Brawl Character Match-Up chart

[Zetsuei]

Marth has advantages over all most any character.

More then anyone else does.

He pwns.

And although English denies him, his Japanese name is cool. 'Marusu', or the direct translation 'Mars'.

 

[ROOOOY!]

You are not qualified to make this chart. You do not have enough Brawl knowledge.

What do you base your information on?
Topics in the Characters individual forums?
Pitting Level 9 CPUs against each other?
Personal experience?

FAIL

Actually, a lot of people have imputted into this, tournnament directors and goers and such.
What you're saying is...the combined knowledge of the biggest Smash Community in the world aren't qualified enough to make this chart?

FAIL

 

[Emblem Lord]

Valken stfu and gtfo kthnx bai.

Snake murders Pit. Pit has no advantage on any of the top tier candidates.

All Pit has on him is arrows and that isn't enough. Snake beats him in range, power, and priority and Pit can't kill him. He might be able to gimp him though.

 

[Valken]

Actually, a lot of people have imputted into this, tournnament directors and goers and such.
What you're saying is...the combined knowledge of the biggest Smash Community in the world aren't qualified enough to make this chart?

FAIL

If they were qualified to make this chart they would have. The SBR is pretty much the combined knowledge of the biggest Smash Community in the world, and they know that they don't have enough knowledge to do this.

But it's not my oppinions that decide whether or not you are qualified to make this chart. It's simply the fact that the chart fails at every corner, no pun intended.

Right now, the most intelligent thing anyone can do with a matchup chart is simple post the characters that have a DEFINATE advantage over opponents. Simply put, no characters potential has been fully unlocked, there for a matchup chart is impossible.

Characters that have obvious advantages over other characters are the only ones that should be in here. Pikachu over Fox for example. This is one of the few examples of advantage. Pikachu can get Fox to 100% easily, no escape. Since Fox can get KO'd by Pikachu at 100% this is an advantage. Falco does not have an advantage over Fox. He may be able to CG Fox to aobut 60% tops, the fact of the matter is that with enough knowledge of Falco combos and spikes a Fox can avoid all tricks. This would leave Falco at a 50% advantage but with extremely limited KO options. All the while Fox can KO him before 90%. Seems like a pretty even fight.

I suggest you change the title of this thread to
BRAWL CHARACTER MATCHUP CHART IF NIETHER YOU NOR YOUR OPPONENT ARE GOING TO PUT EFFORT TOWARDS WINNING

Yeah, that seems more fitting.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ok, this last post proves you don't know ****.

People I think it's time to go to the ignore list and put Valken on it.

Let's just not respond to his post anymore. he made one or two valid points, but this last point was just pure idiocy.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

even though people have already told valken he is wrong so this post might not me necessary i would just like to say yes this will need changes and in time when more is figured out those changes will come. Also Ivan has taken on a tuff task of trying to make one of these charts and it seems to me is being very fair with it so you should give him credit were credit is due.

 

[Valken]

Ok, this last post proves you don't know ****.

People I think it's time to go to the ignore list and put Valken on it.

Let's just not respond to his post anymore. he made one or two valid points, but this last point was just pure idiocy.

What exactly about my last point do you not agree with?

I only made 3 points.

He's not qualified to make this chart.
SBR knows an attempt at this chart or a tier list is futile right now.
Falco does not have an advantage over a Fox of equal skill.

Which part of that exactly do you not agree with?

 

[Emblem Lord]

NAGACE: Just put him on your ignore list and all the stupidness just dissappears.

Come on man. Just do it. Be free of the idiocy.

 

[Best101]

Why does Captain Falcon suck so much? What is that he lost from Melee that killed him so hard in Brawl? It is harder to sweetspot his knee, but I don't think it would be enough to make him one of the worst in the game. His uair seems more powerful but the lack of combos could hurt him a little. The physics affect all characters not just Falcon. Imo C.F is an O.K. character.

