Change for samus in next release

[Narpas_sword]

we need sfx that dont sound like a robot =/

i jokingly said to my mate that i was going to put https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7h24WPziT8 as the sound of samus dying off the side.

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTNGZaRVS3A#t=58

for star KO =P

 

[CBO0tz]

OMG. THE COOL REFERENCES TO METROID WITHIN THIS THREAD.
Alright, first off, i totally agree with Narpas_sword on the Shinespark effect on dash attacks. That would be epic. (Although imo if it were to be authentic the dash attack should be extended.)

I had an idea where the Ice dtilt could become a floor deterrant like Diddy's bananas; you basically freeze the floor with it a la the Ice Spreader in Metroid Prime, and when people walk on it they slip.
The ice melts and dissapears twice as fast as bananas, and give it a puff of smoke over it as the signal it's gone.
But I think that would piss a LOT of people off since nobody likes bananas, and since it's solid ice, you wouldn't be able to pick it up.


So if we gave Samus the ability to wall grab, there's only one way to do it:
The SPIDER BALL. Samus could just be in Morph ball mode while clinging to a wall, and it'd be no sweat, no new animations required.

Only problem with that idea is that the Spider Ball allows you to roll around on ceilings in Metroid, and in the case of PM - that would also happen on the undersides of Stages. That would be the most annoying thing ever.
So the only 2 options I see about making sure stalls like that don't happen are either making the Spider Ball immobile like all the other wall grabs, or give the player a very small time limit for being able to roll around on the walls at the bottom of FD.

 

[Narpas_sword]

OMG. THE COOL REFERENCES TO METROID WITHIN THIS THREAD.
Alright, first off, i totally agree with Narpas_sword on the Shinespark effect on dash attacks. That would be epic. (Although imo if it were to be authentic the dash attack should be extended.)

I had an idea where the Ice dtilt could become a floor deterrant like Diddy's bananas; you basically freeze the floor with it a la the Ice Spreader in Metroid Prime, and when people walk on it they slip.
The ice melts and dissapears twice as fast as bananas, and give it a puff of smoke over it as the signal it's gone.
But I think that would piss a LOT of people off since nobody likes bananas, and since it's solid ice, you wouldn't be able to pick it up.


So if we gave Samus the ability to wall grab, there's only one way to do it:
The SPIDER BALL. Samus could just be in Morph ball mode while clinging to a wall, and it'd be no sweat, no new animations required.

Only problem with that idea is that the Spider Ball allows you to roll around on ceilings in Metroid, and in the case of PM - that would also happen on the undersides of Stages. That would be the most annoying thing ever.
So the only 2 options I see about making sure stalls like that don't happen are either making the Spider Ball immobile like all the other wall grabs, or give the player a very small time limit for being able to roll around on the walls at the bottom of FD.

dash attack wouldnt be longer, shinespark ends on hit anyway.

 

[pizzacato]

Real talk though, back throw should have HEAVY growth in knock back, like Ness's, or Peach's Fthrow, or Mewtwo's upthrow, or Charzard's upthrow, etc. There's not a single guaranteed kill move for Samus, it's all relatively DI dependent. And it frustrates me doing a lot of work for still no guarantee on a stock for getting a correct read on a grab.

I know I can follow up with many options from grabs, but I would just like something a little more scary off of grab.

 

[Chevy]

Real talk though, back throw should have HEAVY growth in knock back, like Ness's, or Peach's Fthrow, or Mewtwo's upthrow, or Charzard's upthrow, etc. There's not a single guaranteed kill move for Samus, it's all relatively DI dependent. And it frustrates me doing a lot of work for still no guarantee on a stock for getting a correct read on a grab.

I know I can follow up with many options from grabs, but I would just like something a little more scary off of grab.

I would actually like that, currently you can surprise someone every now and then with a back throw on Yoshi's or WarioWare for the kill, but that's incredibly rare. Though I'm pretty sure she has guaranteed follow-ups on down throw on ~70% of the cast. Up-throw for spacies.

