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[stingers]

The fact all the Magenta Names have the same philosophy here is probably not a good thing. :x

Just a random observation, not a knock or anything <.<

 

[Deleted member]

Notice that Manual L-canceling is the opposite for all of those criteria...

On the contrary. I think it fits all of those nicely. You could get punished easily if you didn't perform the move correctly, and it's totally a situational tech, seeing as how it's not imperative you l-cancel the move. Fox had to in melee; he had to lcancel his dair to properly drill shine. But peach didn't have to l-cancel..

 

[BananaTrooper]

This is just me being curious, not taking sides for the moment

How many people that oppose L-cancel in brawl+ can L-cancel with reasonable proficiency in melee?

For some reason I'm getting the sense that most who oppose it, can't do it. I might be wrong, so please post to the contrary.

 

[Blank Mauser]

The fact all the Magenta Names have the same philosophy here is probably not a good thing. :x

Just a random observation, not a knock or anything <.<

I actually consider myself one of the oddballs in a lot of arguments, can't help that I have to agree with shanus on some things.

On the contrary. I think it fits all of those nicely. You could get punished easily if you didn't perform the move correctly, and it's totally a situational tech, seeing as how it's not imperative you l-cancel the move. Fox had to in melee; he had to lcancel his dair to properly drill shine. But peach didn't have to l-cancel..

Not having to do it and it being imperative does not mean situational, situational would mean choosing whether to use or not to use it would both have advantages in their own rights in different situations.

 

[Shell]

@BananaTrooper: The members of the WBR are all technically competent players. Your assumption is entirely unfounded.

@DeL

1) I admit, it fits the first one well

2) Does not get you punished for messing it up relative to not attempting it at all (which are the same thing). Perhaps I didn't word this correctly. Messing it up should put you in a worse situation than not attempting it.

3) There is no "situation" about MLC. For a move that needs to be MLC'd it will be MLC'd. Exempt characters don't count, and are, in fact, one more argument for why it shouldn't be implemented. Bowser players need to learn to MLC but MKs don't....?

 

[stingers]

"Messing it up should put you in a worse situation than not attempting it."

Why is this a necessity? I don't see how. Messing up a DACUS or a Glide Toss doesn't put you in a worse situation.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

uh yea about yoshi..
he's pretty good. just needs his out of shield options (jump/upsmash/etc) and more knockback on down b. other than that I think if you buffed something on him it'd be overpowered. maybe make fair come out faster but if its too fast its too good.

edit: just checked falcons stuff

 

[Shell]

Messing up a Glide toss can mean rolling towards someone, which is fairly punishable. Messing up a DACUS can perform a dash grab instead. Depending on how you space your DACUS, a dash grab will likely whiff, leaving you in your (large) post dash grab lag.

 

[CountKaiser]

"Messing it up should put you in a worse situation than not attempting it."

Why is this a necessity? I don't see how. Messing up a DACUS or a Glide Toss doesn't put you in a worse situation.

It makes you think about doing it instead of doing it willy nilly? That's my guess.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

sorry for the misunderstanding, everyone...

 

[BananaTrooper]

@BananaTrooper: The members of the WBR are all technically competent players. Your assumption is entirely unfounded.

So auto L cancel was a collective decision solely by WBR? or was it due to prodding from the community?

 

[stingers]

Minor correction: Messing up a glide toss just means a roll. You can glide toss backwards. Glide tossing forwards is just as punishable as rolling forwards is, in any case. It's not a safe technique.

Messing up a DACUS can actually result in many things besides a dash grab, but in any case they're all just as punishable as the intended Usmash.

I mean, being punishable if messed up isn't something inherent to an Advanced Technique, it just so happens they turned out that way.

 

[Deleted member]

Responses in red.

Please, do not disrespect some of the more knowledgable people in the Workshop. You see, GHNeko, for example, is in the Worksho Back Room, because he tends to contribute to a lot of disscussion here.

So, please do not waste your time disrespecting others.

edit: SHeLL, I have the long answer.

Umm...I'm pretty sure Trooper was flaming (justifiably so) against Arkaether, not GHNeko. Which is kind of pathetic, seeing as how you're over and over again insulting Trooper's intelligence in your little red-breasted response. All the while promptly displaying the void in your reading ability - BT is not debating against Neko lawl

 

[cookieM0Nster]

sorry for the misunderstanding, everyone...

 

[stingers]

I was wondering about the random GHNeko references in his post @.@

 

[Arkaether]

cookiemonster, I am not GHNeko no matter how many times I use the v: emote.

Trooper was trying to (and failing) to flame me, and Delorted was trying to (and failing) to flame me. Mostly failing because they can't raise legitimate points and mainly just, you know, throw out "lol ur noob" as their argument.

 

[Shell]

@BananaTrooper: A collective decision of the WBR, correct.

@stingers135: You are correct. All I can say, though, is that in the very least, performing an action you didn't intend is more likely to get you punished than an action you did intend.

