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Komorikiri's sets involving Cloud for anyone interested; Komorikiri's Cloud vs. Saiya's Captain Falcon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ5HiRFTZ0Y.
Komorikiri used Cloud to eliminate Edge and RAIN at Sumabato Niconico Qualifiers. RAIN also used Cloud at Umebura 20. Kamemushi eliminated Choco with Cloud at Umebura 20.
Just so everyone knows, it says on the chart "characters are unordered within each rank."Didn't someone ask about Japan or SHI-G's tier list? I don't have a source nor do I remember who asked for which, so take this with a grain of salt until someone can confirm it... Of all the places to see this first... the Zelda social.
Once again, I really don't understand why the Pits aren't just lopped together. They're barely different compared to Dr. Mario and Mario and Lucina and Marth. To me, it's more like a "legalized custom Pit" where yes, because you have different functioning moves that also includes a randomly weaker Ftilt, you will have to deal with things differently, but because you're barely any different, might as well have them be considered the same fighter. Also, I fail to see how Samus is considered that bad. I mean, really? Oh, and finally! Ike's actually considered good. Meanwhile, Marth... Oh, and Bowser's placing seems a little too... optimistic. Don't know much about Nintendo of America's Vice President of Sales, but I feel like he should be at most in B for now since while his U-throw is now a fantastic setup, Bowser still has his other old troubles.
Just messed around with him a little, didn't realize the position of FSmash's shots varies. That's annoying. I still think FSmash is a decent landing trapping tool though.
I suppose I can understand pacman's placement since Abadango was the last well known pacman out there, and I guess I can understand Robin's placement as well because the amount of Robin mains out there is severely lacking.
When Larry says Link's edge guarding is good, you're treating it like a baseless statement. Honestly, I don't know how you can justify that when you look at the tools he has objectively. Fair is good off stage, but it's his nair that's so good. The knockback and angle throughout the move, startup and lingering hitboxes, it's nothing short of a great off stage move. Dair is pretty good, though Link has to make a decision to use this move or nair off stage, and will usually opt for nair.
But the entire conversation is about whether or not Link's Fair is the most dangerous in the game and whether or not Link's Fair, and only Link's Fair, is very good at edgeguarding. Nothing more, nothing less. There's been talk about setting up Fair, but that's pretty much it.
Oh, I'm not screamin' or anything. Just found it funny that we were talking about how bad DH was while one was beating ZD. And ZD IS a pretty good Luigi...
Think of it as a bouncing fish with even lower penalty for missing with it(actually still net positive for missing with it due how mega gunmen and zigzag trap, just not as positive as a hit). It can't be used in neutral but allows for really potent follow-ups/horizontal pressure.
Good edge guarders typically have quick aerials with low enough endlag/good enough recovery that they can make it back after going in for the kill. Solid ledge trump options also help here. A subset of edgeguarders, like Little Mac, have the advantage of a strong hit with good KB angle (Dsmash) hitting below the ledge and straight walling out a lot of recoveries/ledge snaps.
Although I am glad that there are people who see Mii Gunner's potential, I also would like to know who uses Mii Gunner in Japan to justify the placement (it would be interesting to learn something new about my main). Then again, this ranking does explain why the list of possible buffs for Gunner on reddit has been completely ignored.Didn't someone ask about Japan or SHI-G's tier list? I don't have a source nor do I remember who asked for which, so take this with a grain of salt until someone can confirm it... Of all the places to see this first... the Zelda social.
Once again, I really don't understand why the Pits aren't just lopped together. They're barely different compared to Dr. Mario and Mario and Lucina and Marth. To me, it's more like a "legalized custom Pit" where yes, because you have different functioning moves that also includes a randomly weaker Ftilt, you will have to deal with things differently, but because you're barely any different, might as well have them be considered the same fighter. Also, I fail to see how Samus is considered that bad. I mean, really? Oh, and finally! Ike's actually considered good. Meanwhile, Marth... Oh, and Bowser's placing seems a little too... optimistic. Don't know much about Nintendo of America's Vice President of Sales, but I feel like he should be at most in B for now since while his U-throw is now a fantastic setup, Bowser still has his other old troubles.
Lasting hitboxes/multihit moves are also very powerful edgeguarding tools. They can catch airdodges and tend to cover more options. Large, arcing hitboxes are also helpful. Not to discredit projectiles, either. They can be very potent at restricting options and helping to set up for a satisfactory gimp.
I'd say Yoshi is in the same viability as Falcon, oppressive towards low and mid tiers but doesnt really beat any of the top 10 or so characters. Sometimes you do have to give credit to the fact that they have such an overwhelmingly positive matchup spread while many other 'highly viable' characters have the odd weak matchup to mid tiers and go down to the likes of megaman and dk.
Oh, I do have something to add about Link's edge-guarding prowess. Link's D-Air is good not for FF (don't do it), but instead for having the chance to stage spike the opponent. I'll admit, Link's meteor with D-Air is...abysmal, but that doesn't stop him from beating opponents who recover from under the stage. His D-Air is his best stage spike tool, like how his N-Air is his best horizontal edge-guard move and his F-Air is pretty good for opportunistic and early kills. His F-Tilt is also good for getting getups outside of a jump (sometimes outside of a jump).
It's not the best F-Air, but it's one of the most dangerous F-Airs in the game. It's not as dangerous as Ganondorf, Sheik or even Ryu's, but it's very dangerous to the point where Link can score rather great KOs against his opponents. Link's F-Air is very good at edge-guarding if you look at his kit, but I'm not discrediting or disregarding his other aerials like D-Air and N-Air. I know they're much better for usage, and I only went to the F-Air speak due to how the attack was buffed tremendously and how it is a more viable edge-guarding or KO'ing tool.
Cloud's aerials are dumb, I always thought so. Especially with that weight and mobility.
,,,,,, (at least vertically), (with jump), ,,,,,,/, ,,,, , , , , , , , , , , , ,
I mean... almost everybody is proficient at "stageguarding" to some degree. Key moves being those that are either fast and/or have generous active frames (Flamethrower/Fire Breath, Chomp), or the ability to place a harmful object on the ledge (Gordos, Trick Shot, Luma).
While every character could have proficient stage-guarding, there are obviously those who have it better than others. I believe it can be argued that
has it good because he is quick like but he almost always goes for the 2 frame with D-Smash. If Little Mac mains become more proficient in hitting the 2-frame with D-Smash it could be quite scary...
idk what world you live in where Cloud cant close stocks.
I'm mostly talking non-limit. Most of Cloud's moves are good in neutral, but for getting the kill his main options require a good read or high percent to get them. Komorikiri was getting kills with dash attack at like 150+, unless he was getting the fraudulent Reverse N-Air Up-Air FT finish or people run into Limit Cross Slash. Limit Cross Slash is amazing, no doubt, but it's more of a hard punish/damage racking tool. FT has no real set-ups into it because it being frame 16, and limit blade beam is limited to ledge traps/recovery punishes.
Because Limit is not a infinite state of being for Cloud, and regardless of how easy or hard it is for him to build it back up it's probably not a good idea to simply assume you'll have it every time you need it. Especially since if he ends up thrown offstage or something he's forced to burn it on his recovery.
You can't realistically have Limit at all times.
A man can pray.
