Chaingrabbing: Is it right?

[#HBC | Joker]

Chaingrabbing: Is it right?

Yup

/end thread

 

[Arcansi]

I guess, but it just seems really weird to take my post in that context without reading on in the thread where I elaborate more why things do get banned when they do.

Well, that is exactly the point I was making.

Are you going to make a counterargument, or something of the sort?

 

[TheZizz]

How would that be anything like pointing out a wart?

Because it's a design flaw that any sensible person would eliminate if they had the opportunity. In other words, it's ugly.

 

[G-Dub]

Yo. "cheap" is a stupid adjective. Bottom line: dont get grabbed, if you do you were most likely outplayed, and will have to
Suffer the consequences.

 

[Osennecho]

Can I say no despite knowing full well it is fair especially given the level of skill required to do so?... Lol, nah CG's are legit, I just hate fighting IC's. But I'd rather fight them with various characters than other matchups so it's w/e.

 

[waldorf2007]

if you get CG'd by any character except ICs, they got an OP level of damage but they earned it and it's yours to take.
if it's ICs then if they pull it off they ABSOLUTELY earn their kill and you gotta hold that.
seems right to me
maybe the DDD infinites and yoshi infinites suck though.

 

[-LzR-]

The difficulty of the chaingrab is irrelevant. Such a horrible mindset.

 

[kismet2]

it's free percent of course it's right!

but these are things that can be avoided with smart play or having the character that you feel the most comfortable in those matchups. against good people you may not grab them as much but ics and falco have ways of building percents other than just chaingrabbing.

 

[FalKoopa]

As long as someone doesn't chaingrab all the time, it's fine.

 

[Diddy Kong]

and prove that grabs are better than using hammers.

Is it right? No.

Did the game include it? Yes.

It's basically the question: play to win, or not play to win?

Me, I'm much more comfortable stuffing bananas in people their faces whenever I can.

 

[SSBBDaisy]

Cging is gay. I'm hated in jacksonville cause I do it dgaf tho

 

[DewDaDash]

Is it right? I don't know about that, but does it give a tourney win? Yes.

Whether one is more difficult than the other doesn't matter since the same outcome occurs.

All I know is I'm gonna be using a lot more MK now, so let the gayness continue to the maximum.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

The difficulty of the chaingrab is irrelevant. Such a horrible mindset.

Traces of that is the right mindset to have. Watch any TA and you should realize that certain things are possible and other things are not possible. Where that threshold begins and ends is sort of fuzzy, but really useful for when it comes to determining when something is guaranteed or not.

ICs CG is possible. DDDs whacky turn-around standing CG is not something feasibly possible.

 

[TheAwesomefroggy]

Doing the chaingrab is FUNNN!

I never got why people hated getting chingrabbed either. I mean, I know they think it's bad cuz they can't do anything, but I don't mind it too much...

 

[Bartmanhomer]

Isn't chaingrabbing cheap?

 

[Airrider]

Of course it´s right if it makes you win.At least that´s how i think. If you´re in a position where it´s the best possible thing to do then of course i will do it. And i won´t call anyone doing it to me gay either.

 

[Orngeblu]

I think IC's chain grab is just ridiculous. Sure, they worked hard to learn it. But once they do, as LzR said that the difficulty is irrelevent, it's still ridiculous IMO. I frown upon any guy who chain grabs with IC's, really. Although, without chain grabbing with IC's...they do horrible.

I personally think it's cheap. I would never want to learn chain grab with IC's and play like that. But if I didn't, I would do horrible. If I were to main IC's, I'd probably learn the chain grab because I wouldn't be able to do anything without it. I never will main IC's though, no matter what. Lol.

All the pro players exploit their characters to the best of there ability anyways. Like Snake's DACUS and such.

 

[-LzR-]

I play ICs quite well imo and the cgs are not really a problem. It is indeed very dumb which is why I quit using them. I still don't see any reason to ban or limit them, but it is regardless dumb.

