Social Bowser's Castle

[Big Sean]

I've been missing some up + b OOS that used to be guaranteed. I'm sure it will be a lot more noticeable offline against people who buffer options out aerials.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

Does the sheild change affect powershields or only normal shields?

 

[Kooky Koopa]

Big Sean Fair enough. I haven't played in my local since the patch but I'll see how things go there in an offline environment. But just a moment ago I was able to shield and punish Villager as I had done before.

Grizzlpaw It's only on regular shields I believe. Perfect shields are still perfect shields.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Not sure if anything changed but Fire Roar takes 20 seconds to recharge now.

I think it was 40 seconds before but not sure.

So far I am still on Team Fire Shot.

 

[Jerodak]

It was always 20 seconds.

 

[MagiusNecros]

It was always 20 seconds.

Wasn't sure. But if anyone didn't know well there you go.

The cooldown for a potential 23% damage is pathetic.

 

[Jerodak]

Anyway, perfect parry apparently became more important and Bowser has great pparry options, as well as decent frame trap options. Think this might mean a stealth buff?

 

[MagiusNecros]

Helps Bowser more then it hurts him.

Makes Fire Shot a bit safer due to increased shield stun.

Probably standard breath as well.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

It gets worse for Fire Roar. Reports are coming in about projectile hitlag modifiers now making a difference with shieldlag. Remember that in the case of projectiles, only the defender suffers shieldlag, and then shieldstun. This sets them apart from regular moves where both attacker and defender suffer shieldlag. And Fire Roar has 0.5 hitlag. The move should deal more shieldstun like every other move in the game post-patch, but the lesser shieldlag should offset that by a large amount. Fire Roar may actually be easier to escape from block after this patch.

Fire Breath and Fire Shot have no hitlag modifiers, so shieldlag is unchanged. On Pre-patch, it's trivially easy to dodge roll backward out of a stream of Fire Breath. Can anybody still do this post patch? You could even dodge roll forward behind Bowser, if you were in close enough proximity to get past the stream before becoming vulnerable again.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I feel like Fire Roar should have ******** wind push on a opponent or just pop shields(heavy shield damage people) like you just roared in their face. Which you know would be amazing.

I mean I could support it with the whole you can't roar again for a whole 20 seconds.

Sheik has crap like Penetrating Needles that do 3/4 Shield damage so...

 

[Kooky Koopa]

Anyway, perfect parry apparently became more important and Bowser has great pparry options, as well as decent frame trap options. Think this might mean a stealth buff?

I would say so. Not a huge one but certainly a helpful one. It's kind of nice how with the new system, the importance of perfect shielding and parrying is far more emphasized. I've found perfect parrying with jab and f-tilt pretty helpful.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Sheik has crap like Penetrating Needles that do 3/4 Shield damage so...

It's important.

 

[Cassius.]

3rd in Singles, 2nd in teams. Bowser/Sheik. All Bowser in pools and some in the final bracket.

I lost to ZSS twice lol

 

[KuroganeHammer]

ZSS is literally Armageddon.

 

[S_B]

I wish perfect shielding didn't cause you to lose any momentum while running. Yes, you can immediately mash run again after perfect shielding, but it would be so much better if you just literally never had to release the control stick...

This would give Bowser one of the best approaches in the game against projectiles, due to his runspeed.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I wish perfect shielding didn't cause you to lose any momentum while running. Yes, you can immediately mash run again after perfect shielding, but it would be so much better if you just literally never had to release the control stick...

This would give Bowser one of the best approaches in the game against projectiles, due to his runspeed.

Main issue with this is how rolling was implemented into both shields and rolls being mapped to the same button. If we could make rolls mapped to one button and shields to another I'd be just peachy.

 

[S_B]

Main issue with this is how rolling was implemented into both shields and rolls being mapped to the same button. If we could make rolls mapped to one button and shields to another I'd be just peachy.

In this case, you wouldn't be rolling because you're still just holding the same direction. Powershielding something, dropping shield and immediately running IS definitely possible, it just costs you some momentum.

 

[Cassius.]

yeah so I think for the time being I'm going to play Sheik a bit more to bring her up to a consistent level of comfortability where my Bowser is at. This patch didn't bring anything game-changing, and playing on 1.1.1 this weekend didn't seem to affect my punish game with Bowser too much aside from ZSS NAir being a ****ing problem now. I was still able to Bowser Bomb, side-b and up-b most things.

There are still points where I struggle in neutral with Sheik simply because there are just certain things that Bowser doesn't have access to, so I need to either play this game more...which won't happen, or play Sheik more frequently when I do play.

