Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[Revven]

No music hacks actually. I just pressed training and the game crashed.

It. Is. The. CSS.

In any mode where the CSS loads you HAVE to take your bloody time.

 

[WheelOfFish]

Why didn't it happen to me with other nightlies or the official build then? Maybe you mean SSS?

 

[Demacrez]

I haven't been having any CSS problems or SSS problems. I played for several hours and nothing happened. Do I need friends over for it to happen?

 

[dabridge]

The CSS crashes when there are too many button inputs, this has always happened. Why people are suddenly noticing I have no idea.

(playing with friends might make this happen more often as they don't know and make this mistake, just saying)

 

[Deleted member]

This thread is like a bastion of sanity. Thank god Brawl+ is tweakable...we never have to worry about ban discussions.

Group hug, everyone. This ban debacle is tiring.

 

[Dai Tian]

This thread is like a bastion of sanity. Thank god Brawl+ is tweakable...we never have to worry about ban discussions.

Group hug, everyone. This ban debacle is tiring.

This man speaks truth. Spend even 10 minutes inside the ban Meta thread and you come out half a man. But then you play a round of + as Falcon and everything's alright again. Brawl+ laughs at Metaknight and pulls out Metaknight-

 

[JCaesar]

MK+ is still the best by a fair margin...

There are just virtually no MK+ players because of the stigma.

 

[CountKaiser]

Well, all he needs are bad matchups in +, preferably a counter or two.

Does he have a bad matchup?

 

[homsar]

This thread is like a bastion of sanity. Thank god Brawl+ is tweakable...we never have to worry about ban discussions.

Group hug, everyone. This ban debacle is tiring.

<3

I don't believe he has a bad matchup yet, but Im not an authority on the suject, so don't take my word for it. As far as I know though, he still ***** balls in the right hands.

 

[WheelOfFish]

Metaknight is great, but I don't know about the best. If I remember correctly, heavyweights (particularly DK) can give him a lot of trouble.

 

[timothyung]

It's fine if MK get a few bad match-ups along with mostly neutral match-ups.
The problem MK has in vBrawl is that most of his match-ups are in his advantage, and the worst match-ups he has is neutral. It'll be fine if MK is neutral against everyone, and he actually has bad match-ups in Brawl+.

 

[KOkingpin]

Ive been messing around with MK quite a bit lately and have been think of making him my third main along with Ivysaur and Samus. I feel Samus is far superior to MK in B+ but MK is a monster in Doubles. I really just wanna play him to Intimidate other players. People who were vBrawl only still think MK is cheap and broken and what not but us old school melee players don't get intimidated by MK in B+. He actually has a glaring weakness now in his weight. i can kill him at 67% with an Ivysaur Combo into Up-B and with Samus he can be spaced with Z-air into some decent combos.

Man i just really love Brawl+ lol.

Im hosting the First B+ tourney in TN on August 15th and im taking videos of every match and posting them on Youtube. When it happens ill Link you guys to my youtube account.

 

[Revven]

Well, all he needs are bad matchups in +, preferably a counter or two.

Does he have a bad matchup?

I'm pretty sure that Fox and probably Kirby can give MK a run for his money and Diddy Kong could now probably actually counter MK given some of the new combos he has. But, extensive match-up discussion is required and there just aren't a lot of MKs in +. Though, I HAVE actually played the Kirby vs. MK match-up in + and I don't even use Kirby, I have videos too, they're old but lemme get'em out.

Kirby VS. MK 1
Kirby VS. MK 2

As I said, they're really old, at least two months. But, since Kirby and Meta don't go through very many changes, it's pretty okay to say that the match-up is pretty close right now. And SFG isn't even THAT good of a MK but, he dabbles with him just like I dabble with Kirby from time to time.

Make of them what you will.

 

[JCaesar]

The way MK+ shuts down options in the hands of a good, patient player is absolutely terrifying. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3aHPp_I270 and that was Omni's first time playing Brawl+. Imagine if he practiced MK+ o_O

 

[GHNeko]

I think Shiek can easily go 50-50 with MK. And this is before stage CPs.

WW feels like a good stage against MK because the stage size isnt favorable for him and his normal kill moves dont kill as well (dsmash, shuttle loop)

 

[JCaesar]

I agree, that's why I used Sheik rather than ROB or Squirtle. Alas my Sheik still needs work.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

So just to clear this up, the new engine codes will fix the link dash freezing stuff right? I mean, it's not that big of a deal, though. you can just shield, jump, or crouch out of it.


And I don't know why anyone would just stop dashing without doing anything in the first place.

 

[thesage]

Ness bair combos mk nicely....

Oh god I mentioned Ness.

