Social C. Falcon Social

[bertbusdriver]

I'm ok with gentleman being 'harder' in NTSC. It's a little arbitrary, but it also means people don't respect the option as much at lower levels because they're playing ppl who don't do it well. It's really not that hard to learn... AAA(hold)->interrupt

 

[Twinkles]

on the bright side, weak knee is stronger in ntsc. weak knee -> knee combos in ntsc and not in pal, and that is one thing i am truly thankful for

 

[BTmoney]

when tech chasing falco and you do the d-throw turnaround bair (to cover no tech/tech in place) can you do anything about them teching in (through you)?

 

[Da Shuffla]

Yep. You can regrab.

 

[Equal]

Works especially good on the corners of the stage where you can cover both tech in place / tech away with the bair hitbox.

 

[sam:)]

how good of an approach is wavedashing out of a dash dance and jabbing/gentleman? ive been experimenting with it and wizzy does it a lot in falcon dittos.

also, what chars is it viable against?

 

[Twinkles]

how good of an approach is wavedashing out of a dash dance and jabbing/gentleman? ive been experimenting with it and wizzy does it a lot in falcon dittos.

also, what chars is it viable against?

It's a weird approach, but I imagine you could catch some people off guard with it in if you interrupt a dash-dance or a jump. I'd say it'd be viable against any char that relies heavily on DDing/aerial approaches if you're good at timing it, and it'd be absolutely awful against CC. I don't use WD jab though besides OOS occasionally, so I couldn't tell you how accurate my advice would be.

 

[0Room]

Yo
So weird to be back and see my posts still stickied

But then I looked at it and was like HOLY **** why did I put so much time into that
Anyway
Sup

 

[Twinkles]

Yo
So weird to be back and see my posts still stickied

But then I looked at it and was like HOLY **** why did I put so much time into that
Anyway
Sup

The legend himself
\o/

 

[0Room]

The legend himself
\o/

rofl I ain't no legend son
How you doin

 

[Twinkles]

rofl I ain't no legend son
How you doin

Doing great haha
Just wanted to say thanks for the Falcon Index Thread
Definitely the most comprehensive Falcon resource in the world, and definitely one of the best posts to ever exist.
It's helped me a lot in getting better, so I hella appreciate your effort in putting in together

Hope to see you around more on the falcon boards :> Hope we could meet up at a tourney some day

 

[0Room]

Doing great haha
Just wanted to say thanks for the Falcon Index Thread
Definitely the most comprehensive Falcon resource in the world, and definitely one of the best posts to ever exist.
It's helped me a lot in getting better, so I hella appreciate your effort in putting in together

Hope to see you around more on the falcon boards :> Hope we could meet up at a tourney some day

Haha maybe, unfortunately you live on the other side of the country from me.

As far as the Index thread I'll be honest - I completely forgot I even did that lol
After I saw it I remembered the RIDICULOUS AMOUNT OF HOURS I put into it but after I quit I kind of purged all memories ya know

But yeh if I feel like it I'll have to go through the Mango AMA and post stuff from there too. I know Duckpimp and Snips have had things they would like to update as well
I'm glad it helped you though!

 

[Equal]

So I've noticed lately that I'm getting destroyed by spot dodge shines and my approaches in general are getting spot dodged.

How do I punish spot dodging? Can someone link me a vid of someone doing it very well? Because I can't consistently knee a spotdodge but damn does it feel good when I do.

 

[Da Shuffla]

The key to beating any repeated reaction in this game is baiting.

If someone continually does anything, like spotdodge, this means that it has become a habit. Though you may be losing to it now, this is good news for you. You know that he spotdodges as a panic button, so, as you gain more momentum, he'll keep doing it, and you'll keep punishing it.

So, let's say you are tech chasing a Fox who keeps spotdodge shining you every time you are late on a tech chase. If you feel that you are going to be late, rather than going for it anyway and getting shined, dash in as if you are going for the grab, but then wait(or jab, jab is really good). This will bait out the spot dodge, and you can punish.

Punishing with what depends on percent. At lower percents, grab is usually good. At mid percents Stomp -> Knee. At higher percents, you can just Knee, or Stomp -> Knee, if you feel like it.

Spacies are hard, but Falcon can do it if his tech chases are seamless.

 

[kyaputenfarukon07]

Ya what Da Shuffla defined is related to the basic definition of conditioning the opponent and hes applying the concept. You can start controlling your opponent with this idea and start getting into their mind . Calling them out on stuff like this is the beginning, there are so many ways to condition your opponent and catching them off guard with something different each time. Mango once said that the falcon player needs to develop a "sense" for when the other guy is going to spot dodge and punish them relentlessly.

Falcon is supposed to scare the other guy and make him piss his pants.

You can create a lot of reads with this lmao its fun to do

 

[Equal]

Yeah my real problem was although I could tell when my opponent was going to spotdodge, I just wasn't really sure about what was safe to punish it with, because it seems if I'm just a little too late I'll get shined before I can connect with something.

