Brawl+ Official Codeset Gold Discussion

[K.Mac]

DDD had moderate complaining for a while, as people sunk more time into him and realized that he was still great even with the loss of his chaingrab.

Even without his CG I quickly realised that the addition of hitstun made his moves become scarily good combos. the quake hammer surprised me to be truthful, but it's been removed now so that's that.

People (like me) have been getting freezes with common5.pac. It hasn't been happening to everyone, but it's common enough to be a problem.

Huh, funny. I've never gotten any freezes with that, but I remember people complaining, so it makes sense. common5.pac is just cosmetics on the SSS? that's all I ever saw it do.

 

[Andarel]

When did you start playing? Because early on he was a prime candidate for bottom tier, simply because lots of people thought so and not many people actually played him. That led to a nice slew of buffs...which were just compensated for.

Quake hammer was fun, and while odd was also fitting and not that hard to play around. It WAS degenerate in 2v2, though, and was an unnecessary buff in general (if one that played well).

 

[K.Mac]

I've been playing since.... well, I've been playing the PAL codeset since sometime earlier this year (Almas set it up for me) and I've been playing the NTSC version since October (played 5.0 rc1 and GSH1, I didn't get involved with GSH2)

I assumed that since he could no longer rely on his chaingrab that he would be a bad character - I admit that, but since playing him a lot I've noticed that he's nowhere near as bad because the hitstun and buffs made up for it.

Unfortunately I will miss the disjointed Bair though - I don't understand why they changed it. wasn't it disjointed for a reason? but obviously my say on that is null, I'll deal with the new bair. Also for the record I kept forgetting that his Fsmash would shake the whole stage, and I rarely played in 2v2s anyway. XD <- fail.

That aside, I'm going to a friends' house tomorrow and I will play this with him and with his friends if they come round. It'll give me a good opportunity to see what the changes are and will give me the ability to provide feedback about how the game plays compared to earlier versions. I doubt having any complaints

 

[Plum]

Unfortunately I will miss the disjointed Bair though - I don't understand why they changed it. wasn't it disjointed for a reason? but obviously my say on that is null, I'll deal with the new bair. Also for the record I kept forgetting that his Fsmash would shake the whole stage, and I rarely played in 2v2s anyway. XD <- fail.

To continue this would probably belong in the DDD thread, but its easiest to see here ._.
Bair was to put it simply, insanely good. Pictures say it best, so here's the hitbox on his old Bair.

The hitbox is extended well beyond his actual foot. Granted its not quite Snake Utilt stupid in terms of where the hitbox should actually be, its status as an aerial makes it arguably much worse. DDD can use that whenever he wants, where as Snake was limited to the ground. The hitbox isn't the only issue with the move though. It hits on frame 6, which is very fast. Think of how fast a normal grab is, and that's how quick his Bair is. Not only that, but the move had IASA on it just soon enough to allow two Bair's in a single short hop. Slap on some low lag, high damage, and you have yourself a move that's excellent on shields, utterly walls several characters entire movesets on its own, pokes, and does everything you could ever ask in a move including WoP at the right percents. Add DDD's four jumps and you have a wall that's virtually impossible for some characters to get through. There are characters that could deal with it, but when one move counters entire characters then it should be fixed.

The new changes set out to fix the main issues with Bair. The first is its huge hitbox. Its no wonder it walled so well when it was so heavily disjointed. By making the move match the animation you still have a very quick aerial useful for pokes, but it won't wall out characters. Second is the damage reduction. Doing less damage means it won't hit shields as hard. Lastly, the shift in IASA means its no longer possible to do two Bair's in one short hop, though it is still possible to SH Bair, double jump. DDD has other options to fill in Bair's place that were already there. Fair for example has always had around the range and power as Bair it just takes more commitment to use Fair. Now its a question on whether you want range and power, and use Fair, or want speed and less commitment to an action with Bair.

Hopefully that also clears up anyone else wondering about the changes.
I'm happy with the changes as a DDD player, and I'm glad its been well accepted from so many here.

 

[JCaesar]

^^ What he said

Would the ddd update have happened anyway if Vex didn't molest Hackfest?

They were already being talked about before Hackfest. Vex himself was one of the people pushing these nerfs, along with several other high-level DDD players.

/DDD discussion

 

[Isatis]

Uploading a new GCT and TXT now for D3 changes

/this was way overdue

 

[iLink]

Did the changes in the GCT only effect DDD or are there other changes?

