Brawl Character Match-Up chart

[SlashTalon]

Slash Talon's sig is classic lmao
Why DK>MK and Snake?

Thanks =)

DK outranges them both with smash and tilts. MK is light DK is heavy, for every like 3 hits =one DK hit. Good pressure and spacing on snake makes it hard for snake to maneuver. Dk has three spikes and an amazing horizontal recovery. As long as DK is not being overwhelmed by projectiles and tiny swords he has the advantage in the match

 

[Smashbros_7]

Ness is WAY better against Lucas, than Lucas is. You guys are smoking pot.

Ness or Lucas vs

Ness.
Using: Ness
DANG! These psychic kids are EVIL. You can't hope to win against them, because they're just that good. Anyway, I recommend using Ness against himself. Make great use of your aerials--hopefully, better use than your opponent. Use Ness's unusual movement style to approach in the air and immediately withdraw. Hopefully, this will confuse your opponent and bait him into making a mistake. Obviously, make use of PSI Magnet to absorb projectiles. Avoid ledge guarding with PK Thunder, and avoid PK Flash altogether--once started, you have to detonate it, and the damage it restores will be devastating if your opponent steals it. And, I'm sure most of you are already aware of this, but Ness's recovery can be fouled up with relative ease. You can try jumping into the thunder before it hits him, canceling the thunder with your own, or simply countering with a well-timed bat. Just be sure you don't get yourself hit with PKT2. That's bad news when it doesn't come from you.

Ness or Lucas vs

Lucas
using: Lucas

I think Ness has an advantage over Lucas when the two are pitted against each other. He outdoes Lucas's aerial moves, and when played carefully shouldn't be bothered by Lucas's tilt attacks. Lucas's options will be limited, since much of the range he needs to beat Ness is in his projectiles, which can be absorbed. Be very careful of Lucas's smash attacks, as landing just a couple of those can even up the match in a hurry. Hanging on ledges will prevent Lucas from tether recovering. When he tries to recover with PKT2, try to intercept the thunder with your own, faster version, or block the attack and capitalize. Be prepared to take advantage of his lag after PK Thunder or smash attacks. Just ... don't hurt him too much, please.

 

[Smashbros_7]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=171897

More info on Ness vs Lucas.

 

[Blad01]

Capt. Falcon has a disadvantage against Ike ? Is that a Joke ?

Prove me that Capt. Falcon vs. Ike is not even please... (Or not in Falcon's favor...)

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I actually agree with you! it's similiar to Pikachu v Zelda. Zelda just tears up his approaches with range and air defense.



Don't quote yourself for emphasis on a point you made that's on the SAME PAGE as this earlier post.
.

Granted, squirlte has a great air game and is hard to LK... but his range in the air or on the ground is just so horrid that he really can't do much to zelda.

he HAS to put himself in the range of oe of zelda's aerials before he has a chance of being able to hit her in the air, and other than getting Zelda to whiff, he doesn't really have much of a chance of getting inside of her

add that to the fact that he can't gimp her recovery, he has a hard time killing her and she has an easy time killing him and I really think the advantage should shift the other way really. Honestly, squirtle gives me less problems than any other poke., though none are bad. <_<



as for the quoting for emphasis, it was because I added that second part in an edit and wasn't sure anyone saw it.

Anyway, it basically said that I played against pyro's fox yesterday, he knew how he was supposed to get out of shiek's ftilt death and still couldn't get out. DIing towards shiek made him slowly creep toward her. Shiek can easily stop to smash before he can break.

on the downside, I couldn't really get the Ftilt to lock except at damages from 20-100

I messed up the smash a few times, but if I did it at the first possible frame, he couldn't escape.

 

[pKNeM]

Nice job on the chart, too bad I was an idiot who read it backwards initially lol

 

[DMG]

Although this chart has obviously taken a lot of dedication and effort and I appreciate that greatly, it seems to be faulty. For instance, it suggests that ganondorf is no less than on equal footing with the entire cast, and superior to the vast majority of them. However, he is one of the lowest ranked characters by tournament placement.

Although I realize that tournament showing on this point is not extensive enough to make conclusions on all but the most obvious characters (MK & Snake mostly) this chart would suggest ganondorf is broken to the extent that he would be mained by a good third of the players out there as MK and Snake currently are and would be fairing far better than he is. While a valiant effort, the chart at this stage seems far to off-base to be of much use.

