Brawl Character Match-Up chart

[Baconater]

King DeDeDe gets a huge advantage over bowser because of his ability to infinite chain throw him

 

[OrionX1989]

Ike is pretty easy to edgeguard, and in the air Sonic outspeeds Ike every time (except his bair). Since none of Ike's aerials have super armor, Sonic can just play a reactionary game and interupt most of Ike's attacks. One the ground Ike has a much easier time due to his quick Jab, d-smash, and f-tilt. There's also a very easy way to stop the quickdraw approach. Just short hop an airdodge moving foward, causing Ike to do the slash but not hit you. Of course this will only work if he ended up pretty close to start with, but that's pretty much what the quick draw is for anyway.

I'd think the better the Sonic player gets at controlling his speed, the harder it will become for Ike to hit Sonic.

I agree but i also kind of disagree. I agree that the more comtrolled the Sonic is, the harder time it gives Ike. but the 3 Sonic mainers i've played, i almost always win because Ike has a big range advantage over Sonic. and unless Sonic gets close, he can't do squat. It might just be me, but Ike's N-air always seems to prevent an approach because it has a good half circle cover. Also it is really easy to negate any of Sonic's spin attacks with either Quick Draw or just F-tilt. As long as Ike is on the ground, Sonic really has to work to get close.

 

[Ganny]

I think this is just a hidden brother of the tier list rearing its head up. You can't judge who is better than what now since it is too soon. Techs are being discovered, it's too unstable to judge who has the advantage over what

 

[Dark Sonic]

I agree but i also kind of disagree. I agree that the more comtrolled the Sonic is, the harder time it gives Ike. but the 3 Sonic mainers i've played, i almost always win because Ike has a big range advantage over Sonic. and unless Sonic gets close, he can't do squat. It might just be me, but Ike's N-air always seems to prevent an approach because it has a good half circle cover. Also it is really easy to negate any of Sonic's spin attacks with either Quick Draw or just F-tilt. As long as Ike is on the ground, Sonic really has to work to get close.

Perhaps. I've never personally had trouble with Ike's nair, and his quickdraw just doesn't come out fast enough to catch me by suprize. I play both of them, so I kind of already know what to look for (beware of F-tilt if your approaching with a spindash, ect.) I suppose I should look into this more because of some of the points you and Emblem Lord brought up.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Well I think we can agree that Jigglypuff> Bowser. Jigglypuff> Donkey Kong. Spacing of pound combined with the obvious potential of rest makes jigglypuff very hard for either bowser or donkey kong to deal with. Plus WOP is very very easy against these characters who don't have very good recoveries to begin with.

Too bad that rest won't even kill them at 100% on some stages. You can still wop them though.

 

[DwaynBibad]

Well I think we can agree that Jigglypuff> Bowser. Jigglypuff> Donkey Kong. Spacing of pound combined with the obvious potential of rest makes jigglypuff very hard for either bowser or donkey kong to deal with. Plus WOP is very very easy against these characters who don't have very good recoveries to begin with.

I think that's the problem, people group Bowser and Donkey Kong together as these big slow hitters. But these two play nothing like each other and do not share the same weaknesses.

Pound and Rest are two problematic attacks, but they give pretty much everyone trouble and it's not Bowser specific weakness. I'm sure a good Jigglypuff has no problems KOing a good Bowser, but the opposite is true as well. Unlike Donkey Kong, Bowser has a Flamethrower attack that has really good range compared to Jigglypuff's moves, and can beat out most of Jiggly's attacks. And not just one or two, but pretty much every attack Bowser has has much better range than Jigglypuff's and can KO her at low percentages. Imo it's not Jigglypuff > Bowser, it's really whoever can land the first KO. That said, if Bowser lands the first KO, he can also pressure her with Bowsercide for the rest of the match, and if he lands it, then it's pretty much over.


But once again I have to urge other Bowser players to add their opinions to this thread, as mines probably won't hold up well if at all due to newness.


Please correct me, but I was told that DeDeDe's chain throw only infinited against the wall. I was also hearing in the forums that a lot of the stages where DeDeDe could death chain throw weren't going to be allowed in major tournaments. If this is true then I would like to say that DeDeDe vs Bowser is pretty even match. Both their attacks are slow and punishable, and I find that Bowser and DeDeDe KO each other around the same percentages as well. The biggest problem with DeDeDe is that his hit boxes are really deceptive, almost like he's not as big as he seems to be. Also the Waddle Dees will be killer, but a good Bowser can flamethrower right through them and grind DeDeDe with it. DeDeDe's weird hit boxes doesn't stop him from being Bowsercided either.

 

[Mario_ 101]

Sorry to burst that bubble... but 9 CPU Mario used the FLUDD to edgeguard religiously.

Well one time i fought it, it just used it when we were far apart on Final Destination. Didn't even use it to edgeguard. But then again, it was one of the few times I fought it.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Please correct me, but I was told that DeDeDe's chain throw only infinited against the wall. I was also hearing in the forums that a lot of the stages where DeDeDe could death chain throw weren't going to be allowed in major tournaments. If this is true then I would like to say that DeDeDe vs Bowser is pretty even match. Both their attacks are slow and punishable, and I find that Bowser and DeDeDe KO each other around the same percentages as well. The biggest problem with DeDeDe is that his hit boxes are really deceptive, almost like he's not as big as he seems to be. Also the Waddle Dees will be killer, but a good Bowser can flamethrower right through them and grind DeDeDe with it. DeDeDe's weird hit boxes doesn't stop him from being Bowsercided either.

I believe he can also chainthrow Bowser, DK, Luigi, and Samus without moving from his spot, making that an infinite.

 

[DwaynBibad]

I believe he can also chainthrow Bowser, DK, Luigi, and Samus without moving from his spot, making that an infinite.

Oh well, Add DeDeDe to the list then ;_;.

Is this anything like Wario's chainthrow? Because he was downthrowing me in a match for some time without moving. I thought I was gonna die until I remembered that throws cannot go through dodge invincibility, so at like 58% I timed my dodge on wake up (I had to do it twice) to get him to stop throwing me.

 

[DarkLouis331]

As a Wolf mainer...I had alot of trouble fighting Squirtle in a tournament today. Squirtle beats Wolf in aerials...Idk, whenever my opponent switched to Charizard or Ivysaur, I had a much easier time.

Also...it is hard for Falco to chaingrab Squirtle as well.

 

[OrionX1989]

Perhaps. I've never personally had trouble with Ike's nair, and his quickdraw just doesn't come out fast enough to catch me by suprize. I play both of them, so I kind of already know what to look for (beware of F-tilt if your approaching with a spindash, ect.) I suppose I should look into this more because of some of the points you and Emblem Lord brought up.

Ahh.. see your point now. it is a lot easier to fight Ike if you use him. i'm the same way when i use Fox against Ike. my Sonic friends haven't even touched Ike so they don't really know the finer points of Ike's attacks. well, then in your case, an exception has occured.

 

[OrionX1989]

oh... and pertaining to the chart, you need to change the lucas vs. fox spot. lucas ***** fox because he has a good range advantage and is easily gimped by PK Thunder. its impossible to edgeguard almost if the lucas player knows how to do the PK Fire jump glitch. fox can't laser spam cause lucas will heal really quickly.

 

[fallenangemon0]

This is a great Idea but everyone is just going to defend their mains and the list will be jam packed with disputed marks. =(

you should collect more solid data after the game has been out for at least another 2 months and more tactics, and clear disadvantages have been discovered

ex: Jiggs > Wolf: because wolf can be easily juggled and his recoveries are easily intercepted by sweetspoted Fair...


That claim may hold true for ME, but only because I dont have any problems beating wolfs with Jiggs.


you should just add me on YIM or AOL so i can help test and collect non-biased data.

 

[OrionX1989]

This is a great Idea but everyone is just going to defend their mains and the list will be jam packed with disputed marks. =(

you should collect more solid data after the game has been out for at least another 2 months and more tactics, and clear disadvantages have been discovered

ex: Jiggs > Wolf: because wolf can be easily juggled and his recoveries are easily intercepted by sweetspoted Fair...


That claim may hold true for ME, but only because I dont have any problems beating wolfs with Jiggs.


you should just add me on YIM or AOL so i can help test and collect non-biased data.

i don't think this is entirely true. i have only played lucas twice and i was awful but i know that just an intermediate lucas player slaughters fox and i have mained fox since the N64 smash. i'll defend him to all ends of the earth. but this is inevitable. lucas just plain pwns fox. now you are right in some sense but exceptions are bound to happen.

 

[Chaosblade77]

You don't have it marked, and I know a few other people agree with me on this, but Mario > Ike.

Mario has a speed advantage over Ike, albeit not a huge one like Fox and others, but it's there. On top of that, his fireball stops most of Ike's "safe approaches."

This is a great Idea but everyone is just going to defend their mains and the list will be jam packed with disputed marks. =(

While some people are going to defend their mains until the end, others will actually bring up their mains weaknesses in this topic. I know I have mentioned a couple of Ike's in my two posts.

 

[thesage]

Well I have no Idea where your getting Ness' matchups from >.>

Plus it's just way too early to be doing this. Wait a year or so... Even the melee one was never completed.

