Captain Falcon's Match-Up Database! | (General Discussion); UPDATED: April 18th, 2010

[PhantomX]

uair is lethal

So you're going to be racking up damage with jabs?

TBH I used to think it was like 60:40 but with a CG that puts you at near lethal it's nowhere near that easy for Falcon.

 

[Player 3]

So you're going to be racking up damage with jabs?

TBH I used to think it was like 60:40 but with a CG that puts you at near lethal it's nowhere near that easy for Falcon.

pffffft

uair damage

bair kill

or nipple dair since noone expects it

#<33>3.,3

 

[Sovereign]

Wario sucks at defending his sides, while he's in the air, and Falcon has revolving door of ***-whooping moves, when he's on someone's side, especially Wario.

Yeah, yeah, say "Bite says hello." but in all honesty, not many Wario players go, "My sides need moar defendin so I'mma gonna Bite."

It has pretty bad ending lag, if missed, so Falcon can capitalize. I'm still sticking with 60:40 It's definitely a win-able matchup for Falcon, as long as they space and time their moves correctly, and this isn't excluding the Wario player.

 

[lordhelmet]

I was messing around with in friendlies with Darky-Sama's Wario yesterday:

Manly psuedo combo: Grab Release (at 0%)>Sweet Knee>Regrab

It's escapable but it's still awesome... does anyone know if the grab release> dair> regrab is a true combo? Idk if it's Wi-Fi or my timing is off, but Darky was able to escape it 50% of the time.

 

[smashkng]

Wario is much worse online than offline because lag messes up him and he can't space properly. And don't forget how good Wario's air dodge is.

And does Wario's 0-70% CG hurt Falcon?

 

[Salem]

*Face palm*

U-air sucks, every time I use it against Wario's it gets out prioritized. O_o

Use B-air, it equals everything Wario's has unless hit in that "certain" spot.
Best move he has in the MU, along side that secret strat.

*lols at Phantom not caring*

First, it's not about being low-tier.
It's about the MU in this thread, nobody cares about being low-tier.
We care about what beats what...
Or at the least I do.

ROFL.

@smashkng:

Falcon shouldn't be getting grabbed. >_>

 

[lordhelmet]

And does Wario's 0-70% CG hurt Falcon?

No, it helps him.

 

[gameandwatch 4 Lyfe]

with the CG i say its 65-35 or 6-4, without the CG it is 55-45 or even. falcons moveset does fairly well against wario and snake, even though wario and snake mains hate to admit it/dont understand it... kill power is what swings both of those MU's IMO

UAIR

 

[smashkng]

with the CG i say its 65-35 or 6-4, without the CG it is 55-45 or even. falcons moveset does fairly well against wario and snake, even though wario and snake mains hate to admit it/dont understand it... kill power is what swings both of those MU's IMO

UAIR

How can Falcon be harder than DK without the chain grab? DK has fairly good movement as Falcon and larger but jointed range like Falcon, but DK has more power, better chance to hit than Falcon has, more weight, better recovery and better grab range.

Falcon hasn't too good range, and no disjointed attacks are always a disadvantage against Wario, because you have harder time dealing with Chomp, more when your range is not too good. And don't forget that when you have no quick ground killing moves it can be hard to land a killing move.
Ganon boards is the only low tier character boards that never want to overrate matchups.

 

[Player 3]

uptilt destroys wario

in the face

wait wtf?

ground killing moves?

your wario why would we be hitting you on the ground

 

[smashkng]

uptilt destroys wario

in the face

wait wtf?

ground killing moves?

your wario why would we be hitting you on the ground

Falcon's up tilt is slow (17 frame IS a slow move because it's slow enough to be reacted to), and Wario is one of the best punishers in the game.

It's hard to tell the matchup when the chance of fighting a top tier with a bottom tier in high level play is so rare.

 

[Moksha]

Uair and space properly.

Bair for the kill, Jab>Grab.

Don't try to be super aggressive with Wario. He has better tools and range and kills easier.

 

[PhantomX]

smashkng, don't bother, you're wasting your time.

 

[DoonKoon]

falcon does have a few good things going 4 him in this match-up

 

[Acedude55]

Up-tilt is good everywhere, any matchup, at anytime.

 

[†Slader7†]

I played a Wario for the first time yesterday . . .
bite is a ***** , not even FK can beat that
I had to spam uair and utilt to get him to killing percentages
Wario's chain grab is also a pain
I tried a Falcon Punch but his bike absorbed it >.<
but I did knee him in his bike

Wario is not a beastly character but its the fact that every wario main plays him differently that makes the match up difficult

 

[Gardex]

Up-tilt is good everywhere, any matchup, at anytime.

^ This

Spoiler

10falconpunches

 

[Player 3]

utilt beats bite

utilt beats airdodges

is what i meant

dur

dont use it where you can get punished dummys

 

[lordhelmet]

Does everyone agree to 65-35? The only reasonable MUs are 60-75

Most Falcons here will disagree but I think it's 70-30.

 

[†Slader7†]

I think its 70-30
Wario has:
-Better Recovery
-Uber priority bite (it usually comes as a surprise, less reaction time)
-Somewhat better aerials
-SuperArmor Fsmash
-Powerful Wario Waft
-Bike as defense
-Dthrow CG

Falcon has:
-Better range (utilt)
-Uair
-Faster Ground Game (jabs)
-A grab-release?

