Castle Smash V Please come M2K! April 25th 2009. Centereach, NY. Brawl/Melee/S64/SF4

[Mr RavengerKarl]

yo enter scoop phase very fast kirin im the best gannon in riverhead oh nos

 

[DKwill]

Hey guys, I just created a facebook event for this tournament and sent out a bunch of invites to those that I think may be interested in attending. If any of you guys want to do the same, and let each of your friends now that you keep in touch with via facebook, just friend me on facebook through William Walsh. You guys should know what I look like by now ;p

 

[doommachine15]

yo buz we ain't teaming?

ROPE IS DEF THE BEST FALCO, He makes keitaro and D1 and myself look horrible!

 

[Dabuz]

yo buz we ain't teaming?

ROPE IS DEF THE BEST FALCO, He makes keitaro and D1 and myself look horrible!

yo man no, sorry but we ain't this time...


and rope, $20 mm!

 

[KirinBlaze]

OH **** GET ***** CHRIS. And you're Falco is already horrible.

 

[CJTHeroofTime]

CJT wanna team again. might was well as make it a regular thing.

Sounds good. Are you going ZSS again?

and rope, $20 mm!

Dabuz, withdraw that MM offer before its too late. I'd hate to see you cry at this thing after losing $20 and your dignity (although Im sure plenty of people there would love to see it)

 

[Dabuz]

Sounds good. Are you going ZSS again?



Dabuz, withdraw that MM offer before its too late. I'd hate to see you cry at this thing after losing $20 and your dignity (although Im sure plenty of people there would love to see it)

im like ****ing chris Brown, never scared! and im sure lots of people want me to lose, which would make it more fun!


edit: also, i don't think anyone here thinks i have dignity anyways...

 

[CJTHeroofTime]

edit: also, i don't think anyone here thinks i have dignity anyways...

At least you still have your $20. Quit while you're ahead.

 

[Punishment Divine]

YO DUDEEEEEEE

This place will be Tiki Action Arcade by the time this tournament comes!

 

[KirinBlaze]

YO DUDEEEEEEE

This place will be Tiki Action Arcade by the time this tournament comes!

LOL@THATNAME. Chris told me at the tourney in Hempstead today. I lol'd really hard.

GANONDORF? Too good.

 

[Sorto]

Dammnnnn it... Stop banning the ice climberss chain grabss...

 

[vanek_pi]

it blows i know. its not like were the street fighter community. DONT BAN ANYTHING. NO MATTER HOW GAME BREAKING IT MAY SEEM.

 

[Ryan-K]

it blows i know. its not like were the street fighter community. DONT BAN ANYTHING. NO MATTER HOW GAME BREAKING IT MAY SEEM.

akuma is a street fighter character and he's banned what are you talking about, people are alot more lenient in sf because the games are constantly patched and remade and ****, sf2 has like 7 different versions and sf3 has 3 obviously. SF4 is the best "first iteration" of a sf yet. sagat's a POS but capcom isn't stupid as balls like nintendo and they actually fix their games

also how is chris brown not scared of anything, he beat his girlfriend how the **** is that not being scared

jesus christ you people are eternally ****ed in the head

 

[vanek_pi]

yea i know they do ban things. but i'm refering more towards infinites and such.

 

[Ryan-K]

uh

what sf has had infinites...

-.-

 

[KirinBlaze]

Get ready for TIKI ACTION PARK! HYPE!

 

[Sorto]

Haha...Idk how wat i said spurred a SF argument but yea haha... Anyways, all I am sayin is that the Ice Climbers infinites shouldnt be banned. The Ice Climbers infinites aren't banned in the SBR ruleset for either Melee or Brawl. Wobbling in melee was a completely legal tactic. And even tho brawl is somewhat new, all of their chain grabs are considered completely legal according to the SBR ruleset. And obviously there infinites haven't become a game breaking tactic because they are well known in the smash community, yet the Ice Climbers only rank 15th on the tier list. If Ice climbers are so broken, that there tactics need to be banned, then what does that say about the 14 characters who rank above them. All Ice climbers have is there chain grabs. With perfect control, even non- infinite chain grabs can result in over 300% damage, ending with a smash, which is more then enough to be considered 0-Death. And yes, those non infinites are still inescapeable. You wouldn't ban MK down smash and shuttle loop, Snake's tilts, or even Falcos lasers and chaingrabs. Even though all those characters are considered to be the best in the game. But you would take a mid-tier character and remove the only tactic that they have. I don't know, sounds kind of unfair to me.

