• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
27,766
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
mookierah, that depends on part on whether they DI up and where they are when you hit them. i can get it on spacies around ko percents and marth/sheik mid percents but it's specific to situations and kinda read based

and FE_hector that depends on my health but it seems to be improving again. i have no projection based on my current feelings and it doesn't help im still sick from genesis lol so more confusing to tell =p
 

Siccamende

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
22
Location
Quebec, Canada
NNID
Siccamende
I hope you feel better Dr Peepee Dr Peepee ! Actually, I would like to ask you a question. What are your thoughts of learning the game from the basic way of movement as Marth (Dash Dance, Grab, Dtilt) and keep adding moves and techniques once you've master them/feel satisfied? I think it would be extremely helpful to players that want to develop a pretty solid neutral pretty early. I want to do it, but I want to be sure this wouldn't be a waste of time. Thanks!
 

FE_Hector

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,420
Location
Raleigh, NC
I hope you feel better Dr Peepee Dr Peepee ! Actually, I would like to ask you a question. What are your thoughts of learning the game from the basic way of movement as Marth (Dash Dance, Grab, Dtilt) and keep adding moves and techniques once you've master them/feel satisfied? I think it would be extremely helpful to players that want to develop a pretty solid neutral pretty early. I want to do it, but I want to be sure this wouldn't be a waste of time. Thanks!
Obviously I'm not the one this was for lol, but I personally think that you should get at least the fundamentals of the punish and edgeguarding games down first and THEN start working on your neutral sincerely. Fundamental punishes and edgeguards can take you really far, and I feel that you should work on your neutral then. Your idea for developing the neutral sounds really good to me.
 

Siccamende

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
22
Location
Quebec, Canada
NNID
Siccamende
Obviously I'm not the one this was for lol, but I personally think that you should get at least the fundamentals of the punish and edgeguarding games down first and THEN start working on your neutral sincerely. Fundamental punishes and edgeguards can take you really far, and I feel that you should work on your neutral then. Your idea for developing the neutral sounds really good to me.
Obviously I know that the punish game is extremely important, and I feel as though it's above average at my level imo. The way I came up with this plan was when I was playing Netplay and a player who was really good told me that I had many habits. He explained that the smartest way to get rid of those habits is to restart everything from the beginning; only using Dash Dancing, D-tilt and grab. Once I had perfected those techniques, I can add F-air, Wavedashing, N-air, etc. When I tried what he said, the neutral felt way more progressive and more clear to me.
 

FE_Hector

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,420
Location
Raleigh, NC
The neutral kinda is like that, to be honest. I like the progressive idea of how to develop the neutral game, but my only real warning is to be sure that you understand how all of them work in tandem once you hit the end so that you don't have too many things to go back and polish. I mean, as long as you get to the same endpoint as everybody else, I don't think that your path makes too big of a difference.
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
27,766
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
You also need Fair. I don't think that's bad so long as you really think about how the tools work on their own, individually, and together. When you learn how to use those best you can add more things. Honestly it matters way more you understand each individual move and how it matters to Marth more than any certain strategy like that.
 

Siccamende

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
22
Location
Quebec, Canada
NNID
Siccamende
You also need Fair. I don't think that's bad so long as you really think about how the tools work on their own, individually, and together. When you learn how to use those best you can add more things. Honestly it matters way more you understand each individual move and how it matters to Marth more than any certain strategy like that.
That's exactly what I was trying to push for. Once I have a full understanding of each move, which will take a bit, I'll move on adding more techniques until I personally have a clear, full plan of what neutral means to me. It's also personally good to practice these moves and execute them properly in situations and then adding more will allow me to mix up my game, you know?
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
5,384
Location
Umeå, Sweden
mookierah, that depends on part on whether they DI up and where they are when you hit them. i can get it on spacies around ko percents and marth/sheik mid percents but it's specific to situations and kinda read based
I'm aware about DI, and I generally would up throw spacies and Falcon at percents that I know could set up for this. I was just wondering if anyone knew a rough estimate of the percentages in which this can work so I can practice that 'range' and optimize my responses.

EDIT:
That sucks to hear that there was something going around Genesis and now a lot of people are sick. Hope you guys take care of yourselves.