 

[VietGeek]

the .GCT has an updated walljump/scar jumping code that is based on a frame timer instead (so that you can't "climb" ledges anymore [happened often on sloped edges if you want to see yourself with the old code)

and...

reverted the Replay Code back to the one liner that is more consistent in saving replays of 4P games, but does not show the Replay button after 3 minutes.

 

[Pete278]

I'm probably out of line on this but I want to mention; if you have problems, make sure that the USB loader has a hook and ocarina enabled. As a fellow PAL Wii user I have to use Neogamma to boot the game and it doesn't load the SD card codes unless a hook is enabled and ocarina is enabled. Personally I use GC pad as the hook and it works, and I'm not sure whether others work (or even if you have to enable them) but if you can't get it to load normally, try that.

Could you send me some instructional pms, then? I'm going to a fest today, and a few of the guys want to play Brawl+, so I'd like to give them 6.0, but nobody's told me how to yet.

 

[Isatis]

http://brawlplus.net/downloads/updater.exe

Speaking of which, new Samus update out

 

[GPDP]

Nice. What was changed?

 

[Plum]

An autolooping combo Samus had, Down B to Fair to Down B to Fair to Down B to Fair to Down B to Fair, and that could keep going to very high percents, and Samus could finish it with a Dair if she was at the ledge.

 

[kirox777]

Bolded: That has nothing to do with the hitstun. Those matches went down to that because of three reasons: it's play to win (meaning play as gay as possible if you have to), those two characters (Peach and Ivysaur) have some form of projectile and are able to get away by running and throwing projectiles out, and finally, in that match-up there's no reward in going on the offensive as you can accomplish the same thing by just running and "spamming" a projectile, dealing damage over time and gaining the percent lead to time them out.

That situation has happened in Melee before, there's like one good match on YT of Vidjo (Peach) vs a Fox on Poke Floats... it goes up to 7 minutes believe it or not. Of course, most people in Melee play offensively, however the defense is still quite good.

Increasing the hitstun would not change that, all that would do is enhance the reward for going offensive and even when the hitstun was that high in RC1, it was still better (in that specific match-up or others like it) to hit and run.

As to the rest of your post, here's what I will tell you:

Hitstun was lowered to get rid of true combos as being the only combos and instead force a focus on techchasing and predicting your opponent's DI. Not only does this enforce some amount of skill, it also deepens the game, especially the characters. True combos are still important but, they are not the end all be all. Plus, it also gets rid of "autocombos" as people call them.

It's not going up because some people can't seem to grasp the idea of actually working for their combos.

ok i guess it makes sense. i like it like this now, brawl+ for better brawl gameplay, project m for combos that seems fine for me sakurai should really be taking notes!

 

[kirox777]

When did you start playing? Because early on he was a prime candidate for bottom tier, simply because lots of people thought so and not many people actually played him. That led to a nice slew of buffs...which were just compensated for.

i think thats it. give characters who suck massive buffs like ddd then when people use him and get good then we complain then nerf him a lil

 

[CMDG]

I would like to request something. Could you guys replace Jungle and place it on an other map (ie: Hanenbow or mario bros). I would like to play the original temple stage.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Why is there an 11-line "Shield during Dashdash 2.0" code AND a 6-line "Shield during Dashdance" code in the .txt file?

EDIT: Also, the .txt file no longer includes the Scar Jumpimg code. Without that, what's the point of the 64 frame between walljump code?

 

[HeroFalcon7]

I wanted to know besides character changes, were any changes made to stages, or skins? Btw, in 5.0 version of Brawl + I don't think there was meteor canceling. Does 6.0 have it like Melee?

 

[CountKaiser]

Brawl has always had meteor canceling, see ROB never dying from spikes.

Brawl+ never changed that, but some spikes are simply too powerful for some characters to recover from, like Ganon's wiztruck and ness's dair.

 

[XSilvenX]

Even without his CG I quickly realised that the addition of hitstun made his moves become scarily good combos. the quake hammer surprised me to be truthful, but it's been removed now so that's that.

Huh, funny. I've never gotten any freezes with that, but I remember people complaining, so it makes sense. common5.pac is just cosmetics on the SSS? that's all I ever saw it do.

