thumbswayup
Smash Master
ROFL @ Phyrexian Colossus.
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Brawl will have backwards progression (which is a bad thing)
- Thread starter Gimpyfish62
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Samochan
Smash Master
Goooo Silent Wolf and all German smash players cause they're so technical, yauuhhhzz! You will now beat everyone in this universe m'rite!?
/sarcasm
(is not an personal attacks toward the players, just as an example)
I do not understand phyrexian colossus since I don't play mtg. :< From the description I could guess broken though.
peeup
Smash Lord
Melee is more techincal than brawl, which some people like. Brawl is more about reading your opponent so you can get past their defenses, which some people like better. Brawl's progession isn't really backwards, its just a compltetely different game than melee--people have to understand that.
I play Brawl better on pure reaction than I do on reading and prediction, because I have a chance of predicting wrong but the game plays so slowly that I can react to nearly everything.
It's not broken per se, though it did see some ridiculous stomping at some point in the game, I think. I more thought of using it because the Phyrexian Colossus is just a mishmash of a bunch of junkyard things brought together into an 8/8 of pure destruction.
You're not understanding that the only reason Fast Brawl seems great is because of shock value; you're unused to playing at that pace. Nothing about the game's fundamental properties (ability to combo, usefulness of dodges, etc.) has changed. It just seems like it because it's so much faster than normal Brawl.
I don't understand this mentality of "just trying to make Brawl better" when we have Melee. That's like trying to reattach a severed, mangled arm back onto your body when there's a prosthetic iron gauntlet (that gives you the ability to Falcon Punch) sitting right next to you.
Bud
Smash Journeyman
Im not "unused" to playing at that pace, ive been playing only fast brawl for about a month. I disagreed with it at first also but have spent enough time with it to make a good judgement. (come on I play quake, nothings too fast for me). its better for me, I'm not even thinking about melee. I just think brawl is slow, I'm sure some people agree with me. Fast brawl makes it faster, and I know the fundamentals are still there, but not for noobs. Scrubs can not handle it and it is harder, not impossible, to airdodge out of combos. Its a smaller window to airdodge, thats my point on that. Its just jun for me and I only hope people try it out, because my group and I feel it is much better and alot more fun than at the slower speed. Dont get me confused with someone who wants to make the game like melee. I just like the speed in fast brawl that the designers put in the game for us to use. If you don't like it don't play it, but at least try it out.
The window to airdodge is the same, relative to the attacks that you're airdodging, because though you're airdodging for less time, the attacks last shorter by the same ratio.
dj_pwn1423
Smash Journeyman
I dunno, most of the tourney matches I've played have been really enjoyable. With the exception of one against a camping pit.
You have to remember though, that camping existed in melee as well. In fact, most people considered it the main style of play.
I'm not saying that brawl is any better than melee. Matches are not really that great in the spectators eyes. But just look at chess, its one of the most boring games to watch(in my opinion), and I am pretty sure it has been around for longer than 8 years.
Then again, I doubt brawl will ever be as deep as chess.
You have to remember though, that camping existed in melee as well. In fact, most people considered it the main style of play.
I'm not saying that brawl is any better than melee. Matches are not really that great in the spectators eyes. But just look at chess, its one of the most boring games to watch(in my opinion), and I am pretty sure it has been around for longer than 8 years.
Then again, I doubt brawl will ever be as deep as chess.
N00bs are just is bad at normal Brawl as they are at fast Brawl. If these people aren't good enough to adapt to simply turning the framerate up, they're most likely not too good to begin with.
Besides, why are you worried about the ability to beat n00bs even easier? It's the people who CAN adapt that you should be worried about.
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
Nobody is perfect, You wont be able to smash DI out of everything, because some moves are unpredictable, or you'll get mindgamed. Brawl is more about putting on the pressure than combos. I definitely don't see how brawl will fade out sooner than Melee, its got more replayability with wifi battles. And with more characters to play as, I know I wont get bored of this game in a very very long time from now.
you guys are incredibly predictable in your childish *Cough"debating"*cOugh* . This qoute comes from metalmonstar's "things you learn on smashboards and i think it sums up this fail thread perfectly.
But wait brawl doesnt have true combos? False again, yes it has fewer then melee but it still has plenty if you would take the time to learn them. My secondary is diddy, he has at very least 14 inescapables, (thats not even counting bannanas which if we took the time to factor in hed probably have more like 30 combos).And no its not just diddy that can combo get your head out of this brawl v melee debate and go take a look at some actually USEFUL threads.
I will now officialy stamp this thread a fail and crash the gimpy bandwagon into a brickwall
The OP claims combos will become smaller. Um combos will become smaller? Combos are an inescapable chain of moves right? So unless someone changes the game engine thats pretty much impossible.
But wait brawl doesnt have true combos? False again, yes it has fewer then melee but it still has plenty if you would take the time to learn them. My secondary is diddy, he has at very least 14 inescapables, (thats not even counting bannanas which if we took the time to factor in hed probably have more like 30 combos).And no its not just diddy that can combo get your head out of this brawl v melee debate and go take a look at some actually USEFUL threads.
