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Change for samus in next release

pizzacato

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Arguments are in fact to change minds, but people LIKE what they LIKE and they LOVE it.

You can't change people's mind about using right handed tools because you're a righty, when they're lefties using left handed tools. WHEN in some occasions they'll use a righty tool for comfort and preference anyway.

You can't argue these kind of things.
 

Booster

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This is just from my viewpoint of what should be changed in the next update, that will make her more balanced of a character, but I do also want to hear what everyone else has to say on the topic as well.

I say for one of the forms, whether it be fire or ice, make one of them a fast faller so samus can utilize shfflcs, which will allow her to cover any of the really bad match ups so they can't juggle her as long and hard, and so she doesnt die so soon to the floaty killers. Samus's trade mark is how long she lives, and everyone lives forever now, if you have the choice to counterpick the weight mid match, it will help her live longer at higher percents, or just longer in general against the match up because of the choice.

slightly longer wavedash, im not asking for a luigi style wavedash here, just slightly longer, it feels shorter than melee and just having that extra bit of mobility will help her evade and start up combos much better.

I think my qualms with forward tilt was that it all comes out in sequence rather than at the same time the leg is extending so I think the transition back to the melee style tilt would be better for her neutral game.

Of course the tether patches need to be done, above the level of the stage vertically, past the ledge of the stage horizontally, and the fail on the 4th tether instead of aerial moves coming out. Or even if possible go to the melee tether with the hitbox out as it attached to the stage.

the ability to directly go into crawl from ledge onto stage/continue into crawl after you lay a bomb.

Hahahha well everyone loves the extendur, but in reality her zair is 2x longer than her standing grab, so just logically one needs to either be shortened or one extended (hopefully just extend the standing grapple or make it that much faster like any other characters grab) (Or even the grab box on her canon act as a normal grab that then continues on ward in grapple form)

The jankiness of the ice moveset needs fixing, and a new ice dtilt. There are VERY few situations where I would ever opt for the dtilt in fear of the opponent getting only hit by the weak hitboxes of it, and then punish me. I have been getting accustomed to the ice f and up smash, and can fully see their use, but perhaps Im just missing something about ice dtilt.

Finally with regard to samus's wall jump into b reversals to gain momentum, since this is a possible tech, I would recommend just giving her a wall cling instead of a jump so stalling does not become a problem with samus, (if not patched, im going to master it and just stall out matches on the bottom of draculas and new yoshis)
The last thing we need is for her to fall faster
 

ph00tbag

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Arguments are in fact to change minds, but people LIKE what they LIKE and they LOVE it.

You can't change people's mind about using right handed tools because you're a righty, when they're lefties using left handed tools. WHEN in some occasions they'll use a righty tool for comfort and preference anyway.

You can't argue these kind of things.
Why are you lecturing me about this when I didn't spend a whole thread trying to convince me that my opinion of Ice Mode was unjustified? I put it out there because I was asked to, and defended it against challenges.
 

Hapajin

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Why are you lecturing me about this when I didn't spend a whole thread trying to convince me that my opinion of Ice Mode was unjustified? I put it out there because I was asked to, and defended it against challenges.
Whether you meant to or not, you did kind of change my mind. I mean, I still enjoy ice mode to some extent, but I see your point and I think there are many other ways to improve Samus play without adding an "interesting" beam swap option.
 

Serris

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Personally, I'd like to see hit stun added to the multi-hit hitboxes on ice beam's d-tilt. Maybe some additional knockback growth on the ice f-air and u-air, as well as a couple of throws. I think giving the ice f-smash better combo utility would be nice, too, seeing as it's wholly inadequate as a finisher.
 
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pizzacato

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Personally, some needs to add a sfx for the ice mode switch with the audio clip, "What's cooler than being cool?: Ice cold!"

plsthnxkbai
 

Shoto

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Personally, some needs to add a sfx for the ice mode switch with the audio clip, "What's cooler than being cool?: Ice cold!"

plsthnxkbai
I would enjoy more small additions like these for all characters actually. Just adds to the depth of the game me thinks.
 