 

[cAm8ooo]

I'm pretty sure that Fox and probably Kirby can give MK a run for his money and Diddy Kong could now probably actually counter MK given some of the new combos he has. But, extensive match-up discussion is required and there just aren't a lot of MKs in +. Though, I HAVE actually played the Kirby vs. MK match-up in + and I don't even use Kirby, I have videos too, they're old but lemme get'em out.

Kirby VS. MK 1
Kirby VS. MK 2

As I said, they're really old, at least two months. But, since Kirby and Meta don't go through very many changes, it's pretty okay to say that the match-up is pretty close right now. And SFG isn't even THAT good of a MK but, he dabbles with him just like I dabble with Kirby from time to time.

Make of them what you will.

I agree on the kirby comment. I would say their even or slightly in favor for one or the other. Now that MK doesn't have the kill options he once had, kirby can now hold his own a little better. With all of kirby's recovery options (multiple jumps, up-b, Side b, dowb b) it's not incredibly easy for MK's to gimp him. Since d-smash and Shuttle loop isnt wrecking face like they once did Kirby has a good enough life expectancy to get some **** done.

The matchup wasnt THAT bad in vbrawl anyways.

 

[Alphatron]

So just to clear this up, the new engine codes will fix the link dash freezing stuff right? I mean, it's not that big of a deal, though. you can just shield, jump, or crouch out of it.


And I don't know why anyone would just stop dashing without doing anything in the first place.

lol it happens when you try to crouch cancel too. Also, the walking glitch is the main problem.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

hmm it doesn't really happen when I crouch cancel. but still, will the new engines fix this?

 

[Deleted member]

Kirby+ is best in Brawl+, hands down.

 

[metaXzero]

Kirby+ is best in Brawl+, hands down.

Marth still stomps him >_>

 

[cAm8ooo]

Kirby+ is best in Brawl+, hands down.

Disagree

Marth still stomps him >_>

Agree

 

[JCaesar]

Yeah I think Kirby has more bad matchups than MK.

 

[Roxas215]

i think diddy is a fair counter to mk. Also zss does godly against him.

 

[XSilvenX]

Brawl+ livestream.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/insomniac-smashfest

 

[RPGsFTW]

Quick question. What were the main changes the Yoshi? Something about exiting his egg shield faster, and getting his 2nd jump back from an aerial Forward-B?

***Besides that, I was going to ask if Yoshi+'s Down-throw was gonna get a damage buff. Mine was still doing 4% all yesterday, and I thought that one of his throws was changed? Probably Up-throw instead? His Down-throw does 4%! That doesn't seem right to me at all.***

Also, I think it'd be nice if MK+ was toned down a little more. Maybe make Shuttle Loop have less KB? His repeated Shuttle Loop into lagless Dsmash is still annoying as crap.

 

[jalued]

Quick question. What were the main changes the Yoshi? Something about exiting his egg shield faster, and getting his 2nd jump back from an aerial Forward-B?

***Besides that, I was going to ask if Yoshi+'s Down-throw was gonna get a damage buff. Mine was still doing 4% all yesterday, and I thought that one of his throws was changed? Probably Up-throw instead? His Down-throw does 4%! That doesn't seem right to me at all.***

Also, I think it'd be nice if MK+ was toned down a little more. Maybe make Shuttle Loop have less KB? His repeated Shuttle Loop into lagless Dsmash is still annoying as crap.

or maybe just make the glide attack have more end lag... seriously just try to get round i, if hes spamming it, then it'll b pradictable. dont be too mean to MK lol

 

[MeGaBiTe]

I don't think Metaknight should have one of the two reliable killing moves he has left nerfed even more. He's still a great character but from what I've seen he's become somewhat weak at killing and he really doesn't need to be made weaker.

But MK should still be nerfed. His Tornado is still spammable and extremely stupid and his fair and bair are both so easy to pull off that there just isn't that much skill involved in the character. If anything the knockback on his fair and bair should be increased, and the damage from his tornado should be decreased. It's still hard to punish and I can almost always pull off around 15% from it.

The Yoshi buffs are very nice, though I think it may still take some more to make him a solid character. Still, I love his spacing metagame and I find him one of the funnest characters to play in Brawl+.

 

[RPGsFTW]

I don't think Metaknight should have one of the two reliable killing moves he has left nerfed even more. He's still a great character but from what I've seen he's become somewhat weak at killing and he really doesn't need to be made weaker.

But MK should still be nerfed. His Tornado is still spammable and extremely stupid and his fair and bair are both so easy to pull off that there just isn't that much skill involved in the character. If anything the knockback on his fair and bair should be increased, and the damage from his tornado should be decreased. It's still hard to punish and I can almost always pull off around 15% from it.

The Yoshi buffs are very nice, though I think it may still take some more to make him a solid character. Still, I love his spacing metagame and I find him one of the funnest characters to play in Brawl+.

