Someone asked me about my Captain Falcon Matchups guide (
link) regarding this thread so I'm going to post it here since the PM reply character limit is too small. I'm going to be gone for about a week starting tommorrow, so I won't have any opportunity to discuss further for a while and I rarely look in this thread anyways so if you disagree with me I probably won't argue back.
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DanGR said:
I'm collecting data for the character specific board matchup thread and I'm wondering which of the following are considered big disadvantages, advantages, nuetral, and advantageous matchups for the Captain.
3 {Nightmare Matchups}
4 {Painful Matchups}
5 {Difficult Matchups}
6 {Not-So-Bad Matchups}
7 {Even Matchups}
I received the notion that
3&4 = Big disadvantage
5&6 = Disadvantage
7 = Neutral
Is this correct?
thanks for your time.
~DanGR
Sort of. The matchups I have listed are supposed to be from hardest to easiest, but their initial placement was mostly due to the matchup chart at the time of my guide's creation and I havn't updated it recently, so let me describe some changes I'm thinking of making this week, due to recent experience (this is supposed to be a community project, hence the stickied submission thread, but I havn't got much input recently so it's not doing so well atm). First of all, here is the current state of the guide.
3 {Nightmare Matchups}
3.1 Meta Knight
3.2 Pikmin & Olimar
3.3 Pikachu
3.4 Marth
3.5 Mr Game and Watch
3.6 Toon Link
3.7 Wario
4 {Painful Matchups}
4.1 Ice Climbers
4.2 Falco
4.3 Zelda
4.4 Zero Suit Samus
4.5 Ivysaur
4.6 Fox
4.7 Kirby
4.8 Snake
5 {Difficult Matchups}
5.1 ROB
5.2 King DeDeDe
5.3 Pit
5.4 Diddy
5.5 Lucas
5.6 Ness
5.7 Sonic
5.8 Wolf
5.9 Lucario
6 {Not-So-Bad Matchups}
6.1 Bowser
6.2 Donkey Kong
6.3 Charizard
6.4 Luigi
6.5 Ike
6.6 Mario
6.7 Peach
6.8 Sheik
7 {Even Matchups}
7.1 Ganon
7.2 Link
7.3 Samus
7.4 Jigglypuff
7.5 Captain Falcon
7.6 Yoshi
7.7 Squirtle
Please note that all planned changes are based off personal experience and also reflect lack of experience in facing other characters, so I don't necessarily have a full view of things.
1) Fox down to somewhere around 5.5; Fox doesn't compare to Falco in difficulty, since he doesn't have the ridiculous chaingrab to spike problem and his lasers are a lot less threatening since they don't interrupt moves. He doesn't have anything too troublesome except DAir which seems to combo to USmash and DSmash (I don't know for sure since I'm not a Fox player) and shine gimps, which he can't do too well against Falcon though because our up-B is a grab.
2) Zelda down to about 4.8; She seemed really hard for a while because her smashes wreck Falcon's approaches, but the more I play her the more I notice how slow she is. She's pretty easy to bait, and if you don't do anything too stupid like low damage Falcon Kicks to set her up for FAir/BAir, she's not as hard as the characters that can combo you better.
3) Wolf up to around 5.4; I used to laugh at Wolf's slow laser, but it allows him to finish the animation with the projectile closer to him than the other spacies, which allows him to follow up with FSmash. The range of his FSmash makes it hard to approach from the ground, and his DSmash crouches him low so that it's hard to time an aerial approach.
4) Sheik up to around 5.4; Sheik's FTilt combo does a lot of damage, she moves pretty fast making her sliding USmash really good, and she can destroy approaches and Falcon's limited/obvious recovery with her up-B, which happens to be a kill move. Her mobility also makes her good at baiting and avoiding moves, which she can punish with her needles very well. She, like the captain, can have trouble killing, but if she just lets you approach she'll kill you with that up-B easily. Also, if you hit her up high she can change into Zelda in midair, and unless you know the exact timing it's unpunishable because you'd have to jump in advance to hit her.
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That's it for now. For characters placed but without any decent experience, I have Jigglypuff at 7.4 since I played a few laggy games with one and thought it was pretty easy due to superior range; the only problem I had was with the rolly side-B, which I hadn't thought to try to stop with jabs (Sonic's spin stuff can be stopped with jabs). Ivysaur, Charizard, and Squirtle I have also not had much experience with, and are placed mostly based on other peoples' experience; Ivysaur is like Olimar but missing the ridiculous unfairness of the Pikmin, Charizard's Rock Smash and Fire Breath can do a bunch of damage but he's not too fast, and Squirtle is our most controversial matchup right now, as some people think his shell stuff is really hard and the throw that kills (DThrow I think) makes him quite difficult, along with his fast air game and his short height (Falcon's aerials are not built to hit short opponents). However, other people think he's the easiest of the 3 due to his not-so-great range and light weight, which makes him pretty easy to beat and kill offstage if you can stay spaced, especially with UAir. Yoshi I don't have much experience with; all I know is that none of his moves are too useful against Falcon except his aerials, and his recovery is pretty limited.
So for them you should probably check with those characters' forums to see what they think.
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To better answer your question:
Big Disadvantage should should be Nightmare Matchups, Ice Climbers, since they can kill you in 1-2 grab combos, their frost breath beats any approach except from straight above them (so they can use it on any approach unless you're coming down from the top), and their side-B recovery isn't so easy to punish, and Falco, since his chaingrab to spike, SHDL, and BAir (which is a sex kick that outprioritizes Falcon's recovery and everything else).
Everything else should be regular Disadvantage except for section 7, which should be neutral.
