Brawl will have backwards progression (which is a bad thing)

[Jackal478]

Muhaha, Melee will come back one day! *Evil Laughter"

Ignore this post, I don't want to start **** with people that prefer Brawl.

Edit:




Because there is no stun off of attacks! Any time you get hit, you can just airdodge or hit your opponent back before they can combo!

Get stupider friends? Haha.

But theres also the fact that you can do the same stuff they do. Combos aren't just that time you got four Fairs on your friend with Marth in Melee.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Get stupider friends? Haha.

But theres also the fact that you can do the same stuff they do. Combos aren't just that time you got four Fairs on your friend with Marth in Melee.

What exactly are you trying to say, lol?

If you insist that you can combo, you're wrong.

If you agree that you can't combo, you're right.

 

[Gluttony]

What exactly are you trying to say, lol?

If you insist that you can combo, you're wrong.

If you agree that you can't combo, you're right.

You can combo with heavy on but that's about it. I think what he's saying is that if you had dumber friends you'd be able to combo. It's a joke. I think anyway, I could be wrong.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

Listen guys we all know how you know how they have to get it because its faster tighter yup so we should as a community go and are now.

 

[Corigames]

It's hard to combo in Brawl for these, and probably more, reasons:
1. Hit lag - Enemies getting hit can hit you right back and do, what we call in the business, a C-C-C-Combo Breaker
2. Tripping - In game C-C-C-Combo Breaker.
3. Floatyness - It's very hard for some characters to get moves out fast because they need to hit the ground, jump, and attack again. This was possible in melee with SHFFLing, but you can't do that in Brawl.
4. DI - You can almost always DI away from attacks making it nearly IMPOSSIBLE to chain into another attack right away.

Feel free to add more.

 

[Eaode]

I love how everyone feels so high and mighty when they say Brawl has no Combos. Are you Blind?

Seriously. Brawl has Combos. They are very small, and few and far between. But some people delude themselves into believing that they don't exist at all.


Just my two cents

 

[The True Face of Stupid]

Ok, yes, Brawl is less techy than Melee.

Don't like it? Either go back to Melee or go play one of the **** Tekken games.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Hold on . . . A Fox Combo Video?!?! Is that all this game is About to some people? How fast you can cheaply kill someone with Fox. People would rather get kicked around by Fox than play brawl?! You know how many Foxes I've had to Fight just because he is easiest to master? Melee was unbalanced as hell, okay?!?! Lets talk about Melee's Flaws for once. A ton of people talk about it like there wasn't a thing wrong with it but I don't feel that's true. Melee had flaws, and yeah, of course Brawl does too. It's more like just trading out those flaws. Brawl is a more balanced game that is slower and takes longer to finish fights. Tournaments will conform by lowering stock AND people will learn to fight differently. We've all talked about unavoidable tiers before so I wont go there. Is Brawls combat so dumbed down that it can't be competitive? I really don't think so. So Boo Hoo, you can't watch Fox scoot around wave dashing & shining a billion times. There is not enough wrong with Brawl to completely Sh##-Can people seriously playing it.

QUOTED FOR EFFECT

btw, brawl should be played on a fun level first, to really understand the dynamics of the game(no matter how simple it is) and have fun while doing it. Didn't we all start out playing SSB/SSBM having fun with the characters and items while SLOWLY becoming competitive?

Most of you are skipping the fun aspect and playing it as if, like many others have said, it's Melee 2.0. This is why you are not enjoying yourselves and, honestly, I find that quite pathetic. Just leave the game if you're not going to start it out the right way.

 

[House M.D.]

coreygames is right. brawl videos are boring. every once in a while i think "omg that spacing was hella tight" but that's hard to appreciate and not that interesting anyway.

 

[DD151]

Seriously. Brawl has Combos. They are very small, and few and far between. But some people delude themselves into believing that they don't exist at all.

they might as well not exist at all, given your description.

 

[Corigames]

coreygames is right. brawl videos are boring. every once in a while i think "omg that spacing was hella tight" but that's hard to appreciate and not that interesting anyway.

OMG, I watch your shows. I love house. I would go gay for House. You are the best smart-*** ever invented by hollywood... wait, did I just say I would... %$#&*

Gotta stop doing that.


Thanks BTW.

 

[homsar]

My stuff in red.