Siccamende Siccamende
The neutral game is kinda a weird aspect of the game. You have to understand it, as well as all of the things going on before you are good at it. This goes beyond simply understanding things on paper, it has to make sense in your head too. I think your idea of keeping it simple and working from there could work well, but the most important thing is to focus on actually making real decisions. Don't allow yourself to simply auto-pilot and do whatever, you won't grow this way. Force yourself to actually make choices, even if it slows you down (and it definitely will at first) and if you keep working on that, you'll get there no prob.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
30
PP, how do you mentally balance the fear of losing and the desire to win? I feel like I lose a lot of sets because I'm afraid to lose more than I am wanting to win and it shows in my play, I start panicking more and playing more defensively and safe. I don't know how to always play to win.
 

BlueX

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
8,304
NNID
ukgh01
3DS FC
3325-4567-0562
PP, how do you mentally balance the fear of losing and the desire to win? I feel like I lose a lot of sets because I'm afraid to lose more than I am wanting to win and it shows in my play, I start panicking more and playing more defensively and safe. I don't know how to always play to win.
I know this question is not for me but what i think you should do is to try to relax and figure out your opponent strategy and win. This is really important as if you constantly always worry then you will struggle to play well. It is really vital to be able to think and play well if you do want to win.

EDIT: Have you read this? http://smashboards.com/threads/drastic-improvement.311129/
 
Last edited:

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
5,384
Location
Umeå, Sweden
DuckPimp DuckPimp
Thanks xD. I'm glad you enjoyed that old silly vid. Do you by chance know if a version of it exists without the music ripped from it?

Dr Peepee Dr Peepee
So I've got an issue I need to work on, and I'm sure it's a fairly common one. How do you deal with players that, after techs, buffer a spot dodge? I missed a ton of grabs and got jacked up for it, and I honestly felt this was one of the definitive differences between myself and my opponent yesterday. Now, I know the obvious thing is to delay, and even in my matches yesterday against this guy I began to adapt by using shield stop nairs to punish this, but I only had the presence of mind to do that maybe 30% of the time.

I'm not so much concerned with the options I have to exploit it, but more so the ways you go about fixing a habit mid-match or in training beforehand. My plan is to simply practice my tech chasing in 20XX, but simply focus on identifying during the chase whether or not they could spot dodge my grab. Do you think this is a solid way to deal with this, through proper conditioning, or do you have better tips/tricks?
 
Last edited:

Darktruite

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 23, 2015
Messages
5
Location
Strasbourg,France
Hey PP,i would like to know if you have a rule to know in which cases you should pummel or not ?
I know that a pummel around 20 % is useful to prevent a shine against fox / falco but isn't there a threshold at which
1-N pummel can be done without fear of any disruption ?
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
27,766
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
Thanks BlueX, yeah I've read it but it's probably time for a reread lol
So did this work?

DuckPimp DuckPimp

Dr Peepee Dr Peepee
So I've got an issue I need to work on, and I'm sure it's a fairly common one. How do you deal with players that, after techs, buffer a spot dodge? I missed a ton of grabs and got jacked up for it, and I honestly felt this was one of the definitive differences between myself and my opponent yesterday. Now, I know the obvious thing is to delay, and even in my matches yesterday against this guy I began to adapt by using shield stop nairs to punish this, but I only had the presence of mind to do that maybe 30% of the time.

I'm not so much concerned with the options I have to exploit it, but more so the ways you go about fixing a habit mid-match or in training beforehand. My plan is to simply practice my tech chasing in 20XX, but simply focus on identifying during the chase whether or not they could spot dodge my grab. Do you think this is a solid way to deal with this, through proper conditioning, or do you have better tips/tricks?
Well if it's Falco teching away after an Fthrow/Dthrow you might not be able to make it in time regardless of practice if he can go full distance. Besides that, yeah you need to practice it.

However, tech chasing is hard and backup plans/alternate strategies are good. SH'ing to cover 3/4 tech chase options is good. Spacing for a tipper if you are late is good. Baiting the spotdodge and hitting/grabbing is good. You can practice these setups and relative percents and positions on the stage too thanks to the save state function of 20XX(you could've done it without it but it's more tedious). The nice thing about alternate tech chase strategies is if you switch between a 2/4 and another 2/4 as the tech happens the opponent won't know and you can get more reward if you're right.

Basically what I'm saying is practice regrabs and alternate strategies and be good at both.

Hey PP,i would like to know if you have a rule to know in which cases you should pummel or not ?
I know that a pummel around 20 % is useful to prevent a shine against fox / falco but isn't there a threshold at which
1-N pummel can be done without fear of any disruption ?
Kadano surely has useful information about this so I would ask him too.