 

[pizzacato]

@MonkUnit Make it so, pls ^^^

 

[CBO0tz]

Been thinking a little more about Samus changes.
What if she got her Smash 64 Nair back? Basically a sex kick that's angled at like 95 degrees. It could function like Luigi's Nair but sends people in the same direction her leg is pointing.
Downside is that she has less close quarter horizontal aerial superiority.
I'd imagine it'd be another potent kill move at high percentages though, and could easily combo people into the u-air at low percentages. Might be useful if Samus was made a fast-faller.

One thing they could do for Samus is make Beam swapping taunts quicker by making the Arm Cannon undergo a Holographic Glow/scan thingy like in the Metroid Prime Games, and make it accessible in mid-air. They could probably just whip up a new color for the glow from one of the Swordsman's swords. And it would be awesome to hear the actual beam-changing sound effect from the Prime trilogy.

Also I'm still hoping the Spider Ball actually becomes a thing.
You'd get 5 seconds of being able to roll around, that's the same amount that Sheik and Lucario have to cling on walls.
If they actually made the Boost Ball able to boost off ledges, there could be the option to just roll off the ledge, and you'd automatically be wall clinging with it. There could even be the bonus ability to Boost off the wall you're rolling on, so you could go extra deep with Samus to get a kill.

 

[Narpas_sword]

dont you dare change my nair!

 

[CBO0tz]

dont you dare change my nair!

Woah, alright man.. Take it easy! Just throwing out some ideas

 

[Litt]

spider crawl has been desired for a while, this wasn't an xmas wishlist for samus's next release it was a serious list of what would make her more viable. Having beam change mid air is just as broken as the rest of the **** the PMBR threw into PM, so I guess they may like that idea, back to the nair, useless stupid change, if anything from 64 take her back air axe kick which covers a much greater range and has relatively the same amount of priority, which if you follow PM they already tried to implement in samus's original release.

Edit: you made your acc less than a month ago son, expect not to be taken seriously until you put forward good ideas or your presence has been known and around for a bit.

 

[pizzacato]

spider crawl has been desired for a while, this wasn't an xmas wishlist for samus's next release it was a serious list of what would make her more viable. Having beam change mid air is just as broken as the rest of the **** the PMBR threw into PM, so I guess they may like that idea, back to the nair, useless stupid change, if anything from 64 take her back air axe kick which covers a much greater range and has relatively the same amount of priority, which if you follow PM they already tried to implement in samus's original release.

Edit: you made your acc less than a month ago son, expect not to be taken seriously until you put forward good ideas or your presence has been known and around for a bit.

I'd like to know your opinion on the back throw augmentation I suggested.

 

[Litt]

**** yeah anything to make our girl better, and lets make samus's jetpack actually let her fly a little during the first jump like mewtwo's new float, she has a jet pack people... LETS USE IT

 

[pizzacato]

That's the spirit.

 

[CBO0tz]

spider crawl has been desired for a while, this wasn't an xmas wishlist for samus's next release it was a serious list of what would make her more viable. Having beam change mid air is just as broken as the rest of the **** the PMBR threw into PM, so I guess they may like that idea, back to the nair, useless stupid change, if anything from 64 take her back air axe kick which covers a much greater range and has relatively the same amount of priority, which if you follow PM they already tried to implement in samus's original release.

Edit: you made your acc less than a month ago son, expect not to be taken seriously until you put forward good ideas or your presence has been known and around for a bit.

I wasn't pretending this was a "wish list", it's just the hype from imagining Samus with all these little abilities in reference to her game made me want to think of more ideas that could work.
I feel like the beam change mid-air response was a little sarcastic. Because you JUST said **** yeah anything to make Samus better.
And the Nair being a useless change and the bair being more useful wouldve been decent explanation, but for one: singling me out because I'm slightly new here so you don't have to take my ideas seriously? That's kind of a **** move.
I like cool ideas, I share them. I don't need somebody who spends money to make their account better telling me I should be ignored regardless of the posts I share.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Account date doesn't affect anyone's outlook to your posts, except barbie. He's just saying he won't take you seriously. But that doesn't matter. It's just barbie's was of saying "Welcome to the boards, I can act like a nipple sometimes".