 

[CJTHeroofTime]

Sorto your post is so full of FAIL its not even funny.

The Ice Climbers infinites aren't banned in the SBR Reccommended ruleset for either Melee or Brawl.

Fixed.
Also, keep in mind that under that ruleset, the following stages are considered legit CPs:
Distant Planet
Green Hill Zone
Mario Circuit
Port Town Aero Dive

These rules are completely outdated.

Wobbling in melee was a completely legal tactic.

Where did you play that wobbling was legal after the first three months of its discovery...?

All Ice climbers have is there chain grabs. ... But you would take a mid-tier character and remove the only tactic that they have.

Yes. Their only tactic. Besides their crazy-*** desynchs and their mad comboing abilty, its their only tactic.

With perfect control, even non- infinite chain grabs can result in over 300% damage, ending with a smash, which is more then enough to be considered 0-Death. And yes, those non infinites are still inescapeable.

If the non-infinite chain grabs are so good, then WHY THE **** ARE YOU COMPLAINING?


All in all, if you think that Ice Climbers are still unplayable w/o chaingrabs, go learn someone else. TOCK used to main IC's, so when the CGs got banned he learned Bowser and started wrecking just as hard. And you know what? He whips out ICs every once and a while w/o CGs and still kicks ***.


BTW Tiki Arcade? What are they doing with the Castle exterior? And what of our beloved dogs?

 

[KirinBlaze]

BTW Tiki Arcade? What are they doing with the Castle exterior? And what of our beloved dogs?

Dog are gone, venue overall is much cleaner, nicer smelling and just a better place to hold a tournament then before. I also heard there's a flatscreen on the wall we can use to project matches or something like that.

 

[CJTHeroofTime]

Dog are gone, venue overall is much cleaner, nicer smelling and just a better place to hold a tournament then before. I also heard there's a flatscreen on the wall we can use to project matches or something like that.

Good stuff. Lame-*** name, but good stuff.

 

[KirinBlaze]

Good stuff. Lame-*** name, but good stuff.

I find the name to be quite amazing. It'll keep me laughing as I roam around shouting it throughout the tournament.

 

[DaiAndOh]

Dog are gone, venue overall is much cleaner, nicer smelling and just a better place to hold a tournament then before. I also heard there's a flatscreen on the wall we can use to project matches or something like that.

But will there be a Blazblue machine?

 

[vanek_pi]

tiki arcade. wtf.

 

[Sorto]

Sorto your post is so full of FAIL its not even funny.


Fixed.
Also, keep in mind that under that ruleset, the following stages are considered legit CPs:
Distant Planet
Green Hill Zone
Mario Circuit
Port Town Aero Dive

These rules are completely outdated.



Where did you play that wobbling was legal after the first three months of its discovery...?




Yes. Their only tactic. Besides their crazy-*** desynchs and their mad comboing abilty, its their only tactic.



If the non-infinite chain grabs are so good, then WHY THE **** ARE YOU COMPLAINING?


All in all, if you think that Ice Climbers are still unplayable w/o chaingrabs, go learn someone else. TOCK used to main IC's, so when the CGs got banned he learned Bowser and started wrecking just as hard. And you know what? He whips out ICs every once and a while w/o CGs and still kicks ***.

First off, I know that the SBR ruleset for brawl is outdated, that is why I mentioned Wobbling and the SBR ruleset for melee. And wobbling in melee was never banned in bigger tournaments or by SBR. Check the ruleset: http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Tournament_legal_(SSBM).

Secondly, I do agree that desynching creates many good approach tactic, but it is easily out done by higher tier approaches. And any projectile screws with a desynched ice climbers approach instantly. Regardless, you would be lying if you said that chaingrabs weren't a big part of the Ice Climbers game. If you ban snakes tilts, sure he can still be played, but you took away his best options and he will get massacred when it comes to matches with harder opponents.