I generally do one pummel in the 20s and I feel safest doing one pummel in the 30s. Maybe in the 50s you can get away with 2 pummels or 2 in the 40s if they don't try to mash right away. That's just my general feel of it and might not reflect what can happen vs a typical always mashing opponent. I tend to notice people mash more or less the more or less you pummel though because it's a human game and why waste energy *shrug*
 
Last edited:

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
5,384
Location
Umeå, Sweden
You can practice these setups and relative percents and positions on the stage too thanks to the save state function of 20XX(you could've done it without it but it's more tedious now). The nice thing about alternate tech chase strategies is if you switch between a 2/4 and another 2/4 as the tech happens the opponent won't know and you can get more reward if you're right.
Gotcha, and yeah, I have been abusing the save state feature since it came out. It's... ridiculously good for training.
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
30
So did this work?
Sort of, the guide says that in order for drastic improvement to happen you have to play to learn instead of always playing to win. I admit that when I am in a bad mindset the last thing on my mind is learning but I think playing to win isn't my problem I think it's playing to not lose.

The real problem I think is that I am thinking too much in general lol. I'm trying to learn how to just quiet my conscious brain and let my subconscious/muscle memory do it's thing.
 
Last edited:

Kopaka

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
268
Location
San Diego
Sort of, the guide says that in order for drastic improvement to happen you have to play to learn instead of always playing to win. I admit that when I am in a bad mindset the last thing on my mind is learning but I think playing to win isn't my problem I think it's playing to not lose.

The real problem I think is that I am thinking too much in general lol. I'm trying to learn how to just quiet my conscious brain and let my subconscious/muscle memory do it's thing.
I've found success in telling myself during clutch last-stock last-game situations to focus on the now instead of imagining the outcome of the match, win or lose. Just little general reminders or phrases like "Ok, what could I be doing differently this stock?" Work the mind more positively than "Ok, don't get grabbed...don't get grabbed..."
 

FE_Hector

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,420
Location
Raleigh, NC
Sort of, the guide says that in order for drastic improvement to happen you have to play to learn instead of always playing to win. I admit that when I am in a bad mindset the last thing on my mind is learning but I think playing to win isn't my problem I think it's playing to not lose.

The real problem I think is that I am thinking too much in general lol. I'm trying to learn how to just quiet my conscious brain and let my subconscious/muscle memory do it's thing.
I think it's probably more that you need to find a balance therein. You should be fully prepared to react to what they do (conscious brain), but you shouldn't think too much about techskill (muscle memory/subconscious). If you're chaingrabbing somebody, let your conscious react to their DI and your subconscious just get the grab timing. Figure out what you should actively be focusing on and let everything else just be second nature.
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
30
Kopaka Kopaka Yeah i think you're right and I definitely practice this mindset but it has messed me up if I try to make changes that far into the match.

FE_Hector FE_Hector Tech skill really isnt the big issue, it's more like my dash dances start getting more simple and my mix ups get more readable. For example I just lost a set to a Marth where I basically lost two stocks just becuase I kept on jumping out of the marth uthrow and he kept on reading it.

ugh mindset just takes time i think.
 
Last edited:

BlueX

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
8,304
NNID
ukgh01
3DS FC
3325-4567-0562
FE_Hector FE_Hector Tech skill really isnt the big issue, it's more like my dash dances start getting more simple and my mix ups get more readable. For example I just lost a set to a Marth where I basically lost two stocks just becuase I kept on jumping out of the marth uthrow and he kept on reading it.

ugh mindset just takes time i think.
Assuming you already know how to do DD D-tilts but you can dashdance into quick moves that have low start up. Mixing up your options is really vital if you don't want to be predicable. Expand your choices when dashdancing, think about the situation and what is the best option for that situation.
 
Last edited:

Kopaka

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
268
Location
San Diego
That's really what this game comes down to lol. Having a strong mindset, intentionally incorporating a lot of mixups, and quickly adapting to your opponent is NOT something learned quickly whatsoever. I actually think it's one of those things you can never perfect.
It's certainly not easy. It takes constant, consistent focus and drive if you truly believe your mindset and how you react to losing is holding you back. The best advice I've ever been given before going into a set that my ego wanted to win, was "Just play it like any other game, you know, you don't have to win this to defend your pride (The pride thing was a major statement that struck with me)."

