Official Captain Falcon Video Critique Thread

[Wenbobular]

I mean, Diakonos did it a couple times and fade out, fade back in with the stomp will get a lot of things you don't expect

Also she doesn't have aerial mobility nor does she have Falcon's dashdance, I don't think Falcon Sheik is impossible or even that disadvantaged if the Falcon plays the matchup properly

 

[Divinokage]

When Hax gets to M2k level, I'm sure he'll be able to beat him. Hell, he almost did a few times already.. it's not impossible. The meta always advances so like when Sheiks found out about jab reset or that double jab mixup then the Falcons immediately tried to counter it with sdi and stuff so i mean i think theres always something you can do.

 

[DuckPimp]

the short of it is that hax is already better vs sheik than m2k is vs falcon

 

[Hax]

imo i've outplayed M2K in both of our two most recent sets and only lost because of matchup

he clearly outplayed me at ROM5 though

 

[The Irish Mafia]

yeah honestly the NEC / Smashacre sets are so upsetting
watched both them ****s last night, it doesn't even look like you're playing the same character anymore
that weird dashdancing you did was ****ing nuts and I need to figure out how to do it

 

[Divinokage]

Its basically like having mastery over spacing and how you can keep Falcon safe while also tricking your opponent into committing. It's very sick and that amount of control is pretty insane. When I see good styles to use like this, even with my good memory I still cant even come close to copy Hax, it's so fast and precise while my general style is slower and simple.

 

[Windrose]

i should've done that donation thing to get a 1 on 1 session with hax.

 

[DuckPimp]

yeah honestly the NEC / Smashacre sets are so upsetting

this game is upsetting but its fun as hell cuz we're stupid masochists or something

 

[bertbusdriver]

http://www.twitch.tv/ripple884/b/374306791?t=10m47s

tear me a new one guys

 

[Wenbobular]

Slow down and don't do things that just obviously won't work
Uair isn't very good in neutral unless your opponent is doing rainbow aerials or you're really good at scooping them
Nair isn't very good either if they're in the range to DD grab it
Aerials aren't very good in general unless you're hitting someone with them ... for every aerial you're whiffing like a dummy you could be dashdance pressuring instead
Are you aware that you can move really far horizontally when you full hop because air control is very good

Just do less bad things are more good things <_<

 

[oksas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbW-hvPnU8E

can i have a new one torn too?

 

[Windrose]

Just do less bad things are more good things <_<

i would also like to add that people should play well instead of playing poorly.

 

[Wenbobular]

As dumb as the advice sounds .... if you just watch your matches you'll probably be like "what the hell am i doing" quite frequently, even if you're good

@Oksas - I'll probably get to it later ... if I forget just quote me and I'll get to it
Precursory glance - you do some good stuff, but Nair / Jab is too easily CC Dsmashed unless you land a clean hit ... if you're fishing for something to start a combo, I try to get her when she starts floating

Also don't rush vs Peach ... if you're not 100% on hitting her don't go for a risky move and let her get position on you for free, just Uair if you can't hit a knee

 

[bertbusdriver]

wenbo's girth cannot be ignored on the video critique thread... thanks for the tips. Still kinda confused about what you said about nair and uair unless you really meant in a nutshell "just DD more."

I'll try to get some recording w swedish delight soon. I haven't beaten his sheik in years.

 

[Wenbobular]

Well if you're using Uair but not hitting them you should do something else
Same with Nair

Basically you're doing aerials at the wrong time / spacing and you'd get punished if the Marth knew how to dashdance grab (which he didn't)

 

[RFrizzle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhP8Aes9V_A&list=UUNSav2dc0h2tvw5FfZXFS5Q

Wenbo critique me vs. SB

 

[Wenbobular]

I liked ... none of those Nairs
They all sucked
There were a couple that hit him but I didn't particularly like those either
The ones that you just do in place aren't going to hit anybody
The approaching ones aren't going to work on people that hold down
Pivot Nair is basically a bad version of dashdance grab unless you do it really fast (i.e. you're in his Nair range so you do a really fast pivot Nair to stuff his jump)