If we're getting stuff from games, i want Samu's Xray Visor from Metroid 3. so OP....

honestly, apart from visual tweaks to reference her games more, i dont see namy things needed at the moment, Im totally comfortable with her current prowess.

Ive always disliked the way the charge beam looks though. Would prefer something from her games

or the wavebeam from Prime, kinda enlarged oscillating shots.


Not that that can be changed easily....

 

[CBO0tz]

Account date doesn't affect anyone's outlook to your posts, except barbie. He's just saying he won't take you seriously. But that doesn't matter. It's just barbie's was of saying "Welcome to the boards, I can act like a nipple sometimes".

If we're getting stuff from games, i want Samu's Xray Visor from Metroid 3. so OP....

honestly, apart from visual tweaks to reference her games more, i dont see namy things needed at the moment, Im totally comfortable with her current prowess.

Ive always disliked the way the charge beam looks though. Would prefer something from her games

or the wavebeam from Prime, kinda enlarged oscillating shots.


Not that that can be changed easily....

Alright. Well it is pretty good to be a user on Smashboards. Lots of good insight and help for training mains.
I don't mind Samus the way she is either. She doesn't need anything to make her better, the ideas are just fun to imagine. The Spider Ball wouldnt even be necessary. But I do think her back throw should have more velocity rampup with damage.

 

[CBO0tz]

Account date doesn't affect anyone's outlook to your posts, except barbie. He's just saying he won't take you seriously. But that doesn't matter. It's just barbie's was of saying "Welcome to the boards, I can act like a nipple sometimes".

If we're getting stuff from games, i want Samu's Xray Visor from Metroid 3. so OP....

honestly, apart from visual tweaks to reference her games more, i dont see namy things needed at the moment, Im totally comfortable with her current prowess.

Ive always disliked the way the charge beam looks though. Would prefer something from her games

or the wavebeam from Prime, kinda enlarged oscillating shots.


Not that that can be changed easily....

Alright. Well it is pretty good to be a user on Smashboards. Lots of good insight and help for training mains.
I don't mind Samus the way she is either. She doesn't need anything to make her better, the ideas are just fun to imagine. The Spider Ball wouldnt even be necessary. But I do think her back throw should have more velocity rampup with damage.

 

[Litt]

I wasn't pretending this was a "wish list", it's just the hype from imagining Samus with all these little abilities in reference to her game made me want to think of more ideas that could work.
I feel like the beam change mid-air response was a little sarcastic. Because you JUST said **** yeah anything to make Samus better.
And the Nair being a useless change and the bair being more useful wouldve been decent explanation, but for one: singling me out because I'm slightly new here so you don't have to take my ideas seriously? That's kind of a **** move.
I like cool ideas, I share them. I don't need somebody who spends money to make their account better telling me I should be ignored regardless of the posts I share.