That title definately goes to Phanna buddy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1EceHJi8Bw He uses that stuff in real matches. And he's found even more random technical stuff now (aerial interupts?!). Most characters have an extremely high tech skill cieling, and that cieling is even unreachable (or at least you're not expected to reach it even if you're good) for some characters. The closer you get to that cieling, the more options for mindgames you have.

See, I said that I was as technical as I could get but I lacked mindgames. AKA, I lacked the ability to apply the techs in battle. Mostly due to the fact that I was only able to get out to tourneys every month or two. Not enough to make me a skilled mind gamer. Also, you are correct in saying that the more technical you are, the more mindgames you have open. But that means nothing when you only need the fundamentals to have game winning mindgames. Just take a look at Aniki, a top japanese samus player in melee that used little to no advanced techs. Combo Video of Aniki in action.

Melee hit a nearly perfect balance between techskill and mindgames. Techskill allowed you to sufficiently punish your opponent for making a mistake, and the more techskill you had the more options you had for punishment. However, you still had to get your opponent to make the mistake in the first place.

Exactly, you needed to mindgame in the first place to get the punishment off. Which means that if you need to get them into a spot were you can punish them, then it just helps prove that mindgames are just as important as advanced techs, which has been my point this entire time.

Brawl has made a mistake with removing hitstun. It has shattered the basic concept of risk:reward, by making the reward far too small in comparison to the risk. We are trying to work around this as best we can, because we really don't enjoy camping matches. Just know that until we find some kind of great reward for successfully approaching, people will continue to camp because it is the better option. In melee camping styles and aggressive styles were both viable and both had great appeal tactics wise. Since they yielded similar results (you'd have the advantage) people often went with the one that they personally considered more "fun" (which was often the more engaging aggressive style). But that only came after they figured out that both strategies were winning strategies. Now that aggressive play is no longer a winning strategy, camping is the only viable option left. That is the current problem that needs to be solved. We're just afraid because there is no logical solution, and thus if a solution is even found it will likely take a long time to be found because it will be some kind of unorthodox oversight.

The reward in brawl is not less then the risk. The reason? Lack of hitstun. Ypu see, if in brawl you approach and score a hit they can either air dodge or hit you back most likely. If they score the hit on you, you can do the same thing. So then the risk of approach equals 1 hit and the reward for approach equals 1 hit because as you all are arguing, there are no combos. You cant get punished for approaching more then you can hit the opponent. The reward is just equal to the risk in this game.

No one was saying that mind games are inferior to advanced techs. And you are correct in saying that someone with great mindgames can sometimes defeat an opponent with greater tech skill.

Its what some people were implying, whether intentionally or not.

But if melee required both aspects of the game to succeed, where as in brawl the technical skill requirement has been lowered. Just like you said, the mindgame aspect is dominant in brawl; thus, only one facet of the game has to be truly mastered. Doesn't this imply that brawl takes less skill than melee?

Just because technical skill is less dominate doesn't mean you shouldn't truly master it. It will still help you become better at the game. Also, since techs are less needed it actually forces mindgames into a higher role. If in melee advanced techs were 50% of skill and mindgames were also 50% then in brawl advanced techs got reduced to 25% of skill, then mindgames are forced to take up the other 75%. Its still better to lean all 100% of the game or else you risk losing to someone who has learned even 1% of the advanced techs.

First of all, being able to hit consecutively in brawl is not rather skillful. Setting up for single hits is a tactic that most basic smash players have been learning since smash 64. Combos are the evolution of the single hit set up, because it takes practice and experience to pull of a string of "guaranteed" hits.

The problem here is that basic smash players don't use mindgames to do so. They just go at it. Tell me, when have you ever seen a basic smash player use fast falling and short hopping to set up for a single hit? Doesn't happen often because those are considered advanced techs. The most rudimentary ones but still techs all the same.

Second, even if setting up for single hits requires intense ability and skill, it is completely not rewarding to the aggressor. In melee, if you set your opponent up right, of if they overextended themselves and made a mistake, then you could follow up and PUNISH them. Your technical skill determined the amount of punishment you could dish out, either in the form of combos or advanced edgegaurding. A single hit punishment, in addition to virtually non-existent hit stun, leads to minimal punishment for making mistakes. It throws the entire risk-reward system of any good fighter out the window by putting the aggressor at an extreme disadvantage.

