• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Brawl will have backwards progression (which is a bad thing)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Rhubarbo

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
2,035
Right now, I'd prefer that, I'd actually even prefer Melee with online. If they did that, they'd have to make the online really robust. Here's what we could have had:

-Online clans
-Online tourneys
-Lobbies
-Quick search function (with settings)
-List of friends
-Seeing names of other random fighters
-Rankings
-Leaderboards

Of course, if they did this, people wouldn't like the fact that the characters would be the same. They'd probably stuff the roster with a bunch of clones or alternate costumes. I'd accept that personally. Of course there would also be a ROBUST single player that lasted for a while and actually had a story revolving around the characters in it.

Yeah, I think I'd like a true Melee 1.5 because it would simply have better gameplay.
 

Jack Kieser

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
2,961
Location
Seattle, WA
WRONG. We've had our top Melee players on it, which are now obsolete...

Melee pros=/=Brawl pros, it's like saying that a Basketball pro would be able to perfect the game of Golf...
In all fairness... I can't really argue with that. Although I've always been against using a Melee mindset to analyze Brawl, I never really thought about what you just said... so kudos. ^_^
 

Adi

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
1,505
Location
New Paltz, NY
S0crat3s said:
WRONG. We've had our top Melee players on it, which are now obsolete...

Melee pros=/=Brawl pros, it's like saying that a Basketball pro would be able to perfect the game of Golf...
Melee is much more similar to Brawl then Basketball is to Golf. A more realistic analysis would be comparing Halo 1 players moving to Halo 2. It was vastly different in terms of mechanics but the same basic principles applied to both.
 

hippochinfat!!

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
1,814
Location
Toronto
To LeeHarris:

You seem to really want Melee dead when you come here to claim such thing. But for your information, Melee is far from dead. As long as people have tournaments, it will not die. And btw, even while lots of players enjoy brawl now, lots of competitive players, aka those that held melee tournaments are liking melee more than brawl.

Also, here's an example why good games will never die: Metroid Prime 1, the fine masterpiece as it is, is still being played even while MP2 and MP3 have basically the same concept. But MP1 was the one that did it the best, thus it was praised and has the most speed runs and tricks both games combined, latest being from the end of 2007. I still do not see a speed run done from MP3, but it wasn't cause the community didn't try... it was because the game creators decided it was good to make a linear game and try a different approach to make a more un-Metroidish game. Needless to say, it was fun for a while, but didn't match the glory that was Metroid Prime 1.

I'd also like to point out that Super Metroid still enjoys wide popularity among the metroid fans, more so than the new Metroid games like MZM and is still being speed run. All this speed running and sequence breaking can be compared to the competitive aspects of melee, or any other game.
But that's like saying the original Starfox is not dead because some people do sometimes still play it despite the fact that the other 4 starfox games exist.

Melee still will have people playing it but there will be much less people playing and there will probaly be a much much smaller competitve scene.
 

Samochan

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Messages
3,450
Location
I'm in your house, dsmashing your tv
WRONG. We've had our top Melee players on it, which are now obsolete...

Melee pros=/=Brawl pros, it's like saying that a Basketball pro would be able to perfect the game of Golf...
So... what you're saying is, the top melee players were smart enough to play melee on top but somehow lost their ability to play smart on brawl? Or maybe what you were implying that the people that were not smart enough to play melee on top level are somehow now smarter and can play brawl on higher level?

It doesn't happen. >_>
 

S0crat3s

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
158
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
In all fairness... I can't really argue with that. Although I've always been against using a Melee mindset to analyze Brawl, I never really thought about what you just said... so kudos. ^_^
Exactly...While Gimpy is boasting about "experimenting thoroughly" with Brawl, he can't progress nearly as far as someone who never got into the Melee technical scene...I, to be honest, have lost all respect for the guy, seeing his losing mindset of "We already know everything there is to know about Brawl, it sucks, so lets just give up on it and go back to Melee," which is the equivalent of trying to do CPR on an alien the wrong way and proclaiming it dead, instead of leaving it to the other aliens to fix it...*brick*

Do I think that we should give up on Brawl? Hell no! Such a whining, loser attitude should be left for schoolchildren who refuse to learn a different language because it is not their own...
 