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

dedede has a lot of bad matchups to be so good. I dunno if this chart is very accurate. And Lucario having an advantage over MK? I don't see it.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Why does Captain Falcon suck so much? What is that he lost from Melee that killed him so hard in Brawl? It is harder to sweetspot his knee, but I don't think it would be enough to make him one of the worst in the game. His uair seems more powerful but the lack of combos could hurt him a little. The physics affect all characters not just Falcon. Imo C.F is an O.K. character.

He was one of the more combo reliant characters in Melee. Combos were not only what made him fast, but what made him good. The new physics limits comboing, which hurts someone like Captain Falcon more than it would hurt someone slower who doesn't combo anyway.

 

[Aminar]

Then explain to me how I regularily beat or come close to beating snakes far far better than me with my Pit. I fought several amzing snake players over the course of a tournament and did very well against them. I'
m not that good at smash where I should be dominating excellant players in a losing matchup.

 

[ShadowLink84]

O_O

Characters that have obvious advantages over other characters are the only ones that should be in here. Pikachu over Fox for example. This is one of the few examples of advantage. Pikachu can get Fox to 100% easily, no escape. Since Fox can get KO'd by Pikachu at 100% this is an advantage. Falco does not have an advantage over Fox. He may be able to CG Fox to aobut 60% tops, the fact of the matter is that with enough knowledge of Falco combos and spikes a Fox can avoid all tricks. This would leave Falco at a 50% advantage but with extremely limited KO options. All the while Fox can KO him before 90%. Seems like a pretty even fight.

This is the main reason why no one shall care to listen to you.
Have a good day.

Oh and don't worry I read the majority of your posts and the argument you presented, however, when I began to type a response I realizedit would be better just to include the little bolded part and allow it to speak for itself.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Aminar: I can't judge your matches with those Snakes. I have no vids. Besides I know for a fact that Pit really has nothing on Snake.

Snake is just a better character and has better tools. There is no strategy or tool that Pit ahs that would allow him to dominate Snake.

Also how do you know for sure those Snakes are better then you?

Maybe you underestimate yourself or overestimate your opponents.

 

[IvanEva]

The wall is lesser do to airdodging.

True, but from my experiences, air dodging against Kirby isn't a perfect defense since he's floaty enough to follow you and punish you when you're done air dodging. Air dodging with Link over the edge isn't the best idea either (at least from what I've seen).

This chart is done by technical things isnt it, because in my experiance Pika>Pit, i cant explane why..it just seems to be every Pit i play with my pika doesnt come up on top

What kind of strategies are you using? Which moves do you use more often. Which ones do you refrain from? This could be helpful. Of course, the Pit players may simply be unsure of how to beat a Pikachu. Are they using their mirrors?

1. You are not qualified to make this chart. You do not have enough Brawl knowledge.

2. What do you base your information on? Topics in the Characters individual forums? Pitting Level 9 CPUs against each other? Personal experience?

3. The only thing that you can use to base this chart on is plenty of Brawl study. Mastering every character and learning from it.

4. If you did have that sort of knowledge there would be a few differences:
- This chart would not be anywhere near complete. It wouldn't even be posted.

5. This chart would at least resemble some sort of correct match up information.

6. You would be a member of the SBR.

7. Even the changes made are entirely speculations.

8. What is the point of having this?

9. No intelligent Brawlers take this seriously. Unintelligent Brawlers are remaining unintelligent because they take this seriously.

10. However, on the bright side... It looks very pretty. If that matters at all.

1. Anybody with a cursory knowledge of Brawl (and very basic Illustrator/Photoshop skills) can "make" this chart. It's a relatively simple matter of reading and changing the chart based on convincing arguments and concensuses (that is so not spelt correctly... ). Most of these match-ups aren't originating from my own experiences. Sort of. Can anybody ever have enough Brawl (or any other subject) knowledge? How will I know when I have "enough"? Simply put, you don't know what I know and what I "know" keeps growing. Doesn't really matter much though due to point number 2:

2. This chart has been made possible due to the many posters who have given input into the match-ups (or aesthetics of the chart). The information contained within is from all over Smashboards, as well as my own experiences. I mostly just look at this thread though, as I don't actually have enough time to read every thread on Smashboards. No CPUs were harmed in the making of this chart.