Why is the aggressor using all of his skills to preform one hit? That doesnt make sense. A good player would recognize what tactic can be used to quickly and efficiently score the hit. If they are using intense ability they clearly do not know what they are doing because scoring one hit does not need intense skill. Melee may have used intense skill to pull off intense punishment, but now in brawl you only need small burst of skill to pull off small bursts of punishment. If you take all the small bursts of skill in any given match and add them together they will equal the larger and longer intense skills when added together in any given match. Your still using the same amount of skill too win, your just dividing it up differently.

This brings it back to gimpy's OP. The winning mindgame in brawl isnt setting up for single hits, it is camping and putting the aggressor at a disadvantage, because they have limited options for approaching and punishing camping. And since camping takes little technical skill (compared to the advanced techs of melee), brawl takes less skill overall.

I'm not arguing that there is combos in brawl. I accept that there is not at this time. What I am arguing is that both games take just as much skill. Camping is just a product of not knowing what to do in brawl as we don't fully understand the physics engine. Already people are attempting to find ways around camping (though I can not vouch for results as I have not tested anything myself). Also, the aggressor should not be at a disadvantage because if they approach and get hit, the camper can not follow into a combo. Rather the aggressor now has an opportunity to use an attack or air dodge and set up for his attack (now that hes close to the opponent). Just like in war how they may lose soldiers to win the war, a brawl player may have to take some damage to win the fight.

 

[The_Trap]

I would go gay

qft

10 charizards

 

[MagicJosh]

I totally agree, however I have my own opinions and will still play competitively, as many others will I'm sure.

 

[Gluttony]

Homsar, once again, is completely right. Both games can be great in competitions. I personally like Brawl's style as I've already said before. Brawl is very fun even when played competitively. The videos I have seen do not bore me. Sure it's very defensive and campy but I don't think it will be forever. Even so, defensive is fun in my opinion. I don't mind long defensive matches.

 

[Eggm]

The millions of scrubs/casuals who play competitivley for whatever reason will be bored of this game in 6 months, and the good players who played melee and moved to brawl will get bored and move on really quickly, either back to melee or to another game. People should just move back to melee now.

 

[LouisLeGros]

QUOTED FOR EFFECT

btw, brawl should be played on a fun level first, to really understand the dynamics of the game(no matter how simple it is) and have fun while doing it. Didn't we all start out playing SSB/SSBM having fun with the characters and items while SLOWLY becoming competitive?

Most of you are skipping the fun aspect and playing it as if, like many others have said, it's Melee 2.0. This is why you are not enjoying yourselves and, honestly, I find that quite pathetic. Just leave the game if you're not going to start it out the right way.

who are you to say what is the right way to play? Who are you to say what is fun?

and how do you know we didn't play those "fun" parts of the game first?

You are worse then even the most "elitist" of the competitive players.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Can someone explain to me why the demo was better??!!

Dash dancing was still in, L-cancelling was still in for SHFFLs, and most importantly, there was hit stun so people could combo.

 

[SMBEffect]

Now, I'm going to play Brawl no matter if it's compettively or casual. I was never a pro in Melee, and when I came in as a newcomer during Melee, I found myself failry lost. All of a sudden, there are all of these strange techs. and glitches, things that I couldn't believe. It was mindblowing how this simple Nintendo game that I enjoyed playing was something this deep.

So, I'm sure we all have our stories of the Smash days without knowing about Smashboards, Techs., or Glitches. And I'm sure it took a while for people to develop these things. The seven years from Melee to Brawl was plenty of time for this stuff to be developed, and I'm sure that people will discover new things about Brawl, and I'm willing to give it time. Brawl just seemed like an upgrade from Melee when I thought about it previously. You had an upgraded game that accessible to new players and old. It kind of wiped the game clean and put everyone on the same level. Now, this might be a good thing and a bad thing, I suppose. Competitive players want their competitive game, and casual players want to play the game casually, but a new game was inevitable. I'm just interested to see if people will excuse the game because they cannot play on an extreme competitive level. Melee, when it was released, didn't come immediately with any of this competitive stuff, and Brawl certaintly dosen't.

That's just my outlook on the whole thing, so please try not to flame. As I mentioned before, I'll play Brawl because I simply love and enjoy the game, even if it isn't as competitive as Melee.

 

[UCbizerkeley]

Dash dancing was still in, L-cancelling was still in for SHFFLs, and most importantly, there was hit stun so people could combo.

now i feel ripped. i didnt know the demo stayed with the SSB traditions. If that had happened I could have dealt with this game.

One thing that is painfully apparent is that the majority of support for brawl stems from persons reg'd either in 2008 or late 2007, often with TONS of posts (brawl spam anybody?) I admittedly fall into this category in terms of registration, but not mindset.