 

[Kink-Link5]

I think IC's chain grab is just ridiculous. Sure, they worked hard to learn it. But once they do, as LzR said that the difficulty is irrelevent, it's still ridiculous IMO. I frown upon any guy who chain grabs with IC's, really. Although, without chain grabbing with IC's...they do horrible.

I personally think it's cheap. I would never want to learn chain grab with IC's and play like that. But if I didn't, I would do horrible. If I were to main IC's, I'd probably learn the chain grab because I wouldn't be able to do anything without it. I never will main IC's though, no matter what. Lol.

All the pro players exploit their characters to the best of there ability anyways. Like Snake's DACUS and such.

Just learn to adapt and play the game in a way that avoids that kind of situation.

Without that kind of punishment threat, what do you have to worry about against Ice Climbers? Blizzard walls? lol

 

[Ussi]

Its dumb but in the game

IC have too many chain sequences that you can't ban them without banning grab follow ups which is just impossible lol.

You have to ban IC to ban their CG

 

[Luco]

Just learn to adapt and play the game in a way that avoids that kind of situation.

Without that kind of punishment threat, what do you have to worry about against Ice Climbers? Blizzard walls? lol

Yeah. It takes concentration, but it can be done and i've seen it done at top level play.

 

[Orngeblu]

Just learn to adapt and play the game in a way that avoids that kind of situation.

Without that kind of punishment threat, what do you have to worry about against Ice Climbers? Blizzard walls? lol

Honestly, I haven't really played many, maybe one person that uses IC's chain grab, so I don't really have any experience. It's just, once you're grabbed, they get a free kill. I guess I have to play more careful when fighting an IC's, but I hate that they can get such an easy kill.

 

[-LzR-]

You have no idea how hard it is to actually grab most people with ICs. Their grab is crap.

 

[Kink-Link5]

And again, without the threat of their grab (which IC's will be actively paying attention to attempt at any given chance), their gameplan consists largely of blizard walling to deal 7% and tossing out bairs and uairs to punish poor aerials, hoping in the process not to stale their bair to the point that it won't kill reliably. I know the game is extremely ground based, but when there are only two legal stages without platforms (Unless Delfino is still legal?), they deal worse with platforms than they did even in Melee.

 

[-LzR-]

Actually ICs are godlike with platforms.

 

[HoldeN HoT FiyA]

The thing is whenever someone plays with Ice Climbers is both players know the grab is coming, the audience knows the grab is coming, the people down the block know the grab is coming, etc. It does make you approach IC completely differently knowing that one slip up is pretty much an automatic stock off of you, but it can hurt the IC player as well if they are too focused on trying to get the grab. If that's all they do, and if you're playing smartly and spacing properly, then it just gives you more opportunities to punish them off a missed grab. It's the main reason many people who main IC play with them, but it can also have a negative psychological impact on their game if they keep thinking "Gotta get the grab, gotta get the grab!"

 

[ChickenWing13]

If it wasnt right I dont think Sakurai would've put it in the game.

 

[kyroN]

Vinnie lost APEX bro. We should obviously ban ZSS

 

[Blacknight99923]

I think part of what makes ic's so dumb when you fight them isn't just that grabbing you=stock but the fact that grabbing them a lot of times means a free punish.

The risk of shielding in the neutral basically means you lose the block option and you can't grab them either, so the only thing you have left is attack lmao.


(these are general statements, obviously there are situations you can grab/shield vs ice climbers)

 

[Kink-Link5]

You mean I have to initiate the offensive in a game? What a gyp.

 

[grizby2]

ice climbers are ALMOST a special case when it comes to chain grabbing.

i limit myself to chain grabbing 3 times in a row. why? because i know the person next to me is going to say ...
"wow.. really? REALLY now?" and its that type of phrase that comes out of a high level player's mouth that signifies that SOMETHING is wrong.

sure, NOT chain grabbing forces you to not play at the optimum level, we know that much. i dont even get that much gratification when i win that way, 'cause even though its rough to do at times, the match itself was too easy because of it. but theres that pride in knowing that you've achieved the level of reflexes needed to perform such a feat, especially in ice climbers' case. it takes practice and good timing, but to tell the truth it only resulted in my memorizing a few quick finger presses. it wasn't just practice anymore, it was instinct, its like those commands became natural to me. sigh... we're SO used to ice climbers' way of chain grabbing, that we almost expect it in smash 4.

