Brawl+ Lucario

[GHNeko]

lolk

10rofl

 

[Jaigoda]

Aura Stock is detrimental because it hinders who is ever winning and buffs who ever is losing. Lucario or not. If Aura stock only buffed lucario, not nerfed him when ahead, I'd be for Aura stock. But that's not how it is. If he kills well when he's ahead, and combos well when he's behind, why fight for something that basically says, "Hey. You're losing, lets give you a boost! And you...YOU'RE WINNING. THAT'S NOT FAIR. YOU GET NERFED."

It. Makes. No. Sense. It's detrimental to the competitve aspect of the game, and nerfs lucario for being in the lead. It's something that's forced upon you and something you have to deal with. It's something you cant control either.

You're WAY overestimating his disadvantages. If he's a stock ahead he only has a 0.9 modifier to his attacks, which is before accounting in his %mod. This means he has a very slight disadvantage which slightly helps stop the Lucario to rack a ton of damage on the other person before they can KO him (he's probably got 80-140% on him - one hit could do 10-15 damage easily). In other words, you get this tiny debuff in the face of a huge damage multiplier that is percentage aura. It's really not much of a disadvantage, and you'll still be hitting really hard.

On the other hand, if he loses his first stock before the other person and didn't have his aura boost, he'd be totally screwed in terms of KO potential. It would mean that unless the opponent is over 150% he's going to have to take a good amount of damage himself before he can even think about KO'ing. Honestly, Lucario is underpowered at 0% when the other is at 120%. If you take away his stock boost, you're essentially nerfing him down 1-2 entire tiers. Without it, if you lost your first stock before the other, almost every matchup would turn to like 40-60. Seriously, this would be a HUGE and completely unwarranted nerf.

Prove me wrong.

 

[GHNeko]

You're WAY overestimating his disadvantages. If he's a stock ahead he only has a 0.9 modifier to his attacks, which is before accounting in his %mod. This means he has a very slight disadvantage which slightly helps stop the Lucario to rack a ton of damage on the other person before they can KO him (he's probably got 80-140% on him - one hit could do 10-15 damage easily). In other words, you get this tiny debuff in the face of a huge damage multiplier that is percentage aura. It's really not much of a disadvantage, and you'll still be hitting really hard.

Okay. SO.

As I've said before, any net loss that Lucario suffers due to the removal of Aura Stock, is given back in the form of buffs to his other attributes. If he lacks Killing power afterwards, it shall be given back to him in a different form. And lucario kills way ealier than 150% in B+. I know that for a fact. he easily kills at 120-130 at low percents and 90-115 at mid/high percents. And I want to lower the cap of his Aura percents to lower percents, so he becomes more potent at killing faster.

The reductions of his stats are irrelevant because he can be rebuffed if his Aura Stock is taken away.

On the other hand, if he loses his first stock before the other person and didn't have his aura boost, he'd be totally screwed in terms of KO potential. It would mean that unless the opponent is over 150% he's going to have to take a good amount of damage himself before he can even think about KO'ing. Honestly, Lucario is underpowered at 0% when the other is at 120%. If you take away his stock boost, you're essentially nerfing him down 1-2 entire tiers. Without it, if you lost your first stock before the other, almost every matchup would turn to like 40-60. Seriously, this would be a HUGE and completely unwarranted nerf.

Prove me wrong.

Except for the part, if Aura Stock was removed, and this happened, we'd fix it so it wouldnt be like that anymore.

:|

 

[Jaigoda]

Okay. SO.

As I've said before, any net loss that Lucario suffers due to the removal of Aura Stock, is given back in the form of buffs to his other attributes. If he lacks Killing power afterwards, it shall be given back to him in a different form. And lucario kills way ealier than 150% in B+. I know that for a fact. he easily kills at 120-130 at low percents and 90-115 at mid/high percents. And I want to lower the cap of his Aura percents to lower percents, so he becomes more potent at killing faster.

L2understand Lucario. Seriously, at 0% even with a stock disadvantage, Fsmash (pretty much Lucario's best kill move) is not going to kill until like 140+% unless you're over 50% yourself. Almost all of his kill move rely heavily on having a big aura modifier to actually kill.

