Captain falcon vs Pokemon trainer: Falcon's advantage - indepth

[Wogrim]

no offense, but depending on what you call keep away, that would not work...
stalling is not allowed

I don't mean straight up running away, I mean playing with 'safe' (basically nothing punishable via Fire Breath, Rock Smash, or a Smash) moves and using GTFO moves when Charizard is getting too close (as in has you at the edge of the stage so you can't really retreat).

 

[Steeler]

what does falcon have that isn't punishable via fire breath/rock smash/grab

 

[Zeallyx]

what does falcon have that isn't punishable via fire breath/rock smash/grab

Bair, FF Nair, up b, Ftilt,Utilt and SH Fair (without landing lag)

 

[Wogrim]

what does falcon have that isn't punishable via fire breath/rock smash/grab

Technically, almost everything is punishable by grab in some way or another, but since it doesn't combo to large damage (so that you can kill us with faster moves) or high knockback (for a kill or your pokemon switch) you can't ensure a kill (or enough knockback for a switch) before the fatigue thing, at which point you're playing handicapped (sort of the opposite of Lucario). We definately have an advantage on you if your kill power is gimped (unless you're at a much lower percent).

 

[SmashBrother2008]

what does falcon have that isn't punishable via fire breath/rock smash/grab

Blue Falcon

Seriously though;
Most of Falcons air attacks are difficult to punish. Even moves that everyone has, such as a grab, are fairly difficult to punish.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Ivy's awesome at edgeguarding. A wall of Back Airs which just has so much range you can't beat it with anything you posess will eat away any chances of you recovering over her and she doesn't require anywhere near the amount of timing most Characters do to nab that ledge she's forced you to go for.

Bair doesn't have enough range to stop falcon from getting the edge, without putting *herself? REALLY NOW? Ok fine...* herself into danger of getting falcon dived or ledgehop kneed. In the entire time I've played brawl, I've never been edgeguarded by an Ivysaur barring the drop below the ledge and tether biz, but falcon's recovery can handle that too.

Are you saying Captain Falcon ***** charizard so badly we'll have to switch twice to get to ivysaur?

ONE

That was rather unintelligent.

You can't camp Charizard. The way you're stating it, it sounds like Falcon has a 90-10 advantage on Charizard. Which is untrue.

Charizard is a good character.

"Camping" against Charizard won't work. It's called an approach, which, if you seriously try to stay on the defense, Charizard will take advantage of. You won't force Charizard to switch; how can you? How do you expect to?



...And I still think that the matchup is 55-45 Charizard

TWO

what does falcon have that isn't punishable via fire breath/rock smash/grab

THREE

I hate quoting myself.

Against charizard: ****. Yeah he'll **** you. Grab range is HUUUUUUUUGE and rock smash hurts hard. Too bad falcon's fast enough to avoid it. A predicted rock smash has enough lag on it to warrant use of falcon punch. Big target for knees, nairs, hell, whatever. Charizard's spike WILL own you, BAD. Charizard basically pulls a bowser on you with grabs and stuff.
65:35 Charizard's favor.

When did I ever say falcon has an advantage on Charizard? NEVER. I have NEVER ONCE stated that. What I DID say was that the best strategy is to stay away and force charizards approach, because his other options aren't as good. CG on squirtle and a practically neutral, if not sided towards falcon matchup with Ivy. Charizard is what I'm worried about, which is why staying away and forcing him to switch to an easier matchup is what I'm suggesting. :|

I didn't say this cryptically, and this is exactly what I meant in my earlier posts about the ignorance being posted. You THREE show it perfectly.

Ignorant Number 1: NO. I'm saying that falcon GETS ***** by charizard so much that you'll probably want to switch twice TO GET TO HIM. Or get stuck with a CGable character or a not-as-strong matchup.

Ignorant Number 2: Its a game called brawl. Start playing it. Approaching is generally weak on every character, except a few like marth, and MK. Charizard doesn't have very good approach moves, and even if he did we have a solid anti air game and LOVE TO BE APPROACHED. It takes away one of falcon's BIGGEST WEAKNESSES.
Oh, and he'll have to approach, because your stamina timer is ticking, ticking, ticking.

Ignorant Number 3: Perfect example of somebody who doesn't understand falcon and assumes he's auto bad. Though, I already ranted on this so I won't.

 

[washy]

Ignorant Number 1: NO. I'm saying that falcon GETS ***** by charizard so much that you'll probably want to switch twice TO GET TO HIM. Or get stuck with a CGable character or a not-as-strong matchup.

Ignorant Number 2: Its a game called brawl. Start playing it. Approaching is generally weak on every character, except a few like marth, and MK. Charizard doesn't have very good approach moves, and even if he did we have a solid anti air game and LOVE TO BE APPROACHED. It takes away one of falcon's BIGGEST WEAKNESSES.
Oh, and he'll have to approach, because your stamina timer is ticking, ticking, ticking.
.

