Social Bowser's Castle

[Cronoc]

Cronoc

It's because when your shield is hit, and you perfect shield, the shield drops faster because you bypass the frames where shield Is forced to stay up before it's released, and the shield release animation. So the shield is down by the time the game reads your a or b input and gives you an a or b move instead of grab, roll, or spotdodge.

I get what's supposed to happen, I'm just unclear on whether I'm doing it right. Perfect shielding into a hit is easy enough, shield grabbing is easy too, but the timing for perfect shielding into letting the game make the choice for me between grab and attack is unclear to me. I'm trying it out with a CPU Mario right now and I know how to perfect shield attack, and of course to shield grab, but they always happen because I want them to, not because I set it up for the game to make the option select for me. Whatever, it's no big deal.

 

[Jerodak]

What are your inputs?

 

[Cronoc]

Well like the video says I'm holding shield and pressing A just before letting go on hit, or at least trying to. I'm also holding up so a utilt will come out. Hard to say if I'm finding that sweet spot for the option select. It doesn't seem like it.

In other news, Bowser got another shout-out from Zero in his most recent video on Roy, where he says Roy is maybe high tier but in the current meta mid-tier. In regards to him being mid tier: "He's better than Bowser and Duck Hunt and all these characters." Roy may be alright due his ridiculous sweet spots, and may be better than Bowser, but I would say Bowser has a pretty good matchup against him. Since I learned how vulnerable he is to Bowser's pivot grab I haven't had any trouble with the Roys I've fought. Marth and Lucina are harder matchups, even if they're considered not as good.

 

[Jerodak]

You don't want to time the inputs to the hit except for the perfect shield. Otherwise it's not an option select since you would be changing the inputs each time. Also, make sure you release shield right about when you hit a, otherwise grabs always come out, no matter what.

Finally, I recommend pikachu or villager for practice, they seem more willing to spam, and don't waste time caping or fludding.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Well like the video says I'm holding shield and pressing A just before letting go on hit, or at least trying to. I'm also holding up so a utilt will come out. Hard to say if I'm finding that sweet spot for the option select. It doesn't seem like it.

In other news, Bowser got another shout-out from Zero in his most recent video on Roy, where he says Roy is maybe high tier but in the current meta mid-tier. In regards to him being mid tier: "He's better than Bowser and Duck Hunt and all these characters." Roy may be alright due his ridiculous sweet spots, and may be better than Bowser, but I would say Bowser has a pretty good matchup against him. Since I learned how vulnerable he is to Bowser's pivot grab I haven't had any trouble with the Roys I've fought. Marth and Lucina are harder matchups, even if they're considered not as good.

ZeRo probaly means Roy has more favorable matchups then Bowser or others in mid tier.

And ZeRo actually likes Roy since you can be aggressive and speedy with him.

Marth and Lucina are harder for Bowser because they can space us out. Roy prefers to be close.

And SO DO WE.

 

[MrEh]

Bowser has always done ok against characters with linear air approaches.

Up angled Ftilt is still super good against Marth and Lucina too. (not Ike though, for obvious reasons)

 

[Cronoc]

You don't want to time the inputs to the hit except for the perfect shield. Otherwise it's not an option select since you would be changing the inputs each time. Also, make sure you release shield right about when you hit a, otherwise grabs always come out, no matter what.

Finally, I recommend pikachu or villager for practice, they seem more willing to spam, and don't waste time caping or fludding.

I'll work on this some more tomorrow, thanks.

ZeRo probably means Roy has more favorable matchups then Bowser or others in mid tier.

And ZeRo actually likes Roy since you can be aggressive and speedy with him.

Marth and Lucina are harder for Bowser because they can space us out. Roy prefers to be close.

And SO DO WE.

Ha I know what he means, I just found it ironic that the character Zero listed as being worse than Roy has a good matchup against him. Duck Hunt Dog probably does too... though I don't really know.

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

Remember when I said I'm going to a tournament?
Strike that. Free for all Smash with items.
I'm upset.

 

[a stray cat]

Remember when I said I'm going to a tournament?
Strike that. Free for all Smash with items.
I'm upset.

Time to host your your own then!

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Time to host your your own then!

WITH BLACKJACK AND HOOKERS

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

That EXACT joke was told during the tournament, holy crap.

But to tell you how hectic it was, I got into a three way sudden death during one of the last few rounds and lost.
I was the last of the three Bowsers to get knocked out though, so I get to show off about that. >.>

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I lost to 2 villagers in a row last monthly.

The pain is real for me.

I missed this post, but this MU is horrible if you aren't abnormally good at powershielding things.

 

[Dre89]

Yo has anyone here fooled around with Bowser in Skylanders? I've played with him a little bit, seems worse than DK because he's slow and his kit doesn't have as much utility.

I wish Smash Bowser was like Skylander Bowser though

 

[Hitman JT]

I refuse to touch Skylanders because of what they did to Spyro.

 

[Jerodak]

How does one land in the sky?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I refuse to touch Skylanders because of what they did to Spyro.

RIP my ****ing childhood

 

[MagiusNecros]

I refuse to touch Skylanders because of what they did to Spyro.