Litt

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Why are you lecturing me about this when I didn't spend a whole thread trying to convince me that my opinion of Ice Mode was unjustified? I put it out there because I was asked to, and defended it against challenges.
Honestly I think Ice mode was their way of saying, here is another way to deal with ****ty match ups, and the reason you can't see the utility of the majority of her ice moves is because they are that of a fast faller moveset, but this did not fix any of samus's weaknesses in her fire form, so really I do kind of agree with phoot here that they should have just realized, samus has been around for over 13 years in the metagame, its not like she hasnt gotten played in the competitive scene at all, we should just work on improving her as a character instead of giving her another move set of gimmicks... maybe they should have just worked on what made her have holes as a character, but on top of not doing that, they gave the rest of the cast buffed attacks which kill samus much easier than she should die with regard to her weight as she would in melee, but thats just me, its their game and they do what they want with it, I dont see doc having a whole new moveset, just two broken spamable moves and and even more broken recovery, make samus more broken plz and get rid of this half assed ice form :/
 
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pinkdeaf1

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Honestly I think Ice mode was their way of saying, here is another way to deal with ****ty match ups, and the reason you can't see the utility of the majority of her ice moves is because they are that of a fast faller moveset, but this did not fix any of samus's weaknesses in her fire form, so really I do kind of agree with phoot here that they should have just realized, samus has been around for over 13 years in the metagame, its not like she hasnt gotten played in the competitive scene at all, we should just work on improving her as a character instead of giving her another move set of gimmicks... maybe they should have just worked on what made her have holes as a character, but on top of not doing that, they gave the rest of the cast buffed attacks which kill samus much easier than she should die with regard to her weight as she would in melee, but thats just me, its their game and they do what they want with it, I dont see doc having a whole new moveset, just two broken spamable moves and and even more broken recovery, make samus more broken plz and get rid of this half ***** ice form :/
This raises the idea that ice mode was made so that defending against Samus's ice mode would vary ever so slightly from defending from Samus's fire mode. While the modes do change Samus's gameplay slightly, they do not change the fact that she is floaty. The modes weren't ever intended to cover Samus' floaty weakness. The way it seems, the mode changes were intended to give Samus alternate options in the neutral game, in Samus's combo game, and for kill moves, widening Samus's playability (I think I made up that word) in different situations and matchups.
 

Litt

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:O wow PINK I DIDN'T realize that new stuff gives you new options. Of course that was what it was intended for, that was exactly my point, that they just threw in a bunch of new **** and hoped that it balanced out in the long run against the rest of the cast, instead of actually putting work in and improving samus mechnically as a character and putting thought into what make her a weaker character in the first place...
 
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pizzacato

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:O wow PINK I DIDN'T realize that new stuff gives you new options. Of course that was what it was intended for, that was exactly my point, that they just threw in a bunch of new **** and hoped that it balanced out in the long run against the rest of the cast, instead of actually putting work in and improving samus mechnically as a character and putting throught into what make her a weaker character in the first place...
Barbie putting PMBR on blast.
That should be Wes's next Smash on Blast episode.
 

ph00tbag

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Fwiw, slightly different physics wouldn't be unheard of in mechanics like Ice Mode. Sorry to harp on about Gen, but Crane has a more ambiguous jump arc than Mantis, so it wouldn't be the first time stance switching changed a characters physics.
 

CBO0tz

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Soo..
Scan visor for smash taunt anyone?

Button combo input for Ice Beam starting a match is also needed.

Those are really the only things I can think of wanting for Samus.
(Apart from wanting a rework of Samus' Black palette option into the Metroid Prime Phazon Suit if we get a Dark Suit Alt as well as Light Suit)
 

Litt

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Soo..
Scan visor for smash taunt anyone?

Button combo input for Ice Beam starting a match is also needed.

Those are really the only things I can think of wanting for Samus.
(Apart from wanting a rework of Samus' Black palette option into the Metroid Prime Phazon Suit if we get a Dark Suit Alt as well as Light Suit)
Who gives a flying crap about scan visor... not needed if ice is taken out because they actually put thought into how to improve her as a character instead of hoping the moves they throw at her make her better by having more... quality /=/ quantity :/ cmon PMBR.

Fwiw, slightly different physics wouldn't be unheard of in mechanics like Ice Mode. Sorry to harp on about Gen, but Crane has a more ambiguous jump arc than Mantis, so it wouldn't be the first time stance switching changed a characters physics.
OMG SOMEONE SEES LOGIC :O <3 Ph00t!!!!
 

pinkdeaf1

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Who gives a flying crap about scan visor... not needed if ice is taken out because they actually put thought into how to improve her as a character instead of hoping the moves they throw at her make her better by having more... quality /=/ quantity :/ cmon PMBR.



OMG SOMEONE SEES LOGIC :O <3 Ph00t!!!!
How would a beam change alter fall speed?
 

Chevy

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I think I've come around on the idea of being able to switch beams in mid-air. Being able to actually swap safely would remedy a lot of ph00ts complaints.
 

