Challenger Approaching!!! ROY!! .PAC UP!!!! 12/7/09 at 3:36 AM EST

[UmbraLion]

Somewhere around here is a MegaUpload with all the default costumes in one folder, see if you can find that.

Or just deal with downloading them one at a time, what do you need them all at once for?

Good point. Thanks.

EDIT: How do you edit the portrait in the character selection menu?

 

[Wander]

CUPASH - it's a very long and frustrating process compared to texture editing.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

look in this guide for enigma's csp tools (it includes a guide):

http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=80758&gr_i_ni

 

[_Bankai_]

@Wander: Definite ideas for victory poses you say? Not sure about any just yet. All I can say is that ALL of Roy's victory poses NEED to be different from Marth's, simply because all of the poses are too Marth exclusive. With that said, let's get back to the taunts:

Your idea about having the thrust for down taunt was good, but the only problem is it would look semi awkward, considering it doesn't have the finesse that Roy's taunt did in melee. What I would do for the down taunt is either attempt to make it the thrust, or substitute it with Marth's opening fight animation.

The side taunt right now looks fine with the flashy sword swings.

As for the up taunt...herm. Not sure what to replace that with. Right now it looks like something that either Marth or Roy would do...so I guess it could stay.

 

[Wander]

No, my idea was to replace dtaunt with the Shield Breaker -charging- animation, the one where he pulls back in preparation for the stab, since it's the closest animation Marth has to Roy's Melee taunt.

 

[camelot]

COMPREHENSIVE CHANGELIST AHOY

Here we go.....


Cosmetic changes (no impact on gameplay):

- Sword swings are red
- Most sword swings have been modified to look "smoother"
- Idle pose doesn't switch
- Normal attacks don't play random voice clips. Smash attacks do instead, using 1 of 4 random "smash" voice clips.
- "Pain" voice clips play after 3 frames instead of 40 when in hitstun
- Side taunt has a Flare Blade trail on the sword
- Down taunt has no voice clip

__________

Attribute changes:

- Friction increased slightly
- Walk speed decreased, at about Link's walk speed
- Run speed decreased, at about Donkey Kong's run speed
- Gravity increased
- Terminal velocity increased
- Weight decreased

__________

Attack changes:

- All attacks pull inward on striking with the tip unless said otherwise

Jab:
- 6 damage hit, low knockback
- 3 damage tip
- Cannot rapid jab like Marth

Dash attack:
- 12 damage hit, moderate knockback, sends behind Roy
- 7 damage tip

F-tilt:
- 12 damage hit, moderate/high knockback
- 9 damage tip

U-tilt:
- 9 damage hit, low/moderate knockback, hits diagonally upward
- 7 damage tip
- 8 damage hit if opponent is behind Roy, hits upward
- 6 damage tip if opponent is behind Roy

D-tilt:
- 10 damage hit, low/moderate knockback, hits upward
- 7 damage tip
- Using it repeatedly doesn't scoot you forward

F-smash:
- 19 damage hit, high knockback
- 12 damage tip
- Start-up is at 0.75x speed

U-smash:
- Hits 5 times for a total of 16 damage
- First 4 hits do 3 damage, tipped hits spike
- Last hit does 4 damage, moderate upward knockback
- Has fire

D-smash:
- 20 or 17 damage hit, high upward knockback
- 8 damage tip, links into second swing
- Second swing deals 2 less damage and less knockback than forward swing

N-air:
- First swing 5 damage hit, set knockback
- First swing 4 damage tip
- Second swing 8 damage hit, low knockback
- Second swing 7 damage tip

F-air:
- 9 damage hit, high base and very low scaling knockback
- 6 damage tip

B-air:
- 13 damage hit, moderate knockback
- 10 damage tip, "fire spike" hits downward and has fire

U-air:
- 7 damage hit, very low knockback
- 6 damage tip
- Sweeps further in back

D-air:
- 10 damage spike hitbox, must hit opponent when they're on top of Roy
- 9 damage hit, low sideways knockback
- 8 damage tip
- Sweeps further in front

__________

Throw changes:

- All throws do 1 more damage compared to Marth's

F-throw:
- Slightly more base knockback
- Slightly less scaling knockback
- "Slam" effect on ground

