Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy

[.Chipmunk.]

.Chipmunk, I love you but don't take every friendly seriously. I thought I ***** you a lot of games too but maybe I've mistaken you for someone else. But something to consider is that I'm a really experimental player and so is M2K... a lot of times we want to test things on people where we can recreate situations easily or warm up so we're not playing to just win by maximum margin. That said, your criticisms of me are mostly fair since I openly state I suck vs Marth. However, I've also worked on it so while it's still an uncomfortable MU I'm confident I'll throttle Ether. Because I sometimes do that to people.

Aww, I love you too! Also, *cries*, I try to take every match seriously because I need to be actively engaged in the match in order to learn from it. If i'm just ****ing around I'll have fun but I feel I don't learn what I need to. Perhaps I'm mistaken, and I should just mess around more. I didn't really attempt to criticize you at all. I made mention of the fact that you admitted to being bad against Marth, but I thought you wanted that kept secret so people wouldn't pick him against you, so I didn't say it outright. I was also more saying that between your sheik and m2k's, I felt like I stood a better chance against yours.

Seeing Ether almost beat m2k's sheik, my feeling more 'in control' vs you, and knowing the fact that you said you were weak against marth...I just added the three together.

And yes, you beat me every game, but to be honest bro, I had a harder time vs your fox and peach than your sheik. Possibly because they are so different from anything I've encountered but alot of sheik's play the Marth MU the same....idk

 

[KirbyKaze]

Hey, different learning styles and such. I learn less from trying to interject a new tech into my existing style compared to how much I learn by repeating a technique until I seem to find where it fits. That said, that's my practice method. If you require complete tryhard focus because introducing a new tech into your style organically suits you best then that's fine - what works for you, though, may not work for me. I told you I suck at the MU. Perhaps I am then using the opportunities to play the MU available to experiment with strategies I am less familiar with? The immediate example I remember of that was the needles... I used the needles to the degree I did rather than other stuff because I almost never needle camp at home so I wanted to experiment with a different take on the neutral game. Normally I just try to footsie but it's been not working. I have since discussed with various people why that particular approach to the MU could have been improved upon significantly and got a better perspective for Marth's side too. But the point is... I wouldn't have found that out without experimenting.

And don't worry. I understand how you got to that conclusion (Ether's Marth would rock my Sheik). By no means am I holding it against you - you're a fan of Ether or at least supportive and that's fine. That said, I'm allowed to disagree since I don't like losing (even in MUs I'm traditionally weak in). And I'm also simply cautioning you about the dangers of using friendlies as a form of evidence. They are notorious for having weak validity. They are fun though.

Regarding my alts... I have some guesses as to why you found my Fox and Peach harder. But that's not really important and presumably if you must know you'll seek me out on AIM.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Hey, different learning styles and such. If you require complete tryhard focus then that's fine - what works for you, though, may not work for me. I told you I suck at the MU. Perhaps I am then using the opportunities to play the MU available to experiment with strategies I am less familiar with?

I understand how you got to that conclusion. By no means am I holding it against you. I'm simply cautioning you about the dangers of using friendlies as a form of evidence. They are notorious for having weak validity.

...my first tourney win was a sheik? LOL. I got ya, but my strongest opinion came from Ether vs M2K. Yes, it was one match, but the source was arguably the best sheik in the world (no offence), and a marth that, although super good, nobody really talks about as being amazing (even though I think Ether is). Also, in the marth ditto they had before hand, it was clear to me that M2K's marth was beyond that of Ether's. Which made me think that if the m2k level marth played the m2k level sheik, the marth would win.

 

[Mew2King]

i mean ur logic makes sense if but ITS ONE MATCH

 

[KirbyKaze]

M2K's Sheik is better than mine right now. He holds the title fair and square. Don't worry about offending me lolz.

I don't understand your last sentence but I'm gonna assume from some of the words in it that you're big into Marth's long-term viability and that turns me on.

edit: Sample size bias is also a real thing.

final edit: So to recap. A tiny sample size can sometimes have an anomaly that skews things a lot since there's not much of a sample to average it out. Ether is very good at SSBM and plays Red Marth. Chipmunk is big into Marth's viability as a character and supports his homies (which is good of him). KirbyKaze is gay and plays gay characters like Peach and Fox in addition to a ****** ninja. Mew2King is the best Sheik, likes Marth dittos, and enjoys long walks by the beach while watching giant mechanized whale fortresses do battle in the distance.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

i mean ur logic makes sense if but ITS ONE MATCH

Of course my logic makes sense. I'm more of a robot than you are.

 

[Ether]

m2k and kk will rock me. they move fast as heck. all I can do is try to do my best and up my melee theory before I get utterly destroyed.

also, we're missing the entire point of this thread, which is to ask pp about cactuar's stuff.

 

[Jethrotex]

KirbyKaze is gay and plays gay characters like Peach and Fox in addition to a ****** ninja. Mew2King is the best Sheik, likes Marth dittos, and enjoys long walks by the beach while watching giant mechanized whale fortresses do battle in the distance.