Re-branding your desire to learn and win can be very difficult if you're fighting the "My ego needs to win this match" part of you. You can feed your ego as much as you want by winning sets in locals, but be honest with yourself; Who is going to remember that one time you beat that one player at that one local? You'll get your 15 minutes of fame, but if you're not actively playing to improve with each set, you're going to most likely have that one win, and nothing more. I've come to realize each set of Melee is like a test where every question and variable is going to be different. One one day you might beat the test that Ranked Player #12 is going to give you, for whatever reasons that may be, but Ranked Player #12 is good enough to throw you other tests on other days you're not prepared for because you haven't built your focus and adaptability to new tests and new questions.

I'm still working on this too for sure. It's hard, but definitely do-able and must be done if you're willing to improve.
 
Last edited:

FE_Hector

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,420
Location
Raleigh, NC
It's certainly not easy. It takes constant, consistent focus and drive if you truly believe your mindset and how you react to losing is holding you back. The best advice I've ever been given before going into a set that my ego wanted to win, was "Just play it like any other game, you know, you don't have to win this to defend your pride (The pride thing was a major statement that struck with me)."

Re-branding your desire to learn and win can be very difficult if you're fighting the "My ego needs to win this match" part of you. You can feed your ego as much as you want by winning sets in locals, but be honest with yourself; Who is going to remember that one time you beat that one player at that one local? You'll get your 15 minutes of fame, but if you're not actively playing to improve with each set, you're going to most likely have that one win, and nothing more. I've come to realize each set of Melee is like a test where every question and variable is going to be different. One one day you might beat the test that Ranked Player #12 is going to give you, for whatever reasons that may be, but Ranked Player #12 is good enough to throw you other tests on other days you're not prepared for because you haven't built your focus and adaptability to new tests and new questions.

I'm still working on this too for sure. It's hard, but definitely do-able and must be done if you're willing to improve.
That's super intuitive and I completely agree. Obviously I can't speak for anybody else, but the biggest thing holding me back right now is a lack of regular locals. Hopefully that'll change soon, though.
 

BlueX

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
8,304
NNID
ukgh01
3DS FC
3325-4567-0562
Melee is like a puzzle game... that was said in the How to be GOOD at Super Smash Bros. video. Any sort of situations can happen in Melee anytime for what ever reason... this is why you should be prepared for what will happened and choose the right option for that situation. Melee is a very deep game and it would take a long time to explain every situation that could possibly happen and the game has so many options to choose too. Play to learn is the important thing to do if you are new to the game... don't focus on winning as you will keep messing up with that type of mindset. Play to learn.

Get the right mindset and you will improve.

 

FE_Hector

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,420
Location
Raleigh, NC
Any sort of situations can happen in Melee anytime for what ever reason.
And THIS is why people (myself included) need to be ready to tech at practically any time.

EDIT (2 days afterwards lol): Dr Peepee Dr Peepee one thing I've been noticing all around the more and more I watch your sets is a lack of ledgedashes, especially in situations that, at first glance could have been extremely advantageous for you had you simply ledgedashed. This is both as Marth and Falco, btw. Is it just that you don't like the risk-reward ratio of ledgedashing, as I think is most likely, or have you simply not practiced the tech enough to be completely confident with it?
 
Last edited:

Life

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
5,264
Location
Grieving No Longer
Alright, the tournament I'm going to just posted pools and my most likely sticking point in bracket is our local Yoshi. I'm a bit rusty with Marth (lolpm) but he's my best bet.

What are some things I should know about Marth-Yoshi? Only plans for right now are to expect DJC nair and shield drops and play accordingly. If I get a grab, where do I throw? How do I best kill Yoshi?

EDIT: Oh, and stages?
 
Last edited:

AirFair

Marth tho
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
1,972
Location
Houston, Texas
Hey guys, I just played a set vs a doc. When he would throw pills, I would shield because i didn't want to get hit by them.

I found myself getting locked down by pills in that way, and I didn't know how to deal with them, and doc would just wd and dsmash or grab.

How can I work around pills? They are so slow so I don't want to just stand and shield, but I don't want to dash back to the edge either. Should I be fairing them or jabbing them?
 

FE_Hector

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,420
Location
Raleigh, NC
Hey guys, I just played a set vs a doc. When he would throw pills, I would shield because i didn't want to get hit by them.

I found myself getting locked down by pills in that way, and I didn't know how to deal with them, and doc would just wd and dsmash or grab.