You get grabbed too much for shielding too long ... if you put up your shield and he doesn't touch it, suspect an incoming grab

DI away from him and don't miss really obvious techs

Even though your mechanics aren't the best you could be doing much better just by making better decisions, it kinda looks like you don't really know what to look for sometimes so you just Nair a lot and hope for the best
Sometimes you manage to react to him doing an aerial with a dashdance grab though
Just do that a lot more

 

[Ziodyne]

I liked ... none of those Nairs

That pause man
Wenbo, you are probably a really fun person irl lol

 

[RFrizzle]

Man, that hurt my soul
Can you be a little more specific with some things? How do I take space? When can I nair? How do I do that stuff but not play like a campy faggorlt?

 

[DuckPimp]

in my experience whenever wenbo watches my games irl he usually just says "oh my godddd" a lot whenever i get **** on, and yells "why would you do that??" and "omg just ______!!'

and then he stays really late and watches us play mario party instead of going home like a smart person

 

[RFrizzle]

And I thought I played alright in this set and now my misconceptions are shattered

 

[Windrose]

rfrizzle, there's always room for improvement! you did some good tech chasing (or sb did some really questionable tech directions in some cases) and the combos you did off them were pretty solid.

but wenbo has some good points on your neutral game. it does look like you're spamming aerials and not really sure what to do in the neutral game and just hoping to get a hit or a grab to lead into your standard combos.

side note: uptilt is not good to edge guard fox especially if he's firefoxing from above the stage, he has too many options and up tilt is very non-optimal. (you only did it once but i remembered it) go out and try to knee or up air him instead.

i'll also add some stuff about your nairs.
you seem to be trying to do the old s2j kind of style by spamming a 50,000 nairs (millionaire) to wall out fox/out space fox. that only works to a certain degree but you want to avoid spamming all those nairs for the numerous reasons wenbo pointed out. Also your nairs aren't spaced that well and aren't fast fallen which is dangerous vs better foxes.

keep playing and improving, try to get faster and improve your mechanics and neutral game so you can get better chances of opening up your combo tree options.

 

[RFrizzle]

Yeah your right, and reviewing the video I do nair a lot when I could do something better. I for sure get that I'm only at the tip of the iceberg, getting 4th at rolla monthlies definetely is not a stopping point lol. Yeah, I need to learn to react better to a lot of things. I guess my lI
next step is Yeah your right, and reviewing the video I do nair a lot when I could do something better. I for sure get that I'm only at the tip of the iceberg, getting 4th at rolla monthlies definetely is not a stopping point lol. Yeah, I need to learn to react better to a lot of things. I guess my li
next step is asking what should I do instead of nairs? And whens it good to nair?


Wtf phone

 

[Wenbobular]

I didn't mean to be mean haha
I'm just saying, go back and watch your sets, especially when you Nair ... and think to yourself, "self, would that Nair have hit in a million years?"

I think quite often you'll find the answer to be "no never"

Take for example ... the literal first Nair you do

Forget the fact that he's just randomly doing lasers for a moment and look at where he is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=U...feature=player_detailpage&v=AhP8Aes9V_A#t=16s

I'll try to point out everything I think is wrong about this Nair

1. You start it at basically the ideal distance for him to dashdance grab you
2. You even pull back in the middle, making it even less likely to hit him
3. Look at his % it is 0!!!

So, explanation
Reason 1 should be fairly obvious ... if he's dashdancing instead of VERY RANDOMLY SHOOTING LASERS it's a free grab
Reason 2 - if you're going to do Nairs, you have to consider what you're trying to do with it
If you're going to be Nairing into his dashdance, you can't just ***** out in the middle of your Nair and decide you're retreating when he has full mobility
If this is in fact just a tech skill error, then this is a little more excusable ... there are things you can do involving not fastfalling to travel farther and baits at certain distances where you can trick him into attacking you when you really just want to land and dashdance grab ... anyway, this leads us to reason 3
He's at zero!!!!!!!
Nair is just about the worst move you can do against anybody at 0 if they know how to hold down at all (which is basically everybody with any sort of reasonable defensive habits)
Even if you hit them ... it's probably better for them than it is for you
Now attempt this sort of analysis on each Nair you do and figure out
a) why did I do that Nair
b) was it a good idea
c) if so, why and if not, why not
Or more importantly ... do you even know why you did that Nair in the first place? Can you remember anything about it?

If you're actively playing and trying to learn, there are things you should be taking note of when you get hit ... little by little as your knowledge base grows, you can remember with greater clarity what you wanted to do / what you maybe should have done when you're rewatching matches
I'm starting to ramble so I'll leave it at that, but go back and watch it again and I'd be happy to answer questions
I might also doublepost to answer questions you've already asked, because this post has mostly been me raging at how bad Nair is

I'm just going to post a small clarification - the spacing where you started your Nair isn't the stone worst, but it's certainly not ideal if he's trying to recenter his dashdance slightly farther away and the other reasons I listed just makes the Nair you did here that much worse

GOOD THING HE WAS RANDOMLY SHOOTING LASERS I'm not sure why a Fox would ever try to do that anywhere near short hop range

Alternatives for Nair - doing different aerials ... approaching knee and stomp are real threats that you can try if you suspect they're falling asleep in their dashdance, knee in particular being very safe on block (obviously not safe if you whiff and prone to getting stuffed, but just mix it up)

The art of being aggressive while not being aggressive is just a matter of exerting pressure with your dashdance ... which I'm not going to pretend is easy because I still have trouble doing it, but it's where all the "mindgames" are taking place in terms of getting first hits from neutral

It's great because it's not that much a matter of techskill

Another awesome alternative for approaching Nair is actually approaching grab, experiment with just running up and grabbing them if you've been Nair from a certain distance and notice they're trying to shield it

I'd be happy to answer other questions / talk about stuff, don't take my critique too personally that's just how I tend to post when doing critiques where I think stuff is happening suboptimally too often


Actually I'll also include an instance of something I liked, which I neglected to do on the first pass (I'm silly)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...=UUNSav2dc0h2tvw5FfZXFS5Q&v=AhP8Aes9V_A#t=23s

You space around the runoff platform Bair nicely, but you're late on the grab and get spotdodge shined

Knowing when you're late on the punish and altering your punish is super important in both getting more damage AND not running into stuff like this ... you'll get better at it as you learn the timing / spacing you need to be at to grab people out of aerials

 

[RFrizzle]

Wow thanks Wenbo just rewatched my sets from this tourney
pretty gross
gotta learn to be more reactive. So many nairs. I realized the only reason I won is because I'd just get some tech chase after being beat in the neutral game like 5 times
and my edgeguards are nonexistant
I suck
Wenbo come to midwest plox

 

[Wenbobular]

You just have to learn what to look for and what options you have available to you ... that way you can see how often they'll fall for certain things and how they change based on what you're doing

It's kinda like ... super fast paced memory
If that makes any sense

 

[Bu$]

Far out. I learned heaps just by watching those vids that aren't even my own and the following critique. Good **** guys.

 

[Windrose]

wow. screen shots too lol. Very thorough.

