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Jams.
As much as I cringe seeing how there's only one noteworthy Link and Ganondorf, I'm hoping that one of them makes it to an unexpected great result. I only wish that the Link player can just study and try his best against these people.
thank you very much for the compliment friend <3
Right now we only have our obsvervations to go by, nothing concrete.
I didn't forget it exists. Why you trying to undermine my point so hard fam? smhI guess I shouldn't be surprised people forget this guy's ftilt exists...(). Not to mention the Link's two-hit fsmash.
Her fair is a unique aerial at least.
Mind explaining why? The boo'ing I mean.
And am I going to be the only one who'll boo ZeRo and M2K?
Did I hear Mewtwo player? Mind helping me with some match ups? I'm trying to explore Link vs Mewtwo so I don't get left behind.
That doesn't answer my question. Are you jealous of them or something? Maybe I'm dumb but I'm lost lol.
I wouldn't say earth doesn't push pits meta as much as dkwill does with DK. This is the same man who double eliminated Ranai recently. He also has wins over 9B, rain, nietono, and some others I'm probably missing out on since I don't really follow the Japanese scene closely. The problem with pit is that he lacks a single good main in the US except for Nairo who rarely even uses him. We don't value Japanese results very highly unless it's some character like cloud or greninja who we wanna see shake up the meta. It's probably pretty standard in japan to see pit in top 15 and even characters like duck hunt in the middle of the tier list.
Now this is interesting. Mind explaining why?
Team Four Star is awesome, how is it gross?
Shouldn't Japanese results be valued in general? For Brawl's tier lists, Pit is top tier in Japan...but mid in America(maybe results worldwide should be equally valued depending on a character like Pit who gets better results outside the US)
Yes I'm jealous of them. After all, I just try and try with my characters and end up nowhere, while they get to have all of the tournaments to their discretion. Do you think I like being stuck in some deadbeat state that has so little representatives, that I try at least making a name for myself by trying to play a character like Link? Do you think I like staying at home watching tournaments instead of participating in them? Or that I like playing online mode, very little amounts of others and have laggy Anther matches?
Abadango has said he might go Mewtwo. There is always hope.
I think that is against a couple of guidelines...
It's gonna be very matchup dependant I think too, hence M2 being a secondary. Or maybe not. He went M2 vs Fox once, one of his worst. Then again when money is on the line at this scale, could also influence his decision on who he is most comfortable with.
Easily at least a year. They have so few players compared to the top tiers that will have a more concrete meta than the lower tier characters. That'll probably skew the look on the game's balance and make it appear unbalanced with top tiers dominating the rest of the characters because of their highly fleshed-out meta when it could just be the lower tier characters are not as fleshed out. Kinda going into another topic, but the point you bring up makes me see that outcome for smash 4. Surely this time, we'll get some brawl ZSSes seen in this game.
This is a very good question. Japan's results definitely do get recognition over here in the west, but it ultimately doesn't impact too much on us because we're playing to a different meta than them: their relevant characters may differ from ours, because they favour a different kind of game than we do. It's important to note that Pit is very highly regarded in Japan, for sure, but it's worth remembering that the context isn't quite the same and western results will have a greater impact on western tier lists.
Hey, I'm sure it sucks to not have good competition near you. It's no reason to boo ZeRo and M2k (why just them I'm still not sure). I live in a state with very strong competition and I still suck so there's clearly more to it than that.
Yeah that was my point. Characters like duck hunt and pit are viewed a lot different in the US than in japan. I'm hoping our views on characters in smash 4 evolve to include a more worldwide scene. You can probably expect a lot of drastic knee jerk changes in some peoples' opinions if some upsets or strong foreign players occur at genesis.
Mainly off dair, it shouldn't only be used for spiking
I wish more melee players played SSB4 and I'm glad to see M2K is even going to SSB4 tournaments at all at this point.
Jams.
list.x27x20x11x10x10x10x9x9x9x8x7x7x7x7x6x5x5x5x5x4x4x4x3x3x3x3x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x2x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x0) represent exactly 50% of the total. (Weird...)
True
Since Earth's the best Pit there is(both are extremly underrated for some reason), maybe they both can start getting more and more popular with each tourney Earth and his Pit goes to.
