colored blind
Smash Journeyman
Because otherwise it's just another Final Destination.
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Brawlplusery Official Codeset 5.0 RC1 Discussion
- Thread starter shanus
- Start date
- Status
WheelOfFish
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2009
- Messages
- 387
A really looooooong final destination with even more messed up ledges XD
The sandbag helps make the stage more neutral IMO. Solid doubles stage.
The sandbag helps make the stage more neutral IMO. Solid doubles stage.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
the ledges are definitely not more messed up. if anything they're about as good as BF.
additionally, the sandbag ruins approaches for projectile characters like falco and samus. if a stage is at a strong disadvantage for a character i don't really see it as being neutral.
it is good, for doubles, though. but only doubles.
but i don't want to start this **** again, so whatever.
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
Except without the sandbag projectile characters like Falco and Samus get a huge advantage, which they already get on FD as well.
Shadic
Alakadoof?
The camera just needs to not follow Sandbag.
MK26
Smash Master
i think it would be ideal if we could disengage the camera from sandbag, but have it show up in one of those bubbles when its offscreen
also, its too large to be a neutral for singles, but its basically perfect for doubles...likewise warioware is too large for doubles but no problem for singles
while were on this topic, people who put lylat and ww as cps make me
also, its too large to be a neutral for singles, but its basically perfect for doubles...likewise warioware is too large for doubles but no problem for singles
while were on this topic, people who put lylat and ww as cps make me
SymphonicSage12
Smash Master
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2009
- Messages
- 3,299
The sandbag is amazing. **** off, haters.
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
i have asked this before but never really got a answer.
Why not just change lucarios up-B so it has a hit-box instead of this weird no free-fall thing
Why not just change lucarios up-B so it has a hit-box instead of this weird no free-fall thing
-Chad-
Slackerator
^^^
I would love that idea, his up-b is ridiculously good as it is now.
I would love that idea, his up-b is ridiculously good as it is now.
Because you wouldnt be able to chase with it? It has quite a bit of utility when it comes to edgeguarding (and even has some uses onstage as well). You should ask the Lucario+ players if you want to know more about it.
-Chad-
Slackerator
Why is it fair that Lucario gets not only a very safe recovery move but it also doubles to edgegaurd those less fortunate that aren't favored by Brawl+'s community?
KOkingpin
Smash Champion
Put it back like it was in vBrawl. I never need to be changed (cept maybe the end lag)
KOkingpin
Smash Champion
ok
@ Shanus - Lucario's Up B should be like vBrawl but with the end lag like it is now. Cause hitting after using it is completely unnecessary. Im for giving him a hit box on it to make it a bit safer than vBrawl, But the ability to punish after using up b is over kill.
There you go neko.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
KOkingpin
Smash Champion
-Chad-
Slackerator
Too much unconstructive chatter >_>
Give it a hitbox, make it safer but also make it punishable, cmon.
Give it a hitbox, make it safer but also make it punishable, cmon.
CloneHat
Smash Champion
Just make it not auto snap. That would make it a bit more REASONABLE in relation to the rest of the cast. The auto snap is a flaw, a mistake, and should be dealt with immediately.
-Chad-
Slackerator
Then it'd still be nearly unpunishable. Lucario would just sweetspot and if anyone tried to grab the ledge from him he can still d-air and hold his position. It'd still also be crazy in the instances that he's hit up and away toward the corners cause he can up-b and still attack.
CloneHat
Smash Champion
How about hitbox, no auto snap, and freefall after use?
It would STILL be really good.
It would STILL be really good.
KOkingpin
Smash Champion
yes it would but it would be more manageable not as Overpowered as it is right now.
-Chad-
Slackerator
It'd be more on par with other characters with similar recoveries that do not have the ability to attack afterwords.
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
I like the way you make the main point of the matter his recovery being good, and treat the ability to edgeguard using his upB as a secondary effect. It's actually the complete opposite. The reason we gave him no endlag afterward was so he could use the move offensively; improving his recovery is the secondary effect. If we were to nerf anything about it at this point it would not be taking back the no freefall, or anything else related to its use as an offensive move. Any nerf made would be specifically targeted toward hampering his recovery, and leaving everything else as close as possible to its current form.
CloneHat
Smash Champion
That makes sense, but there is NO reason Lucario should have auto snap. First of all, Lucario doesn't need it, and secondly, even if he did, his recovery should be supplemented in a different way. Auto snap is a gameplay flaw, and all characters must be dealt with equally.
-Chad-
Slackerator
How would you be able to do that? Anything you do to his up-b will in turn affect it's offensive ability as well I would think.
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
Well, CloneHat pretty much said the only thing I could think of off the top of my head that chiefly affects his recovery and not his ability to use the move offensively. It doesn't mean it's the only thing possible we can do, and it doesn't mean it will even work. And it most certainly doesn't mean that this will make it in the set anytime soon. Note that since lucario is not an overpowered character right now at all, the chances of nerfs going through (especially ones as extreme as you were suggesting) are slim.
KOkingpin
Smash Champion
just gonna focus on this part right here. This buff to Lucario's Up-B was extreme. The nerf we are talking about isn't even that big of a deal. Take something away that's pretty game changing (Non-free fall) and give it something it STILL doesn't need in return (A hit box to make it a bit safer).
But yeah I'm gonna stop arguing here with you because you are such a closed minded individual. I'll play whatever you guys put out. But since my input and pretty much our whole community's input doesn't matter to you I'll just stop posting my opinions.