She seems to be the only character I'm losing to now that's not named Sheik, and I'm not using Bowser against ZSS anymore, so I have to get it cracking. I've grinded out that MU with Bowser too much and I don't see anything changing.

 

[Jerodak]

Is her neutral air safe vs perfect shields? How safe is it against regular shields?

 

[Cassius.]

It feels like it's a hell of a lot safer on regular shields now because it's an electric attack. I think those have more shield stun or something. I have no idea about perfect shields, it seems about the same in that regard. But that's on top of the fact that she has a 1 frame jab. CQC against her is just stupid. I have to bank on perfect shields or hitting her before the NAir comes out, which is harder to do as Bowser, but pretty straightforward as Sheik

There are obvious alternatives to dealing with NAir, i.e. Positioning around it etc but that's just the hassle of playing Bowser against that, which I'm not doing anymore.

The Pikachu MU is probably even more stupid for the same reason (electric attacks have some weird interaction with shields), I'm assuming quick attack is safer than it was before--which isn't saying much considering the applications of the move

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

It feels like it's a hell of a lot safer on regular shields now because it's an electric attack. I think those have more shield stun or something. On top of the fact that she has a 1 frame jab. CQC is just stupid. I have to bank on perfect shields or hitting her before the NAir comes out, which is harder to do as Bowser, but pretty straightforward as Sheik

Her Nair used to give her 50% more shieldlag than the defender because of the innate hitlag modifier on electric attacks. Now, that dumb shieldlag quirk has been booted. The shieldlag suffered by attacker and defender has been equalized in the patch, in addition to the global shieldstun increase. In addition, ZSS's Nair is kind of hard not to space due to its design. Her short hop height places her high enough to be over pokes, but low enough to connect with grounded targets from outside shieldgrabbing range.

All in all, ZSS may shoot up to our biggest top tier threat. I don't see Sheik benefitting very much at all from the shield changes, and ZSS is a character where every stage pick felt disadvantageous for Bowser. We don't want platforms since it gives her Uair x8 into Up B, and we don't want FD because her paralyzer makes us want to jump, and platforms make for good protection when she goes for a flip jump kick after a successful bury or stun.

 

[KingKong_ad]

Hello everyone! I have now free time to spend. So I decided to start playing competitively at smash again. I started last wednesday playing bowser in smash 4. ( Even if I was playing sometimes with friends, I was using zelda) I went to a weekly tourney in my area the day after and I placed 7th out of 57 with bowser. Lets see what I can do this time with more pratice

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Hello everyone! I have now free time to spend. So I decided to start playing competitively at smash. I started last wednesday playing bowser in smash 4. ( Even if I was playing sometimes with friends, I was using zelda) I went to a weekly tourney in my area the day after and I placed 7th out of 57 with bowser. Lets see what I can do this time with more pratice

Not bad for a day's worth of practice. Be sure to hit us up for the details on Bowser's moves and tech. Have you tried jab 1 into other moves like Dtilt or dash grab? Punishing opponents with Bowser Bomb? How about his pivot grab?

 

[KingKong_ad]

I played brawl competitively and Im well aware of jab 1 into many things. And of course im punishing a lot with bowser bomb where it is guaranted. Oh yeah I abused that pivot grab.... Btw, english is NOT my first language, so excuse my grammatical errors.

 

[Jerodak]

KingKong_ad welcome back.

 

[Cassius.]

YO DAVID IS ALIVE?!?!

We're going to put Bowser on the map.

I have hella tech to share with you dude. Hit me up. Or you could read the threads too lol

 

[KingKong_ad]

We need to !!!! Tell me anything I need to !!!

 

[Hitman JT]

Shieldstun nerf is a massive pain in the ass. No more OOS up B punishes on a lot of stuff and more characters can run all over him now.

 

[Jerodak]

Hitman JT Perfect Parry should resolve any issues created by the shield stun increase.

On the other hand, jab 1 is crazy safe on shields now (-10 vs oos and -3 vs shield drop, which should be the only way to punish you if you're spacing properly and they don't perfect shield.) You are great at jab spacing, so your play style just got a buff. Technically, jab might even be just -2 or -1 on block since the very very tip hits with a later hitbox. Though that means your start up is technically 1-2 frames higher as a result.

Also, dtilt benefits greatly, it's now a true blockstring with both hits, making it an infinitely better shield breaker and corner pressure tool vs shields. Also, as more players start using perfect parry, dtilt should become even more useful as a deadly frame trap, and down b does as well if you want to go hard with the read.

 

[Cassius.]