I was being the utmost sarcastic because samus doesn't need any of this ****, it would just be nice. Like ike's foward throw to fair combo that works on almost every character at every percent... 100% not necessary for him as a character, has nothing to do with skill, just getting a grab which leads to a butt load of damage from a heavy hitter (bull**** there, heavy hitters should get **** on a grab, the grab itself should just do the damage), ontop of an auto kill on most smaller stages... but thats besides the point. The nair from 64 has less piroirty than samus's current nair, and it is one of her best tools against a number of character both on stage and off for edgeguarding. The bair from 64 covers a huge area and thus the sweet spot is much larger instead of trying to tipper this already hard to hit move in the first place, it would help her zoning tremendously by just creating a wall of pain for samus which could even be used with the bomb jumps on stage. And no if you read the majority of the threads, I take no new player seriously, nor do I respect what they have to say until they have proven it... @ Chevy @ pizzacato can tell you the exact same thing... and no its not because I paid for membership that I am telling you that I am ignoring your posts, I don't ignore them at all, I just flat out tell you they are wrong, useless or pointless IF THEY ACTUALLY are, taking away samus's current nair would be the stupidest choice to adapting the character to the current metagame, and ONLY if they made one beam a fast falling character would they have to consider changing her basic not elemental aerials (up, down, back and nair). If you have cool ideas, make a new post to share them, but read the OP on a thread you post on or you will get shut down hard, especially if it is on one of mine and you just choose to share ideas to change the conversation topic. Your first few weeks should be for reading and watching the boards, learn how people conduct themselves on here as a rule of thumb and when you actually have something to contribute... chances are it already has been done, but that's what the first few weeks are for to completely familiarize yourself with these boards and this character. At that point, you will know what is crap, what is new, and what is old, and you yourself can be able to contribute without being told off by assholes like me.

 

[Narpas_sword]

What Barbie is trying to say is

"welcome to the samus board, please try to stay on topic "

Then a whole lot of grumpy face emotes

 

[Litt]

What Barbie is trying to say is

"welcome to the samus board, please try to stay on topic "

Then a whole lot of grumpy face emotes

I certainly need narpas for all my, "summarize this in 500 words or less assignments", but he nailed it for the most part

 

[pizzacato]

@ CBO0tz got Barbie'd

lol but yeah, welcome dude. Glad to have you! ^-^

 

[Narpas_sword]

having barbie rant at you just means youre in.

its like a paddlin'

 

[CBO0tz]

I feel so welcome.

 

[Litt]

Its more like an asshole alert... make a mistake... boom, im there... forever watching in the shadows... not the moderator anyone asked for or wanted... but the one the boards needed

 

[pizzacato]

^^^ omg lol

 

[ph00tbag]

its also got ****all range in front, jab has longer reach horizontally at standing height.

the comparison to uptilt is pretty far off. "Utilt covers the same space in the opposite direction" is not true at all.

You're getting away from what my point was. I'm talking about the moves' utilities as anti-airs specifically. Utilt has the best coverage, but it's slow. Fsmash and ftilt can really only cover short-hops. SH nair covered the full-jump, but put Samus in the air. Usmash covers short-hops and full-jumps, without being particularly slow to come out. If you know your opponent is going to jump, why put anything else out? Did I mention that for all this coverage, it's a KO move?

Along the same lines, I tend to agree with Chevy that Plasma usmash could stand to have smaller hitboxes.

I think you are way to mid to low level of a player to make such a claim at all ph00t, this time, just walk away and dont respond

Oh, so it's back to the poisonous attitude you had when you started posting here. Good to know.

For what it's worth, skill has nothing to do with analyzing the game as a design. Stop with all the posturing and shut off if you have no idea how to make a rational argument for your position. We've been over this.

 

[Chevy]

You're getting away from what my point was. I'm talking about the moves' utilities as anti-airs specifically. Utilt has the best coverage, but it's slow. Fsmash and ftilt can really only cover short-hops. SH nair covered the full-jump, but put Samus in the air. Usmash covers short-hops and full-jumps, without being particularly slow to come out. If you know your opponent is going to jump, why put anything else out? Did I mention that for all this coverage, it's a KO move?

Worth noting is that in ice mode, you don't have a F-smash that you can actually react to a jump with, you pretty much have to have a read to ever land it. Anyway, Ice Up-smash has good coverage, but the lack of horizontal range means that sometimes one of those other moves is the better choice. And if the Up-smash isn't going to kill, there's a decent chance that one of those moves is going to produce a better follow up than ice Up-smash. Also it's very punishable on miss.

 

[Narpas_sword]

Tbh phoot, I'm totally lost as to what your point is.

Care to state it again?