Pink Reaper

Real Name No Gimmicks
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
8,333
Location
In the Air, Using Up b as an offensive move
WRONG. We've had our top Melee players on it, which are now obsolete...

Melee pros=/=Brawl pros, it's like saying that a Basketball pro would be able to perfect the game of Golf...
Melee pros DO however have the insight on how to break a game, and the fact that they can't means Brawl isn't going to get much better.

Also, Brawl and Melee are both SMASH BROS. GAMES. Being good at Melee will transfer at least to some extent to Brawl.
 

S0crat3s

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 3, 2008
Messages
158
Location
Mushroom Kingdom
So... what you're saying is, the top melee players were smart enough to play melee on top but somehow lost their ability to play smart on brawl? Or maybe what you were implying that the people that were not smart enough to play melee on top level are somehow now smarter and can play brawl on higher level?

It doesn't happen. >_>
No, what I'm saying is that just because you were professional at Melee, "on top of your game," so to speak, doesn't mean that it is definite that you will have just as much skill in Brawl...It doesn't mean that Melee pros CAN'T be Brawl pros, just that there is a big difference between the two...
 

LeeHarris

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
1,946
Location
New Braunfels / San Antonio / Austin, TX
To LeeHarris:

You seem to really want Melee dead when you come here to claim such thing. But for your information, Melee is far from dead. As long as people have tournaments, it will not die. And btw, even while lots of players enjoy brawl now, lots of competitive players, aka those that held melee tournaments are liking melee more than brawl.
Haha, uh oh. All of those competitive players?! Is that some mystical thing like a Unicorn? And those tournament organizers - they must be like gods among men!

Check my profile and you'll see I'm a back room member and I have hosted several tournaments. We just had a thread in the SBR to see if anyone was sticking with Melee and the entire thread said they won't even touch Melee again. Oops, there goes your theory. Most people who are clinging on to this game were never that good in the first place or they just joined the competitive scene within the last few years. Everyone else is ready to move on.
 

Mr.E

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Messages
1,520
Location
Lima, Ohio
You downplay the heck out of mindgames that it's shameful. Combos and setups are useless if you can't land them on a smart opponent. The core to every fighting game, real fighting, and most competitive anything is mindgames. The ability to play smart and fool/overwhelm/predict your opponents moves and abuse them. Competitive players get to a point where tech skill is at a competitive standard. In traditional fighters this level of tech skill in general is much higher than that of Melee (and INFINITELY higher than Brawl). Tech skill typically isn't the thing that divides the good competitive players from the best. Combos are merely the best way to cause the most damage once you create an opening. Muscle memory is important, but the true division of skill in pretty much every competitive fighter is how smart you play.
If tech skill is merely the status quo at competitive levels and isn't the primary determinant for how truly skillful a player is, then why does it matter that Brawl has a lower threshhold in this area?

I never was a competitive Melee player, in part because NW Ohio doesn't have much opportunity without driving at least 3-4 hours away where my at-the-time high school years did not allow me to venture. Enough about that, though. My Wavedashing was mediocre and you'd never see me drillshine someone across the stage or SHFF laser spam to perfection. But I still have enough mechanical skill -- good at L-cancelling, spacing attacks, setting up gimps with a short juggle or combo -- that I can reliably beat most any player that wasn't at your level of competition. Likewise, I believe Brawl has enough basic tech skill present to seperate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. It's just accessible to more people now.