Really? I haven't had that much of an issue to be honest. Aside from my lamenting about ZSS (and Pikachu) but we have no business dealing with that MU anyway

And what is perfect parrying again? It's just buffering an attack out of a perfect shield, right? That might not be it. Anyway..

I know it's something really simple that I've been doing for years but that name is so corny lol

 

[Hitman JT]

Hitman JT Perfect Parry should resolve any issues created by the shield stun increase.

...Do you even realize what you're suggesting?

 

[Jerodak]

Cassius. Technically yeah, but more specifically, you're option selecting using the shield stun differences between regular and perfect shields to determine what comes out.

The nickname isn't so bad, I've heard worse, at least.

Hitman JT I got a little over excited and my wording really sucked. To make things absolutely clear, I'm not trying to call you out or anything, just providing a possible solution. Now will your perfect shield ratio be 1:1? Probably not, but adding the OS to your arsenal might help you punish Oos more consistently, perhaps even more optimally and there shouldn't be any glaring drawbacks.

 

[MrEh]

The King is back boys.

 

[SHHedgehog]

I guess I should still introduce myself…?

Well, Hi .w. I'm S-H-Hedgehog (Just call me SH though…or my furry name, Muto) And I'v been a long time Bowser main throughout any Smash game he's in wether it be Brawl, Smash 4, and even Smash Flash 2. (When he's out that is) I'm a massive shy guy, so I do have some trouble speaking, but get to know me and I think i'm fun to be around. Everything I know about Bowser so far is purely self taught. From frame 1 jabs > other attacks to waveslashing. There are no locals in my area that I can get to. Nobody around seems to be interested in Smash as much as me if at all, so I have no choice but to stick to online play to aquire ANY sort of matchup or tournament knowledge…Yet I still don't know what i'm doing. I just need help improving on what I know and what do I NEED to know? The treads here are helpful, but weren't enough for me for some reason. So I think I just gotta find other Bowser players and maybe i'll learn something, so here I am.

I hope I can make a name for myself some day in Smash 4 (my main game), and I hope I don't become bothersome here…

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

SHHedgehog Welcome. Bowser's all about the basics. If you're ever confused, I recommend reviewing this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYWXCTKKDV0

For optimization, feel free to keep track of the Moveset Thread, MU Thread, and the Video Thread. Any further questions about where to start, drop them here or in the Q&A Thread, no problem. Enjoy your stay.

 

[KingKong_ad]

I would like to know if there is a thread with information about bowsercide. In which stage, both characters die at the same time and which character doesnt survive even if they can jump out of it. If nobody did the research, Ill do it. I love to suicide my first stock with the second stock of my opponent but sometimes I dont do it since im not sure if they can comeback.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I would like to know if there is a thread with information about bowsercide. In which stage, both characters die at the same time and which character doesnt survive even if they can jump out of it. If nobody did the research, Ill do it. I love to suicide my first stock with the second stock of my opponent but sometimes I dont do it since im not sure if they can comeback.

Regarding which characters can make it back to the ledge after being released from Bowsercide, I made this thread a while back. The information we have on stages is unreliable, as we have since learned that it's based on Bowser's vertical position upon grabbing an opponent. Grabbing from the ground and bowserciding on FD, for example, always kills both characters at once. But if you air grabbed an opponent or grabbed them while on a platform, there's no way to know if they will be released or not. A coin flip.

 

[KingKong_ad]

Thanks a lot this is gold information for me!

 

[B-Black]

Hello guys, I woud like to introduce myself.
My username's B-Black: it is a reference of a Donald Duck's comic.
I'm 19, russian, living in France in 2002.
I play SSB competitively since SSB4 for 3DS was released.
My main is (of course) Bowser because I like how the character was made in SMB's history and how big its improvement is, Brawl to now.
My main goal is to be the best Bowser in France. And actually, there's a few Bowser players here; so it's time to shine!
Little by little, I've progressed, learning many techniques, thanks to many french guys in our group, in Facebook.
If I'm here, it's to discuss about Bowser, and how to improve its playstyle (mine is highly defensive).

Hope I'll get better here!

 

[Big Sean]

Regarding which characters can make it back to the ledge after being released from Bowsercide, I made this thread a while back. The information we have on stages is unreliable, as we have since learned that it's based on Bowser's vertical position upon grabbing an opponent. Grabbing from the ground and bowserciding on FD, for example, always kills both characters at once. But if you air grabbed an opponent or grabbed them while on a platform, there's no way to know if they will be released or not. A coin flip.

The situation is actually totally different for 1.1.1. We don't have exact data yet but smashville now can cause losses. Duck Hunt can also cause ties. It may be character dependent. It may be percent dependent. It may be distance dependent. I honestly have no idea. It needs a lot of testing.