Castlevania Mafia - Game Over! Mafia and Traitor win!!!

[Swiss]

It is three.

 

[Xivii]

Vote: EdreesesPieces

 

[Swiss]

You know, Air.

If you're scum I'm gonna be so pissed that I let the newb card play me.

 

[Airgemini]

Scum hopefully has been lynched.

 

[Swiss]

Zen if you're scum. MVPMVPMVPMVP

GHEB LET ME KNOW THE TRUTH

 

[Xivii]

How did we all post at the same time o-o

 

[Xivii]

Nah Swiss I wasn't. But I won't be suprised if it's Air & Incom.

 

[Swiss]

If one flips town and we don't lose - lynch the other.

If one flips scum and we don't win - lynch Incom.

 

[Xivii]

*suspense*

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Day 4 Ends!

Edreeses Pieces (Death, Mafia Hitman) has been lynched!

Night 4 begins - send in all night actions until Thursday, December 2nd!

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Night 4 Ends!

Swiss (Alucard, Town-Aligned Forensic Investigator) has been killed during the night!

Day 5 begins!
With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch!
Not voting: InferiorityComplex, Airgemini, Zen.

 

[Airgemini]

Oh god.
So, obviously whoever scum is kept me alive because they knew I'd probably be the most suspected person today.

I think Zen is scum. If EP and Incom were mafia partners I highly doubt both of them would claim to be Vanilla Townies. That's really my only reason at the moment. I'll be rereading for connections.

No one vote at all.

 

[Airgemini]

Also with EP's tunneling on Incom early on I don't think that'd be a typical scum thing to do.
Zen has gotten by smoothly through the game from everyone thinking he's town. Although now I think he could be the one that's scum.

Obviously I'm not going to vote until I'm 100% sure.

 

[Airgemini]

Deadline is tomorrow. I'm going to vote incom.

Why did you switch from Incom to EP?

 

[Life]

@air:

If one flips town and we don't lose - lynch the other.

If one flips scum and we don't win - lynch Incom.

Don't worry your head off...

Anyway....

Mafia Hitman? That's... *lookup*
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Mos_Eisley
"1 Mafia Hitman. He is a normal Mafia Goon who can kill at night. He is not required to kill." (This is in a context with a Godfather who is not allowed to kill and no other scum.)
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Immunity_Mafia
"2 Mafia Hitmen (immune to Roleblockers, kills aren't stopped by Doc protects)"

So in other words, there's more than one thing a Hitman could be. Sigh.

Once I've had a little time to think about it I'll talk about the NK and what I think it means. But first, a look at the living.

There are three options here:

1. Me being scum. This would mean that "Mafia Hitman" is a framer (as we have a confirmed roleblocker) and that makes me the roleblocker. I'll let you two discuss this as I don't know if I'll be able to do so impartially.

2. Air being scum. This means that I was right and scum has no framer. Since scum has a confirmed roleblocker, that means EP would framer if one existed. Could "Hitman" be viably considered a framer?

3. Zen being scum. This means that "Mafia Hitman" is a framer, and that I'm not the roleblocker. Why is Zen town?

My initial gut feeling tells me it's Air, but I need time to analyze the NK first. And the fact that he's focusing on Zen and not myself bothers me a bit...

 

[Life]

Air: Why did Swiss see you visit Smargaret N1? Your answer may decide the outcome of the game.

 

[Life]

Also, unless Gheb is slacking with the PMs, I was NOT roleblocked last night.

 

[Airgemini]

I honestly have no idea. I can't visit anybody.
Since now I know that Swiss wasn't trying to set me up and that EP was lying (as I said he was), I think he might've been given random names or something. I don't know if there's a specific term for a role that gives mixed results, but I think that might've been what happened.

I really don't know how my name came up.

 

[Xivii]

So Air is leaning me, I'm leaning Incom, and Incom is leaning Air...

Oh god.
So, obviously whoever scum is kept me alive because they knew I'd probably be the most suspected person today.