Thirdly, I made mention of there other chaingrabs to inform everyone that they can still 0-death opponents without doing anything that is considered infinite. But why should someone who spent time learning advanced techniques have to switch his techniques when they will achieve the same result and are started in the same way. If I grab you and 0- death you, why should it matter if I used foward throw or back throw? You still cant escape it and it still leaves you with one less stock. Plus, lets say I spend time to master this other chaingrab, whats to stop them from just placing on a ban it. Whats the point of learning a complex technique, if someone just doesn't allow it, because there ignorant and just dont think its fair?

And I hope that you are not tryin to question my skills as an Ice Climbers player. I am decently good and am only trying to defend a tactic that I believe to be fair. I mean, check the rules for this tournament if you don't believe me, I am the main reason they banned the grab. And I have met Tock, he is a cool dude. He knows me and can tell you that I am a decent Ice Climbers player. I met his friend Vee too, who plays Game and Watch, ask him what he thinks of my Ice Climbers.

Honestly, people without skill whine, because they lack the ability to avoid grabs. My friend plays a beastly G&w and I am lucky to get 3 grabs on him in one match. And he knows to avoid me because every grab I get will mean he has one less stock. He plays by the rules people with skill play by and that is, "Don't get Grabbed." And I shouldn't have to change my character because bad players can't avoid being grabbed.


* All I am really saying is this:
-There infinites and chaingrabs are a large part of there metagame
-The tactic is decently challenging to do perfectly and the timing varies from character to character.
-Any chaingrab they do can be turned into an infinite and with enough control even non-infinites can become 0-Death. So if the result is the same and it isn't used for stalling, why should an infinite be banned, when a 0-Death isn't?
-In melee, similar tactics were considered completely legal by the SBR ruleset.
-It is not a broken tactic, since they have a small grab range, average grab start up, slide a large distance when trying to sheild grab and have decently large lag on a missed grab. And infinites can not be done without a nana.
- Even with this tactic being considered legal they only rank 15th on the tier list. So it can not be considered broken.
-Just "Don't Get Grabbed"

 

[Dabuz]

i don't see why this is an issue, while ic cgs are cheap and annoying as **** i remember maining ics, and without their cgs the ics lose alot of potential, especcially with mindgames, its not like a ddd who can always grab you at least once per match, ics can be stopped from using cgs easily due to slow grab, horrid grab range, abusing the computer player, and even then it requires a lot of skill to master the timing, while it is annoying and cheap to do its the players fault for getting grab by ics who against smart players will need to do a lot of work for that grab, ics cgs are cheap and annoying but not broken and worthy of ban

 

[KirinBlaze]

But will there be a Blazblue machine?

I cannot say for sure. Doommachine would know more then anyone.

 

[Ryan-K]

allow chaingrab and dont let them infinite.

 

[Sorto]

allow chaingrab and dont let them infinite.

While what you are saying makes sense in theory and works with characters like DDD, due to there specific limitations, it doesn't work in terms of ice climbers. An ice climbers foward throw chain grab is not infinite, because it must end at the end of the stage. Yet with proper timing an ice climber can do a foward throw chain grab without even taking a step. Now, ofcourse, if they never took a step then the grab would be infinite. But lets suppose they only took a single step every time Popo, got the grab. Then they would take one step for every two throws. They would barely move anywhere and would easily rack on more then 100% damage by the time they reached the end of the stage (starting from the center of the stage). At the end of the stage they could charge a foward smash and get a kill. Now lets suppose an ice climber grabbed you at the edge of the stage, facing towards the end of the stage. They could throw you backwards and then start a non-infinite foward throw chain grab going the other way. This is still not infinite but will still result in a death. You should not limit there chain grabs because it is part of there metagame. And just because a throw isn't infinite doesn't mean it wont result in a 0-death. Since the only real problem is 1 grab = -1 stock, infinites and non-infinite chain grabs should be allowed as long as they arent used to stall a match

 

[Ryan-K]

ok so then don't do that either

you're just arbitrarily saying "this **** that falls into x category actually doesn't fall into x category"

let's make this simple for simpletons ok?

answer this

does the chaingrab not end?
if: answer is yes
dont allow

if: answer is no
allow

stop making it more complex than it should be just because you're trying to find stupid loopholes for your characters, ICs are good now stop *****ing about random stuff

if you want ic infinite then let ddd do infinite, you can't just allow one and not the other just because someone decides "oh wait this character is better". character bias is stupid no matter who it's towards.