3. Sort of. I don't need to master every character since there are plenty of good mains here who've been helping me fill it out. The best of the best can't know every match-up, but by combining what we know we can fill it out.

4. This chart ISN'T anywhere near complete. It'll keep evolving as time goes on. As for posting it in an "incomplete" manner, by that logic, tier lists shouldn't be posted until they're set in stone, completely unchangable.

5. AHA! The true problem has arisen! You don't like the chart because you DISAGREE with it! Dude, you could have just said so. In order to tell me that it's incorrect, you must know what is correct, right? Post the match-up that you disagree with and your reasons for it so that we can learn from you (or teach you) and improve the chart in doing so.

6. You give them too much credit. Rather, you give everybody else too little. For all things Melee related you may be correct, but the champions of Brawl have yet to emerge.

7. No, they're analysises (I hate those words...) and conclusions. At least, they're supposed to be.

8. Get what you can from the chart. Even if it's not particularly useful (since most people only main one or two characters anyway) it can still be informative.

9. You'll have to back that up with something (show of hands, who's unintelligent here? ). A lot of the posts here have been very intelligent from what I've read.

10. Thank you. It does matter since not being able to stare at the chart for very long would lower its usefulness, no? Like the information within, the look of the chart has been influenced by some posters (thanks again for the suggestions guys).

And although English denies him, his Japanese name is cool. 'Marusu', or the direct translation 'Mars'.

English may not deny him for much longer... As for his name translation, it'd be better as Malus. Mars is more 'Ma-su'. Remember Castlevania 64? Remember Dracula's kid form? He was called Malus as well. I'll have to check out his Japanese name but I'm betting it was 'Marusu'.

He might be able to gimp him though.

Isn't Snake rather difficult to gimp due to his super armour?

1. It's simply the fact that the chart fails at every corner, no pun intended.

2. Simply put, no characters potential has been fully unlocked, there for a matchup chart is impossible.

3. Since Fox can get KO'd by Pikachu at 100% this is an advantage. Falco does not have an advantage over Fox. He may be able to CG Fox to aobut 60% tops, the fact of the matter is that with enough knowledge of Falco combos and spikes a Fox can avoid all tricks. This would leave Falco at a 50% advantage but with extremely limited KO options. All the while Fox can KO him before 90%. Seems like a pretty even fight.

4. I suggest you change the title of this thread to
BRAWL CHARACTER MATCHUP CHART IF NIETHER YOU NOR YOUR OPPONENT ARE GOING TO PUT EFFORT TOWARDS WINNING

1. Can you be specific? I mean, you did give the example of Pikachu > Fox and that's what the chart has as well so it can't be failing at EVERY corner, maybe just the top left (where Bowser, Captain Falcon and Charizard live ).

2. How can you tell when a character's potential has been "fully unlocked"? If they're still "locked" wouldn't the match-up chart still be accurate in that it reflects the current status of match-ups?

3. So much negativity when all you really wanted to say that you find Fox and Falco neutral. Perhaps somebody else can defend the Falco>Fox opinion. As for knowing all of Falco's combos and spikes, that's a silly point. I know Marth's tip well. You know what, I'll get still hit with it. I know to try and avoid it but to think that just because you know of it makes you immune is overly presumptuous.

4. Strongly doubtful. If you didn't try this chart would look very different (well, Meta and Marth would still be up there).

dedede has a lot of bad matchups to be so good. I dunno if this chart is very accurate. And Lucario having an advantage over MK? I don't see it.

Be specific. And yes, the Lucario/Meta seems to be questioned. I'll have to change it to debated.

 

[ShadowLink84]

True, but from my experiences, air dodging against Kirby isn't a perfect defense since he's floaty enough to follow you and punish you when you're done air dodging. Air dodging with Link over the edge isn't the best idea either (at least from what I've seen).

Yeah they tend to start it up when you're outside the arena which is problematic.
if it was over the edge of the stage then you can airdodge and tether to avoid it but I see what you mean.