Wario isn't R4P3 but he cannot be taken lightly.

Objections/Comments?

 

[teluoborg]

Uh Slader, you didn't use Bair in your fights did you ?

Bair is the key move against Wario.

It's not 70-30, 70-30 would mean it's as hard as the Snake matchup.

 

[The Mad Hatter!]

It's around 60:40 Wario's favour.

Space properly, Bair, Uair, Grab>aerials and don't play recklessly.

Wario will try to take us to the air, but this is also where some of Falcon's strong aerial game comes into place, just space intelligently and calculate Wario's moves.

Falcon does have a more versatile ground game, not necessarily better, but more suitable in terms of setups and range.

 

[gameandwatch 4 Lyfe]

you just spam uair in this MU. thats pretty much it in a nutshell. upon landing warios will either bite, fsmash, nair OOS, or spot dodge. watch out for those. it is very hard to grab wario, but they tend to get spotdodge happy, so you can land a grab after a spot dodge. walls of uairs keep wario away. this MU is not that bad, trust me, i play it all the time with top IL warios. the CG makes it a real pain, but even then it is managable. GR knee will kill wario very early, but like i said, landing a grab is tough.
I would say in the area of 65-35, 60-40, but hey im just a stoopid failcon main who knows nothing about brawl

 

[lordhelmet]

Uh Slader, you didn't use Bair in your fights did you ?

Bair is the key move against Wario.

It's not 70-30, 70-30 would mean it's as hard as the Snake matchup.

Snake is an easy MU for me, comparing MU ratios doesn't usually help describe the difficulty because everyone has different opinions on them.

 

[lordhelmet]

*Double post*

Anyone else have imput? I'm leaning towards 70-30 or 65-36... not entirely sure what to set it as.

 

[teluoborg]

More 35-65 than 3-7 to me (I even find 6-4fitting better when I look at the ratios' definition in the index).
But w/e, what's important is the summary.

 

[Psychoace]

65/35 would be stage dependent in my opinion.

 

[Darky-Sama]

[Randomly showing up after a long disappearance. Too many things happening with me IRL, so I've had to put a lot of the boards side for the time being. I'm leaving it up to you guys to continue the discussions -- I'll update frequently as possible if people can send me the match-ups conclusions to add on their free time. Even though I haven't been around much, I DO plan on getting this guide up sometime or another. Don't slow down for me.]


35:75 is a more logical in the Falcon/Wario discussion. Though I've played against quite a few professional Warios that have made me feel the match-up is 60:40, there is no way I can conclude that after I've played some of the *ahem* 'decent Falcons' with my scrubzilla Wario and either 2-3 stocked them.

30:70 potential wise.
35:65 proper judgment/punishment.

Personally, I do consider majority of my wins with Falcon against Wario to be a fluke; either the Wario just messed up horribly, or I'm just on a higher skill level. Falcon should not have anywhere more than a 35:65 in this match-up. Which is assuming you abuse your ability to grab release Wario whenever the situation calls for it, without remorse. A good Wario won't let you near him though, so unless you're able to predict his landing and punish him in some way/shape/form, then Falcon certainly isn't going to have an easy job.

 

[teluoborg]

It's good to see that you're not dead :O
I guess this thread's next task will be to write the summaries before beginning a new discussion.

30-70 is right if you think you can do things like shield an aerial against Wario or try to approach him from below. Once you understand that the matchup is much easier.

 

[lordhelmet]

I think that about does it for Wario, is D3 up next? I gotta look at the tier list.

 

[DMG]

MK, Snake, Wario, Falco, Diddy, Dedede.

 

[lordhelmet]

MK, Snake, Wario, Falco, Diddy, Dedede.

Yeah, you replied before I got a chance to check >_>

So, Diddy should be next... I hate Diddy.

 

[Acedude55]

Diddy isn't as bad as you would normally think, but he still ****s on us here and there

 

[lordhelmet]

I haven't versed a whole lot of Diddys, but I'd say around 65-35:

Diddy obviously ***** us on the ground, try to get him in the air and spam uair. I think up throw would be your best bet when grabbing him. When you're on the ground try to stay close to him and jab/tilt him a lot, stay as close as possible so he doesn't have a chance to pull out those god**** bananas.

Uhh, not much else for me to say... don't use Falcon Kick

 

[Gardex]

Banana > Falcon punch. That's all I got to say.

 

[Lionman]

If you face a good diddy you are death, one mistake and you lose.

I have some videos vs good diddys and i cant handle that match up,the only thing i can suggest is train a counterpick character

 

[teluoborg]

Hey guise I'm thinking about making a new matchup thread so that we can write summaries before putting them up here.

Some kind of matchup export thread, but different.

Is it a good idea ?
Y/N

 

[lordhelmet]

Hey guise I'm thinking about making a new matchup thread so that we can write summaries before putting them up here.

Some kind of matchup export thread, but different.

Is it a good idea ?
Y/N

No, Darky has it all planned out. He's just dealing with RL stuff right now.

 

[Player 3]

diddy is gay

dont play falcon against him

at least a good diddy

 

[teluoborg]

I'll update frequently as possible if people can send me the match-ups conclusions to add on their free time.

This. Is why I want to make another thread.
Maybe I misunderstood what Darky meant, but it seems like the only thing he misses right now (beside time lol) is matchup conclusions.
So why don't we write these summaries together and then send them to him ?

Or at least nominate someone who'll be in charge of writing them ?