David, I love you, please don't change, because then I'd have to change in an attempt to keep that particular joke alive in our community, I don't like change, my wallet has no space.

Now that that has made my night, I'm off to bed to do well in that tourney tomorrow

 

[KirbyKaze]

m2k and kk will rock me. they move fast as heck. all I can do is try to do my best and up my melee theory before I get utterly destroyed.

also, we're missing the entire point of this thread, which is to ask pp about cactuar's stuff.

Eh. Don't count yourself out. That's no way to play.

Anyway, back to topic. Cactuar's stuff. As far as I can tell, Cactuar's stuff is sensual, magical, sticky, and vaguely prickly.

Cactuar's cactus juice quenches your thirst.

Marth can up smash but don't.

 

[Bl00dyBizkitz]

Cactuar's cactus juice quenches your thirst.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls-83vf6c4c&t=4s

Couldn't help myself.

Anywho, practiced more and looked at Ken's Videos and such, and I'm beginning to learn the target usually already has to be in the air via uthrow, utilt, or when you catch them in their jump before you can Ken Combo. Things I learn.

Also Ether's advice was great too, ff-ing into jump->dair works like a charm.

 

[Ether]

yeah, I had a feeling it would. It was the biggest obstacle for me.

Ken combo anything from 50% and beyond. always ken combo. ken combo is the only strategy.

 

[Bl00dyBizkitz]

Last thing to mention before going to bed. Bair is a cool move. Trufax.

 

[Bones0]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls-83vf6c4c&t=4s

Couldn't help myself.

Anywho, practiced more and looked at Ken's Videos and such, and I'm beginning to learn the target usually already has to be in the air via uthrow, utilt, or when you catch them in their jump before you can Ken Combo. Things I learn.

Also Ether's advice was great too, ff-ing into jump->dair works like a charm.

I wouldn't watch any of Ken's videos for learning purposes. I mean, obviously you can still learn stuff from him, but he also does a lot of stuff that works but wouldn't in today's metagame (like fsmashing a lot).

 

[Theftz22]

^^Did you watch the Moon at NEC?

 

[Bones0]

No, but I saw Ken at KoC.

 

[Dr Peepee]

ken teaches good movement and juggling theory and sometimes combo stuff. just adjust some of it for modern conventions.

 

[odinNJ]

If there's anything to learn from ken you can learn the same things and more from watching current top Marths. Just sayin

 

[Dr Peepee]

what's a current top marth?

ken didn't do everything those other players did, just like forward did WD Ftilt and no modern Falcos do that lol(laser/walk Ftilt is vastly different from WD Ftilt).

 

[odinNJ]

I agree that ken Uses some tactics not often used by today's Marths (lmao overB) but in general TAI beat him because of more refined matchup knowledge. However, Ken is a great example of how important execution and he basics are.

Also I don't know what a top Marth is, and I dont think anyone does anymore :D

 

[Deleted member]

If there's anything to learn from ken you can learn the same things and more from watching current top Marths. Just sayin

You could not be more incorrect if you tried.

Tai is very good sometimes but he still has a lot to learn. Imo Kevin is the only Marth worth watching and he still plays too much falco in his Marth style.

 

[odinNJ]

Enlighten me, I would actually like to know what I am missing (relatively knew to Marth)

Also pps Marth is fun to watch imo

 

[knightpraetor]

"And I'm also simply cautioning you about the dangers of using friendlies as a form of evidence. They are notorious for having weak validity. They are fun though."

how can anyone ever think that a single friendly is valid for even approximating skill? i try to have serious sets with mahone occasionally in which i hope that he tries and i know i try my best..but in friendlies i'm never ever doing anything but experimenting.

really curious if the real reason chipmunk has a harder time with KK's fox and peach is because they are alts. I know that I use my alts to clear my brain and just autopilot without developing stuff so that when I come back to my main I can go back to testing and actually learning again.

Needless to say using the full range of moves of a char results in a lot better performance.

it reminds me of the several hundred games where i only use 3 moves in marth's pool and get wrecked and then later people don't understand why they lost to me in tourney...

or all the people who think my peach is getting wrecked by sheik when i get grabbed 15 times in friendlies..but don't realize that it is a hundred times harder to get grabbed if you just choose not to approach with peach(peach can take small amounts of space easily without risking nearly as much as actually chasing into longer ranges).

or why i don't ever trust my judgment of any falco's skill in friendlies because they all play aggro when it doesn't matter.

i mean, I guess you can get the idea of whether one player is just really poor at spacing moves in general no matter what they are experimenting with (i know i can judge most of the lower half of players as bad purely off how poor their aim is), but i seriously doubt that KK's aim is that bad even when experimenting. I think people look at the stock count as a judge when friendlies are really only good for seeing things like aim and recovery, maybe DI if the player uses friendlies to practice smash DI.

edit: i also think friendlies are a good judge of your improvement, if the opponent is autopiloting rather than going for the same option for testing purposes every time.. if you do better against someone's autopilot it probably means you improved, but it doesn't mean that you are anywhere close to beating them when they play for real

 

[KirbyKaze]

what's a current top marth?

You are, silly.