Isn't Snake rather difficult to gimp due to his super armour?

They are JUGGERNAUT frames. NOT superarmor.
A Bair from sonic WILL knock Snake out of his recovery.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Snake has no bad match-ups.

Please change that.

Any match that he has an X should just be even until I start arguing why he has advantage.

Also CF loses to everyone except Ganon which he goes even with. He might go even with Yoshi.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Emblem that statementsounds rather egotistic. XD.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Sure does.

But only a few people in this thread can debate on a high level and none are arguing for Snake so I figure hey why not me?

Also I have defended him in the past so..yeah.

I have been rowdy since I started debating with people in the brawl threads.

I mean..did you READ what Valken said?

<_<

Kind of hard not to get a little cocky when you read something like that and you KNOW people who think like that are trying to argue with you everyday.

 

[ShadowLink84]

True.
Hmm who is Snake even with so far?
I'll argue for them that way we can have an actual dioscussion going rather than one about whose qualified to make a chart.

 

[Juggalo]

Eh, my only other post to this long-*** thread was flaming the chart idea, but I'm posting a different view on things this go-a-round.

The chart's still in its early stages, and 3 million people have 3 million opinions, and everybody swears up and down that they're right.


The reason why the japanese brawlers are able to make tier lists at this point is because they have better communication, a smaller community (compare populations of their forums vs. ours), and a higher value of education so they know how to listen to one another with less complete bull****ing just because "ZOMG MY FAVRIT CHARACUTER IZNT TEH BEST WTF I R BEST UV MY FRINZ WITH HIM"



I'mma check this chart back up in like 4 years, and then we'll start really talking business

 

[Surri-Sama]

NAGACE: Just put him on your ignore list and all the stupidness just dissappears.

Come on man. Just do it. Be free of the idiocy.

Actually its people like you who feed people idiocy, by the spoonfuls.... you try to counter a point by telling someone to ignore someone else, gg?

And seriously Valken I think your right for the most part, but your missing one vital thing, NO ONE has the info to do this, the Broomers DO have the most knowledge about these things, but this chart is FAR to general, like i said earlier (in an ignored post) my Pika tears through Pit, but not through Ike, why doesn’t the chart cover this...because its impossible for it to cover such a broad range of information in such a general manor.

P.S.: Post #500 :D

 

[Emblem Lord]

It says Snake is at disadvantage vs Falco, Lucas, Olimar, Pikachu, Zelda and ROB.

Where to start. How about Falco.

Snake can duck his lasers and his shine. But Falco has a CG to high percents. I think Snake can escape any CG by getting out a grenade though so Falco loses out here.

Snake can kill Falco very early since Falco is a light weight, while Falco will have alot of torulbe killing Snake since his kills moves suck and Snake is very heavy.

Advantage goes to Snake.

Agreed?

Edit: Valken made good points, but he said alot foolish thing as well. Saying how we aren't qaulified to do this? Because we aren't in the SBR? What kind of **** is that? Like only intelligent people exist in the SBR and they are the only ones capable of intelligent discussion. Plenty of good arguemtns and debates have taken place in this thread. The stupid arguments and the people who have no idea what they are talking about are ignored and everyday the chart gets more and more accurate.

Who the hell is he to say who and who is not qualified to make a match-up chart?
This is our community. So why shouldn't we all have our chance to contribute as long as we do it in an intelligent manner? He contributed nothing by saying that and it ws all said before.

So instead of trying to shut him down and just flamed him and put him on my ignore list. Immature? Yes, very. But you know what?

I'm just sick of trying to counter people's arguments who contribute nothing or are steeped in thier own ignorance.

It's a waste of time.

 

[ShadowLink84]

It says Snake is at disadvantage vs Falco, Lucas, Olimar, Pikachu, Zelda and ROB.

WTF@Zelda and pikachu

Where to start. How about Falco.

Snake can duck his lasers and his shine. But Falco has a CG to high percents. I think Snake can escape any CG by getting out a grenade though so Falco loses out here.

Snake can kill Falco very early since Falco is a light weight, while Falco will have alot of torulbe killing Snake since his kills moves suck and Snake is very heavy.

