Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[GuruKid]

Are you forgetting that if you make a move better than it was in it's previous state, that's called buffing the move? I mean really, It doesn't matter if it was already nerfed. Making it better from that point is a buff to the character with the nerfed move, and Marth with a nerfed upB was still really really good.

Either learn to never use the move offensively or find some nerf so it's a tradeoff.

Wow.

GET 'EM, SILVEN!

I support the upb "buff" (move is reduced to trash now); just don't make it like vbrawl. Please.

 

[XSilvenX]

Someones getting a bit desperate when they resort to insulting me and using sarcastic comments.

Yes to your first part, If MK was still a great character without his Fsmash and had a variety of options, I would support keeping the nerf

I don't think this should continue in this thread, It's spammy and pointless since neither of us will change their mind.

I wasn't trying to insult you at all..I was just making a point.

I find it pretty sad that I've only killed with the move once since the nerf and it was due to terrible DI on my opponent's part. I'm more interested in other Marth players' (and people who play against good Marths) opinions at this point anyway because they actually have enough experience on the topic.

No offense but I think people shouldn't get involved in discussion on a character they don't play or play against on a regular basis because their view of the character will be a little skewed especially with the Brawl tier list brainwashing people. I mean yes the Brawl tier list means something but we've gone through so many changes it's not as reliable a reference anymore when it comes to characters being good/bad.

 

[goodoldganon]

How come whenever someone brings up Kirby's Bair, it's always ignored? It's seriously too good...I know you nerfed Kirby's Fsmash and all but that's not really what was wrong with Kirby. His Fsmash was fine how it was before, it's that his Bair is stupidly broken.

Bring me ideas that don't **** that move at what its purpose is, then I'll listen.

Kirby's B-air is gay isn't feedback.

Kirby's b-air is too good because it causes askew matchups against a portion of the cast. It does too much damage, gimps way to well, has amazing range, speed, and priority. I think nerfing the speed the move is out for would be a good way to nerf the move.

That's feedback. Most of that isn't even true, but you get my point.

 

[stingers]

Increase the ending lag...it's supposed to be a good GTFO move so it should come out fast, and there's nothing wrong with it being a killer because its range is poor, but it has stupidly high priority and ends so fast, it's nearly impossible to punish.

Increasing ending lag means that a poorly spaced bair can be punished, which is ideally how every move should be.

 

[CountKaiser]

What about Kirb's bair is so broken?

Also, I support fixing Martha's up-B. Stop hating on Marth, people.

EDIT: And I've been ninja'd.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I get where people are coming from when they say It should have a use, but I still think some for of damage nerf should be given to Marth(a).

On the subject of kirby's bair, I personally agree with stingers. You should be able to punish a kirby misspaces his bair

 

[goodoldganon]

So landing lag or lag after the hitbox is out?

 

[stingers]

Lag after hitbox is out. I can't say I've landed on the ground while still in lag from Kirby's Bair in a long time <.< landing lag would be pretty pointless.

 

[bajisci]

there is nothing broken about kirby's bair it has a lot of lag in the air so u cant wop with it really. it has short range, sure it has great priority but its one of his if not his best move so why shouldn't it be really good? =/ nerfing his fsmash was completely justified but nerfing his bair i dont think would be

 

[stingers]

nerfing his fsmash wasn't all that justified really. it was his only reliable killing move. the nair buff was kind of pointless too, but at least he has options I guess.

it was pretty similar in power to lucas' fsmash before it was nerfed actually...and there really isn't a problem with either of them lol. kirby's has more range then lucas', but that's not really a big deal...I think Fsmash was fine how it was before. nothing wrong with having an early killer...kirbys fsmash has a good deal of lag after it ends anyway.

 

[goodoldganon]

D-air to f-smash was stupid good on one of the best characters in the game. I also agree wit bajisci on Kirby's b-air. It's a great move, but any form of a nerf to it hurts the moves purpose. But I digress, we'll see what happens to Kirby down the road.

EDIT: I couldn't find the b-air frame data anyway.

 

[stingers]

How does the nerf I suggested hurt it? It just means you can't spam it and be safe anymore...you can still use it reliably as long as you space it well, it's just not a great brick wall anymore. And it's not supposed to be a brick wall, look at it.

That sounds like balance to me.

Oh, AFAIK, Dair to Fsmash isn't even a combo...