How can I work around pills? They are so slow so I don't want to just stand and shield, but I don't want to dash back to the edge either. Should I be fairing them or jabbing them?
To answer your last question: yes. Faring and jabbing the pills is actually exactly what I was going to suggest. Also, once you get a feel for the pill physics, you can simply choose to dash under pills a lot of the time.
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
27,766
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
EDIT (2 days afterwards lol): Dr Peepee Dr Peepee one thing I've been noticing all around the more and more I watch your sets is a lack of ledgedashes, especially in situations that, at first glance could have been extremely advantageous for you had you simply ledgedashed. This is both as Marth and Falco, btw. Is it just that you don't like the risk-reward ratio of ledgedashing, as I think is most likely, or have you simply not practiced the tech enough to be completely confident with it?
I don't do it unless I have to when I'm playing off because I'll be more likely to SD. Keeping the stock alive is more important than maybe getting a hit in this circumstance for my personal risk/reward evaluation. Also people bait edgedashes a lot so it's kinda anti-meta to find ways onstage without it anyway.
 

FE_Hector

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,420
Location
Raleigh, NC
Alright, that makes sense. IDK, it's just looked like it would have been the better idea to ledgedash a few times when you were playing against top-level spacies. But I mean, I'm still a bad player, so it's not like I can even be sure I'm right about that.
 

Sempai

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
614
Location
Wildwood/St.Louis, MO
I don't do it unless I have to when I'm playing off because I'll be more likely to SD. Keeping the stock alive is more important than maybe getting a hit in this circumstance for my personal risk/reward evaluation. Also people bait edgedashes a lot so it's kinda anti-meta to find ways onstage without it anyway.
Genius, something to consider since I practice ledge dashes more often than anything else lol.
 

FE_Hector

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,420
Location
Raleigh, NC
Genius, something to consider since I practice ledge dashes more often than anything else lol.
I think that ledgedashing is still SUPER useful, but it's something that you shouldn't use too much unless you're as consistent as a couple of Swedish Foxes that come to mind.
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
27,766
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
Genius, something to consider since I practice ledge dashes more often than anything else lol.
It's still very much worth practicing and having down. If you struggle to get it even when practicing it a lot it may be better to change the practice than change the strategy. Those type of things depend though.
 

Kopaka

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
268
Location
San Diego
PP, how do you mentally balance the fear of losing and the desire to win? I feel like I lose a lot of sets because I'm afraid to lose more than I am wanting to win and it shows in my play, I start panicking more and playing more defensively and safe. I don't know how to always play to win.
(Maybe we need a Mindset General Discussion Thread?) I know this is ask PPMD about stuff the thread :p but the whole "afraid to lose more than I am wanting to win and it shows in my play" is a really important subject to touch on imo and I've personally been struggling with it for the last like 8 months and only recently have practiced techniques that I've found very useful, netting me way better placements (5th place at the last local I attended), and personal ego-demons that I've overcome (Still being upset with losing but seeing it as something different than I did before). As I learn more and continually practice these things and come to realizations I never even knew about myself it'd be awesome to help other people struggling with similar problems.

If you dream of being a top player and performing on the main stage, then shaking off any nasty mindset bugs in the hundreds of locals you're able to attend is a great way to practice it to start preparing yourself for games that WILL have more on the line. (Playing in front of a huge crowd, making it into top 64/32/8, etc.)

What I found extremely useful at the last tournament I went to, was telling myself that it was OK to lose the next set. Even before the very first set I sat down to play. Getting myself to be OK with the idea of losing, set myself up to be more prepared to play in a way that didn't include panic F-Smashes and whatnot, and let me enter this new frame of mind that lets me get the absolute MOST I can learn from each and every set I play.

If playing to learn is now the goal for me, I had to get rid of my ego as much as possible. Even against people I've beaten before/Want to prove that I can beat. This is really exciting to me, because now I know that I have the ability to do this, and though it's not going to make me win 100% of the time, it's more importantly going to get me in the frame of mind required to LEARN the most out of every set! I'm more excited now to apply these techniques than I am the aspect of beating players I want to beat. It's really invigorating. And I've only done it once prior to writing this!

Turn your fear of losing into a fear of learning nothing. It's hard at first. I know. I've struggled for months and months. Getting super frustrated and mad/not taking sets seriously against players I've beaten before/other toxic stuff. But it's definitely doable!
 
Last edited:

FE_Hector

Smash Lord
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,420
Location
Raleigh, NC
(Maybe we need a Mindset General Discussion Thread?) I know this is ask PPMD about stuff the thread :p but the whole "afraid to lose more than I am wanting to win and it shows in my play" is a really important subject to touch on imo and I've personally been struggling with it for the last like 8 months and only recently have practiced techniques that I've found very useful, netting me way better placements (5th place at the last local I attended), and personal ego-demons that I've overcome (Still being upset with losing but seeing it as something different than I did before). As I learn more and continually practice these things and come to realizations I never even knew about myself it'd be awesome to help other people struggling with similar problems.