This is an odd thing to say. All 3 of us alive are claimed Vanilla Townie, Swiss was the only claimed PR. So why would you think scum kept you alive to lynch you, rather than simply killing Swiss because he had a Power Role? Though I guess he could have simply been role blocked, but still I'm not seeing why you are saying this? If scum kept either me or Swiss alive, the two of us would have just lynched the third person. We both felt each other as town so scum would practically be committing scuicide to keep both of us alive as they would be the odd one out. Where as now, each of us 3 alive has a different opinion on is scum. So it's odd to me that you're coming out with this reason for why you are alive.

I think Zen is scum. If EP and Incom were mafia partners I highly doubt both of them would claim to be Vanilla Townies. That's really my only reason at the moment. I'll be rereading for connections.

No one vote at all.

What do you mean by this? Why wouldn't Incom and EP both claim VT as opposed to me and EP both claiming VT? You do realize I claimed VT as well?

Why did you switch from Incom to EP?

I would have lynched either. Air you really should reread at least yesterday and more if you can.

@Incom: What do you mean about being role blocked? You claimed VT so how could you be role blocked??

 

[Airgemini]

Oh wow do I feel stupid. I completely forgot about your claim.
I guess you can ignore the "them both claiming to be VTs". But still, EP's tunneling on Incom seems like he'd be drawing too much attention to his scum partner if Incom was his partner. Unless that was a early plan set for a situation like this.

 

[Xivii]

Facts:

-Swiss says he was roleblocked N3. Either his ability has an unknown fail rate or there is in fact a roleblocker. The latter more likely.
-Swiss seen both Air and EP targeting Smar's body.
-EP was mafia hitman.
-All 3 of us have claimed VT.

There are a few possibilities as to why both Air and EP were seen targeting Smar's body:

1. Air is lying about being Vanilla and has a Power Role.

I don't see why Air would lie about having a town PR so I'm leaving that out. Air if you do in fact have a town PR and lied about it, then I just don't even..
So scratching out Air having a town PR, Air could be have a scum or indy PR. In the scum scenario, I think it would be unlikely that both Air and EP would have targeted Smar N1 if they were planning to kill her. I can't really think of a role that would be useful on someone that wasn't going to live that scum would have. Unless it's like a role stealing ability or something.. Anyway I just don't think this is a likely scenario. As for an indy, I think that is a probable explanation. He could have some indy PR, maybe even role blocker. It would make sense as to why he and EP both targeted Smar as he wouldn't have known scum was going to target Smar. It also would make sense with the way he has been playing: making little connections and skimming/inactivity. Thinking about it, I really think this could be.

2. There is some sort of framer as Swiss suposed.

EP didn't flip framer. The only thing I know that a hitman does is that they are the one's that make the kill for mafia. I need to look at the links incom just posted though. So in this scenario that would mean either me or incom were a framer. But since EP didn't flip roleblocker, that would mean that we would also have to be a role blocker (or air). A mafia framer roleblocker sounds kind of farfetched and over powered, but I guess it's possible? I don't know, this scenario is sounding a little off to me now that EP has flipped.

3. Swiss unknowingly gets a false result along with his good result.

This seems pretty plausible to me. Though it kind of seems like town is pretty nerfed already with the limited PRs that have been shown. And especially if there is a scum roleblocker. So it's kind of wack if this is the case, but I guess it's still a fair possibility.

1 or 2 of us is lying. And that 1 is scum. I want to know what both of you guys think about these. Which ever of you is town, please put some thought into this. Today is do or die, and as much as I want to follow Swiss advice, we have to look at all the possibilities.

 

[Airgemini]

Well, first off I'm going to say I'm neither scum or Indy.
I think your framer idea sounds interesting. Particularly the one of Swiss getting a true result along with a false result. I've never heard of a frame role so it's new to me.

1 or 2 of us is lying.

Although not heavily significant, I find it weird that you say us when you're (I think) directing your post to me and Incom.

 

[Xivii]

Oh wow do I feel stupid. I completely forgot about your claim.
I guess you can ignore the "them both claiming to be VTs". But still, EP's tunneling on Incom seems like he'd be drawing too much attention to his scum partner if Incom was his partner. Unless that was a early plan set for a situation like this.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing with this. But yesterday EP all the sudden just dropped his suspicion on Incom based on weird reasons. The reasons he gave for changing his view on Incom were reasons I felt Incom was scummy which is why I thought it was odd. And now it kind of looks like EP and incom were just being distant in case either of them were lynched. And given that it was mylo dropped the suspicion in hopes to lynch someone else which would have been game. If you are town and EP and Incom are the scum team, the game would be over if you were lynched.