 

[IvanEva]

I think that's the problem, people group Bowser and Donkey Kong together as these big slow hitters. But these two play nothing like each other and do not share the same weaknesses.



But once again I have to urge other Bowser players to add their opinions to this thread, as mines probably won't hold up well if at all due to newness.

They so too share the same weakness: nobody likes them!

But yes, you're completely right in saying that we need mains for the less popular characters to speak of their match-ups.

As for the comment that people will just be glorifying their mains, that's not necessarily a bad thing. If you have the Jigglypuff mains and the Marth mains, both basically making their characters out to be better than everybody else, yet they BOTH agree that Jigglypuff murders Marth (because, you know, she... ummm... has a hat?) then you can probably be sure that it is so. Yes, as time goes on most of the disputes will probably come to an end.

Lastly, I should state again (as many others have as well) that the chart only considers HUMAN players that are GOOD with their characters. As well, posting the reasoning behind your match-up helps add a lot of credibility to your claim as well as making the claim open to discussion.

 

[draigaran]

I actually think that Charizard would have the advantage over Olimar, because of flamethrower and fair owning pikmin.

 

[whisperingtears]

Man that charts brings up memories of the pokemon type charts.

 

[I 0022 I]

in my experiences, sonic can be an extremely tricky match up for snake

 

[GoForkUrself]

Agreed. My friend's little brother can even beat me with Sonic when I use Snake. I have no problem against even the toughest characters like Wolf, Pit, and Marth with Snake, but vs Sonic I just get punished.
Also I don't think people will just defend their mains. I know that I personally want bad match ups shown on here for my mains, that way when players beat me with those characters, I can just say it was a bad character match up and not have to say they are better than me.

 

[xilez]

Diddy > Marth.

 

[ComradeSAL]

Some more thoughts:

Ike > Metaknight:

MK has the same problems that Jiggypuff has vs Ike. In order to use any of his attacks, MK has to get close to Ike. Ike has such amazing sweeping moves (usmash, anyone?) that MK is going to sometimes get hit no matter how he approaches. And even if MK hits Ike twice for every one time Ike hits him, Ike will win because of his amazing killing power and MK's low weight. 80% kills are not uncommon.

R.O.B > Wario:

Wario has 1 good approach vs. ROB: his short hopped dair. Everything else just gets ***** by ROB's fairs. ROB's laser, unlike most projectiles, actually hits Wario off his bike, which is bad news. And once Wario does finally get ROB up to killing percentages, ROB's campy style and long range makes it almost impossible to kill him with his shortranged fsmash. He has to instead rely on uairs, which only kill if they aren't stale.

R.O.B > Link

This is very similar to the TLink matchup, except Link's boomerang/arrows are now way worse and his Usmash (which is Tlink's best killing move) is that terrible 3 hit thing from melee. Instead he has to rely on Fsmashes to kill, which are OK but difficult to land against a campy opponent. Additionally, Link's awful recovery, lack of floatiness and air DI makes him even easier to edgeguard then TLink.

 

[OrionX1989]

Agreed. My friend's little brother can even beat me with Sonic when I use Snake. I have no problem against even the toughest characters like Wolf, Pit, and Marth with Snake, but vs Sonic I just get punished.
Also I don't think people will just defend their mains. I know that I personally want bad match ups shown on here for my mains, that way when players beat me with those characters, I can just say it was a bad character match up and not have to say they are better than me.

i'm sorry but i have to disagree, snake can beat sonic. sonic does not have a lot of killing attacks and snake is a heavy tank. mines in the middle of the stage cut off any spin atack approach and C4 can just double to problem for sonic. also sonic is fairly lightweight and can get killed just over 100% with any of snakes aerial moves. nikitia missles can keep sonic at a distance if the snake is good enough. and if the snake is good at dodging, CQC is gonna destroy sonic. so i say advantage snake

 

[Corner-Trap]

To the OP, what program are you using to make that chart?

 

[Lgndknight]

Personally I think Marth has the advantage over Meta, and how does Snake have an advantage on Meta?

 

[VVayfarer]

TL has a great advantage over Ike, you should correct that. Ike is weak against spammable projectiles AND speed, so it's obvious.

 

[AlexX]

How is Ike at a disadvantage against Wario? Just about everything Ike does has greater range...

 

[OrionX1989]

How is Ike at a disadvantage against Wario? Just about everything Ike does has greater range...

i have to say that wario wins against ike because ike doesn't combo well and wario is a combo god. plus wario is a very jiggs type fighter. lots of in and out. wuick attacks and retreating leave ike in the dust. wario also dodges very fast and get right behind ike and blow him away. plus wario and edge guard with no fear of dying since he has the bike. and as a possible last resort, the waft if there is any decent charge. advantage-wario

 

[omegablackmage]

game and watch is probably at a disadvantage to toon link and olimar. probably even matchups with meta knight, marth, snake, and link. everyone else game and watch most likely has the advantage over.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Marth beats G&W in the match-up.