In brawl, while you can still punish, it's AMAZINGLY hard to do so. It's also limiting in what you can do to punish. No matter how skilled we get, we won't be able to punish mistakes properly because most characters are literally unable to place a move in the time it takes to get out of stun, bring up a shield, etc. What does this mean? It means that we can get away with stupid *** ****. It means that you can camp an entire match, and if they break through your camping every now and then you will be alright cause they can't punish you very severely and you won't even take much damage. This is a problem.
But doesn't that also apply to the defender? Even if an aggressor makes a poor approach on a camper, will their punishment not also be minor? It just seems to me that the risk/reward is still the same ratio, but toned down in scale. (i.e. Your punishment or reward are still equal, simply more total mistakes must be made before the match is decided.)

Chipping away at each other from across the stage is not really any more "safe" than exchanging blows up-close, since both players will accumulate some damage. They'll eventually have to approach anyway to make the killing blow, since few projectiles have anywhere near the killing power of your average melee attack.

Get off your proverbial *** and go after your opponent! Play Meta Knight, he has a terrible camping game but he's supposedly pretty darned good anyway. Didn't G&W take the top two places at the first major Brawl tourney? Is G&W a master of camping with his amazing projectile and ridiculous grab range? (all sarcasm) Marth can "camp" to some extent, but he can't play run-away and he's forced aggressive against any projectile user. Jigglypuff, Wario, and Sonic are three more options that will probably be lower-tier, all of whom are so quick they can't be avoided long enough to set up shop. Hell, play a campy character like Zelda or Snake and use their powers for good instead of evil. Camping is not the only viable strategy, it's merely the easiest. However, you can't expect another strategy to take hold if you don't even try to develop them.

Except for every good player that is close enough to take immediate advantage over your trip, in which your "mindgame" only makes you vulnerable for even longer. That's like saying not teching and laying on the ground for a bit in a match is an unbeatable "mind game."
Too bad just about everyone is too busy camping the opposite ledge, crying about how there is no other viable way to win, to take advantage of tripping on my ***. :rolleyes:

Let's see, what can you do after you land the first hit... ummm...
1.) Make a failed attempt at stringing it into another hit because the opponent recovered too quickly.
or
2.) Retreat, go back to square one, and try to find another opening to get a single hit in.
You still have tempo. You can't open up a canned combo now, but you're still in an advantageous position to continue striking while your opponent has to be more concerned with simply getting back to a safe/neutral position. Few characters are safe from below, a tumbling opponent is no match for a firmly grounded character, being hit off the ledge prevents any significant retaliation as returning to the stage becomes the primary concern.

(And all the DI talk is crap, since it's too inconsequential to escape most combos below 40%, even upwards of 70% depending on the match-up; Jigglypuff dies to a Fox/Falco UAir by mid-50's, Jigglypuff itself can Rest the Spacies long before then, and many other reliable combos against many characters set up extremely easy low-percent gimps. Now perhaps Brawl really did tone it down too much, but it doesn't take away that Melee is arguably just as bad in the other direction. Is it really fair that Bowser, whose size and weight should by all accounts make him one of the toughest nuts to crack, be easily carried off-stage by a single combo and gimped by almost every character before even hitting 80%?)
 

Jack Kieser

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
2,961
Location
Seattle, WA
So, Mr. E took care of things for me; thanks for that, because I don't think I want to pursue this argument any longer... you know, with us FREAKING BREAKING SMASHBOARDS! Haha! Seriously, guys. If we haven't learned anything yet, I think it's time we take a lesson away from this and give this **** a rest.

It's obvious the forums have had enough. Let's at least take five and see how things play out.
 