 

[CJTHeroofTime]

First off, I know that the SBR ruleset for brawl is outdated, that is why I mentioned Wobbling and the SBR ruleset for melee. And wobbling in melee was never banned in bigger tournaments or by SBR. Check the ruleset: http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Tournament_legal_(SSBM).

Secondly, I do agree that desynching creates many good approach tactic, but it is easily out done by higher tier approaches. And any projectile screws with a desynched ice climbers approach instantly. Regardless, you would be lying if you said that chaingrabs weren't a big part of the Ice Climbers game. If you ban snakes tilts, sure he can still be played, but you took away his best options and he will get massacred when it comes to matches with harder opponents.

Thirdly, I made mention of there other chaingrabs to inform everyone that they can still 0-death opponents without doing anything that is considered infinite. But why should someone who spent time learning advanced techniques have to switch his techniques when they will achieve the same result and are started in the same way. If I grab you and 0- death you, why should it matter if I used foward throw or back throw? You still cant escape it and it still leaves you with one less stock. Plus, lets say I spend time to master this other chaingrab, whats to stop them from just placing on a ban it. Whats the point of learning a complex technique, if someone just doesn't allow it, because there ignorant and just dont think its fair?

And I hope that you are not tryin to question my skills as an Ice Climbers player. I am decently good and am only trying to defend a tactic that I believe to be fair. I mean, check the rules for this tournament if you don't believe me, I am the main reason they banned the grab. And I have met Tock, he is a cool dude. He knows me and can tell you that I am a decent Ice Climbers player. I met his friend Vee too, who plays Game and Watch, ask him what he thinks of my Ice Climbers.

Honestly, people without skill whine, because they lack the ability to avoid grabs. My friend plays a beastly G&w and I am lucky to get 3 grabs on him in one match. And he knows to avoid me because every grab I get will mean he has one less stock. He plays by the rules people with skill play by and that is, "Don't get Grabbed." And I shouldn't have to change my character because bad players can't avoid being grabbed.


* All I am really saying is this:
-There infinites and chaingrabs are a large part of there metagame
-The tactic is decently challenging to do perfectly and the timing varies from character to character.
-Any chaingrab they do can be turned into an infinite and with enough control even non-infinites can become 0-Death. So if the result is the same and it isn't used for stalling, why should an infinite be banned, when a 0-Death isn't?
-In melee, similar tactics were considered completely legal by the SBR ruleset.
-It is not a broken tactic, since they have a small grab range, average grab start up, slide a large distance when trying to sheild grab and have decently large lag on a missed grab. And infinites can not be done without a nana.
- Even with this tactic being considered legal they only rank 15th on the tier list. So it can not be considered broken.
-Just "Don't Get Grabbed"

First off, I wasn't whining. I can take the IC's with or without their infinites. ROBs more than well equipped to separate the climbers, not to mention a laser offstage will gimp Nana almost 50 percent of the time. I could care less if they were legal. MM me. Second of all, I wasn't debating whether ICs infinites should be banned or not. If you check my post, I was attacking your reasoning, not the legality of the technique. Not once did I say whether or not they were broken. I personally think that the CGs are badass; I think players that can do them deserve respect. TOCK can attest to that. I think the difficulty of the technique makes up for the fact that its inescapable. My problem was that you were making it seem like the ICs were unplayable without the CGs, which is far from the truth. And citing the SBR ruleset never really helps any argument. In this post, you made more valid points that I dont really disagree with (except for the whole single step CG, which I personally feel falls into the same category as DDDs small step CG).
And by the way, no, I wasnt questioning your ability as an ICs main. I saw your match against Vee btw, it was a good match.

All in all, I don't particularly care if the CGs are legal or not. I know that many people may be upset if they were, but I could care less. Just don't say that the Ice Climber's are unplayable without their infinites. Because they're not.




Edit: Are texture hacks allowed at this? Cause quite frankly, texture hacks are the ****.

 

[blackanese]

that IC nugguh talks 2 much lmfaoo

 

[KnightMare516]

ima team with problem most likey anyone else down tho incase?