This...this is something that really needs to happen(Ike and Expand Dong/Donkey Kong had their meta games evolved due to more exposure, Pit could get the same exposure if Earth does well at Genesis 3)
While I understand your point, it's also important to understand that not all regions are equal in terms of skill cap. Japan has very talented players, but is the skill pool in Japan as high as it is in America? If not, that might partially reflect why Pit does better in that region, and that then presents a situation where Earth can make good 9th/7th placings in a region with a lower skill cap whereas DKwill can make Top 4 multiple times in a region with a higher skill cap.
It's mostly when I learned that Cloud's aerials don't match the visual hitbox, especially with nair. That shifted my perception of him. Not by much, though. I thought he could be top 10, but now I think he's somewhere in that 15-20 area where at least 10 characters could fit.
I don't want to harp on this because I don't want to derail the thread, (take a shot every time someone says THAT,) but I feel like this is an important competitive topic. Please don't use personal frustrations as an excuse to boo other people. The best way to better your own condition is not to patronize or belittle the people that found success where you didn't but rather to attempt to learn how they succeeded and apply what you find helpful and relevant to your own life. And I mean ACTIVELY attempt to figure these things out, as in ask them yourself. Both ZeRo and Mew2King runs Twitters and stream on Twitch and they are active in talking to their fans, so why don't you ask them yourself how they get their funding and organize their life around Smash? Booing people who are doing what you want to do better than you are not only comes off as extremely petty but is also a good way to make sure that no one wants to offer you advice, even people other than ZeRo and Mew2King.
Well, there are a couple things you can do to improve yourself in spite of your current situation
Yes it is. The skill density in Japan is higher than any American state. They have a huge talent pool of high level players, which is why some of their top players seem inconsistent (they have to run through multiple sets with high level players before top 8 even starts). I feel that anyone who follows Japanese Smash 4 closely shares this opinion.
Oh my God the list I made had over 230 players. What am I doing with my life?I'm bored so have some character counts from
Interesting observations:
230 total.
The top 9 represented characters combined (
Sheik and Diddy combined represent 20.4% of the total.
I'm surprised at the number of Yoshi players. Also Robin and Bowser Jr. for that matter, Peach to a lesser extent. ZSS has lower representation than I expected? Only 9 unrepresented characters, which is surprising in a good way. (Although no Shulk makes me sad.) I expect that lone Bowser player is hoping to capitalize on his buffs. And there's a Gunner player?
(EDIT: Turns out that perfectly even representation would be ~4 players per character. So by that measure Robin is exactly where he should be. Also Ryu, weirdly enough. Talk about two different ends of the spectrum there...)
Caveats that this was just for fun, is not intended to be a statistically rigorous analysis, and the post I cribbed the data from only lists one character per player and doesn't include characters for all players to begin with. Take with appropriate amounts of salt.
In the spoiler tag is just a bunch of character thumbnails, 1 thumbnail = 1 person. It's also not sorted. I'm leaving it here because the different, more visual representation may appeal to somebody. If you don't care about that sort of thing, there's no need to bother looking inside.
Edits for formatting and stuff.
ParanoidDrone
. Definitely draw conclusions from this with caution though, for the reasons already mentioned.
They might have a higher talent pool than any individual American region,, but I'm talking about Nationals in America as a whole, where you see a substantial amount of the best talent from every region in the U.S converge.
As someone who's recently been going through growing pains with him, this feels like a very spot on analysis. From the trailer and his release, my biggest issue was that he was a swordsman without a swordsman's down tilt. I thought cross Slash would suffice, but I don't think it does (according to my math, cross Slash 1 is -2 on shield allowing for buffered rolls as a getaway, which is what computers always do in order to avoid the mixup). His jab is great in terms of range and the way his hurtbox contorts before the jab (he stands up straight and ***** his leg back), but the endlag is bad and he leaves his leg out saying "hit me." The time in between hits can get him punished even when going straight into jab 2 and 3.
I would amend "post less" to "listen more."
Cloud's definitely fast faller; he falls slightly slower than Ike? without meter if I recall correctly. As for aerials... The only slow aerial he has is Fair at frame 18 since it's basically, in terms of Smash, DK Fair as a giant sword. Everything else is sub-frame 12 with Nair being the most iffy since it's frame 5 from the back, but even then, it might be at worse, frame 10 in front and that's pretty damn good for a swordsman with a giant sword. Nair starts at 5, Uair starts at 7, Bair and Dair at 11. Dair looks pretty fast compared to Bair since he only places his sword in front of him and thrusts down while Bair has him turning to swing back.
Yeah seems like most Europeans have opted for Beast 6 rather than Genesis.
To add on to this, istudying has said he would like to come to the US sometime this summer. Don't lose hope!