Veil2222

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
204
Both of ya aren't doing anything for this thread. I don't need some random internet guy telling me Brawl is better than Melee, nor do I need some other random internet guy telling me the first guy is a scrub and shouldn't be listened to. Neither of you have any credibility because you're both being irrelevant and immature.
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
5,384
Location
Umeå, Sweden
If tech skill is merely the status quo at competitive levels and isn't the primary determinant for how truly skillful a player is, then why does it matter that Brawl has a lower threshhold in this area?
Because you have less options. They took away most of the technical aspects but replaced it with nothing. This is the biggest reason. Another reason is that there should be some importance with execution in your play. Brawl doesn't offer much in the ways of technically challenging aspects. While you may not like to play technical, many other people do. Honestly, I wasn't very technical and cause of that I played Marth. With Melee you had the option to go crazy into the technical game, or a more lax route. The amount of technical skill needed to play Marth well on the standard tournament level isn't very high, but people just like to have instant gratification these days and aren't willing to work at it apparently.
However, you can't expect another strategy to take hold if you don't even try to develop them.
You make the assumption that I'm not trying to learn how to get around camping. One of my mains is Sonic, and I do pretty well with him, even online where it's amazingly hard to play Sonic due to the accuracy you need to have with him. My Sonic isn't that bad either, ESPECIALLY considering my location. Just ask G-reg.
Too bad just about everyone is too busy camping the opposite ledge, crying about how there is no other viable way to win, to take advantage of tripping on my ***.
You said it yourself, at some point you have to get in close to finish the stock. Considering that you aren't moving much while camping, you are most likely to trip when you are near your opponent. Also, like RDK said, you tend to trip at the worst possible moments. So yeah, don't act as if tripping still won't be an issue. It will decide more matches than explosive item spawns.
 

Pythag

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
May 7, 2007
Messages
2,627
Location
Flux
The way I see it, Brawl is like Windows Vista.
To those who have never seen a computer (see THE AMISH), it's going to be phenomenal.
Everyone else with be back to using XP.


This isn't to say that I don't like brawl and it isn't that I love melee.
I'm a DK main, so it's either: "do I want to be shine spiked or infinite grabbed to death?"
Both are fun, and I'm good at both. I'll let the community decide what's to be the competitive norm.










...I bet Sakurai uses Vista.
 

chic

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
995
Location
toad town, mushroom kingdom
Melee had a small competitive scene compared to the big boys
Brawl will have a small competitive scene compared to the big boys

What did you guys expect? That brawl was going to be the next cs 1.6 and have million dollar tournys or something?
 

jwj442

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Messages
212
Im sorry but brawl has reached this point.
Yeah, anyone can beat anyone. That's why Azen, Chillin, Forte, and G-reg placed top 4 at two Brawl tourneys two weeks in a row. In that order both times, I think.
 

DSM01

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
87
Sadly, I think we all have to agree. At some point, the defensive aspects of the game will simply dominate all gameplay, and we'll all be reduced to playing 1P Modes.
 

The_Smash_Champ

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Oct 9, 2005
Messages
397
Yeah, anyone can beat anyone. That's why Azen, Chillin, Forte, and G-reg placed top 4 at two Brawl tourneys two weeks in a row. In that order both times, I think.
Lol you miss the point, Good Melee players can play brawl good easely, melee is just a deeper, faster game that involves faster thinking and more knowledge and techniques than brawl, not by a little but by quite a bit.
 

The_Smash_Champ

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Oct 9, 2005
Messages
397
Yeah, anyone can beat anyone. That's why Azen, Chillin, Forte, and G-reg placed top 4 at two Brawl tourneys two weeks in a row. In that order both times, I think.
Lol you miss the point, Good Melee players can play brawl good easely, melee is just a deeper, faster game that involves faster thinking and more knowledge and techniques than brawl, not by a little but by quite a bit.
 

King~

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
2,454
Location
Chi-town, come at me
I dont understand it, if you people are so good then why can't you win?

What is it, this lack of techinique cause's you to be garbage.

Since the physics are so simple and you can recover so quickly why don't you captilize. Last time i checked both you and your opponet trip so i don't see what the problem is there. its all about captalizing on the new system in this game.


i have nothing against melee i had been playin since 2002 mostly on three stages with no items. i had fun and got pretty good with skills no technique though. it just dosen't make sense to me that people who used to be so talented with a little technique and skill., can't play when its stripped down to just skill. if you use a little skill you can find ways around your dillemas with the game.(IE: Campin)


somebody has to win and somebody has to lose, its as simple as that. isn't that competiton enough
 

PK-ow!