I highly doubt these kids ever reached any level of competitive competency with melee. And it is impossible to understand the frustrations of the competitive player without an appreciation of ATs in melee and how they benefited gameplay.

Glitches typically make games better, not worse. It is a hard concept to wrap ones head around, but there is truth to it. Imagine brawl + L-cancel + hitstun. That game would be worth playing.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Yeah, what apparently happened is that E-for-All was used as a kind of free play-testing. Sakurai set out from the beginning to make the game as random and uncompetitive as possible (as evidenced from many quotes). So the techs people found during E-for-All were probably the reason for the last game delay, as well, to get rid of anything that people found that gave them an advantage.

Technically none of the major advanced techs in Melee are glitches, but it's just an argument in semantics. Glitches/exploits in general do tend to add depth to games. Imagine Halo 2 without BXR, BXB, the double shot, quick reload, etc. Most of these were actual glitches but added significant skill to the game.

 

[Tofu Beast]

BXR, BXB, the double shot, quick reload, etc.

What?!


10char

 

[Heavyarms2050]

In order to truly be good in brawl, you need more mind games unlike melee. The problem with melee is that once you know technique to counter each of your opponent movements (I.E crouch-canceling that, chain-grabbing him, etc.) or knowing guarantee combos for each characters, there practically no strategy involve whatsoever. Brawl on the other hand require you to anticipate what you're opponent is going to do, and strategize a plan to defeat him. That where combos come in.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Dude, why post if you don't know what I'm talking about? These were some weaponglitches in Halo 2.

 

[Mr.E]

Not even reading most of the topic yet, it seems pretty strange to assert Brawl will have "backwards progression" with regard to offense when everyone's complaining about camping, how defense is too strong, it's easier to do, everything out-of-shield is broke, blah blah blah. It sounds the exact opposite of how you're saying Brawl will "progress," everyone's caught up on the defensive front right now and offense is lagging behind. From that standpoint, offense can only get better by comparison and there's so few gimp kills right now anyway (with more floaty physics and attacks in general having more upward trajectories) that there can hardly be less in the future.

That's not to say that true 50%+ or instakill combos will be had as they are in Melee (aside chain-grabs and whatnot) but cheap, low-percent kills *coughrestcombosonspaciescough* that can hardly be escaped are as lame as even Bowser having a hard time missing the ledge. At worst, the game centers around defensive play but that's no different than focusing on offense. Maybe some of you don't enjoy the generally slower pace or the emphasis of mental over technical play but there's nothing inherently "wrong" about a defensively-minded game. If you must still play but can't stand the pace, then just use a character forced to be aggressive like MK. ;/

Unrelated, I would also like to question the complete removal of items. Yes, "random element" blagh blagh blagh, but there are very few competitive games not named "Go" or "Chess" that are completely devoid of randomness. Just turn off the more overpowering items that allow for really cheap kills (like the Dragoon or smashing a spawning Bob-Omb at 40%) and we're good to go. And don't give me any garbage about how certain characters aren't "supposed" to have projectiles, especially Ike; most projectiles are single-use anyway (i.e. throwing them). The use of items also allows for additional skill development, such as thrown item catching and deciding when to use vs. when to throw.

But yeah, they totally got rid of THAT cheapness. Now we have chaingrabs off the stage with many characters, instant gimps with certain characters, and tons of wall infinites or near infinites. Yeah, this game is way better. Someone who plays Yoshi, DK, Sonic, amd other low characters completely stand a chance against all that bull.

Yeah, Melee sure didn't have any infinite combos. The only one in Brawl that may be easier to perform than the ones in Melee is the crap out of IC's grab, which isn't even new. Melee also has so many short combos that lead to easy low-percent gimps/kills it's ridiculous, which are more practical than show-off "lol got you over 400%" infinites anyway. Getting chain-grabbed/thrown to the ledge in Brawl isn't nearly the death sentence in was in Melee.

 

[UCbizerkeley]

The problem with melee is that once you know technique to counter each of your opponent movements (I.E crouch-canceling that, chain-grabbing him, etc.) or knowing guarantee combos for each characters, there practically no strategy involve whatsoever.