 

[cAm8ooo]

Lag after hitbox is out. I can't say I've landed on the ground while still in lag from Kirby's Bair in a long time <.< landing lag would be pretty pointless.

That's because the move always ends prior to hitting the ground.

I really dont see a point in adding more lag to it tho.

1. It cant WOP that well. Decent but not amazing and you say it should be punishable if spaced improperly but it already IS like that.

2. Adding any amount of lag may make the move last longer then his air time from a short hop. Which would cuz the landing lag as well. So you have to make sure you dont over-nerf it.

Spoiler

Especially since you have people like Matt who make me refund my over-nerf with another nerf.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Kirby's bair hasn't posed an issue for me yet. It's a good move, but it's not a broken good move. Basically Dedede's bair with less range. >.>

 

[stingers]

Making Kirby's Bair kind of like Ganon's thunderstomp where if you SH it you have to do it right away or else you get landing lag...seems kind of fair.

It's not like it has all that much landing lag either...

Have you played any good Kirbys, Tatsu? Lol

 

[cAm8ooo]

Making Kirby's Bair kind of like Ganon's thunderstomp where if you SH it you have to do it right away or else you get landing lag...seems kind of fair.

It's not like it has all that much landing lag either...

Have you played any good Kirbys, Tatsu? Lol

What do you mean it doesnt have that much landing lag? You dont know if it does or not, it always ends.

It's like his f-air. A long time ago i wanted kirby's SH to be shorter because i thought if it was just a tad shorter he would still have enough time to use his entire f-air. Well... i was wrong, he didnt have enough time for the move to end and it had a TON of landing lag. B-air is probably much the same way. These moves DONT auto-cancel. You just think they do because the hitbox always comes out before you reach the ground.

 

[bajisci]

the nerf fsmash was justified, it killed WAY too low. is very reliable and has a combo into it on a character that can combo so well and has an awesome recovery.

the nair change was awesomeeeeee it made a completely useless move so sweet, it greatly expanded kirbys options imo, he can punish spot dodges with it really well too and it cant be used unless ur ffing it into teh ground anyway cause of the insane aerial lag.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Have you played any good Kirbys, Tatsu? Lol

Quite honestly, not really. Just going off of move properties and videos.

The only amazing Kirby experience I have is from vBrawl.

 

[grim mouser]

I've been wondering this for awhile:

Once a "gold" release is hit, there will certainly be a tier list of sorts. I cannot see it possible to have every character truly equal. In that case, how will it be determined which character will be allowed to be top? As it is, top/"too good" characters are being nerfed to be closer to the others. This, in turn, makes other characters better in relation. So... what will ultimately be the "nerf line"?

 

[GHNeko]

The nerf line will probably be based of tourney results after Brawl+ goes gold.

Though at the end of this, I figure that it will be near impossible to win Brawl+ tourneys with a single character. :V

 

[exfatal]

iunno im a kirby main and a pretty good on, if i dont say so myself. the only thing i seem to have a problem with now is linking my Bair with my Fair. so say i miss my Fair i could quickly hit with my Bair.. it looks liek i cant pull that off anymore. that or it takes way to long now.

 

[trojanpooh]

Not sure if this is the place to ask, but suppose I want to turn off level freezer, and set buffer to always be 2 (not the slider) How would I do that? I tried just the way I would normally do it w/ the old gecko OS, but now I just get a freeze accompanied by a black screen w/ an error dump.

 

[SRTM]

wheres the online file?

 

[Revven]

wheres the online file?

There is no online file because it works online as long as both you and your opponent agree on the buffer.

 

[iSpiN]

What is the reasoning for the removal of Big Blue and when was it removed so I can look @ that change list.

 

[I LAG]

could you possibly make it so that all of the swipes in mks up-smash connect and give the last hit a bit more growth knock back.

 

[Queitaro]

Awesomeness!

I was waiting for somthing Great like this to happen to Brawl, and I wasn't going to install homebrew until it came around!
Huge Cred to the guys workin' on this amazing idea!
for some reason, the Brawl Flash Friend Finder isn't workin' for me... It just stopped...
So I haven't been able to find ANY online opponents, and locally, it's also a very scarce thing... sadly. Otherwise, I would be just fine...
So anybody message me for a challenge! I thrive on competitive Matches!

 

[...:::VILE:::...]

I think CF and GD should have Nb cancel.

