Brawl+ Ness (SEVENTEEN ****ETY THREE)

[CountKaiser]

While the wind is good, there are mixed opinions on the SA part of the move. I have an idea for it, but I'll wait longer before I suggest it, depending on how people implement the SA.

EDIT: Did some bthrow tests.

featherweight(Jiggs)
vBrawl:101%(no di)
102%(upward di)

Brawl+:97%(no di)
102%(upward di)


Middweight(Mario)
vBrawl:119%(no di)
126%(upward di)

Brawl+:115%(no di)
132%(upward di)


Heavyweight(Bowser)
vBrawl:130%(no di)
143%(upward di)

brawl+:127%(no di)
142%(upward di)

Top Heavy(Captain Falcon)
vBrawl:121%(no di)
141%(upward di)

brawl+:119%(no di)
143%(upward di)

Take this as you will

 

[thesage]

I never really expected b-throw to kill until like 125% anyways, but that's really good data Kaiser.

Also, I'm putting some general info in the first post. I'll actually be motivated to finish it this time (I think)

 

[PKNintendo]

Hehe go for it Sage.

Darn, Ness backthrow got nerfed. Small price to pay I suppose.

 

[Revven]

It's not a huge difference in percentage though PK, at most it's like 2% =\.

 

[shanus]

it barely got nerfed at all. I expected a larger difference. In fact, if you attribute aerial momentum cancels in vBrawl which would let you live longer, Brawl+ backthrow is in fact better

There's your buff, thank hitstun!

 

[CountKaiser]

Quick question, guys.

Stronger fsmash vs. Longer fsmash.

Are you satisfied with the range increase to fsmash, or would you trade it for the bat having more KB? Personally, I have no idea why the bat was given a larger hitbox, since that wasn't the problem in the first place. I'd rather have the power, but I want opinions on this.

 

[thesage]

Up-throw should cg ffers like in melee (it didn't work on falcon due to a lack of hitstun, but I can have my dreams).

lol j/k

I think the new d-throw may cg.

Also the new pk fire actually holds people in now and if they do get out, they can't get out of the same side as Ness is on. I like it a lot.

 

[shanus]

Up-throw should cg ffers like in melee (it didn't work on falcon due to a lack of hitstun, but I can have my dreams).

lol j/k

I think the new d-throw may cg.

Also the new pk fire actually holds people in now and if they do get out, they can't get out of the same side as Ness is on. I like it a lot.

DI away is no CG on any characters that I tested.

 

[Lil'E]

Quick question, guys.

Stronger fsmash vs. Longer fsmash.

Are you satisfied with the range increase to fsmash, or would you trade it for the bat having more KB? Personally, I have no idea why the bat was given a larger hitbox, since that wasn't the problem in the first place. I'd rather have the power, but I want opinions on this.

Multiple Up B instead.

I'd rather it have more vertical range if possible. That may sound weird, but there are situations where I use bat after a badly DI'd fair or pk fire and the opponent is just one pixel too high for bat to connect D:

But to answer your question... I never had trouble hitting with the bat before the hitbox increase. I want a stronger bat.

 

[Alphatron]

Stronger bat please. I actually like Clinton's suggestion on its strength buffs. A tipper buff at least.

 

[PKNintendo]

it barely got nerfed at all. I expected a larger difference. In fact, if you attribute aerial momentum cancels in vBrawl which would let you live longer, Brawl+ backthrow is in fact better

There's your buff, thank hitstun!

Darn. Bested again.

I like the new bat. The new range is surprising and actually gets me more hits.
I don't think a stronger bat would be necessary over longer ranged bat.

 

[[TSON]]

Quick question, guys.

Stronger fsmash vs. Longer fsmash.

Are you satisfied with the range increase to fsmash, or would you trade it for the bat having more KB? Personally, I have no idea why the bat was given a larger hitbox, since that wasn't the problem in the first place. I'd rather have the power, but I want opinions on this.

I like the length it is now. As long as it still kills around 100% then I'm fine with it.

 

[PKNintendo]

Yeah.

GUYS!!!
I don't know if this works, but Ness has a pseudo CG on the spacies.

 

[Alphatron]

^CPU players or...