U-throw:
- Throws at 75 degree angle

B-throw:
- Throws at 70 degree angle backwards
- Is essentially a reverse u-throw, has a tiny bit less knockback, however
- "Slam" effect on ground

D-throw:
- Unchanged

__________

Special attack changes:

Neutral-b (Flare Blade):
- Has new effect
- Uses different charging and swinging animations
- Charge can be held up to 4 seconds
- Minimum 8 damage
- Maximum 50 damage

Side-b (Double-Edged Dance):
- Huge overhaul, speed, damage, and/or voice clips of all attacks was changed
- Hit 1: 4 damage hit, 3 damage tip, has "stall" effect when used in the air
- Hit 2 side: 4 damage hit, 3 damage tip
- Hit 2 upper: 4 damage hit, 3 damage tip
- Hit 3 side: 8 damage hit, 7 damage tip, good knockback, doesn't link into 4th hit
- Hit 3 upper: 8 damage hit, 6 damage tip, hits downward and towards Roy, doesn't link into 4th hit
- Hit 3 lower: 7 damage in 3 hits, doesn't link into 4th hit unless at very low percents
- Hit 4 side: 13 damage hit, 10 damage tip, high sideways knockback
- Hit 4 upper: 13 damage hit, 10 damage tip, high upwards knockback
- Hit 4 lower: 15 damage in 5 hits, is rather easy to DI out of

Up-b (Blazer):
- Has new effect
- Hits 7 times for a total of 11 damage, hits upward with moderate/high base knockback
- First hit deals 6 damage, all others deal 1
- Is 0.5x speed until the peak of the attack where it is 1x
- Gains slightly less height

Down-b (Counter):
- Hits at a lower and more devastating angle
- Window for countering is smaller (total of 20 frames compared to 25)

Final Smash:
- Different trail
- Blasts opponents upward in a flash of fire


And <here> is the newest .pac.

 

[Wander]

Okay - Marth's original neutral B has two startup animations, SpecialNStart and SpecialNLoop. I'm guessing Start is the quick animation where he pulls his arm back, and Loop is where he holds it in position? Is it possible to place both of these animations on the dtaunt button?

 

[UmbraLion]

All I wanna know is how to put CF's "YES!" into his U-taunt.

 

[Wander]

I messed around with his SFX awhile ago, but I can't remember the exact digits.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?3yjwkywt2dm

That CF .PAC has "YES" on his uptaunt, his dtaunt is IASA after one frame, and his electric knee does 69% damage.

 

[UmbraLion]

Is there a way to take a .bin snapshot you made and turn it into a .tga file for CUPASH?

 

[BG3]

Forgive me if what I'm suggesting is completely impossible, but I have a suggestion for a possible animation for Roy's taunt. So basically, Marth's entrance pose(where he spins around) is what the beginning of it would look like, and after he spins, he then does his sheildbreaker charge animation. Thoughts?

Also, I don't know if this was suggested before, but what if we used Marth's d-smash animation(make sure you can't see his face), as one of Roy's victory poses? It looks slightly similar to his old Melee pose. And also, Ike's d-taunt and one of his victory poses is similar to Roy's as well.

 

[camelot]

^ The problem is, at the start of the entrance pose, he's floating, so if you used the taunt, the transition between animations would be really bad.

 

[BG3]

What about the suggested victory poses?

 

[camelot]

I could try out the d-smash thing, but the Ike stuff is impossible because we can't take animations from other characters (at least, not right now).

 

[Wander]

So anyone want to help me string those two animations together on one command?

 

[_Bankai_]

Hey Camelot, did you fix the forward scoot for neutral b on the ground?

@Wander: Oh, my bad man. Yeah I meant the pull back charging animation for shield breaker lol. But yah, I still agree with you on that one :D

 

[NxtGenFalco93]

i say wait on the up taunt and make it one of ikes when possible (my choice is either the one when he sticks the sword in the ground, and make fire come out of roy in it, or the one where he is holding his sword and have the same effect, not the one where he says "youll get no simpathy from me")

 

[_Bankai_]

@Camelot:

I have an idea for Marth's sword swing sfxs.

I was messing around with the home run bat, and its swinging sfx sounds pretty good. If we could apply that to Marth's swings and somehow increase the volume of the swing, that may serve as a good substitute for now.