 

[Sorto]

ok so then don't do that either

you're just arbitrarily saying "this **** that falls into x category actually doesn't fall into x category"

let's make this simple for simpletons ok?

answer this

does the chaingrab not end?
if: answer is yes
dont allow

if: answer is no
allow

stop making it more complex than it should be just because you're trying to find stupid loopholes for your characters, ICs are good now stop *****ing about random stuff

if you want ic infinite then let ddd do infinite, you can't just allow one and not the other just because someone decides "oh wait this character is better". character bias is stupid no matter who it's towards.

I totally get where your coming from. What I am saying is: "I believe that Ice Climbers 0-Death chaingrabs should be allowed. In terms of Ice Climber chain grabbing: ANY grab/throw they do can technically be turned into a 0-death chain grab with the exception of upthrow. " Chain grabs a large part of how they are supposed to be played. I took the time to learn there infinites. And good enough players can avoid being grabbed by the ice climbers (they have bad grab range, perfect shielding ends with a hit on nana, they have slow grabs, and bad lag after missed grabs). Why should I be punished and not allowed to use a technique I spent time learning because certain players don't know how to space right or can't gimp a cpu? It is not like Ice Climbers don't have a giant weakness of there own, with a CPU controlled player, infinites just helps to even the odds.

The only real way to limit there chain grabs is to put a limit on the amount of throws that can be done in a row during a chain grab, but even that has a few loopholes

And DDD's infinite doesn't bother me, but you would have to convince everyone else here that it should be legal haha.

 

[Fyist]

@Sorto the bthrow infinite is pretty lame and I could care less if its ban at the tourney or not. Everyone is gonna stick with it being ban cause they are afraid to fight against it... soooo its not getting changed in other words.

Bowser and Ike in low tiers... NOWWWWWWWWWW

 

[Sorto]

I understand that they will most likely keep it banned Fyist. But I am doing this so that perhaps one of the tournament runners might make a comment and explain to me why they think it is fair to ban the infinite. And I am looking for something more than just it is broken or unfair. I want them to explain to me why it is broken or unfair. And perhaps after they see that there only explanation for banning it, supports bad players, they may consider unbanning it. Since I have commented about the ban on this thread, many players, who often go to castle golf tournaments, such as yourself, have stated that the chain grab should be allowed or at the very least, they would be willing to fight against it. Very few players have flat out said that it is broken and should be banned. So whose interests are Will and Chris looking out for when they ban the ice climbers infinite? Good players like Dabuz, Fyist, and CJT are all willing to have it be legal, so whats the problem?

 

[Dabuz]

the problem is the same as why no one likes fighting MK and calls him broken, people don't want to learn to try and fight something that takes experience to beat, so people just label the MK and the cgs as cheap and and ban worthy because of lack of experience and knowledge to beat it, i mean, look at all the matchups, most characters except for the lower tiers like ganon or bowser don't have trouble fighting good ics with cgs if they are smart and experienced, thats because all characters can counter it for the reasons 3 posts above, heck, MK is so much worse than ic cgs and yet he ain't banned so i don't see why the ics cgs are, Sakurai put in the ic cgs for a reason

 

[Fyist]

the problem is the same as why no one likes fighting MK and calls him broken, people don't want to learn to try and fight something that takes experience to beat, so people just label the MK and the cgs as cheap and and ban worthy because of lack of experience and knowledge to beat it, i mean, look at all the matchups, most characters except for the lower tiers like ganon or bowser don't have trouble fighting good ics with cgs if they are smart and experienced, thats because all characters can counter it for the reasons 3 posts above, heck, MK is so much worse than ic cgs and yet he ain't banned so i don't see why the ics cgs are, Sakurai put in the ic cgs for a reason

Sakurai also put tripping in. We all know that he doesnt give 2 ****s about this game being played in tournaments.

 

[Ness_success]

Cjt is this rope guy really that good?

 

[KirinBlaze]

No. They just hype him up. I mean he's not bad, just not as good as all of his friends make him out to be.

 

[Dabuz]

Sakurai also put tripping in. We all know that he doesnt give 2 ****s about this game being played in tournaments.

...****, now my entire post is ruined...just by tripping...