Brawl Character Match-Up chart

[Dark Sonic]

No, it's not an infinite and really doesn't add much. Forward air combos on Lucas are better in every way (apart from not being shield ignoring grabs)

Actually, the only way to get out is to do a jump break out of the grab (which not many people seem to be doing consistently) and even then you get a free aerial on them (like Uair). If they do the normal break out you can regrab or downsmash. It's great for setting up really easy kills.

7-3,8-2 for Marth please.

 

[KaShank]

Lucario beats MK hands down. Lucario has dodge rolls to avoid infinte combos, aura sphere for long range projectiles, and an awesome down air to punish meta knight for flying below him. And plus, meta knight has VERY FEW killing moves, and those killing moves are usually still not that good at it. MK is a character that racks up damage but has few killing moves. Lucario will simply own him when his aura multiplies the damge he deals by 1.25, then 1.5, then double, and meta knight will have a hard time trying to finish Lucario off. When Lucario is at 100%, a double team kills MK at 98%. All the while Meta Knight is struggling to finish Lucario off with his weak moves.

dj and I suggest that a check be put for Lucario having an advantage over meta knight. Do any meta knight fans disagree? IF so, please quote this post and explain why.

Goddam stfu about MK not having any good killing moves. Even if he didn't have his D-smash and Up-B which can easily kill at about 120, if undeteriorated, his massive edge guard ability is more than enough to be considered a killing move. I've been ***** by so many people on GB who had no trouble killing with Meta knight because they don't fail at playing him.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rzNzaPJKSbs&feature=related

 

[Roller]

This map is stupid. It really would need to set up matchups for different playstyles of each characters as well. Like Defensive fox vs offensive. This list isn't very acurate because it isn't specific enough.

 

[IvanEva]

wth are u on. i mean i like falco and im pretty good wit him, but he's not better than almost everyone in the game, for example, zero suit could just use her whip and gun/down smash to paralyze him while he tries to advance.

Can you elaborate a bit more on that? I mean, Falco doesn't really advance so much as force his opponents to advance.

Did you miss the D3 vs. Sonic debate, or was it just not enough to throw the match up in sonic's favour.

I thought that it was still being discussed so I left it alone. I'll change it to Sonic's favor until we get some good counter arguments.

Sonic> Ganondorf in speed, but that's about it. Speed can only get you so far, Ganondorf beats Sonic in Reach, Knockback, Priority, Damage, almost everything else.

But in this case it's an overwhelming amount of speed. Ganondorf doesn't have something like Bowser's Whirling Fortress to get Sonic off of him. Since EVERYTHING that Ganondorf does can be punished by Sonic, he had a hard time mind gaming him.

great job, i like the chart aside from what i said b4, nice job again but u should finish it.

It can only be finished if you help out by posting (with nice long explainations).

Actually, the only way to get out is to do a jump break out of the grab (which not many people seem to be doing consistently) and even then you get a free aerial on them (like Uair). If they do the normal break out you can regrab or downsmash. It's great for setting up really easy kills.

7-3,8-2 for Marth please.

Interesting. I guess my buddy isn't doing it properly then (I think he tries to time the grab instead of just mashing A or something). That or he just doesn't like to do it. I'll have to look into this a lot more, it sounds deadly.

Goddam stfu about MK not having any good killing moves.]

Agreed.

By the way, do the portrait pictures on the bottom help? Are they enough?

 

[Emblem Lord]

You actually believe that this guy knows what the hell he is talking about when he says ZSS beats Falco?

You serious?

 

[Kiwikomix]

Goddam stfu about MK not having any good killing moves.

Yes, I'm surprised people still think this. D-smash out of shield is great, up-B is great... some people kind of assume that since his f-smash isn't super-powerful, he can't KO. And yes, he can edgeguard like a beast, which is still useful even if edgeguarding isn't as big in brawl as it was in melee.