I think you are misreading the chart; Ganondorf goes either even or does BAD against the other characters. The characters are on the left and the matchups go to the right, with the opponents at the top. The chart has some matchup issues but for the most part it has gotten off to a great start.

 

[zamz]

Although this chart has obviously taken a lot of dedication and effort and I appreciate that greatly, it seems to be faulty. For instance, it suggests that ganondorf is no less than on equal footing with the entire cast, and superior to the vast majority of them. However, he is one of the lowest ranked characters by tournament placement.

Although I realize that tournament showing on this point is not extensive enough to make conclusions on all but the most obvious characters (MK & Snake mostly) this chart would suggest ganondorf is broken to the extent that he would be mained by a good third of the players out there as MK and Snake currently are and would be fairing far better than he is. While a valiant effort, the chart at this stage seems far to off-base to be of much use.

When looking at the chart, the character on the Left is your character. The character on the top is the opponent.

This chart shows how your character compares to your opponent. If there is a big, bloody "X", it means that your character fails against your opponent. You'll see Ganondorf has one of the most X's out of any other characters in the game. That's why he's rated so poorly. You'll also see MK has the most checks in the game, that's why he's mained so much.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I am awaiting a change for Sonic vs Samus.
Sonic vs Pit
Sonic vs Ike


What is everyone's opinion on Sonic vs Olimar?
I would like to hear some Olimar mains since I've rarely fought Olimars.

 

[DanGR]

Olimar>>>>>Sonic. horrific approach game v sensational defense. That's what it comes down to.

 

[VEC]

I dont think Luigi should have a HUGE advantage on Sonic, advantage yes but not HUGE, GaW, and MK should have a HUGE advantage on Luigi though. Also Luigi= with Wario

 

[ShadowLink84]

Olimar>>>>>Sonic. horrific approach game v sensational defense. That's what it comes down to.

Horrific approach?
What are you smoking Dan and can I have some?

 

[Tenki]

Olimar>>>>>Sonic. horrific approach game v sensational defense. That's what it comes down to.

But then off stage, everything changes :x

In pure offensive head to head against a grabby Olimar, Oli should have the advantage between the two.

Sonic has some weird situational tricks that can tip it toward his favor though, like spawn springing (=too funny when it works), and alot of his moves juggle Olimar/kill pikmin. I did that about 2 stocks in a row and it totally wrecked my brother's game, but things started tipping horribly toward his favor when he got the hang of avoiding it xD

@.@; I'll wait (hopefully) for a more experienced player in this matchup to respond to this one.

 

[Negi-Kun]

Glad it's done. Great work man it must have taken forever!

 

[ShadowLink84]

I just want to know how Sonic has a horrific approach.

Not to mention that many of Sonic's attacks remove Pikmin so he isn't going to stop to use an attack to remove them.
Defensive play works best, staying outside his range until olimar makes an error, Sonic is very good at punishing errors.

 

[pKNeM]

Yep I'm an idiot >.< completely misread it

Thanks for the clarification

 

[DanGR]

Horrific approach?
What are you smoking Dan and can I have some?

weed, I'm shouldn't sell it online though. The cops are after me.

But seriously, I didn't mean horrific. It's alright. I meant horrific against olimar in particular. He has just about nothing going with him in this one. Name an approach-SHbair? so what. If you mess up, shieldgrab, if you manage to get out of grab range, you try again and again and again. He can't grab olimar if he's smart, his grab range is much longer. SH-airdodge-anything doesn't work against olimar with any character. How about the two spin dashes?-nothing olimar can't shield or grab right? I'm not trying to make a scene, I'm just giving the facts. I just have to assume grab position until you pivot. If you pivot, I shield when you bair. That's it. I'm probablyjust biased about this one, so just don't listen to me. I'm also in a bad mood so I shouldn't even be posting right now...

 

[Browny]

If olimar plays normally, sonic does ok. probably not an advantage but its still winnable.

if olimar sits in the corner and c-stick spams for 5 minutes straight, he has an impossible advantage.

 

[ShadowLink84]

weed, I'm shouldn't sell it online though. The cops are after me.

But seriously, I didn't mean horrific. It's alright. I meant horrific against olimar in particular. He has just about nothing going with him in this one. Name an approach-SHbair? so what. If you mess up, shieldgrab, if you manage to get out of grab range, you try again and again and again. He can't grab olimar if he's smart, his grab range is much longer. SH-airdodge-anything doesn't work against olimar with any character. How about the two spin dashes?-nothing olimar can't shield or grab right? I'm not trying to make a scene, I'm just giving the facts. I just have to assume grab position until you pivot. If you pivot, I shield when you bair. That's it. I'm probablyjust biased about this one, so just don't listen to me. I'm also in a bad mood so I shouldn't even be posting right now...

Ahh okay. I misunderstood earlier I thought you meant Sonic as a bad approaching character.
Sorry should have known better.


SH Bair is never used a method o approach. Too slow and obvious and can easily be punished.
SH Nair and Fair are the safest since Sonic can immediately jump after using the move. However since olimar's grab stays out there for some time it can still be punished though nowhere as easily as a Bair or Dair thats been SH'ed

Spindashing isn't used as a direct mode of approaching or attacking. A sonic certainly won't stay on the ground long enough for it to grab, I certainly wouldn't.

I Would use the spindash/charge to spinshot/SJC, find a way of forcing Olimar to take action and then punishing.
The problem is that Olimar's attacks are not only high priority but they cover a good amount of area. when used.
It is similar to fighting MK except MK is more aerial.

Sonc would have to remain out of range of Olimar, using spindashes and other moves to get close when necessary.
The primary aim for Sonic is not to rack up damage or KO. It is meant to get Olimar off the stage. With his light weight this shouldn't be a great issue. The problem comes as to placing Olimar in a situation where Sonic can get Olimar off the stage.

once Olimar is off the stage, Olimar can very easily die at low percents from Sonic's assault.
This is where Sonic's throwing game really has to be used effectively.
ASC to shield grab can work well since Sonic can quickly spindash away from Olimar or make a grab.

If Sonic manages to get a grab, the best ones are his Uthrow and his D throw.
D throw near the edge since it sends Olimar down for an easy edge guard, U throw for getting Olimar above sonic where Sonic's Uair can outrange Olimar's aerials.

Of course its going to be very difficult for Sonic to fight Olimar since Olimar's ground game is just ****. Juggling Olimar is more easily one and once Sonic gets Olimar off the edge, Olimar is really going to be in trouble.

Sonic will be at a disadvantage, but nowhere near as bad if he were to face Luigi.

 

[Yoshara]

I recently tested this and found out that the supposed Shiek ftilt infinite on Fox, Falco and Wolf is untrue seeing as all the person being ftilt'd needs to do is hold the shield button while being hit.

 

[DanGR]

@ShadowLink84-good analysis, I agree totally. *claps*

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

If olimar plays normally, sonic does ok. probably not an advantage but its still winnable.

if olimar sits in the corner and c-stick spams for 5 minutes straight, he has an impossible advantage.

then he's just that close to the edge. if sonic can get olimar off of the edge, it's hopeless at ANY damage.

Really this matchup is pretty even.

Sonic is the best pikmin killer in the game.

I think a sonic super stutter stepped smash (SSSSS?) will outrange olimar's Fsmash with most pikmni, and I'm SURE it will outrange a purple ... but I'm not so sure about the others.

Anyway, Sonic has a hell of a time getting iside olimar, but if he does, he can keep olimar in his clutches pretty easily. I think this matchup is all about momentum and can easily go either way.

 

[DanGR]

It's the part about getting him off the edge that's difficult to do.

 

[ShadowLink84]

@ShadowLink84-good analysis, I agree totally. *claps*

YAY!

I wasn't too sure since I am not too good with Olimar and I've not played many of them.
I think once Sonic can get past Olimar's defenses he can kill Olimar but its so difficult to do.
At least pikmin toss is not as great a threat as it is for some characters since Sonic kills those pikmin easily.

Just gotta get psat the grabs, smashes and tons of other ground abilities Olimar has T_T.

Hmmm maybe a spring cancelled Dair?
Wuld that work?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

It's the part about getting him off the edge that's difficult to do.

still, the fact that he's pretty much a free kill once off the edge makes it worth it. Sonic really makes pikmin toss almost completely worthes since most of his forms of approach not only go through but also Kill pikmin. And most of his attacks kill pikmin too, not just shake them off.

He hates Olimar's priority, but other than that, Sonic counters olimar's gamplay. I think if we had a vid of a good enough sonic, it could make for a match that would really surprise you...

..in my experience, once sonic has the momentum, Olimar's life is his to take. He;ll have to gain that momentum again on the next life, which kinda sucks, but still, it's not a one sided match in any respect.

