dk grand finals this is litterally 1980

 

[NairWizard]

Turned out be to DK vs. Shulk more than DK vs. Mario. Was quite entertaining, though. Shulk's Counter really is too good (sometimes). DK is looking pretty viable, but again, matchup familiarity is probably a thing here too as @ Locke 06 correctly noted.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Turned out be to DK vs. Shulk more than DK vs. Mario. Was quite entertaining, though. Shulk's Counter really is too good (sometimes). DK is looking pretty viable, but again, matchup familiarity is probably a thing here too as @ Locke 06 correctly noted.

true true. but yeah dk so far has the most threating shield pressure in the game.
cuz u know he can break it.
edit* also on further note allys mario deffinitly makes him look better.
still bummed i was rooting for will since i yesterday. he played his haert out.

on top of single handedly driving dk's meta forrward.

 

[Peaches & Cake]

Top
A:
High
B:
B+:
Mid
C:
D:
Low
E:

Here's my attempt of a tier list

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Top
A:
High
B:
B+:
Mid
C:
D:
Low
E:

Here's my attempt of a tier list

please dont.

 

[Peaches & Cake]

Ok sorry, anyways Im pretty sure peach isn't F tier like maybe 1.04 nerfed her but she's at least high midtier

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Ok sorry, anyways Im pretty sure peach isn't F tier like maybe 1.04 nerfed her but she's at least high midtier

i agree peach is pretty awsome though.

 

[Peaches & Cake]

Honestly zeldas nerfed. Although Nairo has an amazing zelda she's nerfed. Almost all her regular moves R nerfed other than Farore's wind. Dins fire, Usmash, dsmash, uair, nair, fair, bair, may I continue?

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Honestly zeldas nerfed. Although Nairo has an amazing zelda she's nerfed. Almost all her regular moves R nerfed other than Farore's wind. Dins fire, Usmash, dsmash, uair, nair, fair, bair, may I continue?

zelda has issues but she sure as heck has not been nerfed. down tilt hitting through the stage anyone?

 

[Nabbitnator]

zelda has issues but she sure as heck has not been nerfed. down tilt hitting through the stage anyone?

that is some crazy stuff... she can do that?

 

[Peaches & Cake]

zelda has issues but she sure as heck has not been nerfed. down tilt hitting through the stage anyone?

Yeah but Farore's wind and dtilt are the only buffed
The zelda boards social thread title is "zelda is basically toilet paper in smash 4" the people that discover more about her and main her.

She was already one of the worst in brawl and they nerfed her... Let that sink in

 

[Road Death Wheel]

that is some crazy stuff... she can do that?

lol gimped rosalina on battle field cuz of it.

@ Peaches & Cake
the zelda fourm page is not going to be prouctive if they are just complaining. narios great with zelda cuz he pushed that character. and has labbing her out. if they are just moaning, i would not expect any usefull info there.

 

[Peaches & Cake]

According to the zelda mains she's bottom tier apperently

 

[Road Death Wheel]

According to the zelda mains she's bottom tier apperently

what i havent heard nairo say such a thing?

 

[Peaches & Cake]

Let me tell u why she's nerfed
- utilts kb and damage is greatly nerfed.
- nair does less damage than in brawl
- uairs range got nerfed
- usmashs range got nerfed
- dins fires distance got nerfed
- bair and fair have more ending lag


She still cant approuch which is one of her big issues.

Idk if the zelda boards R reliable but they think she's bottom tier

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Let me tell u why she's nerfed
- utilts kb and damage is greatly nerfed.
- nair does less damage than in brawl
- uairs range got nerfed
- usmashs range got nerfed
- dins fires distance got nerfed
- bair and fair have more ending lag


She still can approuch which is one of her big issues

sorry ur reasoning is not sound because u dont take in the changed properties of said moves.
up tilt is magical by the way comboig into its self. and up smash has a suction effect like most multi hit moves.
sweet spot bair and fair kill much more reliably. and nair combos in from down throw.

besides i kinda have a hard time taking u seriously if you think falco is the worst in the game.

 

[Pyr]

Yeah but Farore's wind and dtilt are the only buffed
The zelda boards social thread title is "zelda is basically toilet paper in smash 4" the people that discover more about her and main her.

She was already one of the worst in brawl and they nerfed her... Let that sink in

Well, she has her Up-B early kill shenanigans, so... I don't think she's that bad. Hilarious, but not bad.

Didn't someone in the Zelda thread say that the title was a joke or a mistake at some point?

 

[Ffamran]

Then go out of your way to prove Falco's worth instead of complaining.

Note to self: Become the very best Falco player, like no one ever was.

Edit: I will also need a Wii U and another controller since I don't want to wreck my 3DS or the Wii U gamepad.

 

[Thinkaman]

Zelda could have been nerfed a million ways from Sunday, and the global changes to air dodge landing lag and ledge mechanics would still give her better matchups than Brawl.

 

[Peaches & Cake]

Idk if it's me or I've just never faced a good falco. I feel that he's a worst little Mac with a unreliable projectile. The lag on his laser is just too much and his air mobility and lag on his aerials make them almost unusable. His ground game doesn't redeem it imo. Sword fighter is the worst but I think he's a close second.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Idk if it's me or I've just never faced a good falco. I feel that he's a worst little Mac with a unreliable projectile. The lag on his laser is just too much and his air mobility and lag on his aerials make them almost unusable. His airgame doesn't redeem it imo. Sword fighter is the worst but I think he's a close second.

its probably the formar. falcos range and close up pressure is one of the best in game.
edit* i mean the latter

 

[Peaches & Cake]

Yeah and that's it. He might not be the worst but he's definitely low or bottom tier.

 

[Thinkaman]

Idk if it's me or I've just never faced a good falco. I feel that he's a worst little Mac

Wow, that statement went somewhere really unexpected.

I'm at a loss for what Falco and Little Mac have in common besides "really good jabs".

Edit--
More productive advice:
New Falco is a really bad Old Falco, but a pretty good New Falco.

Reflector is way better, specifically Void Reflector. Bair is really solid. Dair isn't actually bad. His recovery is now great.

 

[Peaches & Cake]

Oh @ Road Death Wheel i just saw ur edit about the zelda threads. One sad thing is that I used to main her and thanks to them I stopped. I just couldn't with them since all they were saying was "zelda is trash" "bottom tier princess" "wow she is bad" they just made me not want to main her

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Yeah and that's it. He might not be the worst but he's definitely low or bottom tier.

lol definitly not

 

[Peaches & Cake]

His air mobility and lag on his aerials R just bad. Like the one seperation from him and little Mac imo is that he has a better recovery but little Mac has a better ground game

 

[Thinkaman]

His air mobility and lag on his aerials R just bad. Like the one seperatoom from him and little Mac imo is that he has a better recovery but little Mac has a better ground game

Every character has a better recovery than Little Mac!

Every character has a worse ground game than Little Mac!

Why are we comparing these two characters???

 

[Road Death Wheel]

His air mobility and lag on his aerials R just bad. Like the one seperatoom from him and little Mac imo is that he has a better recovery but little Mac has a better ground game

last time i reacall bair uair and nair all have very little lag.
falco one of the few characters that can chase vertically and kill of the top. that really good.
bair kills at 90-100 and is extreamly fast. fair is goddly at gimping and up air is strong at juggling.
let me tell u this. if ur playing falco like previous iterations ur going to hate him. but if you can get around that and put in the work you will see the rewards he yeilds. plus all his tilts are awsome. down throw dash attack up tilt nair. is a staple and strong combo.

 

[Peaches & Cake]

It's probably just the lack of me is playing some GOOD Falcos