This is kind of a mixed-subject post, I guess. There's a Pika vs. Kirby matchup and a bit of an analysis on why Kirby beats Mario. (Btw, Chookay, if you're lurking these boards, I'm waiting for a Kirby vs. Mario fight)

Pikachu vs. Kirby
Pikachu ***** Kirby in so many ways. The only thing Kirby can do against Pikachu's thunderbolt spam is dodge, jump, or hold down A and cancel the bolt with his everlasting jab, which eventually pushes him back to the edge anyway, at which point Pikachu can spam thunder and thunderbolt. This makes it hard for even Kirby to get back to the stage. When he recovers from above, he can only airdodge thunder, since his stone has too much lag to be effective. When he recovers from the edge, it's only useful to roll past Pikachu. Even if this second alternative is successful, Pika will likely just Dsmash Kirby straight up, which means more thunder. Pikachu has around the same range as Kirby, but the disjoint on his f-smash will counter a lot of what Kirby throws at him. Finally, Kirby can't even edgeguard Pikachu's stellar recovery, which is quite a shame as it provides Kirby with a lot of his kills. (Well... a lot of my Kirby's kills anyway...) Pika > Kirby.

I Done Beated a Mario...
Online as Kirby. He was a pretty good Mario, too, so don't be whining and saying "aww he's not good enough" or "aww the lags are no fair". And I'm really sorry if it sounds like I'm bragging at any point during this, since I absolutely hate people who think too much of themselves.
First of all, I must admit that I gave Mario too little credit earlier. He can actually block Kirby's edgeguard occasionally with the cape, and when I tried jumping underneath the stage to the opposite edge to trick him, he bair'd me off the wall of Battlefield's edge and KO'ed me, since I had already used all my jumps. Kudos to Xtremedge for a good kill. Also, while Kirby is on the edge, it's pretty difficult to get back on while Mario is spamming fireballs, which is why I tried going underneath the stage.
However, Mario's ground and air games are still extremely lackluster. Several times both my opponent and I used an f-smash at the same time, and Kirby's always connected first. I even rushed in with Kirby's dash attack (which has very limited range, by the way) while Mario was charging up an f-smash, and I managed to hit him.
Let's say Kirby is far above the edge, having been knocked away by an aerial like nair or bair, or, at lower percentages, something like f-smash. Despite the fact that he can somehow kill a Goomba by hopping on it, Mario is no great jumper in Brawl, so this particular Mario stayed next to the edge waiting for Kirby to come back down. At this point I figured out that Kirby's aerial hammer absolutely destroys Mario, as its windup lag is somewhat canceled by the fact that you can start it early and still get a hit. In addition, it outranges everything Mario has in the air, so he's kind of screwed unless he can cape it without taking damage.

As always, everything I've posted is open for debate.

 

[Tristan Fattest of All Kids]

What is this list for? Is it for friendly play or hardcore?
It just doesn't seem to me that an MK has a disadvantage against Snake. I've two-stocked many Snakes, most of which in tournaments.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Good for you.

Either the Snakes sucked or you were much better.

Snake beats MK in the match-up.

MK has nothing on Snake really.

And why the hell would someone do amatch-up chart for casual play?

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

i am just wondering why doea mario beat zelda? i have yet to play a good mario so this might be right but i am just wondering what the reason was for giving mario the matchup?

 

[BibulousDan]

I think its crap that CF has all X's on everyone. he is good, he just go nerfed a bit.

 

[Gleam]

But in this case it's an overwhelming amount of speed. Ganondorf doesn't have something like Bowser's Whirling Fortress to get Sonic off of him. Since EVERYTHING that Ganondorf does can be punished by Sonic, he had a hard time mind gaming him.


This overwhelming speed is basically the only thing that Sonic's got going for him. His Knockback, reach, priority are pretty much all below average. Sonic's incredible speed isn't going to be enough to make up for just how horrible his other distatvantages are.

Take Pichu in Melee for example. He was pretty much one of the fastest characters in the game. Yet he was below Bowser in the tier list, and Bowser was pretty much one, if not the slowest character.