This is gonna be so random but the Common 5 pac is also responsible for CSPs and in my experience it will freeze the game if you have too many portraits. For some reason I could never manage to 100% change the portraits because it would always hit a point where the .pac file would crash the game upon loading the character select screen. Is that the problem the quoted guy was having..?

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

this might be a stupid question but if i use the automatic updated will it get me the samus and ddd updates?

 

[RPGsFTW]

this might be a stupid question but if i use the automatic updated will it get me the samus and ddd updates?

I think so. It gave me the most recent Dedede/.gct update. And when it updates, it will most likely only change your Dedede.pac and Samus.pac. Then you'll know for sure.

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Using the updater will get you the new changes; using the .pac direct download won't, as that hasn't been updated (I downloaded that yesterday, and stuff didn't change, so I had to use the updater).

And I still need a response from a WBRoomer regarding these issues:

Why is there an 11-line "Shield during Dashdash 2.0" code AND a 6-line "Shield during Dashdance" code in the .txt file?

EDIT: Also, the .txt file no longer includes the Scar Jumpimg code. Without that, what's the point of the 64 frame between walljump code?

 

[5ive]

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/im5ive
Streaming 6.0 + update.

 

[The_Guide]

Have the snapshot files of the fixed set been uploaded onto the site? I tried using the auto-updater, but it didn't give me the correct gct.

 

[Izaniki]

I'm not sure if anyone else is experiencing this too or what, but when I ran the updater yesterday and started playing, the camera kept skipping every so often. Usually it was for less than a second, but it was still kinda annoying. Other times, the camera would cut to black completely for 2-3 seconds.

I didn't know if the changes to the GCT had anything to do with camera or if there may be a bug or if mine is just corrupted.

 

[Alphatron]

My camera moved over to the blast zone in one match and stayed there but that was it.

 

[JCaesar]

Pound 4 Brawl+ results: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=9324333

 

[RPGsFTW]

God ****ing dammit, I want those big Brawl+ tournaments over here! Not just these 8 people, if we're lucky, tournaments every Sunday. RRRAAAGGGEEE.

Also, I want vids from that tourney, and and all, though preferably just for singles.

 

[GHNeko]

Stage+ Hype+ coming soon.

:3333

 

[Alphatron]

lol, Ness in Pound 4. Awaiting the doubles vids since JCeaser's Rob is actually fun to watch in them.

 

[MK26]

Just echoing what PC said, but are we sure that the txt on brawlplus.net is updated to the latest codeset?

 

[Revan Skywalker]

I miss Marth in this Codeset, why did you replace him with Roy?

*wants double fair back*

 

[The Cape]

Why is there an 11-line "Shield during Dashdash 2.0" code AND a 6-line "Shield during Dashdance" code in the .txt file?

Oops

EDIT: Also, the .txt file no longer includes the Scar Jumpimg code. Without that, what's the point of the 64 frame between walljump code?

The 64 frames walljump code replaces scar jumping. Scar jumping just let you walljump and then walljump again 0 frames later, the 64 frame one lets you wall jump 64 frames later. This was changed due to the ability to wall jump to wall jump and such.

 

[MK26]

sooo...why 64 frames?

and other than that, it's all good, right?

 

[The Cape]

64 Frames was put in so that wall jump, rejump, wall jump could be done, but not wall jump to wall jump and such.

 

[MK26]

no...i mean...why 64 frames? and not 32 frames? or 80? or 63?

and id like to assume the rest of the txt is correct, can i get confirmation there?

 

[Veril]

Pound 4 was pretty sexy. I spent a good deal of time talking about B+, answering questions, and generally trying to change people's minds about this (sup Lain ;p)

I'll post a thread on this since after I get home from work since its going to cover a lot of material.

 

[ValTroX]

Guys, Yesterday I was playiing with my friends again, I played Mario a couple of times and I came across an Idea: Why not buff his Nair's initial hit(more kb) and nerf his Bair sourspot(Mario's front). One of Mario's most effective killing moves is his Bair, but i found myself using Bair against opponents that were in front of me(hitting with Mario's nose knocks back as much as hitting with his legs xD). So if you weaken his sourspot and buff the initial hit of Nair, i think we would have a more balance Mario(he's great already but just a suggestion)

 

[GHNeko]

Nair already *****. Why buff it even more. lol.

 

[cobaltblue]

The time for non gamebreaking char changes is more or less over. Although I have to admit mario really seems lackluster.