If you dream of being a top player and performing on the main stage, then shaking off any nasty mindset bugs in the hundreds of locals you're able to attend is a great way to practice it to start preparing yourself for games that WILL have more on the line. (Playing in front of a huge crowd, making it into top 64/32/8, etc.)

What I found extremely useful at the last tournament I went to, was telling myself that it was OK to lose the next set. Even before the very first set I sat down to play. Getting myself to be OK with the idea of losing, set myself up to be more prepared to play in a way that didn't include panic F-Smashes and whatnot, and let me enter this new frame of mind that lets me get the absolute MOST I can learn from each and every set I play.

If playing to learn is now the goal for me, I had to get rid of my ego as much as possible. Even against people I've beaten before/Want to prove that I can beat. This is really exciting to me, because now I know that I have the ability to do this, and though it's not going to make me win 100% of the time, it's more importantly going to get me in the frame of mind required to LEARN the most out of every set! I'm more excited now to apply these techniques than I am the aspect of beating players I want to beat. It's really invigorating. And I've only done it once prior to writing this!

Turn your fear of losing into a fear of learning nothing. It's hard at first. I know. I've struggled for months and months. Getting super frustrated and mad/not taking sets seriously against players I've beaten before/other toxic stuff. But it's definitely doable!
That was actually really insightful. At least at my current level, I'm used to getting bodied, so it's a bit easier for me to focus on learning over winning, but it's definitely difficult at times. My college has weekly fests, which helps out with getting in practice against other people, but my improvement is kinda weird. Basically, I'll play for a few hours straight and then get home and think about WHY I was losing afterwards. For example, after getting messed up so badly yesterday, I realized that I wasn't trying to wall out my opponent nearly enough, was trying to play too aggressively, and wasn't anywhere close to having proper control over my lasers.

The way I'm getting into a learning mindset from this is actually kinda different in my opinion, but it should work. Instead of saying "oh wow, there's so much about my Falco that needs to change," I'm just taking it one step at a time. Just going to choose a different thing each few weeks to try and work on to hopefully see some pretty nice improvement soon. But yeah, your talking about it being okay to lose is definitely super intuitive, and I entirely agree.
 

AirFair

Marth tho
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
1,972
Location
Houston, Texas
(Maybe we need a Mindset General Discussion Thread?) I know this is ask PPMD about stuff the thread :p but the whole "afraid to lose more than I am wanting to win and it shows in my play" is a really important subject to touch on imo and I've personally been struggling with it for the last like 8 months and only recently have practiced techniques that I've found very useful, netting me way better placements (5th place at the last local I attended), and personal ego-demons that I've overcome (Still being upset with losing but seeing it as something different than I did before). As I learn more and continually practice these things and come to realizations I never even knew about myself it'd be awesome to help other people struggling with similar problems.

If you dream of being a top player and performing on the main stage, then shaking off any nasty mindset bugs in the hundreds of locals you're able to attend is a great way to practice it to start preparing yourself for games that WILL have more on the line. (Playing in front of a huge crowd, making it into top 64/32/8, etc.)

What I found extremely useful at the last tournament I went to, was telling myself that it was OK to lose the next set. Even before the very first set I sat down to play. Getting myself to be OK with the idea of losing, set myself up to be more prepared to play in a way that didn't include panic F-Smashes and whatnot, and let me enter this new frame of mind that lets me get the absolute MOST I can learn from each and every set I play.

If playing to learn is now the goal for me, I had to get rid of my ego as much as possible. Even against people I've beaten before/Want to prove that I can beat. This is really exciting to me, because now I know that I have the ability to do this, and though it's not going to make me win 100% of the time, it's more importantly going to get me in the frame of mind required to LEARN the most out of every set! I'm more excited now to apply these techniques than I am the aspect of beating players I want to beat. It's really invigorating. And I've only done it once prior to writing this!

Turn your fear of losing into a fear of learning nothing. It's hard at first. I know. I've struggled for months and months. Getting super frustrated and mad/not taking sets seriously against players I've beaten before/other toxic stuff. But it's definitely doable!
I liked this a lot as well. I think that it's better to lose if you know why you lost than to just lose out of panic.
 
Top Bottom