 

[Xivii]

I say 'us' because I'm speaking to the two of you. The one of you that is town is in the same perspective that I am in and doesn't know which of the other 2 is scum.

 

[Airgemini]

See, I forget things.
I should've remembered EP distancing himself from Incom yesterday. Bleh. I did find that weird that he suddenly changed his tunneling all of a sudden but didn't really comment on it.
I'll do a reread eventually, swearrrr. Times are tight. /:

 

[Xivii]

Also I forgot another possibilty. Air could be a miller or a gravedigger (I forgot which one, but one doesn't know that they have this role.) and is always seen guilty.

 

[Xivii]

Also, unless Gheb is slacking with the PMs, I was NOT roleblocked last night.

Seriously I don't get what you mean by this?? I don't think people are notified when they roleblocked. I could be wrong though. Were you roleblocked another time during the game, and notified? If so, why didn't you mention so before? I was under the idea that Swiss knew he was roleblocked because his actions didn't go through, not because he was notified that he was. So if people aren't notified of being roleblocked, they wouldn't know if they were targeted to be blocked if they were VT.

 

[Life]

I figured Roleblocker might randomly use their ability on somebody. Then again, that's unnecessary since we're all VTs (other than the hidden roleblocker).

NK thoughts coming up. Although there's a small chance I'll get interrupted and have to put it off.

 

[Life]

EBWOP: Not "randomly", per se, but more like "just for the sake of using it".

 

[Life]

CRAAAAAAP.

My post about the NK got deleted while I was trying to send it today. Grrr.

Anyway, I'll tl;dr it:

1. If Zen were scum, Zen should have shot Air, as both Zen and Swiss were leaning heavily towards me yesterDay and Zen could easily have won.
2. If Air were scum, he should have shot Zen, as Swiss was even more against me than Zen was. Air could have let Swiss control the discussion and simply agreed with his posts, coasting to victory.
3. #1-2 bothers me a crapload because it leaves me the only one with a motive to kill Swiss (unless RB didn't want to waste a roleblock [perhaps a one-shot roleblocker? Or one with some other limitation?]).
4. #3 leaves me between a rock and hard place; I'm going to search both your posts at some point and try to make cases.
5. I'm also going to search EP's posts again at some point. Since we now know for certain that he's scum, that may give us fresh perspective on his actions.

 

[Xivii]

Incom have you been roleblocked before (in any game)? What I'm saying is I don't think most mods usually PM someone if they have been roleblocked. Have you experienced this before, or are you just making the assumption? Also Incom you said Air's answer to your question could determine the game, but what did you get from it and what do you think of Swiss' result of Air visiting Smar now that EP has flipped to be scum?

 

[Airgemini]

I've been a roleblocker before and I'm pretty sure that the person who attempts to protect/investigate gets a PM saying their action failed. I think.

If not then it'd be pretty safe to assume that you've been roleblocked if your action doesn't happen.

 

[Xivii]

I see. If that's the case, a VT wouldn't get a PM anyhow.

 

[Life]

Never been roleblocked, but I thought anyone roleblocked got a PM saying they were targeted. This is my first game if you've forgotten (do people normally make it to 3-man LyLo first game?). FF6 (ongoing) was my second but I replaced out due to boredom.

I had some logic by which Air's alignment could have been determined from that post, but I forgot it. >_< In any case I don't think it was that good anyway.

As for Swiss' result on Air... Hrm. The more I think about it the more I wanna say it confirms Air's innocence, but I still think town's underpowered this game. But a role that guarantees knowledge of both scum by N2? That's kinda extreme.

Of course, from my perspective that leaves only Zen as a possibility, which is heartbreaking as I had a town read on you pretty much all game. Ugh.

Searching Zen's posts now...

 

[Airgemini]

Well, I've never been in a game where it's been down to three people so it might be uncommon but who knows.