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It has been suggested that Ike be neutral, but I was not given evidence for it so I'm leaving him alone. In my opinion, Ike is fine where he is due to his UAir being very hard to avoid due to its long hitbox (in duration, which rules out airdodging if he does it so that he'll fall with you) and it beating aerial Falcon Kick. His fire sword move can be very annoying because of its really tall hitbox, and if you screw up or trip into an FSmash you're taking a hit stronger than the Knee of Justice (with a huge hitbox). His NAir and FAir have really good hitboxes that make him tough to beat in the air, and his BAir comes out way fast. In general, he's really slow, so although all of this sounds bad you can avoid most of it, making him not so hard but certainly harder than, say, Ganon or Link.
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For characters whose difficulties are different from what is shown in the matchup chart, here are their reasonings.
Charizard Disadvantage instead of Neutral
Although the Rock Smash is reasonably avoidable, Falcon has no decent response to Fire Breath, or to Charizard's good shield-grab range. He's definately harder than Mario, who has poor range except his weaksauce fireballs and his FSmash and his only other potentially useful move is his cape, which can gimp Falcon's recovery fairly well, and everyone I have listed as Neutral pretty much due to their slowness or range issues.
Ganon Neutral instead of Advantage
Ganon's side-B with mindgame followup can be very difficult, his air game is pretty much Captain Falcon's but stronger (his FAir has better range although being slower to come out and not as good of a kill move, and his thunder storming can destroy Falcon's ground approaches). His jab will knock you away, which hurt's Falcon's jab game (Falcon has great jabs), and pretty much every move he's got can kill. Some Ganons might think Falcon is tough because they are overwhelmed by Falcon's speed, but a calm Ganon won't be comboed/juggled as well as is seen in videos.
Ice Climbers Big Disadvantage instead of Disadvantage
Quick re-cap, Frost Breath stopping almost any approach, side-b often difficult to punish, and chaingrabs for massive damage/grab to smash/grab to spike make winning pretty much based entirely on how often you get grabbed. The only good thing is that if you realize that, you know that they are planning one way or another to grab you, and you can try to bait missed grabs, although they can be hard to punish (if you don't punish fast enough they'll shield grab you).
Jigglypuff Neutral instead of Disadvantage
As I've mentioned already, I havn't had much experience with Jiggs, but as far as I know Jiggs can't handle Falcon's range very well, and her slow recovery makes her a good candidate for Falcon's good offstage game. Jiggs is also tremendously light. The only thing that I'd say holds her back from being Falcon-advantage would be that she's really short, which makes her hard to hit with aerials.
Kirby Disadvantage instead of Big Disadvantage
Not sure who decided that Falcon is a super easy matchup for Kirby.... Kirby's tough moves are up-B, against which Falcon will have a hard time punishing since even if you are in position to punish Kirby can DI towards you to hit you or away to avoid a hit. Neutral B can be tough if Kirby spits you out under the stage, since Falcon's recovery will fail if Kirby edgehogs, but it is usually avoidable and is a non-issue on several stages. The hammer can be a pain (aerial version) if you forget about it, but is otherwise way too slow. Down-B isn't a good move against Falcon, as Falcon's up-B, which does pretty nice damage, can grab it. FSmash can be a good killer, but it won't land often unless Falcon decides to do a lot of laggy moves. BAirs are not so bad due to their poor range and the leanback on Falcon's FSmash. Kirby certainly is difficult, but he doesn't have anything that really screams WIN!
Link Neutral instead of Disadvantage
Link is slow. And by slow I mean half his moves can be punished with Falcon Punch. Link is pretty much as much of a bait and punish character as Ike, except he doesn't have as much range (discounting his not-very-quick projectiles) or knockback. Link's a great candidate for UAir juggles, and if he gets frustrated and DAirs the landing lag is ridiculous. His USmash, DAair, UAir and grab are all great moves to punish, and his arrows/boomerang don't have very good priority. Oh and his recovery is pretty weak.
Samus Neutral instead of Disadvantage
I don't have a lot to say about Samus. Samus's missiles are really slow, and her charged shot is usually expected and avoidable. After getting past the ZAirs, Samus pretty much gets pwnd by jabs and juggles. Her fire moves can't be beat, but it isn't too hard to work around them.
Sheik Disadvantage instead of Neutral
I think I've said enough about Sheik earlier in explaining a planned move in my guide, so I'm going to move on.
Snake Disadvantage instead of Big Disadvantage
Snake has pretty much 4 good moves. FTilt, UTilt, USmash, AAA. As for the rest, side-B is too slow for Falcon, grenades are avoidable if you know Snake's strategies with them and their timers, proximity mine and remote mine are really obvious and can be used against him, and FSmash is way too slow unless you do something stupid (it's pretty much a Falcon Punch without the benefits of being able to do it in the air and reverse it). For his good moves, his USmash does make getting back down to the stage chaotic sometimes, but it's not impossible to avoid. UTilt has a silly hitbox and happens to kill pretty well, but since he only has a few good moves it's not too hard to see it coming (if he doesn't do FTilt instead). FTilt is pretty much Snake's win button vs Falcon due to range and priority, but it's still shieldable. AAA is pretty much Snake's panic response to Falcon's jabs and stuff, and knocks Falcon away pretty well. In the air though, Snake pretty much gets owned by Falcon, as his moves are all horrible in landing lag or startup lag, making his best option an airdodge, which Falcon should be able to predict a good portion of the time. Additionally, Snake's recovery is pretty much easy kill unless they can airdodge off to the ledge/stage, and if they can't it's pretty much easy Falcon Punch or Knee, and if they can you can move towards them and make them airdodge off, then punish at the end of the airdodge.
Squirtle Neutral instead of Advantage
I think the reasons I've listed earlier for why some Falcons consider Squirtle the most difficult of the three to be enough to leave him as Neutral.
" Ill edit with the exact quote.