When your on the ground these are your options when your doing your Nb:

Press R: You dodge on the spot (the down dodge)
Press R and left/right: You roll in the corresponding direction.
Press Db: You do your Db.
Press Sb: You do your Sb.

In the air your options should be:

Press R: Do and air dodge.
Press Ub: Do your Ub move.
Press Sb: You do your Sb.
Press Db: Do your Fb.

Maybe to compensate for making the punch's much less punishable, make the dodge frames close to the start of the Nb and maybe start up and end lag bigger.

 

[Alphatron]

Concerning Ganon's UpB. Can the hitstun not be fixed for that move? Characters can airdodge right after being hit.

Also, is it possible to use Pokemon Trainer and not auto switch upon death? If I wanna use all three but not switch when I die, would that be possible?

 

[...:::VILE:::...]

Concerning Ganon's UpB. Can the hitstun not be fixed for that move? Characters can airdodge right after being hit.

Also, is it possible to use Pokemon Trainer and not auto switch upon death? If I wanna use all three but not switch when I die, would that be possible?

I think the older brawl+ had that, try mixing codes.

 

[Revven]

Concerning Ganon's UpB. Can the hitstun not be fixed for that move? Characters can airdodge right after being hit.

Also, is it possible to use Pokemon Trainer and not auto switch upon death? If I wanna use all three but not switch when I die, would that be possible?

1) As far as we know, it is currently impossible unless getting the throw modifier and changing it like tha would do it (which we don't have it right now).

2) No. We decided that PT should remain his own character and leave the other Pokemon by themselves because most people just either want to main one of the Pokemon or main PT.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

To clear up, it's possible to no-switch on death with PT, it just prevents some other transformation moves and removed the only reason to play a single pokemon.

You could probably find the code, it just won't be official or used in tourneys.

 

[jalued]

im wodering if samus is ever going to get a small look at. i feel that she may need a slight upgrade,mainly that her downB mines should explode on contact if possible, or have a shorter countdown. would also be nice if it was possible to make her missile cancel easier to do, atm the timing is very strange i know ths carried over from vbrawl, but still feel it is just wierd)

 

[stingers]

I think Samus Down B exploding on contact is something they have planned once they figure out how to do it.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Samus, I believe, is already being worked on extensively. They're working on the bombs, and they've already fixed her up smash so it links better. I'm not sure if they are doing anything with the missiles or not, though.

 

[cman]

im wodering if samus is ever going to get a small look at. i feel that she may need a slight upgrade,mainly that her downB mines should explode on contact if possible, or have a shorter countdown. would also be nice if it was possible to make her missile cancel easier to do, atm the timing is very strange i know ths carried over from vbrawl, but still feel it is just wierd)

I would much rather she be able to jump out of the morph ball than have the bombs explode on contact. It would be useful in so many more ways. The missile cancel is fine as is. It just requires some practice.

Honestly though, samus is a good character and doesn't need anything, though the morph ball thing would be nice to test out.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I tested how much landing lag Kirby's bair has since people were taking about it earlier.
It has almost none at all, so that part of the argument against nerfing it is void.

 

[goodoldganon]

I was waiting for somthing Great like this to happen to Brawl, and I wasn't going to install homebrew until it came around!
Huge Cred to the guys workin' on this amazing idea!
for some reason, the Brawl Flash Friend Finder isn't workin' for me... It just stopped...
So I haven't been able to find ANY online opponents, and locally, it's also a very scarce thing... sadly. Otherwise, I would be just fine...
So anybody message me for a challenge! I thrive on competitive Matches!

Go to the IRC channel. People are always brawling there. http://www.gamesurge.net/chat/BrawlPlus

 

[cAm8ooo]

I tested how much landing lag Kirby's bair has since people were taking about it earlier.
It has almost none at all, so that part of the argument against nerfing it is void.

It doesnt have landing lag because the move always comes out and finishes before you hit the ground. I'm just stating that if you over nerf the move and add too much lag the move wont be able to finish before hitting the ground. Kirby's B-air does NOT autocancel in brawl much like his F-air doesnt. Those are common misconceptions. When i tested the F-air it had a **** ton of lag on it so im just stating that you have to be careful not to cause the same amount of lag to B-air by prolonging the move for too long.

Even if you add enough lag to it that allows b-air to still finish there is still no reason to nerf it. It's a good move but in no way is overpowering in either combo, spam or kill potential.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Cam, I literally did Bair and landed on the ground it the middle of it, it has virtually no lag.