Regardless, I think those two adhere to the three qualities I mentioned far more than MLC.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

sorry for the misunderstanding, everyone...

 

[stingers]

"@BananaTrooper: A collective decision of the WBR, correct."

Refer to what I said earlier about all WBR members having the same philosophy

Not good though x.x

 

[Deleted member]

cookiemonster, I am not GHNeko no matter how many times I use the v: emote.

Trooper was trying to (and failing) to flame me, and Delorted was trying to (and failing) to flame me. Mostly failing because they can't raise legitimate points and mainly just, you know, throw out "lol ur noob" as their argument.

...................................2/10

troll harder please

 

[Shell]

@stingers135: Collective =/= unanimous. There's a difference. We're not always on the same page.

Also, let's stop any flaming and trolling, regardless of who started what.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

sorry for the misunderstanding, everyone...

 

[Arkaether]

...................................2/10

troll harder please

Nah, I'd rather not lower myself to your level.

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

For Sonic: At the beginning of Brawl, Sonic was good, he had it all, good combos, kills, and what not. Now I play Sonic and I think he sucks and he was ruined. I believe that Sonic's U-Smash should either be a kill move or spike. Tech chasing or kills = auto win for Sonic. He lacks amazing combos but his speed helps with that. I just think the U-smash idea was good, and his fair is weird, I used to be able to do f throw to 2 fairs but now its too fast and makes combos not work =/

 

[Blank Mauser]

"@BananaTrooper: A collective decision of the WBR, correct."

Refer to what I said earlier about all WBR members having the same philosophy

Not good though x.x

This is a good thing. We agree on the general direction and goal of the game, we just disagree and have different ideas and ways we think we should accomplish that. It just so happens this is one of the different ideas the majority is against.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

For Sonic: At the beginning of Brawl, Sonic was good, he had it all, good combos, kills, and what not. Now I play Sonic and I think he sucks and he was ruined. I believe that Sonic's U-Smash should either be a kill move or spike. Tech chasing or kills = auto win for Sonic. He lacks amazing combos but his speed helps with that. I just think the U-smash idea was good, and his fair is weird, I used to be able to do f throw to 2 fairs but now its too fast and makes combos not work =/

To get off of the trolling subject: I have tried sonic in Brawl+, and I will admit he is different, but you simply need to find how to punish better. Yes, Sonic isn't that good at comboing, and yes, the momentum makes him feel even faster than Brawl, but you will simply have to learn how to play with him, and see wha works.

That is all that I can say, really, as I do not have much experience as Sonic. :/

 

[stingers]

Its not good because there are players who disagree with you. And since this isn't a democracy, there's no reason for our opinions to be equal to yours. As can be seen with the secret voting

 

[BananaTrooper]

Learning happens on different levels. After training your muscles to perform certain things, over and over again, you should learn through something that is called muscle memory, which is accumulated with the process of repeating until it is right. This knowledge is stored in the primitive part of your brain, the part that has what is called "instincts" from your primitive, ape (monkey, caveman, whatever you prefer). If you must take over half an hour to perform a motion with your fingers (in this case, l-cancelling) easily, this part of your brain is obviously not evolved enough. So, I suggest that you get off of the computer (and Wii) and practice movig your hands and thumbs, because this part if your brain was supposed to be fully evolved thousands and thousands of years ago.

Obviously, in order to functon in this society of ours, you need to have a functional brain, correct?


Alright, this is just insulting to GHNeko. You do not have a fully developed primitive brain, and you consider him inferior in experience, knowledge, and ability? Well, that makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

Also, you state: "the people arguing against you." Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't you the only person who is arguing against him?

Just because you are able to land an L-cancel after practice at home playing against your mother DOES NOT MEAN (and get this, this is the important part) you can L-cancel.

Well, I don't see how that can be even considered an insult. You see, saying "your mother" does not make what you say clever, or witty in any way. In fact, it makes you downright idiotic.

Also, playing against your mother will not make your skill of L-Cancelling any better. Maybe you could elaborate on this, as this ruins the second part of your unreasonable statement.

1. Last I heard I was dissing some dude called Ark. Explain to me what GHNecko is. Or who he is. Or why you bring him into my flaming.

2. You wrote a very long and stupid paragraph that had something to do with my primitive brain. This leads me to think you BELIEVE ark's statement that he learned L-cancel in 30 minutes. Moreover, your style of writing suggests you LOOK UP to this ark dude. Which leads me to the conclusion you're not very bright.

But since you only posted once against me from what I can tell, I forgive you.

Next time you try and talk, talk outside the quote box. It's a ****ing chore to respond to you.

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

To get off of the trolling subject: I have tried sonic in Brawl+, and I will admit he is different, but you simply need to find how to punish better. Yes, Sonic isn't that good at comboing, and yes, the momentum makes him feel even faster than Brawl, but you will simply have to learn how to play with him, and see wha works.