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,890
Location
Canada, ON
I believe you’re underestimating just how much Combo’s have been taken out of the equation.
See, in 64 Combos were dominant. It became whoever could hit the other first, got the stock.
In Melee, combos was still a valuable offense but, it was balanced so that the defensive could break a combo provided they tried hard enough. They still were punished with some damage but, they made a mistake to get combed in the first place so, it was far.
In Brawl whoever, Combos are almost non-existent. The defense could break free of a combo with little punishment received.
So, know that the combo has been taken out, what is there to replace it? What’s the alternative?
This is the text block that brought me around to this view.

It seems then that what Brawl could have done, was have the same proportion of 'combo punish power' to 'escape alive but scathed' as Melee did, but to try and reduce the speed and technicality of Melee (I think my reason for thinking Melee was too fast is clear; I know I might get flak for arguing for reduced technicality).

But Brawl didn't do this. And these awesome defense techniques are compounding *this* problem with the camping problem (something I'm starting to see as a real problem).

:(
 

RDK

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
6,390
Fighting for Melee? Who are you fighting against? What are you fighting for? You want it to stay active and competitive? Fine! Host tournaments and play with people who are willing to come. In the mean time, the people who like Brawl will form the Brawl competitive scene. If Melee lives on, neato mosquito. More power to you guys for keeping it together. I, and everyone else who likes Brawl, don't really care though and are sick of seeing constant garbage coming from people who don't like it. If you don't like it, DON'T PLAY IT! How much more simple can I put it?

Does this work for you:
UGH UGH BRAWL NO PLAYEY RARGH UGH MAKE MELEE TOURNAMENT OOGH FIRE PRETTY

What do you want? Do you want a hug? Do you want everyone to come back to Melee? Like I said, people who like Brawl will stick with Brawl and vice versa. All you're doing is annoying most of the people on the Brawl boards.
Seeing as how the majority of Brawl Board users have an IQ equivalent to that of a bar of soap, that doesn't really bother me much.

And where is M3D getting these statistics about the ratio of anti-Brawl people to Brawl people among competitives? You obviously have little experience in the competitive circle if you think that the majority of them like Brawl. M3D, Forward, and AlphaZealot pretty much stand alone on this one.

Ask most other well-known competitives about their feelings towards Brawl. PC Chris, Wes, HugS, MikeG, Ankoku, Nealdt....the list goes on and on.

Even Gimpyfish, the patron saint of the Brawl Boards, is the one who's made some of the most anti-Brawl arguments to date.

Melee is hardly dead. Don't forget--it's BRAWL that's on trial, not Melee.
 

verditude

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
346
True, the defensive options in Brawl are less tapped than the offensive options at this point; however, it's not like a defensive advantage makes Brawl unplayable on a competitive level.

I know the game was not intended to be played competitively, but Melee wasn't either. Look how that turned out.

I know, combos will be shorter when people start to learn how to really play defensively. However, a game with few inescapable combos is not necessarily bad. It will just be about prediction and adapting instead of guaranteed preplanned strings. Airdodges are punishable - they do have lag on the end. Due to the lack of hitstun, predicting opponents' airdodges will become a crucial part of "combos" (technically, strings, but w/e.)

I know that some Melee players developed dynamic combos that changed on the fly, reading the opponent's DI and following up. This will have to be taken a step further in Brawl, to predicting airdodges.

I know, edgeguarding is more difficult than it was in Melee. However, Brawl's edgeguarding tactics still need to be developed. It seems obvious that Sakurai is placing more of an emphasis on meteors and jumping out after your opponents to edgeguard, as opposed to from the stage guarding.

I know that the shielding system favors the defensive player, but approaches will become more developed over time as the buffer system is figured out. Many characters have low lag aerials that can be buffered into a spotdodge to avoid shield grabbing; other slow characters have aerial grabs.