Pichu's cons clearly outweight his pros. The same thing goes with Sonic, his cons just outweight his pros.

 

[Dark Sonic]

this overwhelming speed is basically the only thing that Sonic's got going for him. His Knockback, reach, priority are pretty much all below average. Sonic's incredible speed isn't going to be enough to make up for just how horrible his other distatvantages are.

Actually, in this case it is. Sonic can easily just camp against Gannondorf, and Gannondorf is also pretty easy to edgeguard once he's off the stage.

Take Pichu in Melee for example. He was pretty much one of the fastest characters in the game. Yet he was below Bowser in the tier list, and Bowser was pretty much one, if not the slowest character.

Tier position=/= character matchups.

Pichu's cons clearly outweight his pros. The same thing goes with Sonic, his cons just outweight his pros.

Pichu was rediculously light and had an only above average recovery, and hurt himself. Sonic's midweight, has a great recovery, and good edgeguarding. Ganondorf is not exactly stellar himself, and Sonic's pros just match Ganondorf's cons so well. Easy to edgeguard vs good edgeguarder. Slow, large character vs fast, small character. Not so great edgeguarding vs great recovery. Ganondorf's attacks just aren't as safe as someone like Ike.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Tier position SHOULD reflect match-ups.

More accurate IMO.

 

[BEES]

Personally, I think Pichu was always underrated. His ability to punish was pretty good, and he did very well against slow heavy characters. It was characters with a lot of range that gave him trouble.

Sonic's problem is that he isn't even THAT fast. Sure he runs fast, and his tilts come out quick. But his side and up smash come out slow, and he's slow in the air, and utterly lacking in priority. I'm very disappointed with the way they integrated him into the game. He seems fast, but not usefully so.

And that's really what kills it for me. I was looking forward to Sonic being in the game. I'll bet everyone was thinking he would play more like Fox from Melee, utterly dominating the game with his speed and technical ****ery. Just the sheer fact that he's not one of the best characters in the game makes him seem like the worst.

At the moment he still seems legitimately better than Ganondorf in my book. What they did to Ganondorf was downright cruel.

 

[Gleam]

Actually, in this case it is. Sonic can easily just camp against Gannondorf, and Gannondorf is also pretty easy to edgeguard once he's off the stage.

Getting ganondorf off the edge is going to prove a little more difficult for sonic due to Ganondorf's weight and Sonic's lack of decent knockback.


Tier position=/= character matchups.

I was merely trying to make a point

Pichu was rediculously light and had an only above average recovery, and hurt himself. Sonic's midweight, has a great recovery, and good edgeguarding. Ganondorf is not exactly stellar himself, and Sonic's pros just match Ganondorf's cons so well. Easy to edgeguard vs good edgeguarder. Slow, large character vs fast, small character. Not so great edgeguarding vs great recovery. Ganondorf's attacks just aren't as safe as someone like Ike.

Ike's attacks are slower than Ganondorf, so basing this only on speed isn't very good. Edgeguarding against ganondorf can actually prove pretty dangerous in Sonic's case. Ganondorf's aerials>Sonic's aerial so almost any aerial attack sonic does, Ganondorf can counter. Ganondorf also has his B-forward which makes it even harder to edgeguard without facing consequences.

B-down provdes excellent spacing for Ganondorf when being pressured, as does B-forward. While Sonic can certainly rack up damage quickly, Ganondorf will be well in the 200% damage before any real affect on Ganondorf can be seen.

 

[Raiko]

My thoughts...

Mk has the upperhand agaisnt Ike.
First because his D-Smash has a nice knockback diretion, like, not diagonal up, but a good side knockback so Ike can't back after getting hit by it in decent ammounts of %.
Second because MK can punish Ike easily with combos, Grab to Fair to Uair combos work really well on Ike, his dair is not really a good option for a escape, nair doesnt work very well, so Mk can punish him easily and finish with a UP B.

