Brawl - More balanced than Melee? Lie or truth?

[Samochan]

Now, what if I said that I was playing melee with a friend of mine and a couple people joined in. When I beat them they asked if we could play Brawl... after EVERY match. Are they ***** too?

Lols

Only winners can have the decency to ask to play another game, when it comes from the losers it's only johning.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Am I an *** if I win a match in Brawl and then ask if we can play melee? Then repeat that until everyone quits playing?

lol. none of my friends want to play melee anymore cause i win almost all of the time in that game.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Lols

Only winners can have the decency to ask to play another game, when it comes from the losers it's only johning.

Hahaha... oh, so true, so true.

 

[Danteh]

I just realized yuna's avatar is not a bird with a blue beack, it's peach :O

omg

 

[Jack Kieser]

I just realized yuna's avatar is not a bird with a blue beack, it's peach :O

omg

Oh God, now all I can see is a bird, what have you done?!?

 

[Cecilia K.]

I just realized yuna's avatar is not a bird with a blue beack, it's peach :O

omg

I like your tourney mains.

 

[IrArby]

I just realized yuna's avatar is not a bird with a blue beack, it's peach :O

omg

Same here for the longest time I thought it was a picture of Ridley and never gave it a second thought. I've lived a lie.

 

[Zankoku]

I've known Yuna mained Peach in Melee, so I didn't even notice anything about a bird until now...

 

[thumbswayup]

Holy mother of god, it is peach! LOL this whole time all I could see was a weird looking bird.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Hahahah... oh, the confusion.

 

[Cecilia K.]

Which way is it spinning? Left or right? If your answer was the previous shown, that's the side of your brain you are more reliant on. This determined why some couldn't see Yuna's avatar as Pichi-hime.

 

[Zankoku]

I hate that image. It's clearly spinning strictly counterclockwise, if you just pay attention to how perspective works.

 

[Cecilia K.]

Yeah, my point exactly. No offense X]

I mean it, try looking at it spinning in the other direction.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Holy **** on a **** sandwich with **** on top......with a side helping of ****. You're right, that is Peach in Yuna's avatar >_>

 

[Jack Kieser]

YGOTAS for the win.

 

[AlexX]

You basically just re-iterated what he said without overstating it like he did.

But that's the same with Melee... If you're playing a low-tier character and are facing a top-tier character, you have to be more skilled than the opponent in order to win. People keep saying a good Mewtwo can stand up to a good Fox, but that's not true. The fact they're on opposite ends of the tier list shows that a good Fox shouldn't be losing to a good Mewtwo unless the Mewtwo player was considerably more skilled, because Fox is simply the better character.

 

[Cecilia K.]

But that's the same with Melee... If you're playing a low-tier character and are facing a top-tier character, you have to be more skilled than the opponent in order to win. People keep saying a good Mewtwo can stand up to a good Fox, but that's not true. The fact they're on opposite ends of the tier list shows that a good Fox shouldn't be losing to a good Mewtwo unless the Mewtwo player was considerably more skilled, because Fox is simply the better character.

Taj. Look him up, buddy.

Also, not be more skilled, but you have to play considerably better.

 

[Fawriel]

1. How could anyone not notice that that is Peach in his avatar?

2. Why the HELL are you TALKING about it?

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Because if you haven't noticed, there hasn't really been much to talk about becaus a random noob hasn't come and made himself look like a fool yet.

 

[Demon Kirby]

Why the hell not?

 

[Corigames]

1. I can shange that picture's rotation on command with my mind. I understand the illusion and, therfore, can master it.

2. Yes, a low tiered character should, should, have a harder time beating a hit/top tier because that's how it works. It shouldn't be near impossible though, especially when they are at the same level of play or the low tier is higher.

3. Taj doesn't use his M2 in tournaments unless it's against scrubs. Just a note.

 

[Zankoku]

Or against Chu, because Chu plays M2K's Marth all the time.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

In melee I was a Pikachu mainer. I was a pretty good one as well, and won virtually all the 1v1 matches. Then the longtime members started chaingrabbing him with Captain Falcon and outranging him with Marth, and using fox to reflect his projectiles. Yet in spite of seven times more experience with Pikachu, I was able to easily beat all of them with Marth with simple shield-grab into throw-smash, and c-stick them into oblivion. I could easily 2-stock out of three the Marth mainer; who happened to be affluent in wave-dashing, L-cancelling, and dash-dancing; on Final Destination with a simple shield grab into a throw, followed by c-sticking the ledge.

