Brawl+ (Competitive Hacks): Codes, Videos, and Discussion (THREAD OUT OF DATE)

[zxeon]

Unseen_killa and I played last night for at least a good 2 hours, I'd say, and we only experienced two desyncs. One, all I remember is I was Sonic, and the second one, we were on MK's airship (Halberd?) and I was Olimar... so I think that with a lot of stage interference and Olimar's pikmin, there had to have been some sort of slip-up with data transferring. We were playing with wavedash 2.1, no-trip, and S-canceling.

So, the codes DO work. It's just sometimes they fail, and we need to find out exactly why.

Edit: I JUST realized that I have been torrenting something for a few days now... that PROBABLY would have something to do with connection errors. >__>

Lol, I noticed that desyncs tended to happen after lag spikes

 

[Makkun]

Lol, I noticed that desyncs tended to happen after lag spikes

Yeah. We should try again soon. Now I've got my torrent programs off. @___@

 

[zxeon]

Yeah. We should try again soon. Now I've got my torrent programs off. @___@

I'm up for it just say when and I'll get on Brawl.

 

[Makkun]

I'm up for it just say when and I'll get on Brawl.

Okay. Probably later tonight. I'm doing a lot of things right now. XD

 

[Cero]

Probably not.

0WN1N (Link) VS. Makkun (Falco) WD Match 4

At 0:41 in the video, the Link was able to footstool the Falco right after an aerial dodge.
That's fcuking awesome!

I think with the community's help, this game will eventually become deeper than Melee.
With almost everything Melee had and more!

 

[Revven]

At 0:41 in the video, the Link was able to footstool the Falco right after an aerial dodge.
That's fcuking awesome!

Yeah, Phantom Wings left that in there as a way to help get you back to the stage if your opponent happens to be below you. It's a pretty cool "AT" for the Air Dodge.

 

[Dre the Ace]

Quick question: Has the code been updated to fix the ROB glitch?

 

[Revven]

Quick question: Has the code been updated to fix the ROB glitch?

Yes, it's the final version all the bugs have been fixed, it's the in the first post.

 

[Dre the Ace]

Yes, it's the final version all the bugs have been fixed, it's the in the first post.

Ok, thank you very much. What happens after he air dodges now? I'd try it myself, but I don't have my Wii here at college.

 

[Revven]

Ok, thank you very much. What happens after he air dodges now? I'd try it myself, but I don't have my Wii here at college.

Everybody has the same thing now. Instead of using the 'fallspecial' command, Phantom Wings made it so it was as though you already used your second jump. You can't do anything at all after the air dodge except footstool someone (which is something he left in intentionally as a way for someone to get back to the stage).

Aside from that, you cannot do anything but DI towards the edge or whatever.

 

[zxeon]

Ok, thank you very much. What happens after he air dodges now? I'd try it myself, but I don't have my Wii here at college.

You go to your regular falling animation but all your actions except footstool jump are disabled 'till you land.

Btw guys with no tripping, S-cancel, and WD2.1 we are up to about 115 lines of code

 

[Blad01]

So we really need a name for this format, with :
- Wavedash
- L-Cancel code (not the SC one, too broken)
- No tripping

So we have the choice between :
- Melee 2.0 (I don't like this one much, it doesn't involve Brawl...)
- Brawl, Melee Format (= BMF, or BMV for Brawl, Melee Version)
- Brawl, Modified Format or Brawl, Modified Version (BMF or BMV, same abbreviations)
- Brawl 1.5
- Advance Brawl (i don't like it neither, it means that brawl is not technical AT ALL :s)
- Mel/awl or Br/elee ? XD


Any other ideas ? ^^

 

[Makkun]

So we really need a name for this format, with :
- Wavedash
- L-Cancel code (not the SC one, too broken)
- No tripping

So we have the choice between :
- Melee 2.0 (I don't like this one much, it doesn't involve Brawl...)
- Brawl, Melee Format (= BMF, or BMV for Brawl, Melee Version)
- Brawl, Modified Format or Brawl, Modified Version (BMF or BMV, same abbreviations)
- Brawl 1.5
- Advance Brawl (i don't like it neither, it means that brawl is not technical AT ALL :s)
- Mel/awl or Br/elee ? XD


Any other ideas ? ^^

In another thread it seems we are deciding on a name. I really like the name Brawl+... and the group is between TerraSky and Brawl+ Ltd. at the moment. Or so it seems.

 

[kupo15]

Well I think there should be two styles. I personally dont like melee air dodging in brawl. It doesnt seem to fit and wavedashing (as good as it was) seems too superficial than melee. (and maybe cause Im a nunchuck user)

I like
no tripping
L canceling (not s canceling)

 

[Makkun]

Well I think there should be two styles. I personally dont like melee air dodging in brawl. It doesnt seem to fit and wavedashing (as good as it was) seems too superficial than melee.