MK is one of the best chars to edgeguard Ike, he can edgehog his Aether easier than other chars since he flies (he can go to safe positions so sword being thrown hit doesnt hit him, then he holds edge and go up from it when Ike is coming down), he can also fly towards Ike and block his Quick Draws, so Ike hits him and falls like a rotten tomato.

MK can play in Ike mistakes as well, since he is really fast, just waiting for mistakes and Ike's huge post-lag.

I don't know how you will receive this post, but, if people at least answer it with solid arguments instead of: you're wrong!!!1, I will make posts for other cases in this match-up list :D

 

[Browny]

sonic wont need to get g-dorf up to 200%

youve got possibly the worst recovery in the game up against one of the best edgeguarders in the game. heck, a b or d-throw off the stage at around 120% will send ganondorf far enough off the stage such that he wont get back on, and a d/fmsash at around 90% + spring gimp will kill early too.

 

[Jester Kirby]

I have to argue a few characters, Th epokemon trainer (all 3 pokemon) I feel are week vs Kirby. If kirby gets charizard's flamethrower, he can throw off everyone of the pokemon easily, especially squirtle, the move set seems easy too. I'v just never had a rpoblem vs pokemon triner b/c of the copy abilites owning the other pokemon.

With wolf, I think it should be neutral, his spams outrange kirby way to easily, but kirby has some VERY good combos vs wolf.

 

[Kiwikomix]

I have to argue a few characters, Th epokemon trainer (all 3 pokemon) I feel are week vs Kirby. If kirby gets charizard's flamethrower, he can throw off everyone of the pokemon easily, especially squirtle, the move set seems easy too. I'v just never had a rpoblem vs pokemon triner b/c of the copy abilites owning the other pokemon.

With wolf, I think it should be neutral, his spams outrange kirby way to easily, but kirby has some VERY good combos vs wolf.

Kirby can beat Ivysaur and Squirtle, but Charizard is a bit tougher. He's a slow character with strong attacks with good range, and therefore is less punishable than Bowser, DK, Ganondorf, and other big characters. Plus his flamethrower outranges Kirby's inhale, so it's hard for Kirby to get his abilities in the first place. Kirby is light and therefore dies early to strong characters like Charizard. However, he should remain neutral because he is much faster than Charizard, works much better in the air, and can often gimp Charizard's recovery. Plus Charizard doesn't have a projectile.

I would agree with the Wolf neutral, as Kirby can combo f-throw to uair to f-throw to u-air until the edge, at which point he can spike. He can also combo d-throw->u-tilt->u-tilt->u-tilt->u-air. Finally, Wolf's recovery is miserable enough that Kirby should have no problem keeping him from coming back to the stage.

 

[Gleam]

sonic wont need to get g-dorf up to 200%

youve got possibly the worst recovery in the game up against one of the best edgeguarders in the game. heck, a b or d-throw off the stage at around 120% will send ganondorf far enough off the stage such that he wont get back on, and a d/fmsash at around 90% + spring gimp will kill early too.

Ganondorf can actually return fairly well at 150% from one of Sonic's back throws, and Sonic's Down throw really isn't going to do much to Ganondorf. F-smash and D-smash do however give Ganondorf a hard time getting back so I will give you that.

 

[DarkDragoon]

Gannondorf < Sonic.
Sonic is too fast, and its not that Gannondorf's movement speed it too slow, because Sonic doesn't have projectiles, but because of his slow attack speed.
Ike's may be slower, but the fact is his hitboxes last LONGER, and have a farther reach, and are almost always KO moves.
GDorf's moves have less KO power, and smaller/shorter hitboxes. I wouldn't say GDorf's edge game stinks, because one firm hit from a BAir usually KOs. Unfortunetly, that slow BAir is one of GDorf's fastest moves.

GDorf's approaches are limited to either Flame Choke forward, or take a few years to get to your opponent to begin what may be attacking. It gets even worse if the opponent projectile spams/camps, because now GDorf is relying on his horrible jumps to get him across the stage, unless he wants to SLOWLY move forward while Perfect Shielding every hit.