 

[Wenbobular]

Gets the point across better I realize that sometimes I'm just saying vague things and assuming people know how to space

 

[DuckPimp]

the screen shots were very useful

 

[Penguin_ftw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r177ONIQCfM

other than the obvious tech skill issues (I need to practice more than once every few months) what should I keep in mind next time I play

 

[Wenbobular]

Gonna watch the Falco one for now cuz I have a tourney to go to

Some of your edgeguarding choices are kinda miserable

The weak knee -> upair attempt was fine ... but you flubbed the timing sooo bad

When he was firebirding above the stage you did runoff upair -> nair .... but those don't take away the sweetspot toward the stage at all
If he's firebirding above either walk to the very edge to actually threaten hitting him or just grab the ledge and try to hit anticipate where he's gonna go

I liked some of the platform techchase stomps they were timed pretty good

 

[Penguin_ftw]

Some of your edgeguarding choices are kinda miserable

When he was firebirding above the stage you did runoff upair -> nair .... but those don't take away the sweetspot toward the stage at all

I think the nair was an attempt to cover a side-b, but yeah that u-air was probably me just scrambling, I need to work on my edgeguards for sure. I think just some well placed bairs would net me a lot more kills than anything else I go for.

The weak knee -> upair attempt was fine ... but you flubbed the timing sooo bad

I'm normally better about that, or at the very least not committing to the u-air after missing the knee by a mile.

 

[_Rocky_]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uDdZLJIeNA
shoot me

 

[Skeletom]

looking for some general critique/feedback on my spacing.
i took a break from melee and after a recent house party/crew set just got that motivation to learn back.

http://youtu.be/SZHbRXxzdSM?t=9m43s

 

[Wenbobular]

@Skeletom - Lot of the same Nairing problem as RFrizzle. Nair is fine vs Falco because most Falcos will laser and Nair is very good at stuffing unsafe lasers, but you have to but Nairing with that purpose in mind
Especially if you're going to miss all the fastfalls then Nair is just the most unsafe move ever for randomly throwing it out

The other problem with Nair is any pivot Nair you do that's not super fast basically could've just been dashdance grab and that's so much better for you

Also sometimes you're autopiloting too much in combos .... that Nair after the stomp was pretty bad

You have some good escapes off platforms with wavedash out of shield ... would've liked to see you actually hit him with a Bair or Uair or something

@Rocky - might look at the rest of that set later because there's less obvious stuff wrong with it, but I think Uair kinda sucks as a platform techchase ... if you're going to guess I'd rather just guess with knee

I also prefer landing on top of the platform because sometimes you can be fast enough to cover rolls if you miss an aerial, and sometimes you can just react to their roll DI with aerial movement of your own after you start up a move
It's a trick I usually do with upthrow -> stomp at mid % when you have enough time to start a stomp that will catch tech in place

 

[Skeletom]

cheers man. I'll try and keep that stuff in mind.

 

[_Rocky_]

@Rocky - might look at the rest of that set later because there's less obvious stuff wrong with it, but I think Uair kinda sucks as a platform techchase ... if you're going to guess I'd rather just guess with knee

I also prefer landing on top of the platform because sometimes you can be fast enough to cover rolls if you miss an aerial, and sometimes you can just react to their roll DI with aerial movement of your own after you start up a move
It's a trick I usually do with upthrow -> stomp at mid % when you have enough time to start a stomp that will catch tech in place

I figured the same. I wanted to try out uair to see how it would work but my platform techchasing just ended up being much worse than usual. I have a bunch of new ideas involving first hit nair and stomps to land on platforms and then reacting with grabs that I will try at the next tourney I go to.

 

[Wenbobular]

If they hold down a lot first hit Nair is really bad, but otherwise it's quite good .... basically I think it's inversely correlated with player skill haha

I think starting a stomp that will hit their tech in place really late gives you enough time to DI to hit some rolls on a platform, I'm not sure if I can find any footage of it but I think it's one of the best things you can be doing if you're given the opportunity

 

[Ziodyne]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUM08aeOr98

I hated myself after this set =[

There's probably a lot more bad stuff I did in this set than I can see right now, but I made quite a few game-changing technical mistakes and poor choices. Overall, my decision-making was pretty sloppy this set, but I think it still boils down to the fact that I'm generally clueless as to how to approach the Falcon ditto (though thanks to this set, I really started thinking about it and starting coming up with some solutions on my own).

Feel free to critique, I could use any help I can get.