Maybe Brawl is less balanced than melee. However, owning with Marth was a matter of mastering the c-stick and being able to shield-grab. That is why I prefer Brawl, except maybe at the zenith of competitive play.

 

[Zankoku]

However, owning with Marth was a matter of mastering the c-stick and being able to shield-grab.

You're hilarious, you know that? If you really want me to elaborate on this, I will.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Please do, because as funny as this is, it sadly, sadly worked in 12 consecutive matches. The dumb*** couldn't stop short-hopping areals because his **** anti-pikachu tactics were too secured in his mind.

 

[Zankoku]

Beating someone just by using Marth's shieldgrabs and fsmash is the indication of a bad player, not a broken character. I mean, I could bet you that it'll be just as easy beating that opponent by just picking Snake, shielding stuff, unshielding and ftilting or utilting out of shield. Or, hell, use three moves with Meta Knight - dsmash, up+B, and neutral B. These tactics are punishing, easy to do, and about as simple as shieldgrabbing, but anyone unable to beat people doing such a simpleminded strategy cannot be considered the basis for calling a character too good or broken.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Beating someone just by using Marth's shieldgrabs and fsmash is the indication of a bad player, not a broken character. I mean, I could bet you that it'll be just as easy beating that opponent by just picking Snake, shielding stuff, unshielding and ftilting or utilting out of shield. Or, hell, use three moves with Meta Knight - dsmash, up+B, and neutral B. These tactics are punishing, easy to do, and about as simple as shieldgrabbing, but anyone unable to beat people doing such a simpleminded strategy cannot be considered the basis for calling a character too good or broken.

I agree, but somehow, this simpleminded strategy was significantly more efective, even though my friends criticized me for chosing a character that I clearly was not as skilled with as Pikachu. Admittedly, I knew a thing more about Marth than c-sticking, but the most pathetic thing I ever witnessed was the Marth v. Marth battles in which I won by c-sticking the other guy to death while he tried to recover. I didn't even need to jump off the stage to edge-guard into a 45% KO with Marth v. Marth, yet I was clearly the less advanced player, hugged the ground except after throws, and never chased him off the cliff for a kill.

 

[Rhubarbo]

I agree, but somehow, this simpleminded strategy was significantly more efective, even though my friends criticized me for chosing a character that I clearly was not as skilled with as Pikachu. Admittedly, I knew a thing more about Marth than c-sticking, but the most pathetic thing I ever witnessed was the Marth v. Marth battles in which I won by c-sticking the other guy to death while he tried to recover. I didn't even need to jump off the stage to edge-guard into a 45% KO with Marth v. Marth, yet I was clearly the less advanced player, hugged the ground except after throws, and never chased him off the cliff for a kill.

Take it like a man and admit that you made an error in your original post.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

Only problem is I didn't. If I had, and this were not true, I would actually prefer it, and have a much higher opinion of melee.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Take it like a man and admit that you made an error in your original post.

People need to learn how to do this.

 

[Zankoku]

I agree, but somehow, this simpleminded strategy was significantly more efective, even though my friends criticized me for chosing a character that I clearly was not as skilled with as Pikachu.

And somehow, the strategy of "shield, unshield, ftilt" with Snake or "dsmash, spam neutral b, sometimes up+b" with Meta Knight is very effective against bad players. Guess what? It doesn't represent actually playing the game at a high level.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

And somehow, the strategy of "shield, unshield, ftilt" with Snake or "dsmash, spam neutral b, sometimes up+b" with Meta Knight is very effective against bad players. Guess what? It doesn't represent actually playing the game at a high level.

It does seem to highlight the differences between character tiers.

By the way, Marth's spamming is a lot worse than MK's and Snake's, because spamming with Marth requires only the use of his F-smash, and although it can be made more developed, well timed F-smashs' are all that is really necesary.

Ankoku, please understand, although it is a criticism of melee, it is, depressingly, true in my experience .

 

[Zankoku]

And your criticism is wrong, because it's based on experience with not-good players. >_>

If anything, all anyone has to do against Marth spamming fsmash is not get hit by it, run up and wreck you for missing. Fox can just stand on the other side of the stage spamming lasers until you get reasonably close, shield the fsmash/run away, then either usmash you or grab uthrow uair you. Sheik can just grab you or ftilt you or dash attack you or ANYTHING you into a fair, because that's what Sheik does. Falco can hop around SHLing you because shielding lasers does jack **** and you won't be able to get an fsmash in between those lasers.

I've heard of March/April era games in Brawl where Azen's Lucario's moveset consisted of roll, fsmash, and Aura Sphere, yet he ended up winning a tournament of over 50 people. Is this example a valid criticism of Brawl?

 

[Rhubarbo]

Ankoku, please understand, although it is a criticism of melee, it is, depressingly, true in my experience .

And that's about it. If the strategy you used proved to be effective, that shows signs of a bad player.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Spamming F-smash with Marth is much more punishable with Marth then it is with spamming tilts with Snake or d-smash with MK.

Whoring Snake's tilts can be effective just because they are so godly and have good shieldstun.

You block Marth's F-smash he just lost a stock since you just death comboed him or gave him massive damage from this 70% damage combo.

 

[Steck]

It's pretty unbalanced. But its not like low tiers can't beat the top tiers at all. Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29bTGlYirTg

But then again that Snake didn't use enough tilts imo

 

[The Halloween Captain]

And your criticism is wrong, because it's based on experience with not-good players. >_>

If anything, all anyone has to do against Marth spamming fsmash is not get hit by it, run up and wreck you for missing. Fox can just stand on the other side of the stage spamming lasers until you get reasonably close, shield the fsmash/run away, then either usmash you or grab uthrow uair you. Sheik can just grab you or ftilt you or dash attack you or ANYTHING you into a fair, because that's what Sheik does. Falco can hop around SHLing you because shielding lasers does jack **** and you won't be able to get an fsmash in between those lasers.

I've heard of March/April era games in Brawl where Azen's Lucario's moveset consisted of roll, fsmash, and Aura Sphere, yet he ended up winning a tournament of over 50 people. Is this example a valid criticism of Brawl?

Spamming F-smash with Marth is much more punishable with Marth then it is with spamming tilts with Snake or d-smash with MK.

Whoring Snake's tilts can be effective just because they are so godly and have good shieldstun.

You block Marth's F-smash he just lost a stock since you just death comboed him or gave him massive damage from this 70% damage combo.

Its really simple - If you don't miss, the F-smash can't be punished. You keep youself from missing by taking advantage of melee marths godly grab reach, and backthrow into f-smash/areal.

By the way, no one in their right mind would spam lasers against marth, Falco would be countered and then f-smash ledge guarded, whereas Fox just gave Marth a free grab if marth chooses to charge him. I know that F-smash is somewhat punishable, so I set it up so that I don't miss. Shiek might be a problem, I never faced a good one. My impression, however, is that melee marth's fsmash abuse makes metaknight fun in comparison.

P.S. - Steck - this game's "low" tiers never cease to amaze me.

 

[Samochan]

Its really simple - If you don't miss, the F-smash can't be punished. You keep youself from missing by taking advantage of melee marths godly grab reach, and backthrow into f-smash/areal.

By the way, no one in their right mind would spam lasers against marth, Falco would be countered and then f-smash ledge guarded, whereas Fox just gave Marth a free grab if marth chooses to charge him. I know that F-smash is somewhat punishable, so I set it up so that I don't miss. Shiek might be a problem, I never faced a good one. My impression, however, is that melee marth's fsmash abuse makes metaknight fun in comparison.

<_>

If you don't miss, ganondorf's uptilt cannot be punished. >_> The logic doesn't really work.

Marth's fsmash takes 10 frames for the hitbox to come out and 11 frames to hit someone on front. Shielding takes 2 frames to come out. <_< Anyone competent that's either not mindgamed or comboed into fsmash can easily block it and then punish it, especially on the pal version where it has more cooldown lag. If you want to set up an fsmash with marth, you need to do more than just spam grabs and fsmashes. Simple fsmash abuse does not work with marth, no matter how good you are spacing the attack.

And falco can spam lasers against any character, only competent powershielders and counters from shield give him problems and reduce his spamming a bit. But they're still good way to hinder movement on air as well.

Fox can also use rshdl which stands for reverse (or retreating) short hop double lasers. Fox can jump away from the opposing player and spam lasers that get only landing lag of 4 frames. He's also even more quicker than falco and a lot more mobile, giving him more room to spam lasers and definitely does not make him vulnerable to attacks unless it's a dumb or otherwise bad player.

 

[Zankoku]

unless it's a dumb or otherwise bad player.

You mean, the players Halloween Captain faces all the time. : P

 

[Samochan]

You mean, the players Halloween Captain faces all the time. : P

Lol buuurnd