I agree with the MK part, but I do think that his Shuttle Loop is still too effective. And the current way that he can easily carry an opponent off stage with easy hitting B-air/F-airs into D-airs kills just fine. I think he needs to get toned down a bit.

Still, about Yoshi, was his Down-throw really ignored? Is that why it still does 4% damage? I don't think that Yoshi is great enough that he deserves a Down-throw that does 4%. That is too weak for a throw, I'd say.

Also, like some people have said, I think that Bowser's Back/Forward-throws need to be nerfed. They seem too good at the moment. Thankfully, I heard someone say that those were going to get changed.

 

[Revven]

You can read what has been done to Yoshi so far on brawlplus.net, as far as recently goes his Usmash kills earlier, Down B kills earlier, Bthrow has a certain change and I think Uthrow does too. Dthrow wasn't touched yet (I say yet because we might).

MK's Shuttle Loop was already nerfed, go read the changelist on brawlplus.net and you'll see it has already been nerfed and now WITH DI you shouldn't die from it until at least a high % (real high mind you). MK already got a recent nerf to his Dthrow too (it's now harder for him to do follow-ups from it so it's not "easy pass" techchases).

 

[jalued]

can i just say, i recently had some more mates over and have now got Mr P and captain zeppo (both very good UK melee players) into B+. oh and FALCONS NAIR IS THE BEST MOVE CHANGE EVER!!!! APPLAUSE

 

[The Cape]

Yoshi D throw was unchanged because its uses are already extensive, but I agree that it could afford to do more damage. We can look into that for sure.

Trying to think of what we can do for MK. What about him is so crazy?

 

[Demacrez]

Yoshi D throw was unchanged because its uses are already extensive, but I agree that it could afford to do more damage. We can look into that for sure.

Trying to think of what we can do for MK. What about him is so crazy?

It's his victory. It's part of his destiny.

 

[jalued]

Yoshi D throw was unchanged because its uses are already extensive, but I agree that it could afford to do more damage. We can look into that for sure.

Trying to think of what we can do for MK. What about him is so crazy?

his priority is crazy!!! without that he would be only mid-high tier

 

[cAm8ooo]

his priority is crazy!!! without that he would be only mid-high tier

You cant really change priority easily because it's tied in to so many different factors. I'm not sure if the "transcendent" (or whatever that is called) priority can be gotten rid of because i dont know how that works exactly. The best thing to reducing priority would be probably to make his hitboxes smaller though i dont know if he really needs that.

His KO potential is fine right now. He's already received enough KB nerfs. Just watch out for N-air and dont get gimped and you should be living to good enough percents to do some damage.

 

[Sterowent]

****, would be awesome of priority were able to be edited though.

i like the idea of clanking. it's basically a parry. what i'd like more is parrying making sense in this game though, such as taking into account the fact that a fast ftilt might clank with a slow smash (or not, depending on balance and purposeful adjustments).

the ability to parry MK's attacks sounds extremely appealing to me. fixing things of that nature (aka, giving MK low priority, which is made up for with his disjointed hitboxes) would both be a creative way of balancing him as well as a fix that doesn't interfere with the rest of him as a character (though the ******* could use more complexity, but i've always been a fan of that ****).

 

[leafgreen386]

****, would be awesome of priority were able to be edited though.

i like the idea of clanking. it's basically a parry. what i'd like more is parrying making sense in this game though, such as taking into account the fact that a fast ftilt might clank with a slow smash (or not, depending on balance and purposeful adjustments).

the ability to parry MK's attacks sounds extremely appealing to me. fixing things of that nature (aka, giving MK low priority, which is made up for with his disjointed hitboxes) would both be a creative way of balancing him as well as a fix that doesn't interfere with the rest of him as a character (though the ******* could use more complexity, but i've always been a fan of that ****).

Clanking is based on one thing and one thing only: damage. Higher damage moves have more priority. Aerials do not clank unless they hit a special (aerial priority is governed solely by hitbox/hurtbox interactions, resulting in either one player or both players getting hit). However, damage is not the only thing that defines "priority" (even though it's the only true "priority" in the game).

A total of five things influence which hitbox "wins" when two players use a move around the same time:
1) Damage - controls clanking
2) Disjointedness - if you can reach your opp's hurtbox but they can't reach yours, you win
3) Speed the move comes out - if your attack simply hits before your opp's, you win
4) Invincibility/Super Armour - if you're immune to knockback and you don't clank, you win
5) Transcendent priority - if a move has this property, it will not clank with anything (see: MK's... almost anything, marth's sideB)

All of MK's moves do very little damage, but they're disjointed, come out fast, and have transcendent priority, which makes the low damage part not really matter.

I think I've posted a slightly more detailed explanation of priority in the past, but there it is again.

 

[CountKaiser]

If mk's attacks were to have TP taken away, they'd clank with anything, and stronger attacks would beat them out outright.