 

[Sychu]

Nice list, however Kirby is very effective against ike, whenever i run into an ike over wifi i charge at them before anyone else because there attacks are too slow to hit kirby, i even have a better time handling an ike than i do a yoshi, wich by the way i ran into a very good yoshi player about a day or 2 ago over wi-fi; very rare and random, but that was the only yoshi player that i've had trouble with.

 

[Tenki]

..in my experience, once sonic has the momentum, Olimar's life is his to take. He;ll have to gain that momentum again on the next life, which kinda sucks, but still, it's not a one sided match in any respect.

Or he can start with high momentum right away if he can predict where the Olimar's going to land and put a spring there.. lol

 

[ShadowLink84]

XD I have to startdoing that Tenki.
*places a spring below snake's spawning point.

PWNT

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

anyone have an objection to the argument that zelda>squirtle? if not might i suggest we change it on the chart. and if anyone disagrees i am sure a good discussion by one or more of the pro zelda in this fight people will disccus it till we have a answer to who beets whom

 

[popsofctown]

I haven't seen any pro Zeldas posting in this thread. Are you going to go ask some to come?

I certainly have no objections to zelda >squirtle, because i've not played a squirtle my whole life

 

[SlashTalon]

I'm guessing Zelda>squirtle because she ***** aerial approaches...?

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I haven't seen any pro Zeldas posting in this thread. Are you going to go ask some to come?

I certainly have no objections to zelda >squirtle, because i've not played a squirtle my whole life

how do you define pro? i go to tournaments in my area and do pretty well and the best long island smashers i have seen say i am pretty good. plus i am friends with some up and comers in to midwest who say i am a very good zelda. i am pretty sure i am around pro lvl and i might also like to add zelda is underplayed and there are not many known zelda pros to go around

(i dont mean to sound egotistical or mean just wondering what you mean by pro exactly)

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'm not pro, but I'm no scrub either. If you guys know about where the skill of Omnigamer or Pyrogamer lie, then that's about where I am.

And, my honest opinion: Zelda > Squirtle

 

[DMG]

Also Luigi= with Wario

I'm a bit surprised here. Most Wario players are afraid of decent Luigi players. I really think Luigi has the advantage in that one but if you say they go even then that's cool.

 

[fissionprime]

i have to say that you need to change ddd=ice climbers to ddd<ice climbers or even ddd<<ice climbers because ddds chaingrab is ineffective plus the climbers are small so it is easy to miss them with attacks, since ddd's moves are so laggy the climbers can dodge them and punish the ddd player quite easily.

 

[YagamiLight]

I'd probably change Wolf versus Pit from a negative to Wolf to in fact a positive. Wolf shuts down Pit's arrow spam, and is better at close combat that Pit is. In fact, many Pit players I know hate fighting any Wolf. And as for Wolf versus Zelda, the reflector prevents Din's Fire spam, giving Wolf a safe approach. I'd call it neutral. Anyone have opinions on this?

 

[DanGR]

There's a reason pit>wolf on the chart already. I'm not sure why though. I'd say pit>zelda even though she has nayru's love. There's several ways to aim the arrow to get it to go off in another direction other than back to pit.(ex being aim at her feet. They'll go into the ground) It's easy to fake her out with the arrows, but Wolf can constantly hold his reflector. Pit though, can aim the arrow away from wolf if he pulls it out.

 

[Kasai]

On the DK vs Kirby matchup, I think that it's in favor of Kirby.

DK's size and weight allow him to be easily combo'd by Kirby. His horrible vertical recovery also makes for very easy gimping and basically means that a single dair kills because he just can't raise in vertical distance. DK does have range on kirby but kirby's speed allows him to control the fight quite well.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

There's a reason pit>wolf on the chart already. I'm not sure why though. I'd say pit>zelda even though she has nayru's love. There's several ways to aim the arrow to get it to go off in another direction other than back to pit.(ex being aim at her feet. They'll go into the ground) It's easy to fake her out with the arrows, but Wolf can constantly hold his reflector. Pit though, can aim the arrow away from wolf if he pulls it out.

Pit verses Zelda I'd say is close to equal, but it rarely plays out that way:
the matchup seems very momentum based and can yield big wins on either side... I'm not sure why

 

[Browny]

does mirror shield on the edge gimp zeldas recovery like it does the space animals? if so, that gotta be worth a lot. if zelda overshoot the ledge it its a free smash attack