 

[Bl00dyBizkitz]

I wouldn't watch any of Ken's videos for learning purposes. I mean, obviously you can still learn stuff from him, but he also does a lot of stuff that works but wouldn't in today's metagame (like fsmashing a lot).

Yeah, it's archaic compared to stuff now, I realize that.

...but it's the Ken Combo. I don't think I'll find a more reliable source than the inventor himself.

 

[Metal Reeper]

PewPewU is a top Marth. Has always been my favorite so great to see how far he's come.
PP I want to see more matches of your Marth.

 

[Habefiet]

PewPewU is a top Marth. Has always been my favorite so great to see how far he's come.

I love how you said this hours before he whooped up on the universe tonight.

Great stuff PPU

 

[AustinRC]

Pewpewu did amazing tonight. With a tiny bit more polish he'd easily be the best marth main out there. M2k and PP don't count in my opinion because marth isn't really their sole main. However after ppu gets more exp it won't matter. Winning a tournament like that with marth is quite the feat! Great **** man, mad respect!

 

[Metal Reeper]

He played tonight? Where can I see the footage? Had no idea there was a tournament.
I feel like west coast has so much more tournaments going on.

 

[KirbyKaze]

PPU is a formidable player.

 

[TaFoKiNtS]

I hosted a tourney. Ppu won.

Ether lets mm at apex

 

[hufdvh]

Falco gives me nightmares.

 

[clowsui]

Pewpewu did amazing tonight. With a tiny bit more polish he'd easily be the best marth main out there. M2k and PP don't count in my opinion because marth isn't really their sole main. However after ppu gets more exp it won't matter. Winning a tournament like that with marth is quite the feat! Great **** man, mad respect!

Austin I love you but I'll have to disagree with you on this one. PP has every right to count because he can be and is actually a winner with Marth.

Apex will vindicate me.

 

[Dr Peepee]

"And I'm also simply cautioning you about the dangers of using friendlies as a form of evidence. They are notorious for having weak validity. They are fun though."

how can anyone ever think that a single friendly is valid for even approximating skill? i try to have serious sets with mahone occasionally in which i hope that he tries and i know i try my best..but in friendlies i'm never ever doing anything but experimenting.

really curious if the real reason chipmunk has a harder time with KK's fox and peach is because they are alts. I know that I use my alts to clear my brain and just autopilot without developing stuff so that when I come back to my main I can go back to testing and actually learning again.

Needless to say using the full range of moves of a char results in a lot better performance.

it reminds me of the several hundred games where i only use 3 moves in marth's pool and get wrecked and then later people don't understand why they lost to me in tourney...

or all the people who think my peach is getting wrecked by sheik when i get grabbed 15 times in friendlies..but don't realize that it is a hundred times harder to get grabbed if you just choose not to approach with peach(peach can take small amounts of space easily without risking nearly as much as actually chasing into longer ranges).

or why i don't ever trust my judgment of any falco's skill in friendlies because they all play aggro when it doesn't matter.

i mean, I guess you can get the idea of whether one player is just really poor at spacing moves in general no matter what they are experimenting with (i know i can judge most of the lower half of players as bad purely off how poor their aim is), but i seriously doubt that KK's aim is that bad even when experimenting. I think people look at the stock count as a judge when friendlies are really only good for seeing things like aim and recovery, maybe DI if the player uses friendlies to practice smash DI.

edit: i also think friendlies are a good judge of your improvement, if the opponent is autopiloting rather than going for the same option for testing purposes every time.. if you do better against someone's autopilot it probably means you improved, but it doesn't mean that you are anywhere close to beating them when they play for real

Switching characters allows you to think differently than you would with your main and makes your mind fresh. forcing yourself to consider alternatives is a great way to stay clear-minded.

You are, silly.

shhhhh

PPU is a formidable player.

I wanna see dem vids

 

[Battlecow]

PPU is so good

best marth main easily going by results

I mean m2k is the best marth main in like 3 matchups on FD

and PP is prolly better because PP

but overall it's Pew pew frickin' you

really entertaining and smart too. And adorable. The kind of tiny asian boy I used to stuff into lockers.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Tai has also been doing very well

 

[AustinRC]

@Clowsui - I'm not saying pp's marth isn't as good. I mean with all his experience and knowledge he is probably the best with marth IMO. BUT he is a falco player at heart that's at least how I see it.

P.s. I love u too HEEEHAWWWW

 

[Tee ay eye]

Tai has also been doing very well

aw thanks

im definitely not as good/accomplished as pewpewu right now

but that isn't going to stop me from trying to become the best marth (maybe best player) in the world

 

[Deleted member]

im definitely not as good/accomplished as pewpewu right now

wavedash back more.

 

[odinNJ]

wavedash back more.

Spamming wave dash back is super effective. The opponents FOX has fainted

 

[Tee ay eye]

wavedash back more.

i actually started getting on that **** about a month ago and got super hype talking about it with like taj, peepee, and MT

but i haven't talked to you about smash since

i haven't really gotten to play much smash since then, either

so i'll probably have a lot to talk about the next time i bug you for my routine checkup X_X