No dude, just no. You fall into the category of not playing melee competitively if that is what you believe. CCing was simple as heck and only added depth, chain grab was limited to a few characters and perfect DI could save your *** at the right %

Can someone explain why you do not think that advanced techs add depth to games / mindgames? Perhaps if we knew that we could properly open your eyes for non-competitive smashers. This last statement probably sounded terribly elitist, and I apologize for that. However, as has already been established in this thread, competitive smash is an entirely different realm than casual and require different knowledge sets and experience.

 

[Dark Sonic]

My stuff in red.

I wasn't really arguing with you, but the first response just inspired me to make some more general points.

And when I said that the reward is too small is that in comparison to the risk (being shielded and being hit by a strong attack) the reward is not justified (one small attack that likely doesn't do that much damage).

But yeah, I'm agreeing with you.

 

[LouisLeGros]

*snip*

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=4127465&postcount=45

 

[Shai Hulud]

Yeah, Melee sure didn't have any infinite combos. The only one in Brawl that may be easier to perform than the ones in Melee is the crap out of IC's grab, which isn't even new. Melee also has so many short combos that lead to easy low-percent gimps/kills it's ridiculous, which are more practical than show-off "lol got you over 400%" infinites anyway. Getting chain-grabbed/thrown to the ledge in Brawl isn't nearly the death sentence in was in Melee.

The only true infinite in Melee is the IC's ftilt infinite, which is usually banned. The other IC chaingrabs can be escaped through proper smash DI, Fox's infinites can be escaped rather easily, etc. Marth can chaingrab Fox/Falco to death but it's fairly complicated, requiring pivot grabs at certain points, switching to utilts, spotting when to land a tipper, etc. The chaingrabs in Brawl seem to be far easier.

Also, the fact that you would complain about Jiggs being cheap makes me think you never really played the game or were never any good. Sure, Jiggs can uthrow => rest Fox if you don't know how to DI. Fox can kill Jiggs around 50% with a usmash or uthrow=> uair, and even if Fox is rested he can often get back fast enough to usmash Jiggs. If a rest misses, Fox can kill Jiggs from 0 on some stages, by lasering and then charging a usmash.

Oh, and in Brawl Fox can do wall infinites simply by holding down and hitting B over and over. To do JC shines in Melee required frame perfect timing. Brawl is so dumbed down it's ********.

 

[Heavyarms2050]

No dude, just no. You fall into the category of not playing melee competitively if that is what you believe. CCing was simple as heck and only added depth, chain grab was limited to a few characters and perfect DI could save your *** at the right %

Can someone explain why you do not think that advanced techs add depth to games / mindgames? Perhaps if we knew that we could properly open your eyes for non-competitive smashers. This last statement probably sounded terribly elitist, and I apologize for that. However, as has already been established in this thread, competitive smash is an entirely different realm than casual and require different knowledge sets and experience.

i didnt say anything that advance techs did not add depth anywhere in that paragraph. The main point is that you need more minds games in brawl than you did in melee in order to good.

 

[Mr.E]

Topic is too fast to continually edit my previous wall o' text, so I'll move down here.

Why is it every hardcare camping match people post involves Overswarm? Maybe it's not that Brawl itself is a campfest rather than just OS himself. Besides which, I notice he continues to camp and chip even when he has a significant damage advantage over his opponent. :/ There's still less "risk" in approaching for an earlier kill than there is letting your opponent counter-chip for another 50%.

And what is sio risky about approaching anyway? Everyone seems to admit there are few true combos in Brawl, so what you get thrown away and try again? Only a few characters can chain-grab or actually have high-damaging throws in the first place (Dedede is lucky enough to have both a chain-grabbing DThrow and a 16% back throw...), so the potential "risk" in approaching most characters is no worse than making a successful approach and getting a couple hits in on the camper. I just can't buy into the whole "nothing beats camping" thing right now when the punishment of a failed approach (getting thrown away, jabbed or tilted OoS) is no worse than the reward for a successful approach (throwing THEM, chaining an aerial to or from something).

Oh, and in Brawl Fox can do wall infinites simply by holding down and hitting B over and over. To do JC shines in Melee required frame perfect timing. Brawl is so dumbed down it's ********.

but dude there is liek no hitstun and combos are imposisblz to perform lolz!!

At any rate, most infinites in either installment require walls to work and it's also a big part of why most stages with walls are banned in competitive play. Same with walk-off edges and chain-grabs.

And a gem from the fourth page:

I guess that means that only a few select games games released prior to the... say 6th generation of gaming. I mean, games like Super Mario 3 and heck, even the original Pokemon games LIVED off their competitive game, right?