At that point, GDorf can be smacked around mercilessly and dealt with promptly once he is over the ledge. GDorf's saving grace on his defense against great edge guards is his Gannoncide, which if anticipated, probably just killed you, and hitting with it barely sets the match even.

MK v. Lucario
MK is about even to Lucario. MK's Superior manuverability out-dos the Aura Spam. However, MK's edge guard has lower priority than Lucario's Aerials, and Lucario doesn't have too hard of a time reaching at least the ledge. MK's main KO moves on Lucario are his DSmash, FSmash, and Sweet Spotted B^. His smashes are quick, but incredibly predictable, making it either easy to block or DT(and DT's at fairly low %s can kill MK), and hit B^ can always be Airdodged, and in some cases DAired. The fact remains that Lucarios still have to do a LOT more work in this match up, but I would either call this even or in MK favor, if slightly.

Olimar > Lucario.
The amount of work Lucario has to do to win is staggering. Pikmin stop Aura Spheres at ANY charge level at ANY % and can be replaced at a whim. Lucario's best approach is his SHFFLDAir, which if done at the wrong moment will get beat down with a USmash or UTilt from Olimar. Olimar has a ridiculous grab range, and can combo out of them nicely. Lucario has no problem killing Olimar once hes off the ledge, however, because of the FAir->Fair->NAir combo and its incredible knockback, followed by a double jump and/or Extreme Speed to the ledge, we have one dead Olimar.

 

[Gleam]

Gannondorf < Sonic.
Sonic is too fast, and its not that Gannondorf's movement speed it too slow, because Sonic doesn't have projectiles, but because of his slow attack speed.
Ike's may be slower, but the fact is his hitboxes last LONGER, and have a farther reach, and are almost always KO moves.
GDorf's moves have less KO power, and smaller/shorter hitboxes. I wouldn't say GDorf's edge game stinks, because one firm hit from a BAir usually KOs. Unfortunetly, that slow BAir is one of GDorf's fastest moves.

I would hardly call Bair slow.

GDorf's approaches are limited to either Flame Choke forward, or take a few years to get to your opponent to begin what may be attacking. It gets even worse if the opponent projectile spams/camps, because now GDorf is relying on his horrible jumps to get him across the stage, unless he wants to SLOWLY move forward while Perfect Shielding every hit.

At that point, GDorf can be smacked around mercilessly and dealt with promptly once he is over the ledge. GDorf's saving grace on his defense against great edge guards is his Gannoncide, which if anticipated, probably just killed you, and hitting with it barely sets the match even.

But that's the thing, the only thing sonic really has going for him, attack wise, is his speed. His reach is down right horrible meaning sonic pretty much has to get right up in a character's face.

His aerials suffer the same fate, while they're fast as hell, they lack reach and priority and knockback.

So while Sonic>Ganondorf is Speed recovery, and edgeguarding.
Ganondorf>Sonic in Reach, Priority, damage, knockback.

 

[omegablackmage]

i just noticed some random changes to the list that i didn't see before:

mario - who the hell decided that mario was neutral vs gw? he has no range vs gw, his one projectile can be bucketed, and he has no kill potential. basically everything in this matchup screams an advantage for gw, please change it.

squirtle - i could basically have the same argument as above. has no range thus no way to real way to approach gw. yeah he can combo but so can gw, and squitle's speed is a little better sure but that doesn't give it a neutral matchup by any means. gw advantage.

diddy - he feels quite similiar to squirtle as far as range and combo ability go. He has a projectile at the trade off of a bit of speed. but his recovery is probably far worse and much easier to gimp. other than bananas (which are reversible) he has pretty much little approach towords gw. gw advantage.

link - yeah his projectile game is good and he has decent range but his speed is so bad and his recovery is so bad i fail to see how its a neutral matchup. gw destroys him with combos and its far too easy to edge guard him. the turtle outranges enough of his stuff to be able to approach him so i don't really see how its even, maybe someone else has a rebuttal?

 

[Emblem Lord]

You know what?

MARTH DENIES G&W!!!!!

hehe.

But seriously why is G&W so good now? It's just too crazy. You can't be killing people at 50% with a match. It ain't right.

 

[maggalo]

This was a really good board, I found it helpful in the tournament I was recently in. But I still lost...

 

[Grunt]

This was a really good board, I found it helpful in the tournament I was recently in. But I still lost...

smashboards helped someone?!?!
Group high five!

 

[DarkDragoon]

But that's the thing, the only thing sonic really has going for him, attack wise, is his speed. His reach is down right horrible meaning sonic pretty much has to get right up in a character's face.

His aerials suffer the same fate, while they're fast as hell, they lack reach and priority and knockback.

So while Sonic>Ganondorf is Speed recovery, and edgeguarding.
Ganondorf>Sonic in Reach, Priority, damage, knockback.

>.> Sonic can run in, turn around when GDorf starts to attack, and run back in with an attack before GDorf stops lagging.

Sonic has just as much reach in his Bair as GDorf does, and can do it out of a crazy fast spin dash.

GDorf's Bair is FAST for GDorf, but mediocre speed overall.
-DD

 

[omegablackmage]

um yeah i would say that marth does have the advantage vs gw. sheilding up b will hurt not spaced turtles, good range in general mixed with a lot of power and grab reach really will do gw in. its a close matchup, but def in marth's favor

 

[Emblem Lord]

Don't matter. G&W is still top tier material IMO.

 

[Browny]

if snake is **** in a can, G&W is **** in a bucket

Goddam stfu about MK not having any good killing moves. Even if he didn't have his D-smash and Up-B which can easily kill at about 120, if undeteriorated, his massive edge guard ability is more than enough to be considered a killing move

Thats why MK is weakened against lucario. MK's insane edgeguarding abilities are negated by the fact that lucarios simply have more range, theres no attacking him from below with his d-air that goes through just about every u-air i can think of. If MK hasnt killed lucario by 120%, he is going to be in serious trouble, lucario can just keep his distance and outrange you with his tilts and aura sphere forces MK to change his approaches. by that point its one of the strongest projectiles in the game (correct me if im wrong)

even when lucario is at around 90%, he is outranging, damging and prioritizing (i havent tested priority changing with aura, so its an asusmption at this point) everything MK has pretty much.

 

[IvanEva]

You actually believe that this guy knows what the hell he is talking about when he says ZSS beats Falco?

You serious?

Everybody is encouraged to post what they believe so that it can be disected and discussed. Maybe he knows something about that match-up that nobody else does. Thus far though, I'm not convinced and thus it's still Falco > ZSS.

i am just wondering why doea mario beat zelda? i have yet to play a good mario so this might be right but i am just wondering what the reason was for giving mario the matchup?

No clue. However, I really can't see how Mario has much on Zelda. His back air I can see beating out her kicks (unless they sweetspot or something. Would they cling instead?). I'm changing it to Zelda > Mario until a rebuttal comes in (since I can't remember why it was Mario > Zelda to begin with).

I think its crap that CF has all X's on everyone. he is good, he just go nerfed a bit.

Ok. This just isn't Wright (get it? Ha. Ha. Ha)... somebody with Phoenix as his avatar should be providing some specific examples and more in-depth explanations. Falcon's good (he's not TERRIBLE but thus far I don't find him 'good')? How? Who does he have an ad

I have to argue a few characters, Th epokemon trainer (all 3 pokemon) I feel are week vs Kirby. If kirby gets charizard's flamethrower, he can throw off everyone of the pokemon easily, especially squirtle, the move set seems easy too. I'v just never had a rpoblem vs pokemon triner b/c of the copy abilites owning the other pokemon.

With wolf, I think it should be neutral, his spams outrange kirby way to easily, but kirby has some VERY good combos vs wolf.

Can anybody else second this? I don't think that getting flamethrower alone is enough. I mean, what if the Pokémon Trainer uses Charizard last? What then? More info needed.

I've heard good things about what Kirby can do to Wolf. Everybody cool with them being neutral?

