Brawl - More balanced than Melee? Lie or truth?

[Benjamin Linus]

Less. Roy's got a pretty decent base knockback on a lot of his attacks, but Marth just wins all over the place after around 50%. How's that for attacks not making sense given physical build?


Bowser is bigger and heavier. Snake hits harder than Bowser.

okay maybe roy's fsmash isnt as powerful as i think, thats not my only point. he was just on example. Peach is light and floaty but he dsmash deals like 329u85032794082394082390x^10 damage.

Snake may hit harder then bowser but the fact of the matter is they both hit hard because they are both heavy set characters and the light characters like sheik or metaknight hit fast but not powerful.

Well...doesn't Marth use a divine weapon?

>_>

LOL this is very true.

 

[WastingPenguins]

Did that... did that REALLY connect? From that distance? I knew Snake's utilt had bananas range but holy cow.

 

[Corigames]

I would like to point out the Marth's unsweetspotted aerials do MORE damage than Roy's sweetspotted aerials, and are faster with less cooldown.

 

[ph00tbag]

Ahahahaha, so true.

 

[leafgreen386]

Ok linus, what the freak are you trying to argue? Or support that other nub's argument in? This topic is talking about balance between characters, in them having a fair shot at winning. It's not talking about what makes sense. If you want to debate what does and doesn't make sense in brawl and melee, start a new topic or something, because that kind of discussion here is nothing but spam. And if you're arguing that the characters are balanced because they make sense, you're horribly misplaced. Look at the argument you're trying to defend:

but lacks the brute force of say Ganondorf, who evens out his huge amounts of power with his turtle speed.

More like he gets ***** because his speed is so awful and his power doesn't make up for it at all. Ganon has to fight way harder than most any other character in the game against over half the cast, and usually ends up losing, anyway. Ganon is terrible. And yet, this is the person you're defending, the person who used ganondorf in an argument in favor of brawl's balance?

Just leave this thread. Seriously. You're not doing anything but spamming it.

 

[Amide]

fyi Brawl was delayed in the US so they could print more copies. I think the Japanese release was for similar reasons. Delay wasn't as long in Japan because the Japanese market isn't as large as the US one. Brawl isn't a perfect game, but the best characters in Brawl are much closer to the worst characters in Brawl than their Melee counterparts. Who is the worst in Brawl? I'd be picking from 20 or so characters because its really too hard to say. And its not like they're bad either.

QFT. Some characters are clearly better than others, but it's still pretty balanced.

 

[Demon Kirby]

0_0...

I knew the hitbox was insanely broken, but wow.

However, this pic loses points for being hosted on tinypic.

 

[ShadowLink84]

QFT. Some characters are clearly better than others, but it's still pretty balanced.

If that were true Captain Falcon wouldn't get ***** by nearly every character in the game.
At least in melee a skilled Bowser could be dangerous (Gimpyfish). In this game if you are CF, nearly every character is going to kill you.
balanced indeed.

 

[Sliq]

It's not necassarily the speed that kills Ganon, its the lag on all of his moves, even nair. His nair owuld be awful if it had no lag, but for some reason it has horrible lag, completely outside comprehension.

 

[Drunken_Dragon]

0_0...

I knew the hitbox was insanely broken, but wow.

However, this pic loses points for being hosted on tinypic.

now show the two frames before that when his leg actually swipes the hit box there infront of him. besides saftey > priority, your move could have 5 character distances disjointed infront of you, but if its punishable on block it means little to a player who is thinking and not just guessing. risk vs reward.



Sliq: so at low dmg dont try to link anything but uair or bair into jabs/mix up and keep them mid distance. recovery is a non issue on hit usually, a character with a bunch of moves with high recovery = character must play more defensively. plus you could always say.. space thing, considering all the pushback on block he gets. gannon = oki

 

[Zankoku]

I don't remember ANY frame when his leg actually covers the hitbox. Snake's tilts are disjointed, and I have no idea why.

 

[fkacyan]

I don't remember ANY frame when his leg actually covers the hitbox. Snake's tilts are disjointed, and I have no idea why.

Kojima sleeps with Sakurai?

 

[Drunken_Dragon]

no, it dosent cover the hit box entirely , but the leg actually does stick out beside him (it looks like they just cut the frames for the animation). the frame in that screenshot is after its already hit, with in like the first 4 frames of the move (because it's hit frames start very fast but has a large hit window). but, my point was there's more moves disjointed than snake's utilt, and it' punishable. not to mention, as far as hit boxes go, link is kinda chubby with the way he stands

 

[Zankoku]

Besides attacks involving a SWORD or OTHER WEAPON of some sort, I don't think there's anything more disjointed than Snake's tilts.