From the 2000 Pokémon World Championship back in the Red/Blue/Yellow days (U.S. champ Ian Garvey AKA EeveeTrainer was a Time cover story) to Journey Across America in 2006 with Diamond and Pearl, Pokémon's had an extremely competitive community since its debut as a franchise both officially and unofficially. You're way off here, bub.

Pokémon is also one of the most god-**** random competitive games ever. >:O

 

[Kiki52]

Sakurai tried his best to take out all advanced techniques and competitiveness. I think that is the goal of Nintendo so it can increase sales. Will it really pay of Nintendo at the end by getting more sales than Melee did? Only time will tell.

 

[DraginHikari]

Sakurai tried his best to take out all advanced techniques and competitiveness. I think that is the goal of Nintendo so it can increase sales. Will it really pay of Nintendo at the end by getting more sales than Melee did? Only time will tell.

It already has provide profitable either way. Even at our wal-mart alone in the middle of nowhere sold 170 copies of teh game in it's three week release period... only Halo 3 sold more then that at this particular store.

The sale figures have already shown results in that prespective.

 

[Break]

Really, the naive "give it more time arguments" are just silly. Unlike when Melee was released, we have an organized community who has been working to break Brawl since it's DEMO, we know what types of things to look for, we have experience. Also, the Mookie has been ridiculously accurate in most of his statements, it's sad that so many people are trying to argue with him.

 

[Froilen]

ok is official, stop playing brawl you people

 

[tafutureboy]

well here's my input.

Melee, in my opinion, became competitive because of AT and just the way it was played. In brawl though many these AT, or glitches, have been removed (or rather not added in). and I saw you said you were happy about not getting melee 2.0. This is very true, but many people wanted that to contiue with smash being competive. Which makes me confused, because the whole point of the game is to knock your opponent off the stage, which hasn't changed. So my question would be, why will it progress backwards? people will find something in time that will make it competitive or people will just either go back to playing melee or continue on with Brawl. and in saying that I bet you we will have an argument here on the boards on which one is tournament friendly (or the game for tournaments). I mean, all of them will be used, but which one will be the standard.

 

[Veng]

Gimpyfish you have it all backwards.

Your taking stuff found in melee, clearly can be done in brawl too, gimp kills etc. not as big in brawl, bigger in melee, and saying its backwards progression because it was better in melee.

Yet being defensive in brawl is much better, and could easily replace comboing?


Im not hating, i just think everyones comparing the 2 games.

 

[MookieRah]

So my question would be, why will it progress backwards? people will find something in time that will make it competitive or people will just either go back to playing melee or continue on with Brawl.

Honestly, it will be a very very very hard task to keep Melee as the competitive standard over Brawl. Seriously, every single newcomer will be opposed to playing Melee, even if it is a superior game in terms of competitive play. It's the same thing as the transition from Halo to Halo 2. It's *possible* for it to happen, but extremely unlikely.

We are upset cause more than likely, competitive smash will just go down the crapper, and the game series we loved just wouldn't cultivate the interest or skill that melee did :-(. I seriously loved the smash games, and I like Brawl, but I fear that Brawl will just not get much better than it is now. People need to realize that, even though we are complaining, we freaking loved these games... Enough to travel throughout the country (and for some people to different continents O_o) to play it against other people. We don't want that to happen, and it's sad that Sakurai decided to seemingly purposely go out of the way to prevent people from playing it competitively... The worst part is that it was all for the sake of his naive PC notions that everyone should have a shot at winning, no matter their skill levels. Jesus... that hurts.

 

[SiD]

people will find something in time that will make it competitive or people will just either go back to playing melee or continue on with Brawl.

This mindset annoys me. Why do so many people think that somewhere down the line something will be discovered that will all of a sudden make the game drastically more competitive? That's a naive notion.

 

[RDK]

This mindset annoys me. Why do so many people think that somewhere down the line something will be discovered that will all of a sudden make the game drastically more competitive? That's a naive notion.

People need to stop shouting more cries of "Give the game more time! It will develop."

Lol, not really. It's becoming increasingly aware that, competitively speaking, Brawl is going nowhere fast. It's just a watered-down version of Melee.

I, for one, am seriously considering giving up Smash altogether. A lot of the Melee veterans aren't coming back, and honestly, that's the only crowd I'd want to be with. If the intelligence of the Brawl Boards is any foreshadowing to what the next generation Smash community will be like, I want to have no part in it.