 

[PKNintendo]

CPU...

I faced against Fox and Falco.

 

[thesage]

Shanus says it's possible to DI out of.

 

[shanus]

Its easy to test. 2controllers, DI away and down, you can't regrab, but you can dash attack and sometimes fair.

 

[PKNintendo]

Ah oh well.

Still cool though.

 

[thesage]

You can also tech chase from that DI now that people don't go so far away from Ness after di'ing.

 

[PKNintendo]

Too true.


Downthrow is awesome now. It went from being utterly useless to being usable now.

 

[thesage]

It wasn't utterly useless. It's just that certain characters (usually at the higher end of the tier list) could di away and tech it without Ness being able to follow up at all...

U-throw is kinda useless now, which I'm sad about since Ness does a disco move during it. It was probably his 2nd best throw in melee. I don't really care since d-throw is so **** now though. PEEKAY INFERNO

 

[Deleted member]

Too true.


Downthrow is awesome now. It went from being utterly useless to being usable now.

utterly useless? ugh it's noobs like you who make me hate being a ness main. you complain about moves that had no need to be changed...and in effect you lessen brawl+'s integrity.

d-throw combo'd so nicely...and at low %s if they di'd wrong you could spike them to death

also lol @ a pseudo chain grab...the pseudo implies DI, moron >_>

 

[PKNintendo]

In vBrawl it was useless. His other throws were better.
The DI'd wrong? Nobody D"s wrong anymore.

Pseudo: pseu⋅do
almost, approaching, or trying to be.

That's what I was referring to. Moron.

It's *******s like you that form the community.

 

[Lil'E]

This is getting annoying.

The yoyo's seem to miss the second hit a lot more with the yoyo change.

And Zap Jump sucks when I need vertical recovery. The distance traveled horizontally is still most likely going to be followed by a PK Thunder unless you were really close to the stage too. =/ Which means 'olol lets jump in pkt easy kill'

 

[PKNintendo]

Yeah, but the yo-yo trips protect you.
And doesn't it spike now?

New yo-yo's>Old ones IMO.


Don't zap jump. Use the zap Fair. It's a much better proposal.

 

[shanus]

This is getting annoying.

The yoyo's seem to miss the second hit a lot more with the yoyo change.

And Zap Jump sucks when I need vertical recovery. The distance traveled horizontally is still most likely going to be followed by a PK Thunder unless you were really close to the stage too. =/ Which means 'olol lets jump in pkt easy kill'

reverse zap jump for solely vertical, forward zap jump for more horizontal.

 

[Lil'E]

reverse zap jump for solely vertical, forward zap jump for more horizontal.

Will try it out.

Yeah, but the yo-yo trips protect you.
And doesn't it spike now?

New yo-yo's>Old ones IMO.


Don't zap jump. Use the zap Fair. It's a much better proposal.

That's what I meant. Zap Fair that is.

And the yoyo's can protect me... that's all good, but not when I'm expecting it to actually connect with the second hit.

If the endlag from Down Smash was shorter he could actually lock Peach, Bowser(if done in front of him), Ganon, and Toon Link since up close the trip rate is 100% on all of them.

 

[CountKaiser]

I'm currently working on the yoyos to make them connect better. I'm also messing with the idea for a substantially stronger fsmash.

 

[Lil'E]

Is that magnet getting adjusted too? >_>



What exactly do you guys do for chasing offstage now? Since the removal of multiple up-b you are limited to two fairs and maybe an uair/nair or 1-3 nairs depending on the percent the opponent is at due to recovery issues.

 

[thesage]

The magnet is amazing lol. I'm not used to it's new range yet but in doubles I almost stagespiked my partner (luigi) with it at like 20 lol. It was amazing. Also if you block a multihit move (like Ness's fair) with the super armor it pushes you back to the stage. I think it's just fine the way it is lol.

Also lol at using zap jump pk fire. Use fair it is easier to control where you go. For reverse you could use bair or airdodge (I think airdodge works with it too). We should think of a new name for this, like reverse djc or something lol.

On d-throw, it's good now, though it is possible to di so you can't use it to set up aerials, that di sets up for tech chasing rather nicely. Falco was able to di away and tech before Ness was finished with the animation at nearly all percents.