I like
no tripping
L canceling (not s canceling)

I'm sure multiple versions of Brawl+ will be created... If we indeed do get some sort of subforum, it will be easier for users to conjugate and discuss on a universal format.

Edit: Personally I love S-canceling. L-canceling is great too but it needs to be fixed.

 

[kupo15]

I hope so...

 

[zxeon]

You're going about it all wrong. You need more than just vertical speed most characters have crap horizontal speed and that's what's killing their combos. Try running and jumping with Sonic, Fox, or Captain Falcon. These three have a very serious difference between their running speed and jump speed. Do you see it? Now pick up someone like DK, Wolf, Wario, Jigglypuff, or Toon Link. See the difference? We need to actually increase their speed not just the rate of fall.

I hope so...

Does anyone know how to make this happen?

 

[Revven]

Me? I love S-Canceling because it makes the game more offensive based than defensive based.

You can no longer shield grab fastfalled aerials because the opponent can roll away immediately or quickly grab you before you grab them. Your shield can quickly die if you S-Cancel too much, that's when you have to quickly change your method of attacking to using smashes more or tilts leading into grabs. S-Canceling isn't too broken because of Brawl's hitstun and physics. If they were more like SSB64, THEN I would agree that it is broken, but, they aren't. The S-Cancel cancels the balance out to an extent and makes heavies an actual threat while making faster characters have to work harder to win (Sonic and Fox for example, although the S-Cancel helps their approaches, if they face a heavy they have a harder time).

I also like the SSBM Air Dodge because of the cool sliding smashes and jabs you can chain together after a ff'd S-Canceled aerial. It's really cool!

Going to post more videos soon too guys, I have a bunch of good ones to show.

 

[kupo15]

Idk which of the several threads to post this so anyway:
I need to bring this up for those trying to do this because I believe this is correct.

Between shield cancelling and wavedashing, increasing the overall stun considerably may not really be needed if at all or even be a good idea to create some decent combos. The main problem for good comboing that would need to be addressed is the early airdodging and A attacks the game lets you do before the stun actually finishes on tumble hits (I imagine it's after a certain part in the tumbling animation where it lets you do it).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsF_zFKyvkY

In the video you can see the attacks register as 'Consecutive Hits' even though it hits them after they already started and nearly complete an airdodge. Assuming the consecutive hits counter goes off the stun like it did before, this gives you an idea how much stun there probably would be if you couldn't just dodge or do an A attack in the middle of it anyway if it puts you into a tumble.

The few combos that do exist in the game already, like Sheik's f-tilt lock and such, generally involve weaker/stale hits that don't put you into a tumble, and weak hits that don't knock you down don't allow the early dodging and A attacks (again, the interrupt is linked to the tumble animation) so you actually remain fully stunned and unable to do anything for the stun's entire duration like in the previous games.



Increasing the game's comboing ability could actually be as simple as disabling that one thing, and not just increasing overall stun and then trying to balance it as well which could be a lot of work.

More importantly, only increasing hitstun in general would likely just make the existing weak hit combos even better and create more of those dumb "lol-single-move-spam" type weak hit combos than anything else really, and is compounded by the fact that you can only A/SDI weak hits and can't DI them normally to change the direction you get sent like you can on tumble hits.

The bold I believe basically sums up how I think hitstun would work. If you think about it, in brawl, you are allowed to use your special moves after the tumble and depending on your damage and the move, when you can use the special moves is altered to sooner or later.
So as he said, get rid of the thing that allows you to air dodge and use A moves before the specials.

A possible way to do this is find the timer(if there is one) that allows the air dodge and A moves to be performed after getting hit and replace it with the timer code that allows you to use B moves after getting hit.

I feel strongly that this form of hitstun is the simple solution to not break the game. I wish I knew a thing about this to help you guys out.

I actually saw the vid tut in the USB Gecko page and I think you can apply the same thing to this? Use the pause feature and narrow things down....i really have no clue.....:\

1.
Did anyone figure out the float number of l canceling to change it 64 instant lag cancel if you want to play around with it?

 

[Revven]

1.
Did anyone figure out the float number of l canceling to change it 64 instant lag cancel if you want to play around with it?

Because the L-Cancel code is not like No Tripping (where XXXX is where you place the floating point values) this type of idea will not change the amount of frames the L-Cancel gets rid of nor will it change the amount it'll take to start the cancel. You'd need Phantom Wings to make complete changes to the code or have some other experienced Brawl hacker do it. However, since there aren't very many experienced Brawl hackers (actually, Y.S and Phantom Wings are pretty much it) this won't happen if Phantom Wings is not willing to make any changes to the L-Cancel code.

Using any floating points won't change anything. This is also because the L-Cancel code is not a modifier like the tripping code is.