Advantage goes to Snake.

Agreed?

No I think it breaks evenly.
Laser and shine can be ducked but they don't need to give out damage in order to be effective.
Falco can use the lasers and shine to manipulate Snake's movements and palce him in a position that is viable for him. Snake can duck but Falco can continue using his lasers and shine to hold back and projectiles that snake tosses at him as well as maintain spacing.
once Snake gets up close Falco can quickly land a few hits and knock him away.
In CQC Snake is of course one of the best and outdoes him with jabs and Ftilts.but I think that if Falco manages to maintain distance, and tries to maintain control of the match, he could remain even.


Snake can use his Usmash to get up close but I think that if Falco user has any knowledge he would know Snake's ability to get up close and be prepared.
There is also the issue that while Falco cannot kill easily, his Dsmash comes out very quickly.
Spot dodge to Dsmash can knock Snake away and force him below the edge making it easy for Falco to grab him and ruin his recovery attempts.

If Falco plays defensively he'll do far better because his aerials are faster and can beat out Snake's and his shine and laser can maintain spacing. By doing such it hurts Snake further because Snake doesn't have a large amount of approach options.
If Falco acts more defensively and maintains control and spacing, Snake may have a tough time.

Edit: Valken made good points, but he said alot foolish thing as well. Saying how we aren't qaulified to do this? Because we aren't in the SBR? What kind of **** is that? Like only intelligent people exist in the SBR and they are the only ones capable of intelligent discussion. Plenty of good arguemtns and debates have taken place in this thread. The stupid arguments and the people who have no idea what they are talking about are ignored and everyday the chart gets more and more accurate.

Who the hell is he to say who and who is not qualified to make a match-up chart?
This is our community. So why shouldn't we all have our chance to contribute as long as we do it in an intelligent manner? He contributed nothing by saying that and it ws all said before.

So instead of trying to shut him down and just flamed him and put him on my ignore list. Immature? Yes, very. But you know what?

I'm just sick of trying to counter people's arguments who contribute nothing or are steeped in thier own ignorance.

It's a waste of time.

You are speaking to the choir man.

 

[Surri-Sama]

It says Snake is at disadvantage vs Falco, Lucas, Olimar, Pikachu, Zelda and ROB.

Where to start. How about Falco.

Snake can duck his lasers and his shine. But Falco has a CG to high percents. I think Snake can escape any CG by getting out a grenade though so Falco loses out here.

Snake can kill Falco very early since Falco is a light weight, while Falco will have alot of torulbe killing Snake since his kills moves suck and Snake is very heavy.

Advantage goes to Snake.

Agreed?

Edit: Valken made good points, but he said alot foolish thing as well. Saying how we aren't qaulified to do this? Because we aren't in the SBR? What kind of **** is that? Like only intelligent people exist in the SBR and they are the only ones capable of intelligent discussion. Plenty of good arguemtns and debates have taken place in this thread. The stupid arguments and the people who have no idea what they are talking about are ignored and everyday the chart gets more and more accurate.

Who the hell is he to say who and who is not qualified to make a match-up chart?
This is our community. So why shouldn't we all have our chance to contribute as long as we do it in an intelligent manner? He contributed nothing by saying that and it ws all said before.

So instead of trying to shut him down and just flamed him and put him on my ignore list. Immature? Yes, very. But you know what?

I'm just sick of trying to counter people's arguments who contribute nothing or are steeped in thier own ignorance.

It's a waste of time.

Im going to asume your edit was for me, which means you still dont see the point, this chart is usless...really

P.S.: Is it just me, or is that people who quote Yuna, think that they can win every arguement (like Yuna((i mean that she does win not that she thinks))

 

[ShadowLink84]

DON'T ****ING QUOTE IF YOU ARE ONLY GOING TO REPLY WITH ONE SENTENCE!

Seriously when did common sense become rare?
This chart is useful because guess what? At the end of the day the match ups will still be there and they will always be there.

Why? same reason Tier lists exist.

Seriously read my signature if you do not understand.

P.S.: Is it just me, or is that people who quote Yuna, think that they can win every arguement (like Yuna((i mean that she does win not that she thinks))

Its just you.
i've been a debater for years. Now go away and learn to use parentheses properly.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Lawl, +1 post count

If you're not helping and just saying how awful this thread is, leave. Get your posts up a more productive way and stop wasting everyone's time.

And Falco's matchup is even because his projectile spam doesn't let Snake throw grenades or use the rocket launcher, which are both undeniably an important part of his game. Although, of course, Snake does still have other options - tilts for KOs, mines for fun. Falco's recovery is bad enough that he can't even try to edgeguard Snake's unconventional up-B. However, Falco still has moves that outrange Snake's tilts and most certainly his smashes, so neutral.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I think it is b/c of me that zelda has a check on snake and this is b/c at the time my brand new zelda (just started playing her) beat a snake online of a guy who at that gave me trouble. But now i think it should have a question mark or maybe even till i or someone else gets more info in the fight because i fought a friend online for the 1st time yesterday and his snake beat me bad (their was lag i think he would of won without it just not by as much) Anyway the snake vs zelda fight was one i said i was unsure of and now i am starting to think i was wrong but i still don't think he destroys her.

Emblem i agree with you that their are other intelligent people outside the back room and the less intelligent comments are ignored or shot down so this chart will be able to work in time. but i dont think i will put Valken on an ignore list unless he starts annoying me personaly and besides idiocy is part of life. (also look at this we are on the same side )

 

[Emblem Lord]

I can see Falco vs Snake as even. I just think Falco has to make less mistakes and work ahrder for the kill.

Anyway, moving on.

Vs Zelda.

...

I mean other then forcing Snake to approach with Din's Fire what does she have on him? He is stronger, hits hard, outranges her, outprioritizes her and kills her sooner then she kills him form what I have seen.

It might be even, simply because her u-smash kills well and she has to make him approach, but her close range game isn't as good as say Falco's.

I'll call it even for now though.

Discuss.

 

[Grandeza]

Can someone explain to me why Diddy is at a disadvantage against Charizard?

 

[KaShank]

Ivan, the more this goes on the more I agree with you. I'm sure that there will be some completely unexpected match-ups for some random reason that would almost be impossible to predict, but for the most part I'd say your zeroing in on a fairly accurate list. Good job ^_^

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

For the zelda vs snake thing her big advantage against snake is when you get him off the stage so he has to use his up-B and zelda's f-smash and d-smash can do this. Unless snake wants to be grabbed he will go hi which will give zelda a chance for her up-air or if he is to low for that up-smash. also the Naryu's is useful in this battle but timeing things right snake can get around that. and yes her up-smash is also very good as is din's in this fight but i think the reasons for that are pretty obvious I would say at this moment that at least in my eyes they are even or if one has the advantage over the other it is close and the better player will probably be the winner in the end. (i might be wrong about this in the end but its what i think right now)

 

[Browny]

Snake has no bad match-ups.

Please change that.

Any match that he has an X should just be even until I start arguing why he has advantage.

Also CF loses to everyone except Ganon which he goes even with. He might go even with Yoshi.

Look at pikachu..

he has two types of 80% chain grabs on snake that are A LOT more eaier to pull off than falcos, you dont even have to move, its about as easy as marth's vs the earthbound kids.

how exactly is snake going to get back on the stage against pikachu? snake horizontal airspeed is so incredibly low its impossible to airdodge through the entire thunder animation. it knocks him out of cypher and is effectively a WOP. with no sweetspotting the edge if he comes from below to try and get by thunder hes just asking for a dsmash which will hit him below the stage. pikas bolts destroy snakes projectiles and all that. he cant be pressures with grenades with his QAC.

looks pretty favourable to pika imo.

 

[IKE_Angel]

i've been waiting so long for someone to do this but u made ike look like a wuss

 

[Kraxil]

Useful tool, and definately made for an interesting read.
However, I still hold firm that no amount of tier list or matchup charts could change the fact that the better skilled player win.