I find d-smash rather useless since it clanks/is outprioritzed by a lot of moves. With u-smash it's not as bad since you can mindgame into it. That's really the only problem I have with him right now and I can live with it (besides bat being lol)...

Fair gets you like 40% combos now and can combo into dair. Before it was possible only if they di'd wrong.

Ness is pretty awesome lol.

 

[PKNintendo]

I agree.

Ness is easily high mid or possibly low high. (for once in like 10 years lol)

 

[AvariceX]

I got back from a tournament earlier today...stayed the night at Niko_K's house after and played HolyNightmare all night in Brawl+... Ness+ is sooooo **** now. Everyone else who was there was complaining about how broken Holy's Squirtle, Charizard, and Ganon are...then I play and within seconds Holy is saying "oh my god Ness is ****ing broken".

Money matched him in 3 sets earlier today... lost to his ROB 0-3, beat his Squirtle 3-0 (might have been 3-1), then lost to his MK 0-3 (but we both know I should have one the last game, I just got really greedy and then failed really hard on PKT recovery).

This contributes nothing, but I just felt like expressing how much I love Ness+

Also someone should ask NikoK about my Ness+ jesus combo >_>

 

[CountKaiser]

AvariceX, which ness set was this? 7/10 or 7/21?

 

[AvariceX]

I don't actually know what you mean by those numbers Kaiser sorry. If it has something to do with what version we were playing I don't actually know; Niko and Holy said it was the newest version and I haven't updated my own Brawl+ in months so I just took their word for it.

 

[PKNintendo]

Could Ness reuse his Up B? If so then it's the old set.

 

[AvariceX]

I believe it was the old set then, although in the MM's I was never put in a situation where that mattered (I really failed my recovery in the one game), but in friendlies I remember it only being usable once.

I actually used Samus more in friendlies though, she's really fun too.

 

[PKNintendo]

Well that's cool.

And I Agree, Samus is loads more fun in B+. But enough about her.
People we were really buzzing about Ness huh.

:0

 

[matt4300]

I got back from a tournament earlier today...stayed the night at Niko_K's house after and played HolyNightmare all night in Brawl+... Ness+ is sooooo **** now. Everyone else who was there was complaining about how broken Holy's Squirtle, Charizard, and Ganon are...then I play and within seconds Holy is saying "oh my god Ness is ****ing broken".

Money matched him in 3 sets earlier today... lost to his ROB 0-3, beat his Squirtle 3-0 (might have been 3-1), then lost to his MK 0-3 (but we both know I should have one the last game, I just got really greedy and then failed really hard on PKT recovery).

This contributes nothing, but I just felt like expressing how much I love Ness+

Also someone should ask NikoK about my Ness+ jesus combo >_>

Man that sounds priceless... but from the looks of the 3-0s it seems like if the opponent has range on ness, ness loses if not ness wins. (and **** that god **** robot ... so broken imo)

PLEASE tell me you guys are gonna put them up on youtube. Because as you can see in my sig I <3 ness (and samus)

 

[AvariceX]

I have several of the replays saved on my SD card (none of the money match videos...we said before we started that we were going to save every replay no matter what and then we only remembered to save like 3 out of the 9 or 10 games we played lol)...

I intend to put the friendlies up on youtube (including the jesus combo on Niko XD), but since this was apparently not the newest version of Brawl+ I'm going to need some help making sure I have whatever version of Brawl+ this was installed on my wii when I try to playback the replays to record them.

ROB+ is broken as hell lol...there's also the fact that Holy mains ROB in Brawl and in Brawl is in an entirely different league than myself.

Also I see Link in your sig, so you'll probably be pleased by the replay we got of a doubles match where Samus+ and Link+ beat MK+ and ... I think Squirtle+

 

[matt4300]

@o@ I'm gonna need your youtube account... That sounds sexy as hell.

hmmm getting back on topic... Ive been testing the newest nightly ness+ for a while now and his new Dsmash has a really sweet affect if used with your back to the ledge on recovering enemys. It slams them into the edge and pops them out at a downward angle ... it looks cool. though im sure they can wall tech it >_>'