 

[ph00tbag]

My point is that ice mode in general is really only good for fair and usmash, and they're such generally applicable options that I feel like the mode detracts from the Samus playstyle, which is rooted in the fact that each of her moves has very specific utility, and very specific downsides. I feel like the utilities and downsides of the moves don't complement the rest of her kit at all, and are mostly good enough on their own to invalidate some parts of her kit in most or all cases.

Long story short, I can accept that ice mode was an experiment, and a convenient way to test multiple options in a competitive environment, and in that way, ice mode may have been a worthwhile aspect, but it's time to put it down, because it's not something the character should have.

 

[Narpas_sword]

So, from what I gather, you don't think it fits how you see samus as a character?

 

[ph00tbag]

Generally, speaking, yes.

And I think that, from a design perspective, not necessarily from a player perspective, that's incredibly important. And I'm more a design connoisseur than gameplay.

 

[Narpas_sword]

but it's what YOU think.

not what the design team thinks... nor necessarily anyone else.

you're giving up two good moves on the ground, and a decent move, to get 1 good move and 2 average.

TBH after all the times ridley swooped her in Prime, id think samus would love to have one safe uppercut that would knock a flying lizard out of the air. =p

 

[ph00tbag]

Yeah, but no one who thinks differently from me has been able to demonstrate to me why, from a design perspective, that kit is a better idea for the Samus design concept. All they've ever done is say, "I'm a better player, so you should listen to my design ideas." I can't begin to explain why that is such a stupid argument.

Maybe if this character were Ganondorf, it would be a good idea, but Samus is not Ganondorf.

 

[Narpas_sword]

In my mind, its not meant to be a better kit, but an alternative set that allows samus to deal with situations in a different manner.

 

[Chevy]

Yeah, but no one who thinks differently from me has been able to demonstrate to me why, from a design perspective, that kit is a better idea for the Samus design concept. All they've ever done is say, "I'm a better player, so you should listen to my design ideas." I can't begin to explain why that is such a stupid argument.

Maybe if this character were Ganondorf, it would be a good idea, but Samus is not Ganondorf.

It's fun, it's canon, it helps her in the match-ups she struggles in.

 

[pizzacato]

I don't use ice, but I still AM glad it's there.

 

[ph00tbag]

In my mind, its not meant to be a better kit, but an alternative set that allows samus to deal with situations in a different manner.

Sure, and from a testing perspective, it's a valid thing to do. But I've played this character and watch people play her, rather obsessively, for eight years, and ice mode just isn't Samus for me.

it's canon, it helps her in the match-ups she struggles in.

Just want to address this. It's not canon. Not in the way Morph Ball, or missiles are canon. It was a mechanic in Prime and Echoes, and vaguely resembles a relatively inconsequential mechanic in Super. In every other game, the beams stacked, or Samus could only use one beam at a time.

And in general, it seems to even be more useful generally than plasma in most, if not all cases, but also with requiring less applied knowledge of the character. Of course something like that would help in bad match-ups. Probably helps out in some good match-ups, too.

 

[pizzacato]

Uhhh. Metroids (the organisms) are weakest to ice. This is major canonical knowledge. Not even an inconsequential mechanic....

 

[ph00tbag]

I'm talking about the beam switch, clearly. Echoes did not have Ice Beam. Giving Samus ice moves is whatever to me.

In one beta verson of the game, some of Samus's attacks were changed to have ice effects. I was okay with this. It's the fact that Samus has two modes, on the basis of canon, that bothers me.

 

[Chevy]

Just want to address this. It's not canon. Not in the way Morph Ball, or missiles are canon. It was a mechanic in Prime and Echoes, and vaguely resembles a relatively inconsequential mechanic in Super. In every other game, the beams stacked, or Samus could only use one beam at a time.

And in general, it seems to even be more useful generally than plasma in most, if not all cases, but also with requiring less applied knowledge of the character. Of course something like that would help in bad match-ups. Probably helps out in some good match-ups, too.

Metroid Prime is the best game, therefore it's canon. I would also vehemently disagree that ice is usually better. I use fire 90% of the time. Only switch to ice when the range is important, or I'm struggling to land a kill.