-Chad-
Slackerator
Why do so many people feel the need to make snide comments instead of being productive?
Because being productive is for scrubs.
But really. The person to talk to about this Shanus. Not workshop.
That and changes still wont be made atm. What you're asking for is a pretty large metagame changing..change.
The reasons you have on the table aren't strong enough to change up-b atm.
And more stuff I don't want to list. :/
hang in the IRC, and hit up shanus when you get the chance.
But really. The person to talk to about this Shanus. Not workshop.
That and changes still wont be made atm. What you're asking for is a pretty large metagame changing..change.
The reasons you have on the table aren't strong enough to change up-b atm.
And more stuff I don't want to list. :/
hang in the IRC, and hit up shanus when you get the chance.
-Chad-
Slackerator
I would rarely have time to spend in an IRC channel
This is pretty much the only place to share my opinions on B+ (unless there's a better forum/thread for it :o)
This is pretty much the only place to share my opinions on B+ (unless there's a better forum/thread for it :o)
I've got a quick question regarding what it is that the codeset relies on to determine region. I'm a PAL user and was wondering if it would be worth it looking into a NTSC import of SSB Brawl because as much as I try applying it to my seemingly inferior PAL version (I am using the right codeset, I've tried countless identical dumps of B+ PAL SD setups), everything is to no avail (and plus, I just got paid so nows about the right time to justify ludicrous expenditure). Is it the console or the game itself that denotes the region? Thanks.
shanus
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 6,055
As leaf pointed out, the intent with lucarios no freefall upB was meant to be used as an incentive for offense.
If you look at lucario, he can camp fairly effectively against a lot of characters with aura sphere because his approaches are insanely predictable. In an effort to encourage offense, extreme speed with no freefall encourages a new mixup approach that adds incredible variety into gameplay which can make lucario a real mindgamey character as well.
The main isssue is that it also buffs his recovery, and here is what I have to say to it. Lucario is in his travel state for a long time and is extremely susceptible to being punished then. However, there is a problem because he can autosnap at any time from it. So if he is recovering from below, due to the ******** size of ledge grab range and his autosnap, ledgedrop edgeguards can often prove pointless. Removing his ability to autosnap (its trivial) will effectively make it so that he should be significantly easier to edgeguard from below. Sure, he can;t be edgeguarded from an upwards recovery position, but removing autosnap also removes some fancy methods for his edgeguarding as well.
Additionally, to many players, this change is in fact one of their favorite ones made in the game because it makes a character so much richer in play. Just as giving fox's shine a JC with nerfs to dair, I think giving extreme speed no freefall with nerfs to autosnap are entirely justified to enhance a character from mindless camping to something more.
All in all, giving extreme speed a hitbox is just taking a close minded approach to something diversifying in his gameplay from the rest of the cast.
Doval
Smash Lord
I am not arguing for either side but bear in mind that:
1) The Backroom has a good track record when it comes to changing characters.
2) The Backroom tests their ****.
3) The community's input isn't always right. Not saying this is your case. Not saying it's not either.
4) If it isn't broken, don't fix it. Tournament results will dictate whether Lucario's Up+B deserves a nerf or not.
5) The game needs to be left alone for a while so said tournament results can be obtained and analyzed and the next set of adjustments can be decided on wisely.
shanus
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 6,055
In regards to number 2, lets just ignore Ness and Falcon in this build haha
WheelOfFish
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2009
- Messages
- 387
Wait, Falcon is ridiculous in this build?
I haven't played him or against him seriously in this build. What's the problem?
The autosnap ledge thing still needs fixed for Lucario. No doubt about that. I don't care about the freefall/hitbox/whatever that much.
I haven't played him or against him seriously in this build. What's the problem?
The autosnap ledge thing still needs fixed for Lucario. No doubt about that. I don't care about the freefall/hitbox/whatever that much.
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
How about instead of just calling me "closed-minded" whenever I happen to disagree with you, you use your head and think about why I might disagree? Have you ever thought that I might have - just maybe - been in arguments about these same things before and have already come to a conclusion about them because I've already seen the same arguments you're presenting now and then some? Have you ever thought that it's possible for someone to have a different opinion than you? That they might actually have done some research to obtain that opinion, and that it isn't just a baseless statement they're throwing out there for the sake of it? If I hear a compelling argument, I would have no choice but to agree with it, but when I hear stuff that clearly isn't well thought out why should I be expected to suddenly believe it as if it's the ultimate truth?
What I love the most is that you think you can get away with calling me "closed-minded," when you can't even see what the effects are of your own suggestions, or understand the purpose of the changes to begin with. You are the one who is only seeing what you want to see. You are the one who is "closed-minded."
You think the nerf you're proposing isn't a big deal? Really? Tell that to the players that have been using lucario for the past several months with a no freefall upB and have learned how to use it offensively. When it was first implemented, the no freefall upB was game-changing, yes. But taking it away now would be even more game-changing, at a time we want more stabilization. You keep trying to suggest that a hitbox on his upB to aid his recovery will somehow make up for the loss of no freefall. It doesn't. At all. A hitbox on upB is only useful as a recovery buff. We didn't give him no freefall upB as a recovery buff. He'd lose out on all the other uses for upB besides recovery, which you just don't seem to see. And yet, apparently I'm the "closed-minded" one.
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