Brawl Information Compendium & Social

[Demna]

buffer a dtilt in alternating directions
i think it's easy on ROB

It's easily said than done, all I asked for is specific information and all I'm getting is another version of the question
Let's assume you're facing right, what command should you input to buffer a down/up-tilt to the left side?

 

[infiniteV115]

So if you want to buffer a dtilt, you have to press down+A during the buffer window, but if you press down too hard you'll dsmash, and if you hold down for too long you'll buffer a crouch. But if you don't press it too hard, you won't buffer a dsmash or a crouch, regardless of how quickly you make the actual analog movements.

So, to buffer a turn around dtilt, press back and then input what I just mentioned above.

 

[Jackson]

Excuse the sort-of noob question, but what do you guys think are the most important and needed Advanced techniques for competitive play? (Especially Marth)

 

[Heartstring]

Stutter-stepping and Platform cancelling are probably the big two with marth IMO

 

[Jackson]

Stutter-stepping and Platform cancelling are probably the big two with marth IMO

Thanks man. Lucklily, stutter stepping is easy and platform canceling is... sort of easy.

 

[Heartstring]

Thanks man. Lucklily, stutter stepping is easy and platform canceling is... sort of easy.

Platform cancelling is really easy if you just do it with the control stick only, that way messing up means you just land on the platform normally, as opposed to getting a D-air, haha.

 

[infiniteV115]

There are a lot of ways to platform cancel and a lot of things you can do buffered out of a platform cancel where it's smarter/necessary to use more than just the analog, but yeah generally nothing useful requires a C-stick down input, and with a character like Marth you're better off avoiding the unintentional dair

 

[Jackson]

Platform cancelling is really easy if you just do it with the control stick only, that way messing up means you just land on the platform normally, as opposed to getting a D-air, haha.

Oh yeah that would make it less punishable if I mess up. But how do you do it that way? I learned that you had to Dair just as you reach the platform. It would work, but i would occasionally have those bad Dairs. So how do you do it with analog stick only? Thanks for helping.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

What is stutterstepping for?

 

[Jackson]

What is stutterstepping for?

Stutter-Stepping allows you to move slightly forward or backward when you do a smash. For example, if I hit my analog stick left JUST before I hit the C-stick left to perform Marth's forward Smash, I'll move just a tiny bit forward before hitting. That could make the difference between connecting with your opponent or just flat out missing and getting punished. It can also allow for some throw to smash combos that wouldn't work with a normal smash, like this: Marth down tilt on King DeDeDe, dash grab, forward throw, stutterstep tippered forward smash. You just brought your opponent from zero to 32 percent! Hopefully that cleared that up.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Oh, I knew that much. Just didn't expect it to be that useful (thanks, anyway).
This has a use on landing GR TIPPER F-Smash on Wario with Marth, right?

 

[PKBeam]

GR tipper Fsmash is done by walking forwards slightly towards Wario and doing reverse Fsmash. Stutterstep doesn't reach far enough IIRC. IDK if you can do it reliably any other way. But you do need to Stutterstep your Fsmash for hitting Squirtle out of GR.

 

[smashkng]

The easiest way of tipper Fsmashing Wario out of a grab release is SS forward and then Cstick to the other side with a certain timing. And Jackson, Fthrow to tipper Fsmash is not guaranteed from an Fthrow if you did a Dtilt before although due to DDD's poor options in front of him in the air it's still easy to follow-up on him from Fthrow. What is a true combo is 3 Fthrows to Fsmash or Dair on DDD (and you don't shutter step against DDD when you Fsmash).

To plataform cancel I use control stick down. If you mess up you're still very safe then. If I want to dash out of plataform cancel, I hold the control stick diagonally down first during the plataform cancel window and then smash the control stick afterwards. If I want to instant plataform drop I tap down and press R/L at the same time. But I think that if you tilt down too much you'll sidestep instead.

