Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[JCaesar]

Kirby ain't broken. Top 5 sure, but not broken.

And I frequently play with best one. And he destroys me, not because Kirby is broken, but because Chu is a really really good player and knows what he's doing.

You wanna see a truly broken character, look at MK. He can shut down your options MUCH better than Kirby. He's just much more rarely played so it doesn't seem as prevalent.

 

[Deleted member]

I would personally pick marth over MK, but that's me.

 

[stingers]

kirby > marth > mk

imo

 

[JCaesar]

Ever since I stopped trying to use Squirtle and stuck to ROB, Marth has ceased to scare me, especially after he got nerfed to hell after BtL.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I still think that if it's THAT easy to define the top couple of characters (Fox, squirtle, marth, mk, kirby, luigi) then those characters are a bit too good. Pretty much all Luigi needs imo is more hitstun and maybe a damage nerf or two. I don't play the other 5 on that list, but I can recognize how good they are. If it's that easy to say who's the best, Brawl+ isn't really doing its job now is it?

I understand that some characters will always be better than others, but it shouldn't be so easy to tell, that is why I think those characters need nerfs, not because they are broken, but because we shouldn't have an easily definable top tier whose characters competitive players can flock to.

 

[PKNintendo]

Ah... Bowsers throws rock now!
His bavkthrow is killer.

 

[stingers]

squirtle? lol

he's really good but glaring weaknesses are glaring

 

[Sanu]

I dunno, I think that Kirby is broken too and so does KingAce lol (best MK vBrawl player in Canada)... MK hasn't been changed too much in Brawl+ and KingAce still lost to Runawayfire's (Minus) Kirby in a recent Brawl+ tournament and almost beat HolyNightmare's Rob -_-

 

[randomd1]

I've played around with most of the characters. Pokemon Trainer is extremely good now (esp. compared to vbrawl) Squirtle pwns everyone. Luigi feels like a spaceman to me, he's so floaty and fluid in his attacks. Rob's momentum side special is like the kiss of death on small stages (It will get you across Final Destination, btw) Map select screen seems a little odd. C. Falcon might need a slight speed up. MK is still MK. A "S" tier is still clearly present; however, it more readily merges into an "A" tier than before. The other tiers don't appear as obvious, though. Great work overall.

 

[Finns7]

Marth isnt really that good. He is solid and is viable and all that but you guys are makin him out to be something he is not. Kirby is hella legit, ever since this started back in the winter I also felt guilty when choosing kirby, he just wrecks some chars, I dont think he is OP, but in the right hand he is scary.

I think damage nerfs should be made to some chars. Fox, Luigi off the top of my head. I dont know if its needed though, because honestly fox is really good but he just gets comboed to hell and back and if he is offstage and he cant sideb then its gg's.

I main problem with vbrawl was how certain tactics were too easy yet rewarded the player (D3 cg, Meta gayness). I dont want brawl+ to be like that. I hate automatic stuff, automatic outcomes, automatic combos regardless of DI w/e, it depends though. When you use mindgames and prediction it feels more rewarding to me.

Mostly everything in B+ isnt like that, you do have options to DI correctly and tech.

 

[Sterowent]

nerfs don't scare me when they're accompanied with...'depth'.

if something's gotta be nerfed, buffs to switchup games would only add to the need to predict opponents and keep them on their toes.
so, nerf to basically guaranteed options, buffs to options best used through prediction. yes, easier said than done, but that's why it's 'ideal', you see.

on finns7's note, there Are some things like that in b+ still, mostly certain combos you'll see 5 times in one match by the same char (lookin at you, squirtle). a lot of all that stale stuff was removed though, and that's awesome.

 

[BurningCrusader777]

Sorry if this has been addressed already, but is there any reason why Ike's QD hit cooldown is back to being insanely slow?

 

[KOkingpin]

you guys also forget how good ganon is now. the only char in the top 5 you just named he has real trouble with is Kirby. When his up b is used right he is halfway impossible to gimp. CF can wreck their faces too. (electric Knee Kills squirtle at incredibly low percentages) Not to mention Falco's annoying campy ground game. Dedede can approach very well while in the air with Bair, Dair, and Nair. Pikachu is an annoying little rodent who can get in anyones face and completely shut them down. and what about snake? Great ground game and still pretty good at camping. Peach? Yall underestimate too many characters.

 

[stingers]

hey guys, in the new nightly, when you get 75m on random then you get the control test stage, not wifi waiting room.

and control test stage sucks ****

we tested more and apparently you either randomly get the control test stage, wifi waiting room, OR the normal 75m. wtf this sucks

 

[Plum]

Here is something that has been bothering me for a while...