Nonetheless, kudos for the work and effort spent making this sort of thing. =]

 

[KaShank]

Alright, I went ahead and did what I was asking.
Where advantage=+1 neutral/disputed=+0 and disadvantage=-1

Meta Knight: 24
Falco/Toon Link: 21
Marth/Mr. Game & Watch: 20
Snake: 18
Wolf: 17
R.O.B.: 16
Pikman and Olimar: 13
Pit: 11
Ice Climbers: 9
Zelda: 8
Ness: 7
Wario/Pikachu/Zero Suit Samus: 6
Lucario/Diddy Kong: 5
Lucas: 4
Kirby: 2
Sheik: 0
Fox/Link: -5
Ivysaur/Squirtle: -7
King Dedede/Mario: -8
Donkey Kong: -9
Luigi: -10
Samus: -12
Charizard/Sonic: -13
Peach: -14
Ike: -15
Jigglypuff: -20
Ganadorf: -21
Yoshi/Bowser: -24
Captain Falcon: -28

Alright this is NOT a tier list based upon the match up chart. It is simply a different representation of the data. So from this point of view my first reaction is that Ike probably shouldn't have a -15.
Keep in mind
A. This character match up chart solely based off of opinion from an uncredited source.
B. Most of the chart is not even fully completed or disputed therefore throwing off this data even farther.
C. As long as we are critiquing we are making progress so THAT IS THIS IS BEING DONE.

Alright! Time for Experimental Tier Gen. 2

Meta Knight: 28
Mr. Game & Watch: 26
Falco: 22
Toon Link: 20
Marth: 20
R.O.B/Pit: 17
Snake/Wolf: 16
Pikman and Olimar: 14
Zelda: 11
Ice Climbers: 10
Zero Suit Samus: 7
Ness/Wario/Pikachu/Lucas/Kirby: 6
Lucario: 5
Diddy Kong: 1
Sheik: -2
Link: -5
Fox/Ivysaur: -6
Sonic: -7
Squirtle/King Dedede: -8
Samus: -9
Donkey Kong/Luigi: -11
Mario: -14
Charizard/Peach: -15
Ike: -18
Jigglypuff: -20
Bowser/Ganadorf: -25
Yoshi: 26
Captain Falcon: -31

Not to much has changed, but sometimes it is just as important to see what hasn't changed.

From this perspective I would most have to disagree with Luigi's placement hes not THAT fail. Especially with D.K. D.K. has awesome tilts and a pretty good aerial game, unfortunately his disadvantages against certain characters is too much to be overlooked. However, Luigi doesn't share many of these disadvantages (except infinite grab which I heard is going to be banned anyway). Whatever, I could be wrong, but I would say that's the biggest thing to look into.

 

[DarkDragoon]

Yea, Snake should be #1 or #2.
Also, WHY does DeDeDe place in Negatives in ALL of your charts?

Honestly, we need to determine the dominant play style of the characters before ranking them like this, its beginning to look ridiculous.

DeDeDe wrecks 90% of anyone he can CG, people like Snake and MK being the exceptions(actually, can MK even be CG'd be DeDeDe?).

Snake can be played and easily win by walking around the neutral stages and killing with the FTilt, UTilt, Usmash, Grenades, and Jab combo. His Tilts are just TOO GOOD, and any other move he does is mostly for style points.

Squirtle is the best of PT's Pokemon, why is he so low?

>.> G&W is good, but hes not THAT good. High, sure, but not top.

-DD

 

[KaShank]

****, your right, I didn't even notice that. Yeah, D3 is definetly not much higher than that.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Yea, Snake should be #1 or #2.

>.> G&W is good, but hes not THAT good. High, sure, but not top.

Definitely agree with Snake's needing to be higher, Emblem Lord is pretty good at showing this since he's one of the few people on this thread that knows how Snake works.

And I'd have to disagree with you on G-Dub, he's easily top tier.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Dedede really only has one effective style.

Camping. He doesn't have the speed or the mobility to aggro. Which is why in certain match-ups where he is forced to aggro he is at disadvantage.