I was talking about captain falcon ****** charizard thatwe'll have to switch charizartd out. not reverse.

Also the stamina is usually not a problem. If the stamina timer is running out though some players switch to the next pokemon to avoid that when have enough distance between you like after a knock back or kill.

 

[Ayaz18]

yo PT users, ask Wolfblade about my Falcon. It usually can't beat his Lucario consistently because you know........it's f*cking Wolfblade, but his PT is even with my Falcon or my Falcon is tiny bit better.

he'll agree that Falcon vs PT is either even or in Falcon's favor

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

I was talking about captain falcon ****** charizard thatwe'll have to switch charizartd out. not reverse.

Also the stamina is usually not a problem. If the stamina timer is running out though some players switch to the next pokemon to avoid that when have enough distance between you like after a knock back or kill.

*insert witty response to yet ANOTHER ignorant reply*

I swear, do people even bother reading posts anymore?

 

[Lareit]

Falcon Kick ***** all forms of Rock Smash.
The long grab range isn't scary due to me(I fight DDD's all the time, it makes Charizards grab game seem mundane)
Our Aerial game will beat his.

Not a terrible matchup.

 

[Xiahou Dun]

*insert witty response to yet ANOTHER ignorant reply*

Hah! Witty? You're overestimating yourself. ;p

 

[Fearmy]

hahaha. From the games that i've played with CF's actually charizard is a punching bag for them they said. It's easy to get a Knee, and juggling with uair is practically fun. Well that doesn't mean that i just got my *** handed to me, when ever i approached, Flamethrower was the better approach than rock smash. But i actually do believe this is in falcon's favor.

Now something that i would like to know, what moves besides grab is ineffective against shielding? I know Aerial Moves = Free Shield Grab. and i just think that Falcon has a bit of ending lag on his moves. And i know grab = autowin against shield, but still :X

 

[SmashBrother2008]

hahaha. From the games that i've played with CF's actually charizard is a punching bag for them they said. It's easy to get a Knee, and juggling with uair is practically fun. Well that doesn't mean that i just got my *** handed to me, when ever i approached, Flamethrower was the better approach than rock smash. But i actually do believe this is in falcon's favor.

Now something that i would like to know, what moves besides grab is ineffective against shielding? I know Aerial Moves = Free Shield Grab. and i just think that Falcon has a bit of ending lag on his moves. And i know grab = autowin against shield, but still :X

It's becuase he is a large character, which happens to be the only type that Falcon ever possible has advantages on. For PT, you're going to want to stick with Ivysuar for as long as you can then Squirtle.

 

[Zeallyx]

hahaha. From the games that i've played with CF's actually charizard is a punching bag for them they said. It's easy to get a Knee, and juggling with uair is practically fun. Well that doesn't mean that i just got my *** handed to me, when ever i approached, Flamethrower was the better approach than rock smash. But i actually do believe this is in falcon's favor.

Now something that i would like to know, what moves besides grab is ineffective against shielding? I know Aerial Moves = Free Shield Grab. and i just think that Falcon has a bit of ending lag on his moves. And i know grab = autowin against shield, but still :X

Falcon's arials have very little to no lag if executed correctly. Falcon's specials are shieldgrabbable though, and his dash attack is too.

 

[Bomber7]

We need some more RJ Punch in this thread. But I've given up on trying to understand how Cpt. Falcon is better than Pokemon Trainer. It's like trying to understand God.

 

[Zeallyx]

We need some more RJ Punch in this thread. But I've given up on trying to understand how Cpt. Falcon is better than Pokemon Trainer. It's like trying to understand God.

..No it's not :/
Why would you say that anyway..
are we back to 'lolfalcon'..?

And besides, I'm not the only one who thinks falcon has an advantage..even a PT main agrees.

 

[Johnny Pteran]

Falcon has the advantage. End

 

[Darxmarth23]

We should rub this into the face of the PT boards....

 

[SaltyKracka]

Would somebody kindly make the case for me as to why Falcon is better than PT? Please include reasons for why he beats all three of them, because talking about switching is futile.

 

[Zeallyx]

Would somebody kindly make the case for me as to why Falcon is better than PT? Please include reasons for why he beats all three of them, because talking about switching is futile.

please read through this thread.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Oooooor you could just summarize it. Seeing as how you'll all have to do it anyways, you might as well just compile a list of reasons. But I'm really not seeing anything that Falcon can to do PT that can make it an advantage for him.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Oooooor you could just summarize it. Seeing as how you'll all have to do it anyways, you might as well just compile a list of reasons. But I'm really not seeing anything that Falcon can to do PT that can make it an advantage for him.

What does it matter to you? Shouldn't you be worried about GANONDORF's matchup with PT?

 

[Zeallyx]

What does it matter to you? Shouldn't you be worried about GANONDORF's matchup with PT?

Well, I can understand his interest.

A summary will be made soon

 

[SaltyKracka]

What does it matter to you? Shouldn't you be worried about GANONDORF's matchup with PT?