I think what I'm going to do is jab like shuffla said, and it if whiffs because of spot dodge I can just SHFFL Knee in place and it should connect if I time it quickly enough.


Oh yeah; what happens if you try to Marth Killer a Sheik that's Shino Stalling?

 

[kyaputenfarukon07]

S2j has pivot/normal nair mixups to bait the spot dodges shine where he waits for the shine to come out and when the other guy has jumped out of it, he nairs them since they cant cc in the air. They are so many more fun mix ups to that situation I can think of ,but for that one specifically I think it is the safest because you force a knock down without getting punished hard.


spot dodge spacies

frames 2 -15 invulnerability of 22 frames

falcon jab (note first jab) notation in game recognized as jab1 iirc

active hitbox frames 3 -5 of 21 frames

you have to start jab before the exposed first frame or after 15 frames
(before shine)

or clank with shine like a boss(note ground moves are the only moves that clank iirc)
jab is good mix up now that I realize that

shino stall shiek shield di (marth killer) stuff

that sounds hilarious you probably get pushed off and cant grab the ledge and recovering vs shiek lmao

the shield di tells me get pushed and off stage but I cant say that much because I dont know at which angle up b hitbox creates a pushback + how much shield stun and which part of the shield

 

[Da Shuffla]

As you get more experience, you'll get a feel for when you are late, and you can instead bait out that reaction. Jab is mostly for situations where you aren't exactly sure what move they'll put out first when the tech roll is over. If you know 100% that the spot dodge is coming, I'd go with the grab or stomp to knee.

Lol, clank with shine? I'd have to REAALLLY be feeling myself.

I've never tried to "Marth Killer" Sheik before. Could go south really quickly if she hits you, though.

Oh, and every Falcon should learn how to pivot. At least pivoted aerials. Pivoting jabs is super hard, but it does increase your options, and you can randomly Gentleman out of a dashdance/Foxtrot.

 

[6VI6]

Marth killer does not work on Sheik because Sheik does not undergo hitlag when hitting you/your shield with upB, so she always grabs the ledge first.

(It's considered a projectile, apparently...)

 

[strongboy]

The Captain owns & improving owns. I've started crushing nerds that used to easily 3 stock my falcon & it feels great. Making hard reads & doing even lame combos is fun as hell.

How reliable is nipple spiking? I've been going for a lot of stomps off stage or vs recoveries & its been working mostly because the people I play suck at meteor canceling. Is it a bad habit that I shouldn't develop or can I ever reliably space that **** it into being a good option?

Oh yeah, whats a tournament winner too? Wavedash to edge? I hear it used a lot but never actually picked up on what it was.

 

[kyaputenfarukon07]

Nipple Spike is interesting, I can see potential in its use as a di trap/ mistake finisher. I think the main problem of the move is that stomp takes longer than falcons other aerials giving an opportunity for your opponent to escape. The 2nd problem of that move is that you have space with the head to chest/torso area despite it having a large hitbox. The 3rd problem is that if you overshoot and hit with the backside of nipple hitbox they can land on stage for free center stage position while you are in a limited one.

These are the main reasons why I think knee is favored in return, even if you manage to reverse it they arent going to have many opportunities for positional advantage/ standing on stage. I think there are more reasons lololololol

Nipple Spike for swag points is always rewarding

lololololllolol

 

[strongboy]

Yeah, I guess it wouldn't be bad for covering spacie side b? Big hitbox so you could cover on stage with nipple hitbox and edge with the meteor. Bair or knee is probably better but I like doing dumb falcon ****.

 

[kyaputenfarukon07]

That would be a sweet read and godlike timing for that read on the side b. If you wanna rub it in the spacies players face I think its good move to do it with. lolololololl

 

[Da Shuffla]

At that point, you could probably get away with a Falcon Punch

 

[bertbusdriver]

Nipple spike is great when you get that perfect percent for stomp (pop up) -> stomp (nipple spike into abyss) near the edge. Otherwise, it's situational. Sometimes when peach/marth DI's in on your uair strings you can get one off too if knee might not kill (lower percent, not too close to blastzone). Off the ledge, invincible ledgehop reverse knee is better than trying to line up a nipple spike because the cases where dair works better off ledge are when you need to hit them while they're below you to force a meteor cancel or tech then cover it/ hope they miss meteor cancel.

God i suck terrible **** when I don't warm up. Went 2 and out for the first time in years last night. Norcal too hard. Feeling good about TBH4 now that I got that terrible performance out of my system ROFL

 

[-ACE-]

http://smashboards.com/threads/techchasing-into-2015-metagame-and-theory.369684/

What up falcon mains, I figured I'd share this Ganon techchasing thread with you guys. Techchasing is more intricate with falcon as he has more options, but some principles still apply. Feel free to contribute to my thread, and I encourage any eager falcon main to make a similar thread if they want to.