Why is auto jabbing still in B+?

In all honesty it's just a bad mechanic :\
I really don't understand why Sakurai felt people weren't even capable of hitting A very quickly, but for whatever reason he made the game do one of the simplest things for you.

 

[goodoldganon]

Here is something that has been bothering me for a while...

Why is auto jabbing still in B+?

In all honesty it's just a bad mechanic :\
I really don't understand why Sakurai felt people weren't even capable of hitting A very quickly, but for whatever reason he made the game do one of the simplest things for you.

Screws up the jab timing on many of the jabs. Pika's is nearly unusable without and Snakes has like a 1 frame input window to get it right. It's just a larger hassle to remove auto-jabs and keep the jabs working like they have been.

 

[Plum]

Screws up the jab timing on many of the jabs. Pika's is nearly unusable without and Snakes has like a 1 frame input window to get it right. It's just a larger hassle to remove auto-jabs and keep the jabs working like they have been.

Thanks for the clear up.

That's a shame

 

[PanzerOceania]

Screws up the jab timing on many of the jabs. Pika's is nearly unusable without and Snakes has like a 1 frame input window to get it right. It's just a larger hassle to remove auto-jabs and keep the jabs working like they have been.

where is the code for those of us who want to use it?

 

[Mystic101]

Because GW's bucket is also a similar move, we should also compare them.
Frame Data taken from the GW board

Collecting:
☼ begins collecting on frame 6
☼ minimum total time out without charge collecting: 50
☼ 13 cooldown (13 frames where the bucket is not out)
☼ after a charge is collected (when a bar fills up in the bucket, not the collecting animation) it takes 72 frames to shield

Although the bucket's startup is quick it receives a lot of lag when it absorbs something, but the magnet can be canceled. So 9 frames of startup lag for the magnet should be reasonable.

you do know bucket can be completly usless right?

 

[Plum]

where is the code for those of us who want to use it?

Auto-Jab Fix [spunit262, Phantom Wings]
C2784774 00000004
7C7B1B78 809C007C
80840034 2C040024
40A20008 547B003C
60000000 00000000

 

[Alphatron]

Ever since I stopped trying to use Squirtle and stuck to ROB, Marth has ceased to scare me, especially after he got nerfed to hell after BtL.

You dropped Squirtle Knight? D:

 

[FrozenHobo]

Auto-Jab Fix [spunit262, Phantom Wings]
C2784774 00000004
7C7B1B78 809C007C
80840034 2C040024
40A20008 547B003C
60000000 00000000

thank you very much, good sir.

 

[Alphatron]

The auto jab thing isn't that bad. Until you guys mentioned it, I honestly forgot that I always push the button and never remember to hold it when jabbing. Why need a code?

If anything, I'm more concerned at how Sakurai made tether recovery with toddlers in mind. Auto tethering the ledge sucks.

 

[Roxas215]

Just realized this. The new sss is messing up the pics on the replays. Can this be fixed? Cause if not the sss really isn't worth it.

 

[RedyBz]

is there a good place to find peuple which play Brawl+ on wifi?

 

[CountKaiser]

The irc chat is a good place to go to.

 

[WheelOfFish]

Just realized this. The new sss is messing up the pics on the replays. Can this be fixed? Cause if not the sss really isn't worth it.

Noticed this too.

I've also noticed a problem that sometimes happens with Ganon's side-b. If used in the air and it hits somebody, occassionally, the opponent ends up behind Ganon. I never had this happen to me in vBrawl but I didn't play all that much with him then.

Aaaaand sometimes, while using a recovery move with straight horizontal movement on the main platform of the Delfino Island stage, such as Fox's side-b, they will completely go through the edge and fall to their death. Also not sure if this was in vBrawl, but it kinda sucks.

 

[Mattnumbers]

This is kind of funny and doesn't necessarily need to be removed, but if Lucas uses PKT to hit Samus while she does her upb (with the PKT going straight down), Samus flies way up to the top of the screen. It's pretty cool and it happened twice in one match so it's probably repeatable.

 

[PosthumusES]

I don't know if it my buffer or anything, but after I jump out of hitstun from Marth's F-Smash, and do the C4 with Snake, for some reason I turn around, and kinda did a reverse one 0_0.

 

[Yingyay]

I don't know if it my buffer or anything, but after I jump out of hitstun from Marth's F-Smash, and do the C4 with Snake, for some reason I turn around, and kinda did a reverse one 0_0.