I will now officialy stamp this thread a fail and crash the gimpy bandwagon into a brickwall
Michigan is composed of idiots.
wow this guys good. im starting to think he has pk. Just like Ness!
I stand by my statement.
Brawlbro, nobody claimed there were no combos in Brawl. That quote by metal is riddled with assumptions and was obviously made by someone who is still butthurt about getting his *** handed to bim in Melee.
"Melee players have no mindgames--they just can't compute"? LMFAO. Okay then. Good day to you sir, and your amazingly un-childish debating skills.
Combos are escapable, thanks to Brawl's amazing "you can airdodge before your hitstun runs out" system. The only inescapable combos are ones that are either close to the ground, because airdodge invincibility runs out near the ground regardless of how early or late you started it; and trip-based combos because there's always a certain period of vulnerability where you can't do anything.
The OP made the claim that "combos" will get smaller, because people will learn just how escapable almost everything is and learn to abuse the air-dodge system a lot more effectively.
The OP made the claim that "combos" will get smaller, because people will learn just how escapable almost everything is and learn to abuse the air-dodge system a lot more effectively.
Witchking_of_Angmar
Smash Lord
Ankoku, Michigan is the best state and you know it. Michigan isn't immune to idiots, but it's still cool.
BrawlBro, I don't get what you're trying to say.
BrawlBro, I don't get what you're trying to say.
Lord Viper
SS Rank
Darn it, didn't this thread died a month ago or such. XD
Oh well, I guess people got boerd and revive this thread I suppose. =/
Oh well, I guess people got boerd and revive this thread I suppose. =/
the ones on the list register in training mode, which means they occur during hitstun, so no matter how good you are at airdodging your gonna get hit if a true combo is performed right.
haha michigan can be a sh1++y state at times but thats a different story, anyways///
What im trying to say is
1. true combos CANT get smaller
2.Theres too many melee vs brawl debates on smashboards, its pretty much what every thread turns into. You can start a thread on the length of yoshis tail and it will turn into "melee is better than brawl". Now of course its something we all want to debate but can we keep it to one thread?
Witchking_of_Angmar
Smash Lord
You can airdodge before hitstun is over. I think Lucien actually found a CF combo where the CPU airdodges, CF knees, and it still registers as a combo in training mode.
Falcon's dair to fair registers as two consecutive hits. A Level 9 CPU can air-dodge between the dair and the fair, and it will still register as two consecutive hits. So in reality, you have to perform a "true combo" wrong to make it hit, a lot of the time, just so you can bait an air-dodge and punish with an attack, since most people won't air-dodge immediately, but rather when they see you going for a hit.
hmm that i admit to not knowing^ ankoku
but comeon whos going to have lvl 9 computer reaction time...
well since melee players were robots i guess they might.. BWAHAHA
(sorry too big of a set up)
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if that is truly the case then the "true combo list" needs to be redone, its pretty misleading.
but comeon whos going to have lvl 9 computer reaction time...
well since melee players were robots i guess they might.. BWAHAHA
(sorry too big of a set up)
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if that is truly the case then the "true combo list" needs to be redone, its pretty misleading.
dair to knee isn't particularly fast, you can air-dodge pretty easily to get away from it. The only reason it registers as consecutive hits is because the dair has lots of hitstun if you hit someone on the ground with it.
I build my game around knowing what will never work and what might work. I know things.
I build my game around knowing what will never work and what might work. I know things.
Witchking_of_Angmar
Smash Lord
Uh... it's not that hard, considering most attacks have relatively long hitlag. If you can SDI, you can airdodge. Anyway, if you get hit and see your opponent try to follow up, you airdodge, it's not that difficult.
This thread was resurrected from April, so the list isn't exactly "up to date".
Michigan gas prices, anyone?
Well, excluding chaingrabs and infinites for one, (and laser lock and that stuff), then we can talk about backwards progression, because firstly, there are more infinites and locks, which are true combos that go on forever.
The fact that there's vulnerability time between when your shield goes down and when you roll makes ground defense less effective. The fact that you can grab, get hit, and still land the grab allows you to do pseudo-chaingrabs more easily. I think what Gimpy may be getting at is aerial combos. Due to the new airdodge, aerial combos are much reduced. However, there are still ground combos that can be done, just (outside of infinites) no 0% -> death combos.
The fact that there's vulnerability time between when your shield goes down and when you roll makes ground defense less effective. The fact that you can grab, get hit, and still land the grab allows you to do pseudo-chaingrabs more easily. I think what Gimpy may be getting at is aerial combos. Due to the new airdodge, aerial combos are much reduced. However, there are still ground combos that can be done, just (outside of infinites) no 0% -> death combos.