Good job on the newest changelist :D

 

[Xis66]

Up B

Quik suggestion, can you make it so that Roys Up B goes outward instead of stead of straight up?

Since in Melee you could kinda control Roys if you held a (horizontal) direction it would effect the distance he'd go. Considering marth doesnt have any "control" over it in Brawl at all could you just make it so he goes slightly more forward to help his recovery this was one of my fav things about Roy in Melee.

 

[timothyung]

But you can make Marth's upB go more horizontal/vertical in Brawl

And I'm thinking that, using Marth's victory poses as idle animations, with some speed mods, might look good.

 

[NxtGenFalco93]

his victory poses look gay and he plays with his hair in his idle animation... i say they MUST go. speed mods wont make it look any less gay (no offense to marth i like playing as him but its true).

 

[SymphonicSage12]

girly =/= gay. how many times do I have to tell people this >.>

and straight guys touch their hair. you probably do it. you just don't know

 

[comboking]

Quik suggestion, can you make it so that Roys Up B goes outward instead of stead of straight up?

Since in Melee you could kinda control Roys if you held a (horizontal) direction it would effect the distance he'd go. Considering marth doesnt have any "control" over it in Brawl at all could you just make it so he goes slightly more forward to help his recovery this was one of my fav things about Roy in Melee.

You could also reverse it

 

[colored blind]

You look gay.

j/k, but he has a point. Roy is not the kind of person to be doing the same idle and victory animations as Marth.

Also, another thing I'd like to mention is the extent to which we feel complacent in Roy's balance and gameplay to the point that we're talking about his idle animation. Are we still playtesting it? Any major balance issues or complete domination matchups one way or another? I, unfortunately, no longer have access to B+ due to college, so I'm not sure how much input I'll be able to give.

 

[Shadic]

I'm just tired of it being used in a derogatory manner, honestly.

Also, maybe it's just me, but I'm having issues with actually getting his Side-B to work.

 

[NxtGenFalco93]

girly =/= gay. how many times do I have to tell people this >.>

and straight guys touch their hair. you probably do it. you just don't know

i dont i have a buzzcut so my hair is too short and roy is not the type of person who would anyway.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

>.> I agree that roy is not the type of person.

but guys that touch their hair aren't necessarily gay.

see me. I like a girl named Courtney, and I'm extremely worried about how my hair looks.

but anyways, nice job with the pac

 

[camelot]

Also, maybe it's just me, but I'm having issues with actually getting his Side-B to work.

The timing is different than Marth's, because of the speed changes. It doesn't take very long to get used to, though.

 

[NxtGenFalco93]

i think the ded is too slow its like slower than ike would have it. and the fsmash might want to be sped up abit too. i just played him and i felt like i was slower than ike. i want roy to be some where between ike and marth, not as slow as ike (no offense camalot).
@ symphonic sage- ok your right about the hair thing butstill it looks weird in a video game (especially a fighting game)

 

[crazy brawler]

The timing is different than Marth's, because of the speed changes. It doesn't take very long to get used to, though.

well i play roy for year in melee and i still can't get use of that timing or is it because it as a while i didnt play melee for a while

 

[_Bankai_]

Hey Camelot, did you fix the forward scoot for neutral b on the ground?

@Camelot:

I have an idea for Marth's sword swing sfxs.

I was messing around with the home run bat, and its swinging sfx sounds pretty good. If we could apply that to Marth's swings and somehow increase the volume of the swing, that may serve as a good substitute for now.

Good job on the newest changelist :D

his victory poses look gay and he plays with his hair in his idle animation... i say they MUST go. speed mods wont make it look any less gay (no offense to marth i like playing as him but its true).

Quote by Colored Blind:
Also, another thing I'd like to mention is the extent to which we feel complacent in Roy's balance and gameplay to the point that we're talking about his idle animation. Are we still playtesting it? Any major balance issues or complete domination matchups one way or another? I, unfortunately, no longer have access to B+ due to college, so I'm not sure how much input I'll be able to give.

Just bringing up stuff said b4.

Again, the forward scooting on grounded flare blade has to go.

As for the sfx idea, is that possible?

The idle animations have already been taken out, check the changelist. What remains to be changed are the victory poses and maybe the taunts. If anything, the only taunt that really needs to be changed is the down taunt.