 

[Equal]

Yo last night at SSS s2j was using some newer tech that has me hype for what he has in store the future. I saw him wavedash OoS, a hax dash or two, single hit nair jab resets. I was losing my mind.

 

[Da Shuffla]

Any sets in particular?

 

[kyaputenfarukon07]

he used a lot more than that looooool

• shield drops to escape platform pressure
  
• wd oos hes has been using that for awhile
• hes also using shield di to make wdoos more safer despite being 2 inches away from whatever pressure
• haxdashing wasnt something he was comfortable with at awhile back but now hes confident with it
• single hit nair jab reset is cool he hasnt been using that frequently, but its a good reset for hard read coverage mixups if they missed their tech(from a move that can create knockdown that sends them away like nair, slightly - well away di uair and soft knee fear mixup)
  
• hes been using side b a lot more than he used to(more so to bring back 3/4 option coverage from 2011-2012 back)
  
• he also did shield to shield di to drop shield to side b using it as a mix up/bait out shine jumps (and probably held both stick to dsdi cc during the animation so he can get amsah tech/get up tech grab if it doesnt work) only once vs westballz on pokemon stadium
  
• crouch cancel slide off momentum ledgecancel on platforms to escape punishment - that was new to me
• hes been spacing around the utilts and bairs much better
  
• more physical powershield baits/ neutral game reset/reads/unexpectedly cause I dont know how he gets those

drink loooooooots of water looooooooooooool SMOKE2JUGZ

hydration is good

 

[carnivore]

also noticed he used a lot of ftilts to try and cover his back on cross ups, sometimes just spaced ftilt after aerial for possible safe damage (things i've thought ftilt might be good for in the past)

 

[BluntedMask]

http://www.twitch.tv/snowman/b/572716859?t=3h38m31s

Yo if you guys would be so kind as to critique this.

 

[bertbusdriver]

http://www.twitch.tv/snowman/b/572716859?t=3h38m31s

Yo if you guys would be so kind as to critique this.

There's a Falcon Video Critique Thread, although activity on the boards is low enough that I'm sure no one would miss this anyway, and posting in Falcon Social is probably fine...

Jesiah is a solid marth. You need to work hard and smart to get decent openings in this matchup. Game 1 was solid, you obviously broke down a little mentally game 2.

You need to work on your ledge and offstage game. That last bair attempt kind of cost you at the end of game 1 haha. You also DJed straight into his dtilt when going for ledge. Def need to be more cognizant of that. Refreshing invincibility at ledge is crucial vs marth. poor ledge refreshes led to getting hit a couple times too. 20xx hack pack is great for this.

raw knee in neutral isn't very good unless they've already overcommitted to something by being airborne or whiffing. Alternatively it's also much better when Marth has a lot less stage control (ie: less stage to DD back and retreat) He like WD'd back or shielded a couple. If you're really gonna hit a shield with knee, it's gotta be the lowest possible hard knee to be safe.

Corner pressure was kinda wack from Jesiah, and I feel like he kinda let you go for free for jumping when you were cornered.

I would consider another stage for CP besides the salty, but that's just me. Assuming he banned DL, PS would be a decent choice. This is personal preference though... Nowadays I rarely go for the runback unless I'm 100% sure my loss was fraudulent (I SD'd or something) or if I thought the stage we struck to was already my best chance to win. With some platforms at least you get the option to recover high and go for ledge cancels. Marth also gets pretty boned when he's trapped above you on a platform, and your tech chase coverage increases with high reward options like stomp and knee.

After killing him you were in a bad position a couple of times before his invincibility ended. Run away more?

Stage control is so crucial against marth.... Once he has you cornered he becomes so much better, and vice versa. Think about things that cause him to retreat for a low potential cost to you. How can you space your DD and feigned hits to make the marth give up space with little chance that he will hit you for it?

I think I say this in every falcon critique I do: WD OOS IS GOOD.

 

[onehunna]

Everyone needs to go watch the VODs from that most recent SSS (I've linked top 3), Johnny was doing some ridiculous stuff as was mentioned. A lot to dissect and learn from here.

 

[Da Shuffla]

http://meleeitonme.tumblr.com/post/98737547723/s2j-vs-lucky

 

[Twinkles]

Just wanted to post some cursory thoughts I had after playing some friendlies with s2j
Hold down and tank hits with Falcon -> immediately move away is fricking amazing
Hold down when you hit a platform = avoid most followups really easily

s2j's ability to find freedom of movement in the most confined situations is ridiculous. it feels literally impossible to contain him.

 

[Windrose]

Does s2j come here anymore?

 

[kyaputenfarukon07]

He doesnt post too much for some reason, his last post was before apex 2014 .

 

[strongboy]

I'm having trouble getting uthrow => knee vs Marth. I get it fine vs Shiek but it seems whenever I try and pull it on Marth I get in knee range too late. Any idea what I'm ****ing up?

 

[Da Shuffla]

Starts working at 68.

 

[bertbusdriver]

that feel when you practice your ledge game for 40 minutes the night before a tournament and it completely fails you...