Litt

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How would a beam change alter fall speed?
Hmm what makes samus a floaty character in the first place? Her jetpack? Because they armor is hella heavy since she is one of the heaviest characters out there. And in ice mode you would assume her jetpack doesnt work since its fire as well, making her short hops a difference height and her fall speed to drastically increase
 

Narpas_sword

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shes floaty because her spacejump boots are malfunctioning.
it's the only thing that makes sense to me.

If she gets a fastfalling property, it should be on a Fusion suit costume, and she should move like falcon but witht he ice moves (ice missiles are fusion afterall)


then we can get rid of ZSS, who shouldn't be fighting anyway. Her only moves are 'run away' and 'stun'
 
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ph00tbag

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I'm pretty sure the floatiness is just an attempt to capture the feel of Samus in Metroid. Especially in Super, Samus just kinda floated.
 

Chevy

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being able to swap in the air (i assume you mean quickly) ruins the whole point of having to sacrifice certain moves to utilise others .
Yeah I know, and switching while off-stage would be kinda silly. I'm just finding less and less use for ice mode lately, even the match-ups where I thought it was good I just end up going almost all fire. Ice f-smash too bad.

shes floaty because her spacejump boots are malfunctioning.
it's the only thing that makes sense to me.
I always assumed she was floaty because her spacejump boots were working properly, lol.
 

CBO0tz

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Yeah I know, and switching while off-stage would be kinda silly. I'm just finding less and less use for ice mode lately, even the match-ups where I thought it was good I just end up going almost all fire. Ice f-smash too bad.
I don't mind Ice mode, the f-smash, while less powerful, has a couple more hitboxes than fire f-smash; if you hit with the whole cannon, when the ice explodes off it, it throws people back and stuns them. That's what all the ice weapons need, more hitstun.
 

Chevy

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I understand the mechanics of the moves, but you need a hard read to land the f-smash because it's got so much startup, and the reward isn't worth it. Also, the second hit will only land under ~30%, otherwise they are knocked too far away. It's supposed to be good on shield, but it doesn't do enough shield damage even if both hits land.

I actually think the f-smash is really cool, the two hit mechanic makes it good at low percents for setting up combos, and I like having an option that's supposed to be good on shield. But it doesn't do any of that very well.

Then we have the lightning quick murder cannon that is her fire f-smash, and it's no contest.
 

Hapajin

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I also think Samus' SSB64 bair would actually be a nice touch for PM Samus. It seems like it'd be a nice boost to Samus' air game.
 

Matty89

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Hold down taunt at the beginning of match to start out with the ice beam would be nice
 

Searing_Sorrow

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I find this thread somewhat funny. The only likely change to samus is a nerf to zair recovery in some way. The pm team have done more than enough to make her a viable character, and the suggestion to drop floatiness in one of her modes would turn her into combo food in a lot of matchups and greatly reduce the thing she has going for her in recovery. She seems pretty strong and dominates a few matchups without being overly destroyed in any. Seems like a good deal
 
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KaosSpawn

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I'd like to see a dark samus alternate skin as well as more alternate skins for the other characters. I know it's not important but I enjoy the little things.
 

FoxBlaze71

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Instant air beam swap, reliable KO material besides Charge Beam, and less floatiness with at least one of the beam forms would be nice.
 

FoxBlaze71

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Ice U-smash is the only one of those I find consistent. The rest I only have any results with at ridiculously high %s, but then again I'm a massive scrub so KOs period are a rarity for me in PM.
 

Narpas_sword

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its character dependant i guess.

nair is super good at offstage Ko/gimp as it is great at intercepting recoveries.
ice fair is goot because of the angle,
bair, you need to sweetspot, is a great followup after a dair on ground or utilt to pop them.

missiles to carry offstage
 

TimeSmash

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I just want a Fusion Suit Samus!!! But also maybe change zair to Melee tether, and that awesome Shinespark dash attack idea someone had, possibly with an electrical element. Also possibly some sort of further use for Forward Smash in Ice Mode. The second hit could explode in ice shards or something, which travelled a small distance in a radial direction. Just an idea
 

Narpas_sword

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Fsmash in ice needs to have no knockback for the first hit, but hitstun, so it 'freezes' them and then they get hit by the second hit.
The second hit should hit them similar to fire Dtilt
 

TimeSmash

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Fsmash in ice needs to have no knockback for the first hit, but hitstun, so it 'freezes' them and then they get hit by the second hit.
The second hit should hit them similar to fire Dtilt
So you want them to link together? That's not a bad idea, seeing as how I could brew a cup of tea before that move actually comes out haha
 

Narpas_sword

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Yea, they certainly need to link together like upsmash (fire) does.

The second hit could flip them up/ behind you (for not huge knockback) and maybe rip a bit more shield off them?

//HAHAHA or 'kockback' according to Project Smash Attacks
 
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