Basically, if you get rid of his stock aura, he's going to become inherently imbalanced unless you also get rid of his percentage boost (at which point you might as well just delete him). Why? Because if you don't buff his kill moves he's going to be at a severe disadvantage if he loses his stock first. If you are willing to buff him, however, you create more imbalance. Say you make his Fsmash kill at 120% at the center of FD when he's at 0%, thus making it easier for him to kill if he loses his stock first. Then what happens when Lucario hits max aura boost? He'll be killing easily at like 80%. His stock aura is what balances his percentage aura, and his aura overall is what makes him Lucario. Changing any or all of them will create a very discontented crowd, the last thing you want for a growing community.

 

[GHNeko]

L2understand Lucario. Seriously, at 0% even with a stock disadvantage, Fsmash (pretty much Lucario's best kill move) is not going to kill until like 140+% unless you're over 50% yourself. Almost all of his kill move rely heavily on having a big aura modifier to actually kill.

Stop giving normal Brawl percents. Lucario can kill mario at the edge of FD with an uncharged fsmash at 130% AT ZERO%

At 50%, he kill's Mario AT 95% at the Edge of FD.

I'm actually FOR the lowering of the cap of Lucario's Aura based on percents, meaning he'd reach his maximum kill power at lower percents due to the fact everyone doesnt live to ridiculous percents.

Basically, if you get rid of his stock aura, he's going to become inherently imbalanced unless you also get rid of his percentage boost (at which point you might as well just delete him). Why? Because if you don't buff his kill moves he's going to be at a severe disadvantage if he loses his stock first. If you are willing to buff him, however, you create more imbalance. Say you make his Fsmash kill at 120% at the center of FD when he's at 0%, thus making it easier for him to kill if he loses his stock first. Then what happens when Lucario hits max aura boost? He'll be killing easily at like 80%. His stock aura is what balances his percentage aura, and his aura overall is what makes him Lucario. Changing any or all of them will create a very discontented crowd, the last thing you want for a growing community.

Okay. SO.

The reductions of his stats are irrelevant because he can be rebuffed if his Aura Stock is taken away.

: |

 

[Jaigoda]

Stop giving normal Brawl percents. Lucario can kill mario at the edge of FD with an uncharged fsmash at 130% AT ZERO%


At 50%, he kill's Mario AT 95% at the Edge of FD.

I'm not making much of anything up. Try it at the center of FD. Plus, I'm guessing 130% is without DI. And anyway, Fsmash is pretty much his BEST killer, anything else will kill considerable lower.

Though I will admit, I was actually giving a very conservative estimate of vBrawl when I said 140%. my bad. It actually still applies, though.

I'm actually FOR the lowering of the cap of Lucario's Aura based on percents, meaning he'd reach his maximum kill power at lower percents due to the fact everyone doesnt live to ridiculous percents.

Did you listen to anything I said? If you buff Lucario's moves to kill well at 0%, you'll make him totally OP'd at 120%. Even if you lower the cap, you're still making him very vulnerable to an early stock loss since he'll be the same at 0%. The stock aura is a means of catching up when you lose your percentage aura advantage from death, and for not being able to go ape**** on your opponent when you're at 120% and they just lost their stock, giving like 80% to them before they can kill you. It doesn't matter how you change it, there's really no point as it's not balancing him more in any way (he's already one of the most well-balanced characters in the game). Taking from his aura is only destroying his original character.

He is FINE as is. And you, GHneko, should not try to force 'balancing' on a character you don't truly understand.

 

[Alus]

so it's no something worth arguing.

Yeah....why does you're opinion matter anyway Melo?

This is a game meant to improve upon Brawl to make a more fun and competitive game.

LOL WHAT!? Do you even know what the hell Sakurai was intending when he made this game???

On the other hand, if he loses his first stock before the other person and didn't have his aura boost, he'd be totally screwed in terms of KO potential. It would mean that unless the opponent is over 150% he's going to have to take a good amount of damage himself before he can even think about KO'ing.
Prove me wrong.

1. Lucario actually has kill moves D: ...... you have to realize that before anything... so he doesn't have to take damage for the kill...

2. that is what gimping if for..... if he didnt have the kill moves...which he has

3. His fault for dieing... he is a floaty yet a heavy enough character that responds strongly to good DI.

he's going to become inherently imbalanced unless you also get rid of his percentage boost

How so?

 

[GHNeko]

I'm not making much of anything up. Try it at the center of FD. Plus, I'm guessing 130% is without DI. And anyway, Fsmash is pretty much his BEST killer, anything else will kill considerable lower.

Though I will admit, I was actually giving a very conservative estimate of vBrawl when I said 140%. my bad. It actually still applies, though.

Lucario's fsmash kills at 90% when he has 50% when the fsmash is sweetspotted.

Did you listen to anything I said? If you buff Lucario's moves to kill well at 0%, you'll make him totally OP'd at 120%. Even if you lower the cap, you're still making him very vulnerable to an early stock loss since he'll be the same at 0%. The stock aura is a means of catching up when you lose your percentage aura advantage from death, and for not being able to go ape**** on your opponent when you're at 120% and they just lost their stock, giving like 80% to them before they can kill you. It doesn't matter how you change it, there's really no point as it's not balancing him more in any way (he's already one of the most well-balanced characters in the game). Taking from his aura is only destroying his original character.

He is FINE as is. And you, GHneko, should not try to force 'balancing' on a character you don't truly understand.

We can change the base knockback of a move as well as its potency at higher percents. A move that works well at low percents but kills to early at high percents can be tweaked to work the same at low percents, but kill later at higher percents. A move with 30 as Base KB and 50 with Knockback Growth will send the same distance intially at lower percents but kill later than a move with 30 as Base KB and 70 as Knockback growth.

The buff he generally gains from being behind a stock is not enough to really impact the match that much. Its a slight buff as it is a slight nerf, and only becomes worth something when its stacked. The percent at which he gets an increase is the same percent at which he gets a decrease.

And if you behind enough for it to stack at that point, you probably deserve to lose for being the worse player.

He may be one of the more balanced characters in Normal Brawl, but this is NOT Normal Brawl.

You say I dont completely understand lucario. I understand enough about Lucario to know what can be done to take out Stock Aura and buff him appropriately to keep him balanced.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Yeah....why does you're opinion matter anyway Melo?

First of all, who are you again? Why does your opinion matter? Don't give me that BS.
Second of all, I was referring to arguing with me about it. If you want to argue it, go ahead. No need to be a complete ****, alright?

 

[Alus]

First of all, who are you again? Why does your opinion matter? Don't give me that BS.
Second of all, I was referring to arguing with me about it. If you want to argue it, go ahead. No need to be a complete ****, alright?

Hey im not the one who ran in and shouted about how "ignorant" it was to modify lucario's aura stock...and then say that the argument didnt matter...

but yeah... i am starting to act like a *****... but you cant say that everyone aside from GHNeko and Falco400 isnt acting like a mother****er...

 

[Melomaniacal]

Hey im not the one who ran in and shouted about how "ignorant" it was to modify lucario's aura stock...and then say that the argument didnt matter...

When did I say anything about anyone being ignorant?
I said that it was pointless to argue with me about it ("neither of us are going to change our opinion"), because my opinion will not change.
Reading comprehension, come on, man.

Like I said, don't be a complete ****, and especially don't act all superior. You have no right to do that.

 

[GHNeko]

Thread needs less hate at members and more debate about Lucario. kthx.

 

[Alus]

Like I said, don't be a complete ****, and especially don't act all superior. You have no right to do that.

fine.... >(

*transforms*

=D

 

[Melomaniacal]

Thread needs less hate at members and more debate about Lucario. kthx.

You're right. I just can't stand when random people tell me my opinion doesn't matter. That's one of those things that piss me off like no other. Especially when they know nothing about me.

fine.... >(

*transforms*

=D

Well, then. Don't transform back around me, okay?

Also:

Post 666. :devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil:

 

[Greenpoe]

double the speed of lucario's activated double team... it can currently be shielded in many sitautions or just plain miss due to an opponents high speed (perfect example: jigglypuff's rollout). Alternative solution is making it so whoever hit lucario during his doubleteam is stunned like ZSS dsmash without any extra damage.

Let's take a look at Double Team:
You can be hit out of the first frame of double team.
You slow down when using it, thus making it more difficult to bait attacks and DT them while falling toward your opponent.
When you Double Team in the air, you drop quite a bit, making it extremely rare to land a DT while the opponent is in the air.
You can control where you appear by holding where you want to appear with it. By doing this, you can recover, and typically land the move before they can shield. If Luc messes up by either not reversing it or reversing the wrong way, they may be punished, or if used offstage, it may result in Luc's death.
Although the apparent risk is lower by halving the end-lag, the risk is still great, as a grab->combo->death.
There are some invincibility frames during which you cannot be grabbed, although a grab will not trigger it.

I propose more scaling knockback to balance it out nicely.
Due to changes in physics, upward killing has recieved somewhat of a nerf, but this is good as in vBrawl, 95% of kills where from side/up/spiking, and very few gimps, where in Brawl+, there's tons of gimps. However, Double Team is meant as a risky KO move. Since everyone dies earlier in Brawl+, and the gravity changes, it doesn't kill like it once did, thus, double team should have a buff in the scaling knockback. In vBrawl, it killed around 30-40% earlier on average than otherwise KO'ing them. I think in Brawl+, it should kill 20-30% sooner, so it would still be a good finisher with equal risk (The numerous flaws of Double Team balance it out).


About the stock aura, let's just remove the 0.9x and 0.8x stock aura, that way, it isn't anti-competitive, but it helps Lucario instead of hurting.

Slightly increasing the startup of Force Palm (forward B) would be nice. Lucario's grabs are all risky. Shieldgrab has one of the worst ranges in the game. Dash grab is really laggy. Force Palm has good KB at high %, but if you miss, you've got a Force Palm flame later on, but generally, you'll get punished if you miss the grab.

 

[storm92]

Hm, I don't really see why people would think Lucario wasn't good in B+.
He seems to be an extremely combo-heavy char that can link together all types of moves, can gimp fairly well with Fair/Dair off-stage, and can KO decently. Not too mention he's floaty so resists being combo'd.

The only problem I saw was how that he could link 6 aerials together in a combo at 0% and have it only be like 30 or 40%, then the same thing with Luc at 100% ends up with way more.
But that's just the side-effect of the aura.

 

[GHNeko]

I dont use DT at all when I play Lucario, so tell me this. Does DT create any form of hit like, like Ike/Marth's counter? If it had hitlag (or more) it could be used with high potential.

 

[Greenpoe]

I dont use DT at all when I play Lucario, so tell me this. Does DT create any form of hit like, like Ike/Marth's counter? If it had hitlag (or more) it could be used with high potential.

Once triggered, Lucario teleports and slides across the area very low hitbox. The hitbox goes away before the move is finished, so you may have to reverse it to land it. It was great for KO'ing in vBrawl in the first couple of months, but later on, people decided it was too situational for typical combat.
vBrawl's double team had:
Massive end-lag
Low Shieldstun, so they could punish a perfect double team
All the other problems I mentioned earlier.

So, increased scaling KB would nice for this move, and maybe a little more shieldstun, if that can be changed.

 

[GHNeko]

So...the move creates no hitlag?

 

[Greenpoe]

So...the move creates no hitlag?

Every attack has hitlag when it hits. Double Team is an attack. When Double Team hits, there is hitlag.

 

[Alus]

I think the move should stay as it is and be kind of like shield breaker for LOL

(not 100% serious atm)

 

[|RK|]

*sigh* Obviously you aren't going to change your minds Brawl+ creators, so either wait 'till the balancing discussion for Lucario and respond accurately to the community's wishes, or make sure to factor in his Aura Stock Boost abilities into his percentages. Like, at 0% he's his weakest, and at 172%, his strongest. That would also fit your wishes to lower the cap for Aura, because he'd reach normal Max power at a quicker rate, but each boost would make a big difference. 'Cause most of us like playing as Lucario at full power. And either way, lowering the cap is going to make us more dangerous, as we don't die as soon, and many characters will have to rethink the matchups, cause at like 50% they'll want us dead. That and our combo ability would be lowered. But, whatever.

 

[Greenpoe]

I don't think the aura cap should be changed...I mean, that's a global change to Lucario. I like the gradual transition from insane combos all the way to almost-every-move-KO's.

I'd rather have buffs put toward things that directly help Lucario's weaknesses...give make his f-tilt a few frames faster on startup, make jab a frame or two faster on startup, make Force Palm a couple frames faster.

Actually, does anyone use Lucario's f-tilt in Brawl+? I like D-tilt better than F-tilt now. D-tilt combos and has faster startup/end-lag I believe, although F-tilt has more range and 2 hitboxes.

 

[KarateF22]

About the stock aura, let's just remove the 0.9x and 0.8x stock aura, that way, it isn't anti-competitive, but it helps Lucario instead of hurting.

As tempting as that is.. as that essentially buffs Lucario... ive gotta say no. Leave the mechanic be. It gives Lucario a uniqueness no other character has. Not to mention it would make all matches with a semi-decent lucario extremely hard to 2 stock and nearly impossible to 3 stock. The mechanic is FINE. Do not fix what is not broken.

Actually, does anyone use Lucario's f-tilt in Brawl+? I like D-tilt better than F-tilt now. D-tilt combos and has faster startup/end-lag I believe, although F-tilt has more range and 2 hitboxes.

It has its uses.... but you are right. D-tilt somewhat eclipses it in usefulness in many situations. It cannot be perfect shielded, just normal shielded, due to dual hits, which is good.... i think a way to improve it would be to reduce its knockback and damage... but make it much quicker in its entireity so it kinda becomes another GTFO move for lucario.... however... i would test this THOUROUGHLY before implementing because im not entirely sure how this would alter lucario's meta game.

Also, can you look at my suggested changes to lucario on page 5? or at least pay attention to the one part i underlined.

 

[GHNeko]

As tempting as that is.. as that essentially buffs Lucario... ive gotta say no. Leave the mechanic be. It gives Lucario a uniqueness no other character has. Not to mention it would make all matches with a semi-decent lucario extremely hard to 2 stock and nearly impossible to 3 stock. The mechanic is FINE. Do not fix what is not broken.

It's not about wether it's broken or not, but once again, about the ethic/morality behind it. What it stands for. That is my issue. I'd have no problem if the .9 and .8 where removed. I just dont like a mechanic that rewards the person in last place.

Also, lowering the cap of Aura % is nothing more than scaling. In Brawl+, not one lives to 172 anymore. You normally die on average at 100-140. That's because of increased hitstun, reduced hitlag (harder to DI), and no stale moves (KB is always 100%/Rack up %s quicker.)

Because of that, leaving the cap at 172 means that Lucario will never reach full power because he'll be long KO'd before 150%.

172 is a percent which you could normally get to in Normal Brawl, but not IN Brawl+, so because of that, lowering the cap to a percent he normally dies at with normal/bad DI, scales his abilities to a point where its actually worth something. Ya feel me? If the cap was lowered to 140% which is a ridiculously high percent to live to in Brawl+ (****, 130% is high), he'd be able to reach full power within the normal life span in Brawl+.

 

[Greenpoe]

Make his uthrow send the opponent up and slightly forward at 60-80 degrees so that it is much harder to avoid his fair chain by DI'ing backwards... double or triple uthrow knockback while also increasing hitstun a bit to compensate for greater distance thrown but then reduce its scaling knockback to zero so it always does the same knockback (basically, turn uthrow in a set knockback move. it doesnt kill. ever. so might as well make it the ultimate combo setup move). Set lucario's floatiness back to vbrawl values. It feels like he floats TOO much now.

Make his upB not put him into helplessness. Make him always able to wall cling (or in other words, not require use of second jump and upb to wall cling... and be able to wall cling after the end of upb animation). Cut upb start time in half.... POSSIBLY reduce upb landing lag. Maybe some super armor for the startup frames of upb? Fix the glitch where if tapjump is off and he uses upb on the ground he cannot use it again until he jumps.

Make the entirety of nair, from start to finish, last slightly less amount of time (maybe 2/3 or 3/4) so one cannot as easily kill themselves using it off stage. Maybe up his dash speed slightly. Just slightly. Reduce entirety of sideb animation time when it doesnt grab (its fine when it does, just can be extremely laggy when it doesnt) to make it a less **** move.

Remove percent cap on aura property. Seriously. its pointless. If you let your opponent live to 200 or 300% you deserve to be punished for it. He shouldve been dead long ago.

double the speed of lucario's activated double team... it can currently be shielded in many sitautions or just plain miss due to an opponents high speed (perfect example: jigglypuff's rollout). Alternative solution is making it so whoever hit lucario during his doubleteam is stunned like ZSS dsmash without any extra damage.

Put no knockback on the first hit of his dair as that can sometimes knock them out of the second hit (you may have to experiment with this). Instead make them only flinch for the amount of time until the next hit of dair.

Thats about it.

Changing u-throw launch angle work be great for throw combos. The old b-throw to Aura Sphere is still fun.

No dair first-hit knockback would be nice.