Adapt
Smash Lord
I still have a phyrexian colossus somewhere... haven't seen it in in years though. Never sold my Magic cards, I must be sitting on a couple hundred dollars worth of them
Everything is built around what might work... for the most part people are not frame perfect, so what might work actually does. Then again, I'm not at a pro level or anything close to it
Everything is built around what might work... for the most part people are not frame perfect, so what might work actually does. Then again, I'm not at a pro level or anything close to it
Proverbs
Smash Lord
Just a question, sorry if I'm ignorant. It was once said in Scar's Melee vs. Brawl debate that consecutive hits =/= combos. If this is true, then isn't the 'Sacred Combo' not a real combo? If you wiggle correctly, couldn't you just airdodge the the Punch? You might not live afterward if this is Melee, but you would still interrupt the combo, right? So, instead of just comboing with hitstun, isn't another way of comboing just forcing your opponent to decide between two bad decisions (in this case, two lethal decisions)? So, couldn't I then Sacred Combo not by jumping off the edge and nailing a character with a Falcon Punch, but instead force them to make a bad decision. If they're recovering and I'm on the stage, they could either have the choice of airdodging to their death or just getting hit and dying anyway?
And so then wouldn't Brawl's combos just be predicting your opponent and either forcing him to make predictable or bad decisions either way?
Just a thought.
And also, just for your information, I think that Melee is better than Brawl, so I'm not necessarily defending Brawl. I'm just trying to see what we can come up with here.
Witchking_of_Angmar
Smash Lord
Sacred Combo is in Melee and registers as two hits in training mode, thus you are in hitstun the whole time. Since you can't airdodge before hitstun ends in Melee, you cannot airdodge out of the sacred combo.
WoodyWiggins
Smash Journeyman
Brawl fails. ADAPT!
Crooked Crow
drank from lakes of sorrow
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2007
- Messages
- 2,247
who the hell wants to adapt to failure LOL
WoodyWiggins
Smash Journeyman
It's a Tourney game.
Fenrir
Smash Ace
QFT x eleventybillion.channlsrfr said:
In Melee, I ALWAYS felt that I could do better, even if I owned someone in a match. Sure, there`s room for improvement for me in Brawl, but it feels capped. Kinda like the difference between exponential and logistic growth (LOLNERDTALK)
thumbswayup
Smash Master
Brawl is just a campfest. What a joke. It kills me to see random scrubs at tournys doing well because they use Snake and MK and spam/camp all day.
Candy and Gonzo were beaten in teams at the last C3 by two random scrubs. It was the saddest thing ever. Both Candy and Gonzo have consistently placed in top 10 in teams and singles in the MD/VA area's tournies. They accidentally killed each other multiple times, and the scrubs just spammed all day. My teammate and I played the awful scrubs after them and barely beat them. How ****ing sad is that? They were a Snake/Lucario team. Here's what they did: the Snake literally only tilted and mortar slid the ENTIRE match, the Lucario jumped back and spammed Aura all day. Whenever you approached him, he spammed every smash he could. I got that ******* good though, footstool killed that camping mofo at 0% in the tie breaker match. He was so mad, I couldn't stop smiling.
So, yeah, even teams now suck. My partner and I aren't bad, just so you know. We almost beat Azen and Chillin that day when they were using double Snake. Came down to Azen and I final stock with him at 50% and me at 120%.
I've even been shocked to hear from people who are good in Brawl, and who I thought were "pro" Brawl, tell me they would like nothing more than for competitive Brawl to die so the Melee scene could return. I was even told this by a game and watch main in MELEE.
I know Brawl will die soon. I just can't wait for that day to come.
Candy and Gonzo were beaten in teams at the last C3 by two random scrubs. It was the saddest thing ever. Both Candy and Gonzo have consistently placed in top 10 in teams and singles in the MD/VA area's tournies. They accidentally killed each other multiple times, and the scrubs just spammed all day. My teammate and I played the awful scrubs after them and barely beat them. How ****ing sad is that? They were a Snake/Lucario team. Here's what they did: the Snake literally only tilted and mortar slid the ENTIRE match, the Lucario jumped back and spammed Aura all day. Whenever you approached him, he spammed every smash he could. I got that ******* good though, footstool killed that camping mofo at 0% in the tie breaker match. He was so mad, I couldn't stop smiling.
So, yeah, even teams now suck. My partner and I aren't bad, just so you know. We almost beat Azen and Chillin that day when they were using double Snake. Came down to Azen and I final stock with him at 50% and me at 120%.
I've even been shocked to hear from people who are good in Brawl, and who I thought were "pro" Brawl, tell me they would like nothing more than for competitive Brawl to die so the Melee scene could return. I was even told this by a game and watch main in MELEE.
I know Brawl will die soon. I just can't wait for that day to come.
Rhubarbo
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2007
- Messages
- 2,035
As long as people enjoy mashing the B button, this sadly won't happen. In all honesty, Brawl is not terrible, but it gets boring real quick if you know most of the basic defensive tactics.
hippochinfat!!
Smash Lord
Yeah I hate all these scrubs being scrubs doing all these scrubby things, seriously they are such scrubs. Scrubs like these should be called scrubs because they're no-good scrubs doing scrubby things.
Seriously though, you used the word scrub a million times.
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