That is all that I can say, really, as I do not have much experience as Sonic. :/

I used to be able to, he had actually combos passable to make him a decent combo character. But now with his fair amazingly fast you can't really do the combo which made me think he had a chance. The F-throw to double fair sent your opponent off the stage to set up a gimp, which was amazing lol. I think Sonic is ok, but with some changes he can be really good.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Its not good because there are players who disagree with you. And since this isn't a democracy, there's no reason for our opinions to be equal to yours. As can be seen with the secret voting

There are certain things where disagreement just doesn't have to factor in, and ultimately slows down the project. It just depends on what exactly the players are disagreeing on.

For example, if a bunch of players wanted to turn Brawl+ into street fighter smash we wouldn't necessarily take a vote and start over to rework Brawl+ with traditional fighting game mechanics. Its because its not the direction we want to take Brawl+, and people who don't like that Brawl+ doesn't adhere to their personal taste will hopefully find a game that does.

 

[Shell]

I'm going to bed, but I'll end by posting this here.

I trust you all remember the proposed M-canceling? Basically, you take normal L-canceling, but increase the risk and the reward, and add an element of depth to it. All lag is set to 50%. Successfully M-canceling reduces _all_ lag on an attack, but fouling up the AT produces more lag than normal. Additionally, performing the tech comes at the cost of ~1/3 of your shield.

Do you all see how this is different than L-canceling, and how it more closely falls under the three qualities I mentioned? It still requires the same technical skill, but now it properly punishes you for failing. Additionally, the shield cost forces you to actually consider, if only for half of a second, whether or not you will use it. I'm not saying the idea is perfect and needs to be implemented right now, but it's got the focus on depth I'm trying to impress upon everyone.

I'd like to reiterrate shanus's point that technical skill can come from precision of existing presses, not just additional presses (think Power Shielding). However, if we _are_ going to add more presses, try to think along the lines I've mentioned to add something more than just presses for the sake of presses. Good night.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Good night, people.

 

[stingers]

I see what you're saying then. Oh well.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm going to bed, but I'll end by posting this here.

I trust you all remember the proposed M-canceling? Basically, you take normal L-canceling, but increase the risk and the reward, and add an element of depth to it. All lag is set to 50%. Successfully M-canceling reduces _all_ lag on an attack, but fouling up the AT produces more lag than normal. Additionally, performing the tech comes at the cost of ~1/3 of your shield.

Do you all see how this is different than L-canceling, and how it more closely falls under the three qualities I mentioned? It still requires the same technical skill, but now it properly punishes you for failing. Additionally, the shield cost forces you to consider actually consider, if only for half of a second, whether or not you will use it.

I'd like to reiterrate shanus's point that technical skill can come from precision of existing presses, not just additional presses (think Power Shielding). However, if we _are_ going to add more presses, try to think along the lines I've mentioned to add something more than just presses for the sake of presses. Good night.

What? Hell, that sounds perfect! Please we need to try this.

Chlorine johns are hilarious.

 

[stingers]

That sounds pretty cool, Shell. I'd like to give it a shot.

 

[BananaTrooper]

To BananaTrooper:

Excuse me, but as I understand it, I said that I have chlorine in my eyes, and I could barely see when looking at the avitar, and Ark/GHNeko's avitar looked exactly the same. Secondly, I mention that I was tired, and I did not think to look back. Flame me for being tired, I honestly do not care.

If it is a chore to respond to me, then just do not do it. It is late at night, and I am sure that you are at least tired in the slightest bit.

Well, continue to flame me if you want, but this whole thing was a big misunderstanding.

Insult me, go ahead.

Alright, I will erase those posts of mine that I posted because I misunderstood fo the sake of keeping this thread useless post-free. However, I will leave this post up so that Banana Trooper can read it. Good night, everyone.

hahahaha

I'm sorry, but this made my night.

Chlorine johns! You learn something new every day.



I officially like you man

 

[Blank Mauser]

A few people, including myself, thought M-cancel to be a great idea. However, most also agree that we should finish the balancing of the game itself before adding a new, universal, potentially balance endangering tool.

Go ahead and keep making suggestions though.

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

Idk about tech skill in Brawl+. It seems odd and melee like lol

 

[Deleted member]

hahahaha

I'm sorry, but this made my night.

Chlorine johns! You learn something new every day.



I officially like you man

I can just imagine someone losing in a tournament: "excuse me, but as I understand it, I said that I have chlorine in my eyes, and I could barely see when looking at the tv screen" ahahhhahhahahahah

 

[cookieM0Nster]

hahahaha

I'm sorry, but this made my night.

Chlorine johns! You learn something new every day.



I officially like you man

You can use chlorine johns when you swim underwater (for the most part, mostly underwater) like 6 hrs a day :/

edit: and DeLoRtEd1, that wasnt a waste of a post at all...