I know that some people will take it upon themselves to create a competitive Brawl scene, whether or not the game really lends itself to high-level competitive play. So, even if Melee is truly a more competitive game, lots of people will still move on to Brawl and make it respectable.
 

Future

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
6
So I'm not really a Smasher to any extent but I have been a gamer for many years. I played Halo ever since the beginning and the transition from Melee to Brawl is sort of similar to the transition between Halo 1 and Halo 2. You guys have to understand, though you may think that you have the game fully figured out, you really don't. There were things that you were still figuring out in Melee and Halo 1 was the same way.. Halo 1 was a little past his prime but still great and that's where Melee was. Melee was a great game with great glitches that MADE the game... and eventually, just like Halo 2, Brawl will find it's glitches that will MAKE the game and Brawl will become a great game...

through that transition time that could take years, unfortunately, there will be pro Smashers who will stop playing and it happens...

Brawl will have it's peak, whether it is going to be as great as Melee's is debatable beyond belief and is just going to waste everyone's time doing so.
 

Shai Hulud

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
1,495
Location
Oregon
So I'm not really a Smasher to any extent but I have been a gamer for many years. I played Halo ever since the beginning and the transition from Melee to Brawl is sort of similar to the transition between Halo 1 and Halo 2. You guys have to understand, though you may think that you have the game fully figured out, you really don't. There were things that you were still figuring out in Melee and Halo 1 was the same way.. Halo 1 was a little past his prime but still great and that's where Melee was. Melee was a great game with great glitches that MADE the game... and eventually, just like Halo 2, Brawl will find it's glitches that will MAKE the game and Brawl will become a great game...

through that transition time that could take years, unfortunately, there will be pro Smashers who will stop playing and it happens...

Brawl will have it's peak, whether it is going to be as great as Melee's is debatable beyond belief and is just going to waste everyone's time doing so.
I came from the Halo community as well and while there is some merit to the comparison, I don't think Brawl will find anything to save itself because the changes to the engine are too significant.

Changes from Halo CE to Halo 2 were mostly a series of minor changes that cumulatively made for a weaker game. For instance, larger hit boxes for online play, instant-explosion grenades, easier melees, more auto-aim, more reticule magnetism, less balanced maps, broken weapons (plasma pistol...). It was still very recognizably Halo and the game felt more or less the same, the largest MAJOR changes being the decreased viewing angle from 90 to 70 degrees, the decreased run speed, and the introduction of a hit-scan based projectile system. But someone good at Halo CE could pick up Halo 2 with no problem and in fact might not even notice some of these changes without really looking for them.

On the other hand, Brawl is an entirely differen beast from Melee. They don't feel similar at all. The core mechanics of Melee were abandoned and the new engine is completely different.

Moreover, the naive notion that glitch discovery is inevitable is not true just because it happened with SOME other games. When developers make a very conscious effort to dumb down gameplay like Nintendo did with Brawl, and when thousands of people have been deliberately searching for these glitches, knowing the kinds of things to look for, and still haven't found anything, this naive optimism becomes unwarranted.

The physics engine in the Halo games is much more complicated than Smash. There are so many possible weaponglitches, and they can be very obscure. In Halo 2 the doubleshot, for instance, is a very obscure technique that took a long time to discover because there's no reason to expect the battle rifle to perform that way. The exploits in Smash, however, are fundamental consequences of the physics engine. Wavedashing is just airdodging at an angle such that the game conserves momentum. I couldn't even begin to describe how the doubleshot works. You press R, rapidly press R again, while holding hit X. The timing is difficult. Why does it work this way? I have no idea. It's undoubtedly an actual glitch.

There were very few true glitches throughout the Smash series, I think, because the physics engines are simpler than in FPS. You don't have the complex terrains to map, just 2-D stages. You don't have to design ballistics systems for all these different guns. There are just way fewer things that can go wrong.

I don't think anything significant will come up because Nintendo tried to very hard to avoid players gaining any kind of advantage, much like Bungie did with Halo 3. Halo CE was good by accident, Halo 2 was playable by even bigger accident, but as far as I know Halo 3 is complete garbage. At some point a developer wises up to these accidents.
 