im running my mouth off here, so i'll give my honest opinion to the creator of the thread.

it IS ok to have chain grabs, but ONLY if the opponent fails to use a means of escape that was available to them before the nexr grab succeeds.
chain grabs that DO NOT give escape options to the victim, well... those ARE unfair. imo

 

[Ponchojose0750]

Long chain grabs definitely suck, and I fight my way out of them fiercely. I've never been good at grabs, so I stick to ONLY 1 or 2 grabs in a row. Yes, I suck. And the guy above knows how often the super-armor effect gives him no stun but every percent of the damage from me fighting back.

Point is, I fight back the entire way instead of lying down like a pig to the slaughter, with percent damage in return for the bit of pain and helplessness. I say CG's are not right OR wrong to put in smash 4. It is an extension of the character and should be taken advantage of.

Good sportsmanship should be a trait picked up early on. If not, I'm gonna start laughing like a maniac and walk out the door looking for a REAL match. "Thank goodness it was just a gorilla!"

 

[Joaco]

Don't be a scrub, if you can do it (and it helps you to win), then do it.

 

[link2702]

Don't be a scrub, if you can do it (and it helps you to win), then do it.

get a % lead as MK and do his IDC for the remainder of the match.

I can do it, it helps me win.



not saying i think the IC's grab should be banned or anything, because after using em many times myself, i know fully well how difficult it is to both get a grab with em against someone who knows the matchup, and keep the timing up agaisnt em with it.


Still though, while certain things can certainly be done, and they most certainly help you win(or sometimes flat out guarantee you a win), doesn't always mean you should do it though.

lets just hope sakurai actually pays more attention to the balance in the next game.

 

[Joaco]

get a % lead as MK and do his IDC for the remainder of the match.

I can do it, it helps me win.



not saying i think the IC's grab should be banned or anything, because after using em many times myself, i know fully well how difficult it is to both get a grab with em against someone who knows the matchup, and keep the timing up agaisnt em with it.


Still though, while certain things can certainly be done, and they most certainly help you win(or sometimes flat out guarantee you a win), doesn't always mean you should do it though.

lets just hope sakurai actually pays more attention to the balance in the next game.

Have you ever won a tournament?

 

[peeup]

I hate that infinite CGs like all the billions of options that the ICs have are a thing. The game is supposed to be player vs player. When you land a grab as ICs it becomes player vs controller because it isn't a test of whether or not you can outplay your opponent, it's a test of whether or not you can do the right combination of buttons with no interference from anybody. On the other hand, it is a test of whether or not you can outplay your opponent when it comes to getting that grab.

I'm torn.

 

[Ponchojose0750]

Victory is one thing, but winning with COMPLETE honor and respect, to let a damned fierce opponent keep his fighting ability and not be cheap, that is something rare and pretty cool if you haven't experienced it. An unspoken agreement already known by the players. Of course, this should only apply to casual matches at home, tourneys are every man for themselves; there is no room for good conduct when it's serious. However, I'd expect to be alienated in some way for using what could easily look like a one-sided match based on one repeated inescapable move at an important event. I'd rather give rivals a hell of a scare without trapping them. It really sucks on the receiving end and no one wants that(unless you do want someone to CG you out of all stock and the good times end). I don't use IC often, but when I do, I suck and I don't CG. Maybe I'm being way too "moral" about it, but that's my style and I've won my fair share of small-town tourneys with grizby2, so it's not a bad path to learn tactics from another point of view: one of restriction. One side of this is clearly more home to me than the other, I guess "choose and die by your own ways"? Keep supporting your sides and try to have more fun than wins, it's an awesome game! One day I'll master the CG and see the damage it adds to my arsenal lol

 

[grizby2]

this just in, cool down times for grabs for smash 4 confirmed. *troll*

 

[Ponchojose0750]

aw HELL, time to mentally implode now. And no one ate dinner that night...