Brawl Computers: Q&A (1 Player Directory Included)

[Gatlin]

Ok, I have one question. Do CPUs learn moves from you. I remember when i first played brawl, the Mario CPU sucked a lot, now since I've come up with new combos with Mario( edge guarding, some combos), it starts using them against me. I can still beat it, but it kind of ticks me off a little. So do CPUs copy the moves you do?

This was discussed earlier in the thread, and it seems that no, they do not learn from you as a CPU is nothing but a programmed device, much like a toaster, or a computer. You can't tell a toaster "Ok, this piece of toast is fantastic, I want you to make it like this every time!" And you can't teach a computer to go to the same websites or open the same programs every time you log in (unless you tell it to in the command prompt ). It has no "real" memory, it only has "programmed" memory.

It only does what it is programmed to do, nothing more. I do believe however, that it rather "adapts" to how you play. When you learn a new technique, and believe you are seeing a CPU performing the (or close to) same technique, it is tempting to say "hey he learned that from me!"

In reality though, the CPU was probably already doing it before, its just you didn't notice seeing as you weren't familiar with what it was doing. Now that you know, you notice, and it seems new, when its not. In conclusion, CPU's don't learn, they don't have a brain to learn, they just do what they do and what they've always done, nothing more.

(tried to make it more clear, I confused myself reading my previous post, lol)

 

[Ghostbone]

Basically it's kinda like this.

If you learn about teching, then start teching a lot,

you'll notice the CPU start teching a lot also.

But only because you just learnt it. They've actually always done this.

It's the same thing with everything else. (Oh CPU Sonic is doing spindash combos! Must have learnt it from me! Well no the CPU's always done that....)

If you really want proof then if you have the time delete your entire save file and you'll find the CPUs to have the exact same playstyle.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

The CPU starts copying edge hogging when you do so. I never see CPU Zelda ever not land sour spot Fairs. They always sweetspot.

 

[FIREL]

The CPU starts copying edge hogging when you do so. I never see CPU Zelda ever not land sour spot Fairs. They always sweetspot.

Depends on your character height... if your tall like Zelda, then you'll all ways get the sweet spot.

So for me, I always get the sour spots XD.

 

[Sephy95]

CPUs arent very good at edge hogging though.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

I envy their perfect shielding of all else.

 

[Sephy95]

They do unhuman things. Perfect shielding being one of those things.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

I'm glad they don't PS attack. Their OOS is nothing.

 

[Sephy95]

Heh yeah. Another almost impossible thing I've seen them do is time an fsmash when you try an upB recovery move. Example being Marth trying to upB on to the ledge and eating an fsmash out of nowhere. O_O

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

The CPU using characters with good recovery or to slow their momentum are usually the tricky ones. XD

 

[Zatchiel]

Another thing that's easy to notice is the CPUs run a finite distance from the ledge whenever they want to bait a ledge recovery option. They go there, wait for a second, then begin to attempt attacking if you just sit there on the ledge.

 

[Sephy95]

What the CPU did with me was fmash me when I upB'd. I wasnt on the ledge when it did so. I was fsmashed during the frames of Marth's dolphin slash. I didnt go past the ledge when I recovered. It was perfect but the CPU somehow timed it just enough before I reached the ledge.

 

[FIREL]

I really hate how most of the time CPUs would be dirrectly under you (literally, theyd "stutter" walk just to be under me), then theyd U-smash or u-tilt, sure air dodging works but its really stupid.

 

[Sephy95]

Just try not to get tossed into the air. Sure its annoying but they're CPUs. Its their thing. XD

 

[Tane]

I still haven't been convinced by arguments against learning. These 2 vids make a pretty good point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfMOVHKyCDc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMcEUsMd9Cw

 

[Dantarion]

Tane.
We decrypted the replay files.
We decrypted the AI files.

AI don't learn.

 

[Dantarion]

Another thing that's easy to notice is the CPUs run a finite distance from the ledge whenever they want to bait a ledge recovery option. They go there, wait for a second, then begin to attempt attacking if you just sit there on the ledge.

I believe they run away when you are invincible.

 

[Life]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_artificial_intelligence
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArtificialBrilliance

Just for general reading.

As for learning AI:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergent_behavior

 

[Tane]

Pikachu CPU QAC, etc.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j***cO-Kzr8

The 3 stars are a capital F a capital C and a lowercase k.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Coincidence. Computers don't learn.

 

[Zankoku]

Okay, I'm surprised there's still a "discussion" of this at all, but whatever.

This is the definitive argument against Brawl's AI being capable of learning:
- Replay files contain nothing but the random seed number for the game, and the player inputs. This means that it's literally the game playing itself over.
- Replay files of AI players have zero inputs. This means that the AI player is controlling itself during the course of the replay.
- Replay files of AI players do not desynch when played on another Wii. This means that the only way for the AI player to play with no replay inputs and not cause a desynch is to react in the exact same faction to the exact same conditions and situations of the given game, regardless of which Wii it's played on or whether or not there's even a save file to draw data from.

 

[Tane]

Yeah, you're right. Sakurai did program Pikachu to QAC.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

He didn't necessarily program to specifically "jump after after touching the ground with a quick attack when in this exact position".

Do you know how AI coding works, Tane?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Basically with Brawl's computers, they're programmed to have a particular "playstyle".

Because computers are lame and have infinite knowledge of the game, they can set up frame traps and combos with ease. Take for instance that Pikachu chaingrab.

CPU does something like this:

>Whiffed move
>Grab
>Pummel
>dthrow
>Is target still in hitstun? True.
>Grab
>Pummel
>Throw
>Attempt tech chase

I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

It's not the CPU learning. <3

 

[link2702]

just out of curiousity though....

i'm sure everyone saw that one vid online a looong time ago where a dark link Teabagged after a kill.


seriously how/why on EARTH would it do that?


I am not about to go through all 15 pages, and i'm not saying the cpus really "do learn" but i'm just curious what happened in that situation.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

If I remember correctly, CPUs tea-bag when they have NOTHING else to do. It's a place-holder action of sorts.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

CPU's teabag me all the time.

Usually they taunt > teabag.