 

[kupo15]

ahh ok thanks. Well, I am learning the new timing so thats fine and whenever the hitstun code gets made (if it does) then the cut-in-half lag feature will fit better. Ive already seen a positive speed enhancement in gameplay and its quite nice!!

 

[Revven]

I'm just curious of one thing about the L-Cancel code.

How useful is it for moves like DK's Bair where they have little lag to begin with? Is it possible to say, double Bair, L-Cancel the second one and then jump again to do another pair of double Bairs? 'Cause that's part of the reason why I like the S-Cancel code. It cancels his second Bair completely and then I can continue on with another two before my opponent can DI away.

How many frames did the L-Cancel in Melee cut off anyway?

Edit: Three new matches from me with S-Canceling AND Wavedashing. Hope you guys like.

0WN1N (CF) VS. ANTZ! (Link) 1
0WN1N (CF) VS. ANTZ! (Link) 2
0WN1N (CF) VS. ANTZ! (Link) 3 (Not processed yet, should be soon though).

 

[kupo15]

I think you can still do that. Melee l canceling cuts the lag time in half.

 

[Fletch]

I think with the community's help, this game will eventually become deeper than Melee.
With almost everything Melee had and more!

That's still a long way off, but these codes definitely interest me.

 

[Wind Owl]

Honestly I doubt that, lol... Every time I get really excited about these codes I just watch any pro Melee vid >___>

 

[Revven]

Here's another video.

0WN1N (PT) VS. ANTZ! (Falco)

 

[Wind Owl]

If anyone wants to make more videos, I REALLY want to see more Ike and DDD, because they're the ones I'm worried about in terms of balance. Ike can just WoP with Fairs (lol), and he now has GREAT mobility, and DDD can now wavedash for MORE CG nonsense, plus his ridiculous aerials have no lag.

EDIT: I also want to see more aerial to grab abuse, to see if it really is broken.
EDIT2: I guess it should be obvious, but dittos with those characters and those two against each other won't really help.

 

[Makkun]

If anyone wants to make more videos, I REALLY want to see more Ike and DDD, because they're the ones I'm worried about in terms of balance. Ike can just WoP with Fairs (lol), and he now has GREAT mobility, and DDD can now wavedash for MORE CG nonsense, plus his ridiculous aerials have no lag.

EDIT: I also want to see more aerial to grab abuse, to see if it really is broken.

I'll be using a lot of DDD and Ike. Hopefully Falco400 will record, if I play with him.

 

[Revven]

If anyone wants to make more videos, I REALLY want to see more Ike and DDD, because they're the ones I'm worried about in terms of balance. Ike can just WoP with Fairs (lol), and he now has GREAT mobility, and DDD can now wavedash for MORE CG nonsense, plus his ridiculous aerials have no lag.

EDIT: I also want to see more aerial to grab abuse, to see if it really is broken.
EDIT2: I guess it should be obvious, but dittos with those characters and those two against each other won't really help.

Antz and I did a bunch of Ike (me being Ike) vs. Link. And, I DO have to say, Ike is crazy ridiculous with his Fair and Dair. I messed up quite a few times on the WD'ing so, I wasn't able to show off much with it, but wow Ike owns with S-Cancel. Although, we were pretty neck and neck even though he was Link. Maybe I wasn't doing enough of something? I dunno, I was definitely abusing the Fair a ton though.

I should get'em up today or tomorrow depending on how fast I'll be uploading.

We also used DDD a little ourselves, his Dair is sweet and Fair is pretty monstrous. I didn't WD much with DDD unfortunately though. IMO, DK is more broken than Ike or DDD because of his Bair spam.

 

[Wind Owl]

Overall though, I think Brawl NEEDS SSB64 offense to balance out its ridiculous defense.

 

[Revven]

Another video.

0WN1N (Mario) VS. ANTZ! (Wario)

<3 WD'ing @ the end.

 

[Wind Owl]

:D Keep 'em coming!

 

[zxeon]

:D Keep 'em coming!

I have some replays from the other night at my friend's house with WD2.1, no tripping, and S-canceling but no way to post them. If someone offers to put them on youtube I could send them via brawl.

 

[Revven]

0WN1N (Samus) VS. ANTZ! (Peach)

Last one for now, going to study now. Will be back in an hour or so.

 

[Zero.K.Noble]

Woah >.> What happened to my air dodging, I can do infinite directional air dodging for some reason.

 

[zxeon]

Woah >.> What happened to my air dodging, I can do infinite directional air dodging for some reason.

With which character?

 

[Zero.K.Noble]

With which character?

With Ike, I'm guessing this is already known or something... XD

 

[Wind Owl]

.... With the code in the first post?!

 

[noni]

OMG it,s ruined WE ARE DOOMED

 

[Zero.K.Noble]

.... With the code in the first post?!

*Guessing that this is directed at me*
Ummm nope, though I doubt that one and the one I have are different...and it's only with Ike. it's kind of odd, because this never happened before when I had the code on.