 

[leafgreen386]

Sliq: so at low dmg dont try to link anything but uair or bair into jabs/mix up and keep them mid distance. recovery is a non issue on hit usually, a character with a bunch of moves with high recovery = character must play more defensively. plus you could always say.. space thing, considering all the pushback on block he gets. gannon = oki

._.

Have you PLAYED ganon? Ganon has no trouble connecting hits, and in fact, his dair can be used to combo at lower percents, while his sideB is excellent for tech chasing. His problem is that if he misses anything, he lags, and gets punished for it. His problem isn't following up. It's actually hitting in the first place. Ganon will get ***** by faster characters simply because when he slips up, he becomes incredibly vulnerable. How many times per match do you mess up with most characters? Probably quite a few. How many times per match do you actually get punished for missing? If you were using fast, safe moves, then probably not that often. Ganon's lag means that for everything he misses, he takes a chunk of damage, and if your foe gets him in the air, it could be an easy 40% or more before you get down, depending on who you're playing. Ganon has to make every hit count.

 

[Benjamin Linus]

Ok linus, what the freak are you trying to argue? Or support that other nub's argument in? This topic is talking about balance between characters, in them having a fair shot at winning. It's not talking about what makes sense. If you want to debate what does and doesn't make sense in brawl and melee, start a new topic or something, because that kind of discussion here is nothing but spam. And if you're arguing that the characters are balanced because they make sense, you're horribly misplaced.

Just leave this thread. Seriously. You're not doing anything but spamming it.

im sorry if you see my posts as spam. i did get off on a tangent trying to support an argument that i don't necessarily agree with. i completely agree that brawl is more unbalanced then melee. like i already said in melee it was possible to do zero to death combos and gimp which could at least help the lower tier characters. in brawl because of the absence of ways to get around counters its much harder for the characters who arent as good to win. and from what ive seen there are some serious counters in brawl. i havent seen one ness beat a snake or mario beat a De3. i dont think ill ever see it.

i can see how it could be mistaken that i was saying the brawl was more balanced, my mistake i was just trying to clarify what someone else was trying to say.

 

[GofG]

I personally believe that you cannot compare Brawl's balance to Melee's balance.

I am not saying that they are two different games, brawl's not melee 2.0 so don't compare it that way, or any other bull**** like that. I am saying that Brawl's balance is so weird that I don't want to even think about comparing it to Melee's balance. There are so many things to factor in, like the fact that camping appears to be the best strategy, but then why is marth a decent character even though he doesn't have projectiles, oh because his fair can be used to camp, what about rob he only has two projectiles and yet he can camp like no other, and why is fox not better than he is since his laser can camp like no other but wait maybe projectiles don't matter as much...

That's about where I usually give up. Brawl's balance is too odd and unlike Melee's to be compared to each other. Melee, the balance was very straight forward. In nearly every circumstance, a certain character was going to be better than another character. In Brawl, a character's worth is so circumstantial that it would take way too much analysis to figure out what characters are actually better than other characters. I'd rather just wait for tournament placings to develop so that a tier list can be crafted.

 

[Zankoku]

It's not circumstantial at all. The one who needs to approach less is at more of an advantage. How effective characters are at doing this are based on more than simple "projectiles or no projectiles," though they do play a major role in it.

 

[ShengNu]

too early :/

 

[Demon Kirby]

too early :/

100% AAA post. Absolutely genius.

 

[Anytime_Minutes]

I personally believe that you cannot compare Brawl's balance to Melee's balance.

I am not saying that they are two different games, brawl's not melee 2.0 so don't compare it that way, or any other bull**** like that. I am saying that Brawl's balance is so weird that I don't want to even think about comparing it to Melee's balance. There are so many things to factor in, like the fact that camping appears to be the best strategy, but then why is marth a decent character even though he doesn't have projectiles, oh because his fair can be used to camp, what about rob he only has two projectiles and yet he can camp like no other, and why is fox not better than he is since his laser can camp like no other but wait maybe projectiles don't matter as much...

That's about where I usually give up. Brawl's balance is too odd and unlike Melee's to be compared to each other. Melee, the balance was very straight forward. In nearly every circumstance, a certain character was going to be better than another character. In Brawl, a character's worth is so circumstantial that it would take way too much analysis to figure out what characters are actually better than other characters. I'd rather just wait for tournament placings to develop so that a tier list can be crafted.