 

[Jackson]

The easiest way of tipper Fsmashing Wario out of a grab release is SS forward and then Cstick to the other side with a certain timing. And Jackson, Fthrow to tipper Fsmash is not guaranteed from an Fthrow if you did a Dtilt before although due to DDD's poor options in front of him in the air it's still easy to follow-up on him from Fthrow. What is a true combo is 3 Fthrows to Fsmash or Dair on DDD (and you don't shutter step against DDD when you Fsmash).

To plataform cancel I use control stick down. If you mess up you're still very safe then. If I want to dash out of plataform cancel, I hold the control stick diagonally down first during the plataform cancel window and then smash the control stick afterwards. If I want to instant plataform drop I tap down and press R/L at the same time. But I think that if you tilt down too much you'll sidestep instead.

Cool, good stuff.

 

[Heartstring]

Stutter-stepping has wider application too, you mix it with foxtrotting in order to emulate Fsmashing while running too.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

How do you catch an item thrown at you when you're on the ground?

 

[1PokeMastr]

Push your attack button.

Or.

Jump and push your air dodge/ grab button.

Or.

Dash attack.

Or.

Do an aerial.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I have alot of trouble against ZSS' armour pieces. I find them incredibly confusing, don't understand their properties. When I try to catch them they always hit me, they are also very fast.

 

[1PokeMastr]

You're very slow.

 

[Jackson]

Yeah

I have alot of trouble against ZSS' armour pieces. I find them incredibly confusing, don't understand their properties. When I try to catch them they always hit me, they are also very fast.

I feel the same way, the pressure can be tough.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

You're very slow.

I'm not. I just really find them confusing.

 

[Heartstring]

I'm not. I just really find them confusing.

Nickriddle did a guide on how Item priority/hitboxes work in his priority video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCpxfUlkWwI&t=285s

 

[extremechiton]

i have found this unusual thing where i can do a dash reverse up smash. has anyone else discovered this and does it have any uses?

 

[1PokeMastr]

Reverse jump cancelled upsmash, been known forever.

Throw your opponent off.

 

[PKBeam]

^ easier to pivot grab

 

[ぱみゅ]

Pivot grab will often not kill though

 

[PKBeam]

It does when you're Lucas. Or Ness or Olimar.
Also it kills in a crap ton of MUs like vs.

 

[NickRiddle]

Nickriddle did a guide on how Item priority/hitboxes work in his priority video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCpxfUlkWwI&t=285s

YAY I DID SOMETHING USEFUL!

 

[KAP22714]

Or you can use reverse jcusmash to approach the opponent with a hitbox that's closer to the end of the move (e.g. Ike's usmash) so if you whiff it they have less time to punish

 

[Jamwa]

Reverse usmashing is actually useful for characters like GnW who wants to be facing the opposite direction to reduce his hurtbox

 

[Demna]

I do understand the concept of attacks staling the more you use them and that you need to use other attacks to unstale it. However, I don't know how many attacks can stale and how much will one attack unstale the other attacks. Can someone please explain it in details? Plus, time has nothing to do with unstaling moves, correct?

 

[Jamwa]

I do understand the concept of attacks staling the more you use them and that you need to use other attacks to unstale it. However, I don't know how many attacks can stale and how much will one attack unstale the other attacks. Can someone please explain it in details? Plus, time has nothing to do with unstaling moves, correct?

think of it as a list to 10. whatever move is on that list contributes to stale-ing
you can stale a move 10x at most, but once you use another move, the list moves up for the new move and it is only staled by 9x the next time you use it
also when you respawn the list is refreshed
this is how i understand it but i cant remember how i learnt this so i might be wrong and am kinda posting to be told the proper way it works

 

[infiniteV115]

think of it as a list to 10.

It's a list of 9

I do understand the concept of attacks staling the more you use them and that you need to use other attacks to unstale it. However, I don't know how many attacks can stale and how much will one attack unstale the other attacks. Can someone please explain it in details? Plus, time has nothing to do with unstaling moves, correct?

Basically the game remembers a list of the last 9 moves you used. For every time a given move is in that list, it gets staler.