No up-B helplessness would be really, really cool...but potentially broken.
Removing the aura cap is unnecessary, too, and it would be a complicated code. Even against Sheik, you won't live past 170%...unless you're on Temple. >_<
Lowering the time of the nair is unnecessary, because it was apparently intended as a move to work great onstage, but terrible offstage. I'd rather spend those buffpoints elsewhere.
Increasing double team speed...I'd rather have more knockback and smile when it lands than have it faster. Besides, much of the time when it does not land (in my experience), it is the player's fault for not reversing it or incorrectly reversing.

Also, lowering the cap of Aura % is nothing more than scaling. In Brawl+, not one lives to 172 anymore. You normally die on average at 100-140. That's because of increased hitstun, reduced hitlag (harder to DI), and no stale moves (KB is always 100%/Rack up %s quicker.)

Because of that, leaving the cap at 172 means that Lucario will never reach full power because he'll be long KO'd before 150%.

172 is a percent which you could normally get to in Normal Brawl, but not IN Brawl+, so because of that, lowering the cap to a percent he normally dies at with normal/bad DI, scales his abilities to a point where its actually worth something. Ya feel me? If the cap was lowered to 140% which is a ridiculously high percent to live to in Brawl+ (****, 130% is high), he'd be able to reach full power within the normal life span in Brawl+.

If any global changes will be made to Lucario, it should be something like this:
1.Give him a special code, the opposite of Bowser's thick skin, where he will take extra damage. (Damage) x 1.15=Damage taken
2.Increase his vertical launch resistance and horizontal launch resistance by 15%.

That way, his relative endurance remains the same, however, he reaches higher levels of aura faster. Regaurdless, it should error on the side of less aura. We don't want to mess up our combo ability!

If there was a way to remove stock AND % aura when two Lucario's were in a fight against each other, that would be awesome. If you've played a Lucario mirror and looked at the numbers, you should understand. It's essentially what GHNeko is auguring against times ten thousand. If there was no stock aura and no % aura (or at very least, a reduced % aura, perhaps 1/2 the normal % aura, or 1/4), then it would be a battle of combos rather than LOLOLOL YOU GET ME TO 150% NOW I OWN YOU.
Have you ever played against a Lucario you knew was much worse than you, yet it ended in a "close match" anyway? That's the problem of two stock and two % auras.

 

[KarateF22]

Lucario is the only char with a damageless recovery that goes into helplessness at its end. that's stupid. he needs to be able to hit after upb... besides... its kinda stupid that if he wall clings he can avoid upb helplessness... yet if he doesn't he can't? wtf?

Altering stock aura is unethical because fixxing non-broken things is unethical.

no nair change is understandable... what about my suggested ftilt change, what about that?

 

[Jaigoda]

Altering stock aura is unethical because fixxing non-broken things is unethical.

This. Seriously, it works perfectly fine, and changing something just because of the supposed 'meaning' behind it is just plain a bad idea. Keep the game as is unless it's actually hurting the game.

 

[GHNeko]

.....fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-----!!!



It is NOT the issue of wether it is broken or not. It is the issue of WHAT IT STANDS FOR. WHAT IT REPRESENTS. THE BASIS BEHIND IT. I DONT CARE IF ITS BROKEN OR NOT. THE BASIS BEHIND IT IS WHAT I CARE ABOUT.


Holy ****. Seriously.

 

[KarateF22]

lol @ ragepost. on a more serious note.... lol.... ok seriously though. your personal petty issues are not my problem. it will not get "fixxed" or more appropriately... broken. it remains as is.

 

[GHNeko]

lol @ ragepost. on a more serious note.... lol.... ok seriously though. your personal petty issues are not my problem. it will not get "fixxed" or more appropriately... broken. it remains as is.

Its not a personal thing because it is factual that the basis of Aura Stock goes against what Brawl+ represents. And if a majority of the people who work on B+ feel that it needs to go, then it probably will go. So you have no say in if it stays or not, so dont act as if it does. :/

 

[KarateF22]

brawl+ fixes that which is broken. it doesn't fix stuff that isn't, due to ethical or other BS reasons. we SHOULD NOT fix stuff just because we dislike what it stands for. we fix it if it is broken ONLY. if they changed this it would set a dangerous precedent in which whiners fix everything just because they "dislike" it or what it stands for. besides, its how lucario works. weak when ahead strong while behind. that. is. his. playstyle. we aren't changing it.

 

[GHNeko]

brawl+ fixes that which is broken. it doesn't fix stuff that isn't, due to ethical or other BS reasons. we SHOULD NOT fix stuff just because we dislike what it stands for. we fix it if it is broken ONLY. if they changed this it would set a dangerous precedent in which whiners fix everything just because they "dislike" it or what it stands for. besides, its how lucario works. weak when ahead strong while behind. that. is. his. playstyle. we aren't changing it.

Wrong. Brawl+ does not only fix what is broken but what is anti-competitive and represents an ethic opposing what B+ stands for. Example: Tripping. That mechanic was not broken and was perfectly glitch free, but what it stood for was opposite of what B+ stands for, thus it was remove. Aura Stock falls into the same category of what it represents for tripping, thus, it should be removed based on that alone.


Its argument is not on the stand of I like it or not. I dont care for the general ability. I care for the reasoning behind it. It's anti-brawl+.

 

[Melomaniacal]

As long as you don't change the percentage aura, I guess I'm fine with it. I still don't really agree with it, but yeah.

 

[|RK|]

If you don't like it because it's a mechanic that rewards the person in last place, reverse it. It'll only help Lucario's to give up when their behind, rather than try harder. Removing the stock aura, that is. However, it seems you are going off of personal bias. Wait for the balancing thread for Lucario. Seriously.

 

[tedward2000]

What is going on here?

Anywho, Lowering Lucario's max aura boost peak from 172% to something lower sounds like a decent idea. But Lucario normally doesn't reach 172% in normal brawl in the first place. So lowering it in Brawl+ could be helpful, I dunno. It's just asking for a stronger character.

Also, the aura stock isnt as much as a hindrance as lets say, PTer's little problem. Removing the aura stock is removing what makes lucario lucario. He's known as the Comeback King for a reason. As for giving Extremespeed a damaging hitbox, there's no point to. He does just fine without one.

So then, is removing the quirks that make lucario the character that he is, making him better? Sure he has the "lucario moves", but changing him to that degree is not necessary.

Lowering the Max % Boost sounds fine in a faster paced game like Brawl+ ( or dont change it at all), but removing the aura stock is a terrible idea. It's your job as a lucario player to be able to win a match REGARDLESS of the aura booster/stock etc.
-t2

 

[GHNeko]

What is going on here?

Anywho, Lowering Lucario's max aura boost peak from 172% to something lower sounds like a decent idea. But Lucario normally doesn't reach 172% in normal brawl in the first place. So lowering it in Brawl+ could be helpful, I dunno. It's just asking for a stronger character.

It only seems fair to at least bring his maximum power down to a semi-obtainable spectrum in B+. :/

Also, the aura stock isnt as much as a hindrance as lets say, PTer's little problem. Removing the aura stock is removing what makes lucario lucario. He's known as the Comeback King for a reason. As for giving Extremespeed a damaging hitbox, there's no point to. He does just fine without one.

Its really irrelevant to the argument I'm making about Lucario's Aura Stock.

So then, is removing the quirks that make lucario the character that he is, making him better? Sure he has the "lucario moves", but changing him to that degree is not necessary.

He's still have his Aura %s, which is what he is mostly known for. More people know about Aura %s than they do Stock Aura. I just recently learned about stock Aura...like 1-2 weeks ago. It's not an important ability nor is it a really good one (imo at least)

Lowering the Max % Boost sounds fine in a faster paced game like Brawl+ ( or dont change it at all), but removing the aura stock is a terrible idea. It's your job as a lucario player to be able to win a match REGARDLESS of the aura booster/stock etc.
-t2

But its really unfair to the better player than the guy in last gets a boost. Yea. It's your job to win, but if you're behind held back, that's not fair is it?

And if you're losing, it'd be more beneficial to win without a crutch in the long run because you'd better develop your skill, at least in theory.

 

[KarateF22]

it is not a crutch. it is an integral part of lucarios playstyle. changing it would be wrong. leave it be. tripping is diff, fyi, as it is random and completely unavoidable and insurpassable through any amount of skill... it was kinda broken. lucarios stock boost is completely different

 

[|RK|]

In that case, who are you to talk about something you don't even understand?

 

[Greenpoe]

Let's compromise: Remove just the 0.9x and 0.8x stock aura.
My thoughts on Lucario isn't "He gets better with damage," but I see him as "His playstyle changes as he takes damage." He shifts from a combo-centric style to KO king...but what does the .9x and 0.8x aura do? It hinders him.

But most of all, I'd just like faster startup F-tilt (1.5x on startup)...and faster startup on Force Palm (1.35x would suffice).