You know what?

MARTH DENIES G&W!!!!!

But you know what's even better? ENGLISH DENIES MARTH!
...
Although I guess it denies Lucas as well... Or should I say 'Ryuka'...

EDIT: I was looking through the Ice Climbers' thread and they're all very positive in their favor. So much so that I figured that it was probably overly biased. However, as I'm learning more about them and their grabs, I'm starting to reconsider. Take a look at their thread - are they really all that and a bag of chips? Can anybody shed some light on things? Somebody posted earlier that they should have an advantage over everybody since they can infinite. Is it really an infinite? Why isn't everybody raving about how they're God tier? More info needed...

 

[Deleted member]

as a link main ill try to help you out with link's oponents

Jigs: Link is actually bad against jigglypuff because of the wall, jig's amazing priority and her air control, she can also by pass a lot of link's spam game

Link should have an X on this match

Kirby: also an extremely hard game, kirby has gained the ability to do the wall and his multiple dair edge guard gimps link like none other

another X for link

im at school right now so ill update this post later

 

[ShadowLink84]

The wall is lesser do to airdodging.

 

[Valken]

Does anybody actually take this seriously?

 

[Surri-Sama]

This chart is done by technical things isnt it, because in my experiance Pika>Pit, i cant explane why..it just seems to be every Pit i play with my pika doesnt come up on top

 

[Valken]

You are not qualified to make this chart. You do not have enough Brawl knowledge.

What do you base your information on?
Topics in the Characters individual forums?
Pitting Level 9 CPUs against each other?
Personal experience?

The only thing that you can use to base this chart on is plenty of Brawl study. Mastering every character and learning from it.

If you did have that sort of knowledge there would be a few differences:

1. This chart would not be anywhere near complete. It wouldn't even be posted.
2. This chart would at least resemble some sort of correct match up information.
3. You would be a member of the SBR.

I suppose I've begun to rant. I guess what I'm trying to say is...

FAIL

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Valken what you and others who say things like this have to relize this is a work in progress and wont be done anytime soon. There is sure to be many changes in this chart from right now and it might be years before it is perfect if it ever gets to be perfect. This is just to try to help people as much as it can and bring a good discussion for why one character beats another (not saying you always get a good discussion)
Also the guy who made this thread ivan is not saying what he thinks has to be right he is just says what he thinks and if someone has a good reason for it being wrong it seems he is very open to change it.

 

[undyinglight]

Wolf has the advantage over Sonic.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=163710

 

[Valken]

Valken what you and others who say things like this have to relize this is a work in progress and wont be done anytime soon. There is sure to be many changes in this chart from right now and it might be years before it is perfect if it ever gets to be perfect. This is just to try to help people as much as it can and bring a good discussion for why one character beats another (not saying you always get a good discussion)
Also the guy who made this thread ivan is not saying what he thinks has to be right he is just says what he thinks and if someone has a good reason for it being wrong it seems he is very open to change it.

Exactly, it will not be done because it requires much changes. Even the changes made are entirely speculations.

What is the point of having this?

No intelligent Brawlers take this seriously.
Unintelligent Brawlers are remaining unintelligent because they take this seriously.

However, on the bright side... It looks very pretty. If that matters at all.

No?

Pretty doesn't matter?

Oh ok then...

Fail

 

[Aminar]

The effort these guys are putting in is specifically to help the community. WHy is that bad, sure the charts never going to be 100% accurate, but you know what, it's better than not having one. Stop being condescending and post something useful or don't post.

As of last I checked Pit was a ? mark against Snake. I'd say that Pit is deffinitley a check. The arrows can do so much damage to snake, stop his fast approach(the Upsmash glitch), and overall hit the crap out of him. In addition Pit can deal with Snakes tilts better than most, and snake has trouble killing Pit. Side B holds snake for a long time. Snake has trouble edgegaurding a gliding Pit. Arrows stop grenades, and can even stop them right by Snake. Arrows blow up dsmash mines. Dual reflectors.