Hitzel

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
551
Location
New Jersey.
Melee is much more similar to Brawl then Basketball is to Golf. A more realistic analysis would be comparing Halo 1 players moving to Halo 2. It was vastly different in terms of mechanics but the same basic principles applied to both.
Ogre whaaat?

*Edit*

As a competitive Halo (1&2) player, I completely agree with the post above mine.
 

davemg

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
20
Although, gimpy its easy to believe what you are saying, I believe that although brawl will go though a time where defensive options will dominate any offense, you can only believe that mindgames and new tactics will develope.

When I personally first started melee rolling, shield grabs and counterattacks were basically all I knew. The games were longer, obviously no skill involved, but as we played for months we learned. Seeing videos on youtube opened everything. I first realized adv tactics and how much depth the game actually had. Lcancelling, pillaring and shffl became huge tools for any falco (he was my main obv).

Now Im not saying brawl all of a sudden will develope a glitch like melee that will save the competitive role of the game. There wont be a wavedash of brawl, but there will always be mindgames and the difference between a good player and a great player wasnt how much he wavedashed or used adv techs but how smart he was. These great players will adapt to the defensive game we agree will happen, thats what makes them great.
 

xpyr0

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
16
i dont even understand the idea of camping in the first place to be honest. cant u just reflect projectiles? or just avoid them and attack. and for shield grabbing cant u go up to them and just grab them wen they shield. u kno like short hop DI back wards and fake them out? isnt that all the offensive stratagey u need to break a defense? i mean dont get me wrong i loved setting up combos in melee and putting my opponent from 10 to 90 but do we really need that? plus i think the games to early to say anything. cuz eventually some one will find a way to break camping.
 

arrowhead

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
723
Location
under a rock
it doesn't matter how smart you play. the lack of combos, slow movement, and superior defensive play makes the game boring
 

Ellio 2 b

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
156
Location
--Located--
Its a completely different game than melee. It might progress different too. Only time will tell, because I think we are thinking too much about the future of Brawl.
 

LeeHarris

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
1,946
Location
New Braunfels / San Antonio / Austin, TX
Seeing as how the majority of Brawl Board users have an IQ equivalent to that of a bar of soap, that doesn't really bother me much.

And where is M3D getting these statistics about the ratio of anti-Brawl people to Brawl people among competitives? You obviously have little experience in the competitive circle if you think that the majority of them like Brawl. M3D, Forward, and AlphaZealot pretty much stand alone on this one.

Ask most other well-known competitives about their feelings towards Brawl. PC Chris, Wes, HugS, MikeG, Ankoku, Nealdt....the list goes on and on.

Even Gimpyfish, the patron saint of the Brawl Boards, is the one who's made some of the most anti-Brawl arguments to date.

Melee is hardly dead. Don't forget--it's BRAWL that's on trial, not Melee.
Look in the tournament listings section. Tell me the ratio of Brawl to Melee tournaments. I encourage you to reply to my post so you can count them for everyone here to see.

Your weak attempts at trying to say I wasn't in the competitive circle fail miserably. The ONLY reason it seems that more people don't like Brawl to you is because the people who are complaining like little girls are the most vocal ones. All of us who like the game are playing it and discussing strategies in the SBR. There is a ton of discussion going on in the SBR about strategies for Brawl. I guess you're not in the competitive circle!

It's just like going to an apartment ratings site. Of course all of them are going to be bad because if you get fuccked over you're going to post all the crap that happened to you in order to get revenge0. If you liked it or you just thought it was alright there's no incentive to post so you won't. You'll just go about your life. That's what the people who are whining non-stop need to do. Just leave the Brawl forums. No one here gives a **** if you don't like it. Maybe a new section should be made. We'll call it, "The Little Girls Room." That way all of you whiny bastages have some place to go discuss how uncool Brawl is while we make interesting topics.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom