captain falcon on the next tier list

[Face124]

I really think he could move above ganondorf, and I do think that Falcon is the better character, with his great speed and air mobility, and better recovery. Ganondorf does have his murder choke and his better down-B, but falcon has the far better Falcon Dive and jab. Ganondorf does have the better f/d-tilt and his D-air is beastly, but Falcons U-air, U-tilt and D-smash are better than his. If you look at it from that sort of view Ganondorf does seem to beat Falcon, But Falcons speed, better and difficult/risky to gimp recovery I think give him the upper hand.

 

[Mith_]

There is no way Ganon is worst the Falcon.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Right now it's popular to hate on the cap'm.

^^^ This is the cause of this vvv

Many would disagree with me though.(They assume theyre' all bad matchups)

Becuase he is rated the worst everyone is ashamed to have thier character even 50:50 with Falcon so they just argue the matchup to death until it is in thier favor.

 

[BBoyindo]

I think he has to be inbetween lucas and ness

 

[illinialex24]

Top
Meta Knight
Snake
Mr. Game & Watch
Falco
R.O.B.
Marth

High
King Dedede
Wario
Lucario
Donkey Kong
Diddy
Pikachu
Ice Climbers
Kirby
Pit
Wolf

Middle
Toon Link
Olimar
Fox
Zelda
Zero Suit Samus
Bowser
Luigi
Peach
Ike
Lucas

Low
Sheik
Jigglypuff
Ness
Mario
Pokémon Trainer
Samus
Yoshi
Sonic
Link
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon


This should be possible, it just has to be

Fixed. He will be bottom. He has no kill moves, no priority and an inability to rack up damage safely.

Becuase he is rated the worst everyone is ashamed to have thier character even 50:50 with Falcon so they just argue the matchup to death until it is in thier favor.

No, he just sucks in Brawl. He has 1 good matchup, Ganondorf, but has no kill move or anything so Ganondorf does better against the roster and therefore is better. He is bad and thats why I friendly him. Real men use Falcon.

I think he has to be inbetween lucas and ness

Just no. Just no. He has a terrible ground game, terrible aerial game, almost no priority, almost no range, few killing options, and its hard for him to rack up damage. Unless he gets the ability to wavedash and L-cancel and his hitbox increases by 25%, he will stay bottom of low tier. And the fact that he has 1, only 1 good matchup and thats against the second worst. He will stay bottom.

 

[Thossos]

a tier list isn't based on matchups?
but the matchups are the basis of tournies...
right?


and for the record, it's no fun calling CF Middle Tier
even though that's not the point, I love knowing he's the worst xD

 

[illinialex24]

a tier list isn't based on matchups?
but the matchups are the basis of tournies...
right?

Matchups are the basis of theoretical and tournament based success of a character against another. Captain Falcon loses to everyone theoretically and tournament wise but Ganondorf.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

^^^ Falcon Basher.

 

[illinialex24]

^^^ Falcon Basher.

Ask anyone. Falcon sucks. Enough said. Thats why I use him.

 

[New Captain Falcon]

Falcon is still a good character, i consider him a middle tier, higher than link , the only thing about him is that you need to train a lot to master it but when you do it he becomes a threat

 

[SmashBrother2008]

That's funny, I use him becuase he is an awesme character.

 

[Zeallyx]

That's funny, I use him becuase he is an awesme character.

you don't seem to understand how bad falcon really is.
he is really bad unfortunatly

 

[Face124]

you don't seem to understand how bad falcon really is.
he is really bad unfortunatly

T'was sarcasm in response to Illinialex's post, I think.

 

[Zeallyx]

T'was sarcasm in response to Illinialex's post, I think.

Idk man..
he had more posts that make it look like he doesn't really understand

 

[LinIsKorean]

I kinda hope Falcon stays bottom... =)

 

[illinialex24]

Falcon is still a good character, i consider him a middle tier, higher than link , the only thing about him is that you need to train a lot to master it but when you do it he becomes a threat

No, just no. Seriously, absolutely not. There is no way he gets past 2nd worst on the tier list unless he gets an insane new technique that works only for him or much better for him.

That's funny, I use him becuase he is an awesme character.

He is awesome but bad.

you don't seem to understand how bad falcon really is.
he is really bad unfortunatly

You have become an intelligent poster.

 

[Johnny Pteran]

Link deserves to be higher, but... I'm just not sure about Captain Falcon. I don't even understand why Ganondorf is so low on the tier list, Thunderstomping is awesome, Side-B is so much better than Captain Falcon's...

But to be honest, I'm not quite sure if Captain Falcon can get better than the lowest of the bottom. I think the best he can get is... Better than Jigglypuff I guess? Maybe?

 

[illinialex24]

Link deserves to be higher, but... I'm just not sure about Captain Falcon. I don't even understand why Ganondorf is so low on the tier list, Thunderstomping is awesome, Side-B is so much better than Captain Falcon's...

But to be honest, I'm not quite sure if Captain Falcon can get better than the lowest of the bottom. I think the best he can get is... Better than Jigglypuff I guess? Maybe?

Not even close. Jigglypuff should move up a fair amount, Link should stay fairly low and so should Ganondorf and Captain Falcon. Ganondorf has NO good matchups. Link has some of the worst and the worst recovery in the game (except maybe Olimar but he's easier put off the ledge). Jigglypuff should go up to high low or lower mid tier, while those 3 should be the bottom 3.

 

[Noodlehead]

my new avatar rocks!!!

 

[Nick The Potato]

Boooo.....

 

[Zeallyx]

my new avatar rocks!!!

go wash your mouth with soap young man

 

[Johnny Pteran]

Not even close. Jigglypuff should move up a fair amount, Link should stay fairly low and so should Ganondorf and Captain Falcon. Ganondorf has NO good matchups. Link has some of the worst and the worst recovery in the game (except maybe Olimar but he's easier put off the ledge). Jigglypuff should go up to high low or lower mid tier, while those 3 should be the bottom 3.

I don't know, it just seems like Link has the most potential out of "the 3 worst". Ganondorf... I suppose he should stay low...

... Well, it seems like Captain Falcon just got boned in this game. He doesn't have really any "Advanced Techniques", he doesn't have much combo potential, so I guess he does deserve to stay at the bottom. But I still say Link should be higher.

 

[illinialex24]

I don't know, it just seems like Link has the most potential out of "the 3 worst". Ganondorf... I suppose he should stay low...

... Well, it seems like Captain Falcon just got boned in this game. He doesn't have really any "Advanced Techniques", he doesn't have much combo potential, so I guess he does deserve to stay at the bottom. But I still say Link should be higher.

He does have the most potential but a lot less than almost everyone else in the game. Mainly because he fails to recover to almost everyone.

 

[Ishiey]

Real men use Falcon.

Is there really anything else that matters? Falcon may be the worst character in Brawl, but anyone that can use him well is instantly amazing.

I think that Ganon is quite a bit better than link and CF, but those three are almost certainly at the bottom. Link is IMO better than CF, but not by too much.

 

[illinialex24]

Is there really anything else that matters? Falcon may be the worst character in Brawl, but anyone that can use him well is instantly amazing.

I think that Ganon is quite a bit better than link and CF, but those three are almost certainly at the bottom. Link is IMO better than CF, but not by too much.

Nah, Link has more potential just because he is surprisingly very agile if you use him well (watch Izaw play and compare him to amazing Ganondorf users, there is no comparison).

 

[Ray/Boshi]

Alot of people That just so happens to be discussing their character in the tier categories, talk about him being up slightly. I just don't see it happening honestly. Might be bumped up slightly. One or two characters, Minor changes you know. But nothing too drastic. I doubt any mindblowing things will occur with alot of characters. Unless that character already has it in them. IE Diddy with his Nana's. Alot of hidden unfounded potential is in that.

A few in low may go to middle tier possibly, Few middle might get bumped down to low or into high, ect ect ect.

Captain Falcon can potentially be good, yes. As every character could. If you emphasize on their strengths. Unfortunatly, CF is dead last for that reason. What strengths does he have? Priority? Simple, easy to connect KO options? It's no, and no. He can be good. He can also be a force to be reckoned with. Just not on the tier list IMO. Or a dominating factor on the Low tier portion of it even.

I'd say he can possibly pass up Ganondorf I suppose.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

my new avatar rocks!!!

Ew. Why in God's name Metaknight?! Noodlehead's defected from Falcon LOL

 

[AfroThunder396]

I think it would be hard for the good captain NOT to move up a few spots given how his tournament results have risen since the first tier list was made.

 

[JuanTendo]

i think is gonna be higher than that...

 

[illinialex24]

i think is gonna be higher than that...

He won't be. Toknee started out thinking Falcon would do better and that he was somewhat legit (why else would he post a guide how not to suck as Falcon), but like most lower tier mains, he eventually realized the character has little potential.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

^^What makes you so sure that nothing will change. It seems like you're bound and determined to actually KEEP Falcon at bottom and to make everyone think he's garbage. Is that the case?

@ Afrothunder; Yeah I know, I was suprised when I looked at the rankings list! Last time I saw it was 2 months ago and he was dead bottom. Isn't the tier list based off of Matchups and Rankings?

 

[illinialex24]

^^What makes you so sure that nothing will change. It seems like you're bound and determined to actually KEEP Falcon at bottom and to make everyone think he's garbage. Is that the case?

I don't want him to suck, but he will unless a new tech is discovered. He has no priority, no range, no easy damage, and no KO moves, and finally, 1 good matchup against a neglected character who is second worst. NO character can overcome that and be said to be more than second worst.

 

[Wogrim]

I don't want him to suck, but he will unless a new tech is discovered. He has no priority, no range, no easy damage, and no KO moves, and finally, 1 good matchup against a neglected character who is second worst. NO character can overcome that and be said to be more than second worst.

I'm tired of hearing your opinions, and I'm not sure where you've determined that Ganon is an easy matchup.

 

[illinialex24]

I'm tired of hearing your opinions, and I'm not sure where you've determined that Ganon is an easy matchup.

Wow, thats it? Thats why most people here are a joke... And seriously, the Ganon boards overestimate almost all of their matchups (if not all) and said that Jigglypuff Ganondorf was 40-60 Ganondorfs favor, when in reality almost any other player will tell you its 60-40 Jigglypuff to 70-30 Jigglypuff.

And they said Captain Falcon Ganondorf is 50-50, and I know for a fact Captain Falcon does not have any other good matchups. And both theoretically and in practice, it is his only good matchup.

 

[The Milk Monster]

Wow, thats it? Thats why most people here are a joke... And seriously, the Ganon boards overestimate almost all of their matchups (if not all) and said that Jigglypuff Ganondorf was 40-60 Ganondorfs favor, when in reality almost any other player will tell you its 60-40 Jigglypuff to 70-30 Jigglypuff.

And they said Captain Falcon Ganondorf is 50-50, and I know for a fact Captain Falcon does not have any other good matchups. And both theoretically and in practice, it is his only good matchup.

Cap's other good match up...
IS ANOTHER CAPTAIN FALCON!

 

[Face124]

Wow, thats it? Thats why most people here are a joke...

No. Just no. You have sort of come in hear and began to tell us, the people that main Falcon all about how bad he is. WE KNOW. WE DO NOT NEED YOU TO TELL US THAT, ITS PRETTY WELL KNOWN ALREADY. You have posted the same things so many times in so many threads, no kill moves, no priority etc etc

