Data Bowser's Moveset Data & Discussion

[Jerodak]

So I have no idea if this is common knowledge, a thing that only occurs with Bowser or whatnot. But i've discovered that if you do a jab and walk the oppositt direction you're facing Bowser seem to ignore bits of the part where he walks super slow when you start up his walk. This seem to only work with his jab1 and jab2 and not any other grounded move. Probably not too useful, dunno if it has been mentioned before.

Both jabs have backwards momentum, I don't know why, but they do. You can also dash in place.

 

[rekt]

Both jabs have backwards momentum, I don't know why, but they do. You can also dash in place.

Any idea if its useful?

 

[Jerodak]

Any idea if its useful?

Dashing in place can bait stuff out, and you can initiate your dash attack and dash grab out it of with forward momentum, if you jab with your back to the ledge you can short hop and fast fall to the ledge to grab it. You can time the jab 1 and 2 so that you get the backwards momentum from both of them to slowly slide backwards across the stage.

To get your backwards momentum you need to do any action during the frames when Bowser is starting to draw his arm back in, this works on both jabs. If you cancel jab 1 into jab 2 then you will not slide, so it's possible to avoid this between jab 1 and jab 2 as long as you interrupt the first jab before the frames that slide you backwards. Overall, none of this is super useful I guess, the first two are just shenanigans and the last one is just for goofing off.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I've gotten a few surprise dropkicks with Stopdashing. In Rage mode this could change the playing field in a instant.

 

[MrEh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wpax41DC_Y

This is why the frame data is being delayed. We stumbled upon something huge, and had to make a video about it.

 

[B!squick]

@ MrEh That's baller. So how can we best capitalize on this? Run off BAirs? I don't think Fortress or DSmash hit below the stage. DTilt would work, but lacking a good lingering hitbox/multiple hitboxes it would require all the timing. On stage DAir is in the same boat I fear.

Wait.... Bowser Bomb.

Victory for the Mother Land!

 

[MrEh]

• Fortress and Dsmash do hit below the ledge, but only a single hit each, so it sucks massive balls. Impossible to time.
  
• Rising hit of Bowser Bomb DOES work, but the hitbox does not linger that long. Making the link very very difficult.
• Falling Bomb MAY work actually, but you may have to kill yourself and not grab the ledge for it to work. In that case, better off Dairing.
  
• Onstage Dair is near impossible, since onstage Dair does not linger. We got it to work once, it's just ridiculously hard.
• Bair actually doesn't linger that long, making it hard to use. It does work though.
• Nair works insanely well. It just sucks because it's Nair and you don't get anything off of it.

Situations here are pretty simple really. Against characters with telegraphed recoveries, and in situations where they HAVE to sweetspot the ledge in order to recover, you can just edgehog them like in Brawl and Melee. Grab the ledge, react to their recovery and punish them.

Palutena, Sheik, Zelda, Robin, Mega Man, Sonic, and Jr are notable examples.

 

[B!squick]

I meant just the falling hitbox of grounded Bomb. Any way you slice it you'll be going for a pretty hard read, so might as well make it as flashy as possible. Gotta channel your inner Brilliant Dynamite Neon.

 

[Jerodak]

• Falling Bomb MAY work actually, but you may have to kill yourself and not grab the ledge for it to work. In that case, better off Dairing.

I am pretty sure that the ledge snap bomb will definitely hit the opponent and it would linger at least a bit because he doesn't grab the ledge as soon as his butt makes contact with it, it goes up to at least his waist it seems, the only issues would be not SDing and timing the bomb so that the falling portion hits the opponent at the right moment, too early and they stall, too late and you ledge trump, though that's not such a bad alternative. Also would stage spiking with Fair work? It does linger a bit, so there'd be at least a little leeway, also what about Dtilt? Is the space between the hits too wide? And exactly how active is Ftilt, I always got the impressions that it lingered for just a little bit but maybe that's only my imagination.

 

[Flayl]

There's always Firebreath

 

[Jerodak]

There's always Firebreath

Wouldn't it be hilarious if we could do the chain jacket glitch with firebreath?

 

[B!squick]

There's always Firebreath

Is it possible to ledge snap during Firebreath? I don't know about the rest of you, but I've somehow never thought about this before.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Is it possible to ledge snap during Firebreath? I don't know about the rest of you, but I've somehow never thought about this before.

I can try it but I'm going to say no.

Edit: It's a no. You can try a Fire Breath and then Fortress back up but you won't auto snap. It isn't like Bowser Bomb or Super DDD Jump.

 

[B!squick]

Yeah, I tried it, too. I also noticed you can't use Firebreath for the AD cancel. Does this move REALLY need to be this laggy, Nintendo?

 

[MagiusNecros]

Yeah, I tried it, too. I also noticed you can't use Firebreath for the AD cancel. Does this move REALLY need to be this laggy, Nintendo?

Actually you can AC into it. Timing is tricky though. It'll come out faster but not by much.

 

[B!squick]

Actually you can AC into it. Timing is tricky though. It'll come out faster but not by much.

What? I'm talking about the air dodge cancel. What are you talking about?

 

[MagiusNecros]

What? I'm talking about the air dodge cancel. What are you talking about?

You are talking about air dodging and then transitioning into Fire Breath right?

 

[Mindles]

Thanks to this thread ,Dair Dunks are my greatest triumph card ...so satisfied with myself today with all i learned about bowser

 

[B!squick]

You are talking about air dodging and then transitioning into Fire Breath right?

Yeah. I couldn't get it to work. Either way, I don't think there's any reason to do it.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Yeah. I couldn't get it to work. Either way, I don't think there's any reason to do it.

No not really.

 

[Jerodak]

Thanks to this thread ,Dair Dunks are my greatest triumph card ...so satisfied with myself today with all i learned about bowser

That's good to hear! Bowser's Dair is definitely a very decisive attack when used correctly. It's also great to hear that this thread is helping players improve. Anyway, good luck in the rest of your development and feel free to drop in anytime if you have questions.

 

[MrEh]

From what I was testing, Bowser's Dair is hella legit against Sheik if she's forced to snap to the ledge with upB. (You can see it in the video.)

If there's a situation where Sheik MUST snap or die, you can go for the Dair and win the match. You can do it while hanging on the ledge or while standing on the ledge, whichever.


Situational? Yes. Worth? Yes.

 

[MagiusNecros]

From what I was testing, Bowser's Dair is hella legit against Sheik if she's forced to snap to the ledge with upB.

If there's a situation where Sheik MUST snap or die, you can go for the Dair and win the match. You can do it while hanging on the ledge or while standing on the ledge, whichever.

What about Zelda or Palutena since they have warp recovery moves?

 

[MrEh]

What about Zelda or Palutena since they have warp recovery moves?

It works on them as well. HOWEVER it's a lot harder to do it on them because their recoveries go a lot further, making it easier for them to avoid the ledge and land onstage. It's also much harder to react to these recoveries because they're faster. (this is a lot harder for Sheik to avoid since there are a lot of instances where Sheik has to either snap or not make it back onstage at all)

Honestly, it's hard to do it to Palutena in general because most of the time Palutena will recover with Superspeed anyway.

Going for this tech is basically going for a suicide kill. If you get Palutena or Zelda in a situation where they HAVE to snap to the ledge or die, then go for it. If you're a stock ahead, you win the game. If you're even on stocks, then hopefully you'll have them at a percent where they die before you do. Going for it while even on stocks is some risky business though. Only do it if you're confident in your read.

 

[Zigsta]

Sounds super situational but hey, when have we NOT practiced super situational tech? It's practically what all Bowser mains live for.

 

[MrEh]

^bingo

This is basically guaranteed kills if you nail the link down properly. Like grab releases, except this is 10x more insane and hilarious.

 

[Jerodak]

What about Zelda or Palutena since they have warp recovery moves?

in the case of Zelda, if you know she can warp to the stage, I think it's probably best to shield and see if she goes for the hit or not. If she does then just shield drop to Fsmash, As far as palutena is concerned, it depends on how far inside the stage she can warp to, if she can only land on the very edge anyway, it's probably still worth it to time your Dair cause she lags quite a bit when she lands during warp so you would catch her anyway and cover two options.

Then of course in the case that either character can only teleport to the ledge then focus on spiking the ledge snap.

I can't wait to start using this on Pits and villagers, there have been a lot of times that i've gotten a dunk on pit or dark pit and they just up B back to the ledge; gonna be a lot of fun turning that into a second spike. And villager probably doesn't need an explanation...

 

[MagiusNecros]

Is there even a way to track another player to where they teleport? A while ago in the 3DS version at like 17:13 you can put a reticle on the opposing player. How is this done?

 

[Zigsta]

Is there even a way to track another player to where they teleport? A while ago in the 3DS version at like 17:13 you can put a reticle on the opposing player. How is this done?

On the 3DS you can tap the opponent's icon on the touch screen to make a box appear around their character. There's no way to do this on the Wii U, though.

 

[MagiusNecros]

On the 3DS you can tap the opponent's icon on the touch screen to make a box appear around their character. There's no way to do this on the Wii U, though.

Well that blows.

 

[MrEh]

Everyone should at least learn how to do this against Sheik. Especially considering how she's poised to be one of the best, if not THE best character in the game atm.

You'd be doing yourself an injustice not learning how to spike her into oblivion.

 

[Jerodak]

Everyone should at least learn how to do this against Sheik. Especially considering how she's poised to be one of the best, if not THE best character in the game atm.

You'd be doing yourself an injustice not learning how to spike her into oblivion.

I think it's also worth it learning to use this on ZSS, her recovery options make it nearly impossible to edgeguard her reliably, this way we can just break down her recovery into "recovery to the stage" or "recovery to the ledge" and go from there.

 

[MrEh]

It's hard to abuse this against ZSS. She has many different ways to get back onstage, so this tech is very very poor against her unless you know exactly what she's doing.

 

[MrEh]

http://smashboards.com/threads/comp...rame-data-for-every-character-round-2.383550/

God bless these guys, they did a lot of my work for me!


I'll still be posting frame advantages for some stuff later on though.

 

[Jerodak]

I'll add the data for Bowser to the OP so everyone else doesn't have to go sifting around. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I'll add the data for Bowser to the OP so everyone else doesn't have to go sifting around. Thanks for the heads up.

Unless you found it already they use the JP naming so look for "Koopa".

 

[Jerodak]

@ MagiusNecros Thanks for the help, it's actually up now! Not sure what all the stuff at the end was, probably multi-hit portions of certain attacks?

 

[MagiusNecros]

@ MagiusNecros Thanks for the help, it's actually up now! Not sure what all the stuff at the end was, probably multi-hit portions of certain attacks?

If it's multi hit it's probably Bomb, Dsmash, and Fortress related.

 

[Jerodak]

Whoops, Epic fail moment. (Accidentally did a reply instead of an edit...)

 

[B!squick]

So Klaw hits on frame 17... unless you're in the air in which case it hits on frame 8.

... Is there a point to grounded Klaw that I'm just not seeing?

Also, was not expecting FAir to be such a clear cut slowest aerial (DAir aside). Seems if you have the option there's no reason to use FAir over BAir or any other aerial really.