Choosing who to vote is extremely frustrating. I want to say you're scum Incom, for your scum tells in the game, but I feel like Zen just played a really good scum game and slipped under everyone's radar. Honestly, I don't really see anything else we can do besides reread for now.

 

[Life]

My Zen post search turned into a partial reread. <.< Out of curiousity, what ARE my scumtells in your opinion? Because the more I think about it, the more I think Zen's the scum, and that puts the game in your hands.

EP flipped Mafia Hitman. This means that he's the one who visits the target's house for the NK, if I've got that right. Which implies that the other scum doesn't visit the target's house. Therefore, since you WERE seen visiting Smarg, you couldn't have been the Mafia Roleblocker unless you roleblocked him on the same night, which wouldn't make sense. And since Mafia Hitman has already been found, you're not mafia. Which means either I or Zen is the second scum. The hard part for me now is convincing you that Zen is the scum and not me. But it's getting late.

 

[Xivii]

Incom that's an interesting turn-a-round. It's seems to me you are just waiting for a leap on either of us.

As for Swiss' result on Air... Hrm. The more I think about it the more I wanna say it confirms Air's innocence, but I still think town's underpowered this game. But a role that guarantees knowledge of both scum by N2? That's kinda extreme.

You're forgetting the possibility that Air could be an independent. But you're right though, I think Air is more likely town, than you at least.

Choosing who to vote is extremely frustrating. I want to say you're scum Incom, for your scum tells in the game, but I feel like Zen just played a really good scum game and slipped under everyone's radar. Honestly, I don't really see anything else we can do besides reread for now.

I don't get what you mean you feel I just played a really good game and slipping under radars. I'm not sure why Swiss, X1, and others have seen me as town but I guess it's just because they see that I'm doing my best to catch scum. I don't understand why you think I'm scum because people have known me as town throughout the game.

My Zen post search turned into a partial reread. <.< Out of curiousity, what ARE my scumtells in your opinion? Because the more I think about it, the more I think Zen's the scum, and that puts the game in your hands.

EP flipped Mafia Hitman. This means that he's the one who visits the target's house for the NK, if I've got that right. Which implies that the other scum doesn't visit the target's house. Therefore, since you WERE seen visiting Smarg, you couldn't have been the Mafia Roleblocker unless you roleblocked him on the same night, which wouldn't make sense. And since Mafia Hitman has already been found, you're not mafia. Which means either I or Zen is the second scum. The hard part for me now is convincing you that Zen is the scum and not me. But it's getting late.

The thing is if EP and I were scummbuddies, the game would have been ended yesterday as that would mean you and Air would be town. Swiss was down with lynching either Air or EP. Swiss would have followed me if I pushed for an Air lynch. My, Swiss, and EP's votes or your vote would have lynched Air and me and EP as scumbuddies would have won the game. It would have been dumb on my part as EP's scumbuddy to set the lynch on him rather Air.


Incom if you do happen to be town please show me why you are and why Air is not. I really don't think Air is more likely to be scum than you are. It's difficult because both of you guys are so reserved.. but I think I need to stick with the read I had on Air throughout the game and my read on you. We've lynched 2 scum in a row now, and I've never gotten this close to being alive and winning as town. So if you ARE town please show me that you are. If I screw this up I'm going to hate myself forever >_<

Air I'm thinking that you are the town at this point, but I still have my doubts. If you are town than all I can say is that I am as well and that it would be a mistake to follow incom and lynch me. you have been wishy washy and inactive all game, but you haven't done anything particularly scummy to me, and I think so even more after seeing EP's flip. Where as Incom has been suspicious all game.

-Much of the game Incom's post have been focused on mechanics rather than scumhunting. His post #21 has been in my head since D1. It was basically a speculation post on how many scum could be in the game, and it was just weird. I think he made such a post because he knew how many scum there were and was trying to give off that he didn't know by "looking at all the possibilities". The reason why I think this is the case rather than really just trying to speculate is because he went far into posting an unlikely scenario such as there being 4 scum. Yes, this is his first game, but Incom, as he mentioned D1, has read through many other games and had a pretty good idea of how mafia works. It's further confirmed of his knowledge of mafia by the fact that he knew terms such 'FoS', 'EBWOP', and others (terms I didn't know into deep into my first mafia game). So based on his knowledge of mafia, it seems out of place for him to speculate something as extreme as there being 4 (3 I can understand, but I've been working on 2 pretty much all game as 3 is still alot) scum which really makes me think he was just trying to show that he was clueless about how many scum there were when really he knew.