Not by alot though. Very slight advantage.

55/45 for Marth.

 

[Jink]

Pit owns Link...

All Pit moves have killing potential at 100%+, mostly because of Link's awful ringout recovery and Pit can carrie anyone out to the deaths, plus his attack are pretty safe on whiff.
v
Link only have Dair, Spin, Fsmash for the quick kill, which are very unsafe and badly punishable on whiff or shield.
---

Pit is fairly heavy for a flying character and that makes it harder to beat
v
Link is too heavy and always loses air momentum after his AirSpin, easy pray.
---

Pit's Arrow spam gives hard time to anyone, even to prevent jumps and kill you at RingOutRecovery, plus each arrow deals 5%+ damage. Pit has 2 deflecting moves that hits and forces you to DI backwards and can stay hitting you in corners by just keep pressing B, the other flips you on parried hit, can only be hit in the back, can stay for a long time and can get out of it with few-no lag.
v
Link has his NeutralShield which has no lag, but Pit can arrow Link in the face and legs very easily, but Link's Bomb can go through Pit's arrow and hit him but Link will probably eat 1-2 arrows for getting the Bomb out.
---

Pit has very strong+safe attack-grab MixUps because his quickness and arrows, and has ChainGrabs.
v
Link's ClawShot has long range (even if shorter than Melee) low damage and combo potential (on its owns) while being very unsafe if whiffed, and is good on air for no-lag-pokes.
---

Pit is a "basic win character" (no offense).
v
Link is a character that his entire potential is at the player's wits.
---

more later...

 

[jiovanni007]

Kirby < Meta, Ike, Marth, Toon Link, Lucario
Kirby > Bowser, DK, ROB, Luigi, Mario, Ganondorf, Link, Yoshi

 

[Corner-Trap]

I read the IC's section of the match-up chart and almost fell out my seat. How on Earth are they at a disadvantage against Ganondorf? They dominate that match so hard that I'm shocked anyone would think otherwise. Here are my match-ups for the IC's and if you want me to elaborate on any of them just ask.

Bowser - Good
Captain Falcon - Good
Charizard - Good
Diddy Kong - Fair
Donkey Kong - Good
Falco - Fair
Fox - Fair
Game & Watch - Fair
Ganondorf - Good
Ike - Good
Ivysaur - Good
Jigglypuff - Fair
King Dedede - Good
Kirby - Fair
Link - Good
Lucario - Fair
Lucas - Fair
Luigi - Fair
Mario - Good
Marth - Fair
Meta Knight - Fair
Ness - Good
Peach - Good
Pikachu - Bad
Pikman & Olimar - Fair
Pit - Fair
R.O.B. - Fair
Samus - Good
Sheik - Good
Snake - Fair
Sonic - Good
Squirtle - Fair
Toon Link - Fair
Wario - Good
Wolf - Fair
Yoshi - Good
Zelda - Fair
Zero Suit Samus - Fair

 

[JNS]

This is mostly playing with friends but here are some of my observations

How can diddy not have an advantage over sonic. his bananas essentially make sonic's hit and run tactics on the ground useless plus he can play him effectivelly in the air

kirby has a very slight advantage on olimar as his up b works very nicely as a pikmin shield and he definetly has an advantage on thea air.

also zelda has a pretty nice going with pit because of nayru's love and her fireball spam.

ike is badly owned by pikachu. The thundershock cancels ike side b which is one of his main aproaches , not to mention pika alrady outduels him anywhere else

 

[Boolossus]

Umm, alright, I have a few more.

ROB is countered by Lucas and Yoshi I believe. They just seem to do a good job of getting in close to him.

DK counters Lucas, because of his incredible range.

Link Counters Toon Link, because of range.

 

[metroid1117]

Ike is at a severe disadvantage against any projectile spammer (aka Pit, Falco, and Toon Link); he simply has no decent strategy against campers.

Sorry if this was posted already, but I didn't see it on the chart on the first page.

 

[xilez]

Link Counters Toon Link, because of range.

False - Bears Beats Battlestar Galactica

 

[evilflame101]

Great list so far, what we really need though is a group of people to work on this, and also list each legal stage for each character match up and see who has the advantage, in other words a character match up combined with stage choice. That would be amazing.

 

[Hestix]

Olimar is definitely worse than Lucario because of double team and edge hogging.

Edge hogging with Up+B also makes Lucario better than zero suit samus.

And ivysaur.

The people with tether recoveries are destroyed by aura balls, aggressive fairs and edge hogging.