If you was holding a direction then thats where you'll face when u do your B-move

 

[PosthumusES]

I was facing like this <----- and then I try to C4 and it turn him to face like this ----->

 

[Learn2Luigi]

I've also noticed a problem that sometimes happens with Ganon's side-b. If used in the air and it hits somebody, occassionally, the opponent ends up behind Ganon. I never had this happen to me in vBrawl but I didn't play all that much with him then.

I noticed this as well, just thought it was normal. Never play Ganon in vBrawl either.

 

[Doval]

Not sure if this has been brought up but Ganon's grounded Side B is glitched now when the opponent has no ground to fall upon (presumably because of whatever modifications were made to keep the move untechable after footstools were made techable.)

Rather than shooting down quickly as if hit by a meteor, and being able to meteor cancel, the character falls at what appears to be its freefall speed. Immediately after being released and starting its descent, the character performs the animation for a foxtrot , then continues to fall while frozen in their idle/standing pose. The character is completely unable to act until it hits the ground, if that ever happens. Additionally, the character has complete freedom to maneuver left or right, as if in a freefall. Because of this, it's possible to avoid a guaranteed death simply by freefalling back into the stage, although since you won't hit the ground immediately, Ganondorf will have a bigger frame advantage than usual; Ganondorf recovers before the character even hits the ground.

Since it doesn't lead to a guaranteed off-the-stage death, and since the opponent would have to be teetering right at the edge AND Ganon would have start the Side B up close so that he retains some momentum, this doesn't seem like something that needs a fix any time soon. But I figured I should report it regardless.

 

[GameSystem]

It's been known. You can easily kill people off the edge with it without the SD. When you are going for a suicide midair side b just DI toward the stage. If you space it right, the slam will take them off the stage in the standing position and they will die.

 

[_clinton]

Looking into Ness now again...with him having a buff to his fast fall I wonder what the idea of having him be able to hang out in the air longer again would be like?

In vBrawl, he could perform several two aerials in one short hop animations or use his 2nd jump after a lot of air moves...but with Brawl+ he is limited in his short hop after an aerial...he can only use one air move and if he uses an air move he can't use his 2nd jump after it...so he has to land again...so would him being a bit more floaty be a bad thing?

 

[CountKaiser]

In all honesty, I prefer ness as he is now. Personally, I'd much rather have a shorter sh. I continually get the urge to FF right after doing an aerial.

Meh, that's just me.

Also, what use is double aerial to Ness in brawl+?

 

[Mattnumbers]

Looking into Ness now again...with him having a buff to his fast fall I wonder what the idea of having him be able to hang out in the air longer again would be like?

In vBrawl, he could perform several two aerials in one short hop animations or use his 2nd jump after a lot of air moves...but with Brawl+ he is limited in his short hop after an aerial...he can only use one air move and if he uses an air move he can't use his 2nd jump after it...so he has to land again...so would him being a bit more floaty be a bad thing?

Actually you can dj aerials clinton, It's hard without buffer though. That's why I play Ness with 8 frames of buffer instead of my usual 4.

 

[_clinton]

In all honesty, I prefer ness as he is now. Personally, I'd much rather have a shorter sh. I continually get the urge to FF right after doing an aerial.

I like the sh the way it is...but I see more than one use with having Ness a bit more floaty...

Also, what use is double aerial to Ness in brawl+?

I could see it having the same use as vBrawl really...
Smacking someone's out of their shield after they block the 1st Nair
Smacking someone with Uair if they think it is safe out of dealing with Bair...

Actually you can dj aerials clinton, It's hard without buffer though. That's why I play Ness with 8 frames of buffer instead of my usual 4.

Oh, thanks...

 

[JCaesar]

You dropped Squirtle Knight? D:

vs Marth, yes. **** that matchup. ROB does much better.

Here is something that has been bothering me for a while...

Why is auto jabbing still in B+?

In all honesty it's just a bad mechanic :\
I really don't understand why Sakurai felt people weren't even capable of hitting A very quickly, but for whatever reason he made the game do one of the simplest things for you.

On several occasions I pushed to make auto-jabbing optional via handicap (kinda like that footstooling thing that was discussed here a few weeks ago) but so far no one has listened to me. I reeeeeally hate auto-jabs.

 

[Alphatron]

^Ah, no wonder.

I'm pretty sure this isn't possible, but is it possible at all to bring back melee tether recovery, or no? Not with Olimar and the like, but Link, Lucas, Samus, etc.