-All game he has been over worried with what people thought of him even when people weren't calling him out for anything. I don't feel as town he would be this cautious of everything he did. As town, people aren't focused on what people think of them, they are focused on what they think of others. Where as scum is more focused on what people think of them and getting people to think things of others. Two major places Incom shows this is D1 when he kept announcing that he was leaving and that he woulld be back to post more later. I could see this as just noobie incom thinking that the discussion is always lie, but again I bring up his knowledge of the game and how he has read other games so he would know that discussion isn't always live. Plus of the fact that not everyone was online and posting all the time, and no one else was announcing that they were leaving and would bbl. This is why I think it was more scum incom being catious of people knowing if he was online or not. Another point of incom being unnecessarily cautious was during d3. Incom voted for glg early at put him at l-1, which shows that he wanted him lynched. Later on Swiss told him to unvote which he did. Then when the day was coming to end, incom refused to hammer glg and his reasoning was that if he did then people would think that he was scum. I think Incom as scum didn't want responsibility for being the hammerer of someone who he thought was town (as he wouldn't have know that glg was actually scum because he was a traitor). This is why I think he was willing to vote him earlier (putting him at L-1 , yet saying that he shouldn't be hammered), but not later when he would be the hammerer and thus be seen with more responsibility for the lynch.

-Most of the game I was speculating that if one of EP and Incom were scum then the other would be town, because of their back and forth. But looking back at it really looks more rehearsed/planned out. Incom and EP were both being seeing seen as scummy D1 as in Swiss' #99. As a scum team this would just be bad for them, which is why I think why they started distancing themselves from each other. It was immediately after Swiss stating suspicion of the both of them that EP first stated suspicion of Incom. And it was in response to Swiss asking who should be the play. From then on Incom pretty much targeted Incom which and I think it was to super distance themselves from each other because of the good possibility of at least one of them being lynched. They wouldn't want the other to be lynched consequentially. And as I mentioned before I think this is why Incom just randomly dropped his suspicion on Incom D4 for no reason. As it was lylo/mylo and simply lynching someone else would have won the game so there wasn't much more need for their distance.

-Incom's last post yesterday shows bus to me. Earlier in the day he wasn't certain on anything and actually like EP more than he had before. Then once me and swiss determined EP would be the play he suddenly get's certainty that EP is scum and it's looks so fake to me. Neither me or Swiss was even certain that we were making the right choice and Incoms sudden certainty makes me think it a last moment bus. And also why I think why he came into toDay targeting you Air, hoping that I would go along thinking him town for voting EP and you as scum for not. And seeing that I am not simply going along and think you he is scum rather than you, he is know turning to me in hopes to convince you, yet he didn't even read anything new or come out with why I would be scum.

So yeah I'm really thinking Incom over Air. There is still even more reasons why I think Incom to be the scum. Air I'd really like you to review though and tell me what you think. And please answer the questions that Incom asked you. I'm not voting until I know that you're making effort and are actually have reasoning for your thoughts rather than scum just waiting for me and Incom to vote each other. I

 

[Xivii]

Pretty sure there's a bunch of sp & grammar errors in that post, but I don' have time to proof read ~.^

 

[Airgemini]

I'll try to respond to everything tomorrow. Sorry if I seem dead, just a busssy week. /:

 

[Xivii]

Man you guys have both been posting in other places, but not here.

Well I guess Air's looks more like mod stuff but w/e. I think I'm pretty set on Incom. I just can't see him as being the town, and it doesn't look like he wants to show me wrong either, most likely because he can't. His play this game is far too murky to lynch Air over him just based off of inactivity alone. Air if you really do intend to continue reviewing and there's more for you to get then that's fine, otherwise I'm ready to just end the day. I'm close to certainty in this. If you do happen to be the scum then all I can say is kudos.