Finally, Roy is still being playtested and such. I would say that he is much more balanced now than he was before. His forward smash seems a bit slower, which is similar to melee Roy's. Also, thanks to Camelot, his DED has been reworked nicely (it could be a tad bit faster, but it'll work as is). Right now, I'd say it is important to make Roy's sword feel heavier than his body, and so far it seems like Camelot is doing a great job of emulating that oh so familiar playstyle from Melee hehe.

 

[timothyung]

Leave the balancing problems to WBR members... camelot, you have done a good job, but we should leave the further tweaking on balance to GoG and leaf, they have more knowledge and experience than us. Of course you can do some cosmetic changes and make his Final Smash an entirely new attack.

EDIT:
Just tested the newest version of Roy. His sideB needs further tweaking. It's now much closer to the Melee counterpart, but it can be improved. Here's the data of DB and DED of Brawl Marth and Melee Roy:

[COLOR="Red"]Damage:
1st hit: 3-4%
2nd hit: 3-4%
2nd hit(up): 4-5%
3rd hit: 6-7%
3rd hit(up): 6-7%
3rd hit(down): 1-7% (Dependant on how many of the fire attacks hit the opponent)
4th hit: 5-8%
4th hit(up): 5-8%
4th hit(down): 2-6% (Dependant on how many strikes hit the opponent)
[/COLOR]

--F1
Total: 30
Hit: 4-7
Window for the next move: 15-?

[COLOR="Red"]--F1
Total: 29
Hit: 6-8
Window for the next move: 8-26
[/COLOR]

--F2
Total: 40
Hit: 6-10
window for the next move: 13-?

[COLOR="Red"]--F2
Total: 40
Hit: 14-16
window for the next move: 17-33[/COLOR]

--U2
Total: 38
Hit: 7-11
Window for the next move: 13-?

[COLOR="Red"]
--U2
Total: 40
Hit: 12-15
Window for the next move: 17-32[/COLOR]

--F3
Total: 44
Hit: 5-9
Window for the next move: 11-?

[COLOR="Red"]--F3
Total: 46
Hit: 11-14
Window for the next move: 16-37[/COLOR]

--U3
Total: 43
Hit: 5-9
Window for the next move: 15-?

[COLOR="Red"]
--U3
Total: 46
Hit: 13-17
Window for the next move: 18-37[/COLOR]

--D3
Total: 44
Hit: 6-8
Window for the next move: 11-?

[COLOR="Red"]--D3
Total: 46
Hit: 16, 18, 20, 22
Window for the next move: 23-35[/COLOR]

--F4
Total: 53
Hit: 10-15

[COLOR="Red"]--F4
Total: 50
Hit: 23-26[/COLOR]

--U4
Total: 49
Hit: 11-16

[COLOR="Red"]
--U4
Total: 50
Hit: 20-25[/COLOR]

--D4
Total: 64
Hit: 13-39

[COLOR="Red"]--D4
Total: 60
Hit: 13-15, 19-21, 25-27, 31-33
37-38[/COLOR]

As you see, the main difference is the window for the next move. Try recreating Roy's DED as close as possible. That's a very important move for Roy.

 

[Wander]

I'm working on his dtaunt and victory poses right now, just give me some time to test them.

 

[camelot]

Using that frame data, I made DED even more like Melee's. The speeds and frame windows should feel better.

Want me to post the .pac?

 

[timothyung]

Of course.
Yesz

 

[Wander]

...no! I'm already doing my taunt and victory mods on the last version of Roy. How many changes did you make to the DED, exactly? Anything you wouldn't mind repeating on my version once it's finished?

 

[camelot]

<here> it is.

@Wander, this was very annoying to get right, every slash has 3 or more speed changes, and window changes. Meaning it would take like a half hour to put on the one you made.

 

[timothyung]

Wander, you can just copy and paste your work to camelot's

 

[Wander]

...yeah, I could. I just hate that you can only have on PSA open at a time. Does anyone know if he's working on fixing that, or is it even possible?

 

[timothyung]

Wander, IDK. But he should be fixing that

camelot, you did a great job. The DED feels really like Melee-style now. Then you should proceed on changing the damage, the time the voice clip comes out, and maybe make Roy turn Red, Blue, and Green when using DED, like Melee, but the sword trails remain Red

EDIT:
After some more testing, I believe all hits of DED needs more BKB