Ok so, can i safely say brawls fairness is less?

 

[St. Viers]

^^you can say anything safely, we don't know where you live ^_^

 

[The_Dyne]

^^Hilarious.

 

[St. Viers]

but true, and that's what counts

 

[Anytime_Minutes]

That doesnt really matter cause im not really offending anybody

 

[bovineblitzkrieg]

Yes, you can safely state the truth.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Besides attacks involving a SWORD or OTHER WEAPON of some sort, I don't think there's anything more disjointed than Snake's tilts.

That's freakin' rediculous. No wonder I keep getting hit by that. And I play freakin' Marth!

 

[thumbswayup]

For some reason I enjoy playing against Snakes, despite the gayness.

 

[Nibbity]

hmmm, well if this is safely say the truth...then I think it can be a difference of opinion on a lot of levels...

for me, i'd think a noob in brawl has a bigger chance of beating someone better, because in melee, there were a lot of techniques you needed to learn (wavedashing, L cancelling, shffling, the list goes on) but in brawl, a lot of those things are taken away, not that I like that.

But my main point is a newbie could be a lot better, or it could be a lot safter to be someone like bowser and pit yourself against a much faster character and actually have a chance of not losing. In melee, I wouldn't pick anyone slow, because it was basically a win for anyone playing sheik, marth, capt falcon, etc.

it just feels like everyone is more equal in speed and stuff, but thats just my opinion.

 

[leafgreen386]

Why is that new people keep posting in this thread saying that brawl is balanced and lower tiers have a better chance at winning when we've already gone over that countless times in the topic, proving that it's actually easier to win with lower tiers in melee than in brawl, and that brawl actually has a smaller usable roster?

Nibbity, I'm just going to direct you to the past couple pages where your same argument has been rebuked multiple times.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Try playing Captain Falcon against Snake or Ganondorf against Ice Climbers.

 

[St. Viers]

or ike vs anyone with a projetile, except maybe fox.

 

[Mr.C]

Or lets just all go back to Melee?!

 

[Benjamin Linus]

Or lets just all go back to Melee?!

seconded. according to many melee supporters melee's large scale comeback should be occuring this summer in many of the east coast states.

LeafGreen: your absolutely right. i have also yet to see anyone give a good argument as to why brawl is more balanced. im almost ready to play devils advocate.

 

[Fletch]

im almost ready to play devils advocate.

I wish you would, I'd really like to see a good point coming from the Brawl is more balanced side.

 

[Deathcarter]

Well thanks to Suckurai, Melee will die thanks to Brawl and Brawl will die thanks to it not being competitive enough. Do you guys actually come here because you like Brawl enough to discuss about it or because you like to shut down noobs?

Brawl is terribly unbalenced between the entire cast. But there is one solution. Snake, Meta, Falco, Marth, Tink, G&W, ROB, Zelda, Pikachu, and Olimar are in their own tier "too broken for the rest of the cast and the rest of the cast in low tier. Then you have TBFTROTC (also known as the first tier) tournaments for them only, low tier tournaments for the rest of the cast, and Captain Falcon and Ganondorf gets banned to dissuade people from playing them competitevly. It seems to me that the majority of hard counters IMO comes from the first tier characters fighting the low tier characters. Also, all of the non-Snake/Meta characters in TBFTROTC have a winnable matchup against at least either Snake or Meta if not both.

There is no way to change how "boring" or unbalence Brawl matches are except the small miniscuel chance of stamina/heavy brawl matches being more viable alternatives.

(and before anybody says it, my ideas are pretty farefetched and conveluted and I will show myself out of the thread to save you the trouble. Please reply though.)

 

[AlexX]

Well thanks to Suckurai, Melee will die thanks to Brawl and Brawl will die thanks to it not being competitive enough.

This statement is silly. This is Smash Bros we're talking about here, since when does it rely on being competative to survive?

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Fine. Just replace 'competitive' with 'good.'

 

[AlexX]

Fine. Just replace 'competitive' with 'good.'

The only things people don't like it for are things that only competative players like us care about.

I mean, really... How many casual players care that hitstun is so low? Or that L-cancelling is gone? All they care about is beating the crap out of each other with Nintendo famous video game characters, and Brawl does that better than Melee since there's more characters to do it with on more stages with more lovely music.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Brawl will have a competative scene despite lacking competative aspects. Sure, Melee is more technical, but as long as a game is popular, it will have a competative scene.

 

[da K.I.D.]

^^ Da K.I.D. has approved this message^^