So let's say you're ZSS and these are the last 9 moves you used. The one on the left being the 9th last one you used (ie least recent in the list), the one on the right being the last move you used (ie most recent in the list)

Uair, uair, bair, dtilt, sideB, dash attack, utilt, uair, sideB

Notice that uair appears 3 times in this list, so it's fairly stale. Sideb is also kinda stale cause it appears twice
Now, you get a nice downsmash combo (dsmash x2 --> fair). This is what the list will look like

Dtilt, sideB, dash attack, utilt, uair, sideB, dsmash, dsmash, fair

Now uair only appears once in the list because two of them got pushed out, as they are no longer in the list of the last 9 moves you used. So your uair is less stale but not completely fresh.
Bair is now completely fresh. SideB, dash attack and utilt are still where they were before cause they were neither refreshed (by being pushed out of the list) nor staled (used again)

Correct, time has nothing to do with staling moves.
Most moves appear in the list once each time you used them. There are some exceptions

ZSS' nair, the shockwave when Pikachu's dair hits the floor, and maybe some other moves...are examples of moves that just never enter this list. So they don't stale but they also don't help refresh your moves.

With multi-hit moves, it depends. If it's a move that always has the same number of hitboxes/hits out (I guess that's the easiest way to put it), then it'll only stale once. eg ZSS' fair always has 2 kicks, so if you use her fair once, it doesn't matter whether you hit with only the first kick, only the second, or both; it'll stale just once cause you used it once. Also if you hit with the first hit and then the 2nd hit, the 2nd hit is not staled by the first hit. Same goes for other multi-hit moves like ZSS' usmash, Pikachu dsmash, Lucas nair...almost anything you can think of.
Other moves, eg ZSS' jab combo, or Snake's ftilt, are different because you can stop in the middle of it (thus changing the number of hitboxes/hits produced), so each hit counts as a move in the list. I'm not sure whether they count has 3/2 occurrences of the same move (ie they stale each other) or if they count as 3/2 individual, unique moves that don't stale each other, but yeah.
There are some exceptions with moves that seem like they fall into the first category but actually fall into the second. These include MK's nado and Lucario's charging aura sphere; each individual hit counts as a move in the list, and so they're really good for refreshing your other moves. I guess the reason for this is that you have control over how many hitboxes/hits the move produces cause you can change/affect the length of the move

That should cover everything. Since you're a ZSS main I'll let you know that ZSS is dumb cause for whatever reason, her sideB stales her neutralB and vice versa. So if you've been using a lot of lasers, sideB will be a lot weaker.
No, I don't know whether they're considered the same move in the list, or if each time you use one of them, BOTH moves appear in the list. In other words, I know that they stale together, but I don't know if they refresh together. Just thought I'd let you know cause I know you play ZSS.

 

[Demna]

Thanks V115, you never fail to explain anything in depth ^^

 

[1PokeMastr]

Nado does not enter the list as multiple moves, Nado enters the list as 1 and only one move.
It only counts for 1, nothing more.

Same thing for Lucario's neutral b charge, it doesn't enter as multiple.

Marth's Dancing Blade enters the individual hits as 1 in the list so 2 full DB's will count as 8 moves.
The db4 down does not count as multiple, it enters as one.

 

[-LzR-]

Nado does not enter the list as multiple moves, Nado enters the list as 1 and only one move.
It only counts for 1, nothing more.

Same thing for Lucario's neutral b charge, it doesn't enter as multiple.

Marth's Dancing Blade enters the individual hits as 1 in the list so 2 full DB's will count as 8 moves.
The db4 down does not count as multiple, it enters as one.

This is important. Many players don't know this.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Seriously ?

I knew this in 2008.

I'm also pretty sure 3 hit jabs only enter as the 1 move.
Not 3 individual.

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah it should be obvious, but you still hear stuff like "use multihit moves to quickly refresh your moves" and such.

 

[Jamwa]

Ness' dtilt confirmed OP vs waddle doos and dees

 

[Demna]

Each pummel enters the stale list, right?