Shouldn't you be worried about being such a narrow-minded idiot?

 

[Darxmarth23]

What does it matter to you? Shouldn't you be worried about GANONDORF's matchup with PT?

Shouldn't you be worried about being such a narrow-minded idiot?

Lets calm down a bit. Both of you. We don't want to be what the Marth boards used to be.

 

[Face124]

Shouldn't you be worried about being such a narrow-minded idiot?

Hmm. Maybe it was a silly thing to say, but the use of idiot was unnecessary.

I recommend reading the thread if you want to see why its slightly in Falcon's favour. Two PT mainers have said so far that its in Falcon's favour, and I think the rest are saying about even, so....

This isn't my opinion though, I disagree with LOADS of match-ups.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Hmm. Maybe it was a silly thing to say, but the use of idiot was unnecessary.

I recommend reading the thread if you want to see why its slightly in Falcon's favour. Two PT mainers have said so far that its in Falcon's favour, and I think the rest are saying about even, so....

This isn't my opinion though, I disagree with LOADS of match-ups.

Quite frankly, I know who some of the better PT mains are, and the two you mentioned aren't them. As for reading the thread, it's much better if I can just get your summary and then pick at it. That way, all of the arguments I make are collected in the same place instead of over several posts.

 

[Face124]

Quite frankly, I know who some of the better PT mains are, and the two you mentioned aren't them. As for reading the thread, it's much better if I can just get your summary and then pick at it. That way, all of the arguments I make are collected in the same place instead of over several posts.

Fair enough. I don't know **** about who the PT mains are, so I have nothing to say. That seems fair enough, but we haven't even reached a decision yet. Lately I feel we have been lacking contribution from some of the more experienced seeming PT's. But thats just me.

 

[Brinzy]

Falcon? lolrofl

 

[Face124]

Falcon? lolrofl

10letsseehowmanypeopledontrealiseitsajoke

 

[Brinzy]

On a serious note, I've never really faced Falcon with PT... but I'm not really a PT main, just a PT player.

I didn't do an in-depth reading of this thread, though it seems to be an interesting match-up so far...

EDIT: But I must say, 65:35 Charizard vs. Squirtle? I'm reading something about a chaingrab that can lead to uair, but how often is Squirtle gonna get grabbed here? I know that you guys acknowledged already that Squirtle isn't easy to grab, but I'm still wondering how much this affects the match-up, because otherwise, I see this as an even fight, though possibly very, very slightly in Squirtle's favor only because he's better at gimping Falcon off-stage, but otherwise an even match. Once you take the chaingrab into consideration, the most I'd give it is 60:40 Falcon, but even then I'm stuck on 55:45.

Yay ratios.

 

[Zeallyx]

On a serious note, I've never really faced Falcon with PT... but I'm not really a PT main, just a PT player.

I didn't do an in-depth reading of this thread, though it seems to be an interesting match-up so far...

EDIT: But I must say, 65:35 Charizard vs. Squirtle? I'm reading something about a chaingrab that can lead to uair, but how often is Squirtle gonna get grabbed here? I know that you guys acknowledged already that Squirtle isn't easy to grab, but I'm still wondering how much this affects the match-up, because otherwise, I see this as an even fight, though possibly very, very slightly in Squirtle's favor only because he's better at gimping Falcon off-stage, but otherwise an even match. Once you take the chaingrab into consideration, the most I'd give it is 60:40 Falcon, but even then I'm stuck on 55:45.

Yay ratios.

I don't think squirtles offstage game is better than falcons (in my experience)
and squirtle will get grabbed, as he, too, is a close combat brawler (in my experience it really wasn't hard to grab squirtle :/ and the PT player was experienced)

 

[Darxmarth23]

Yeah and with the recent grab approaches discovered it should be easier to grab him. Falcon benefits from grabs quite a lot.

And knee is right again, falcons offstage game is decent. All his aerials kill.

 

[Brinzy]

I'm not sure why you're mentioning "off-stage game" when I'm only talking about Water Gun... though I guess I did not make this apparent.

I'm also sure Squirtle can get grabbed. I just don't see it as super easy, but I haven't played this fight.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

So does Captain Falcon have a 65-35 advantage over Wario too?

 

[Zeallyx]

So does Captain Falcon have a 65-35 advantage over Wario too?

you are missing the point, kind sir.
The CG on squirtle isn't the only reason for falcon's advantage.

 

[SaltyKracka]

you are missing the point, kind sir.
The CG on squirtle isn't the only reason for falcon's advantage.

Funny, it's the only thing I can think of.

 

[Zeallyx]

Funny, it's the only thing I can think of.

The PT I faced even focused on switching squirtle asap ^_^ not just because of a CG I think

 

[SaltyKracka]

The PT I faced even focused on switching squirtle asap ^_^ not just because of a CG I think

Which PT would this be?

 

[Zeallyx]

Which PT would this be?

I don't remember his name ^_^ but he is experienced. He really is