I saw you saying in another thread that you were leading the Falcon boards. What? Thats just..... what? How are "leading" our boards? We do not need help from you, and btw, you haven't really been giving any. Your telling us to get our act together, and all you see on these boards are joke threads. Please, shut up. We have a match up discussion going, lots of good points and seriousness in that thread. I have a Combo and Technique thread going, its doing quite well. We use the weekly character discussion as a good tread to talk about strats and such. Your telling us to go out and advance Falcon some more. If you were here just two weeks before you would have seen it all. New combos, uses for moves, mindgames and real discussion threads were everywhere. Sure, there is a "who else wears gay pride suit" thread, but isn't that just a funny name for a "what colour do you go" thread, which is on EVERY board? Maybe every thread isn't intent on advancing Falcon, but there aren't any threads with just "yes" and "show me your moves" written all over them. There is one about a combo video, one about a whole board combo video, presumably a new video thread is going to pop up. Sure, there is the Captain falcon in brawl thread, but, even if you can consider a "spam" thread, there is a lot of very in-depth thinking happening there, its a serious discussion.

But what do you expect us to do? Suddenly find a new AT, or combo? Currently TKONTK and I are looking into a combo after a LCFC knee, and, as suggested by Z1gma on the combo and technique thread, a Flubb'd knee to U-tilt kill combo and possible more variations of that. We do not need you to come into our boards, tell us your leading us and tell us to get our act together, because trust me, we're trying as hard as we can.

 

[Wogrim]

Wow, thats it? Thats why most people here are a joke... And seriously, the Ganon boards overestimate almost all of their matchups (if not all) and said that Jigglypuff Ganondorf was 40-60 Ganondorfs favor, when in reality almost any other player will tell you its 60-40 Jigglypuff to 70-30 Jigglypuff.

And they said Captain Falcon Ganondorf is 50-50, and I know for a fact Captain Falcon does not have any other good matchups. And both theoretically and in practice, it is his only good matchup.

None of your points (from previous posts) are new or interesting. No range, no priority, no kill moves, blah blah blah. We've heard that months ago, and it's not as true as you think it is. Read through the sticky weekly character discussion thread to find some counters to those arguments. Summary: we can avoid many priority issues, our range isn't that bad, and our kill moves are pretty strong (none that we can really land at will, but strong). The post you are responding to was no less detailed than yours.

First off, multiple Ganons are saying 60-40 Ganon, not 50-50. Second, most people overestimate their matchups because most of the top players of a character havn't played opponents of equal skill in all the other characters (not just Ganons). I'm also wondering (since you obviously think Jiggs is good) why Jiggs has the advantage on C. Falcon, or Ganon for that matter. Last I rememer Jiggs is the lightest character in the game and doesn't have much range.

 

[chandy]

Ok ppl we gotta calm it. BEing genuine I believe Falcon may be able to make it off bottom place and overtake Ganon maybe even Jiggz in the tier list. I think Link will go up too becoz of his superb ATs altho his recovery lets him down a lot. (my opinion is biased) But if u luk at other characters in low tier eg Samus, Sonic, Mario and PT, they rn't exactly bad characters and ne of them cud go up. Sonic has superb speed, Samus has decent ATs and a superb zair, Mario is extremely balanced and it's hard to see y such a balanced character isn't middle tier, Charizard IMO is just a better version of Bowser, Ivysaur is one of the best characters apart from his recovery and squirtle is pretty agile... Even Yoshi is decent. It makes it near impossible for Ganon, C Falcon or Jiggz to get out of Low Tier... Link will find it pretty hard too becoz of his poor recovery...

 

[Zeallyx]

He won't be. Toknee started out thinking Falcon would do better and that he was somewhat legit (why else would he post a guide how not to suck as Falcon), but like most lower tier mains, he eventually realized the character has little potential.

wow wow wait
I still think falcon can be 'effective' in the right hands, but he is like the worst character, but he's still a character :D

and I didn't make that guide..it's ayaz's..

 

[The Milk Monster]

I love how Falcon plays, absolutely love it.
But considering his priority, his kill moves being semi situational, he can be tossed around pretty easy, I doubt he'll ever leave bottom tier.
His best meta game, unless like people are saying they find some groundbreaking tech for him that works the best for him, will never be above average, it'll hardly scrape average territory.