You also shouldn't touch it because of the price and also because Skylanders is IMO hot garbage.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

That mario maker stage is slated for the 30th, which means 29th for us in the west. And since they've never given us a new piece of content without balance updates,I'd better remember to make sure my Wii U doesn't get it. I always spend patch day helping spot the changes.

What do you guys think will come from the next update? Maybe they'll tone down those top tier monsters, or give some untouched characters like Samus and Dedede some love. Dunno what they could do with Bowser at this point. Their first update to Bowser may have created the Bowsercide glitch, but the tweaks to moves thus far have felt like good protection money. Protection Money. From us.

I was thinking of Bowser's aerial fortress the other day, and I'd like to see that 10% hit at the start get moved to the end of the attack. I know some people like that being at the start, since you can air-clash with some moves like Hard Knuckle and Villager Fsmash while recovering, but who really wants to rely on a two frame window like that? If Fortress properly launched people, then I could make it past them to the ledge without getting instantly trumped back out. It's annoying that a move with 35% damage potential only regularly deals 1 or 2%, so I'd be open to any means of making the move more dangerous to attempt edgeguarding.

 

[Cassius.]

I want to be that guy and say that I doubt anything will happen, but with Smash 4's hefty development in the past few months, I'm not so sure.

Fingers crossed for (more) useful Bowser changes. If we only get a knockback angle change again, I will flip a table.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I want to be that guy and say that I doubt anything will happen, but with Smash 4's hefty development in the past few months, I'm not so sure.

Fingers crossed for (more) useful Bowser changes. If we only get a knockback angle change again, I will flip a table.

Flying Slam a table. Would love to see that.

 

[S_B]

Flying Slam a table. Would love to see that.

Like a table appears under Bowser as he's descending with his victim? I love it...

...And an airhorn plays as he smashes the table, of course.

I'm also hoping for some tweaks. More than buffs to Bowser, I'd like it if they toned down the high tiers as well... (and maybe maybe reverse Up+B snap, FFS...).

 

[Jerodak]

We'll see, definitely looking forward to finding out. Maybe there will be patch notes this time.

 

[Cassius.]

MLG_MVG_FLYING_SWAGSLAM.png

extremely doubtful on patch notes tbh

 

[MagiusNecros]

Make Dthrow bury pls.

So buff much heavy.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

We'll see, definitely looking forward to finding out. Maybe there will be patch notes this time.

If they did, I'd be out of a job. Spending my days doing research on Bowser's jab. Yick.

I do get some pleasure in just having an overview of changes. Sometimes they get pretty nuanced in a way I wouldn't have thought of. Like shaving 5 frames of landlag off of G&W's Bair, letting him use the move in tandem with his excellent air speed as a wall of pain with less danger of being punished. Or giving Luigi a new Dtilt angle that can jab lock and trip the opponent on the same patch that they increased the endlag of fireballs. And I'm very appreciative of all the characters that now have grab games. Even if it knocked Bowser off his pedestal of being the best heavy of Smash 4 now that Charizard and Donkey Kong can kill off a grab. For the longest time, it felt like Smash 4 characters had uniformly bad throw options if you weren't Diddy or a Mario Brother. Now even Robin and Link can get mileage out of the grab.

 

[S_B]

We'll see, definitely looking forward to finding out. Maybe there will be patch notes this time.

I think we'll get the flying slam table before we get patch notes...

 

[Jerodak]

"Various game play changes." or "Made tweaks to improve the experience. " constitutes an overview? I mean, I guess you're technically right, but I feel like all that's really being accomplished by a lack of patch notes is a lot of needless ambiguity.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

"Various game play changes." or "Made tweaks to improve the experience. " constitutes an overview? I mean, I guess you're technically right, but I feel like all that's really being accomplished by a lack of patch notes is a lot of needless ambiguity.

Oh, but what I meant was the overview we come up with on Smashboards for every patch. Not the small blurb that Nintendo provides. They want people to know about what new stages, characters, and mii skins you could buy. The patch notes threads are a valiant community effort on the surface and fascinating to the game's player base. You never know how the game will change. Like a box of chocolates, only there aren't descriptions of each chocolate on the bottom of the box to ruin the metaphor. And I believe since 1.06, the Mewtwo update, we've been getting additions of characters, stages, or modes (tournament mode) along with our balance updates on a basis of 1.5 to 2 months. With the time between the last update and this one being the longest at precisely two months. It's a good standard for the players to stay interested, and a large enough amount of time for them to gather more of their precious data from online matches and (debatably) national tournaments in order to make informed decisions.

 

[Jerodak]

Oh, but what I meant was the overview we come up with on Smashboards for every patch. Not the small blurb that Nintendo provides.

Oh, I apologize for jumping to conclusions.

 

[Cassius.]

if i could be completely real, i'd be more satisfied if they gave bowser a legitimate double jump animation before anything else.

there's a regional in upstate NY coming up this weekend; same weekend as the big house. at the last one i went to a few months ago, i got 5th with all bowser.

now i actually know how to play smash 4 bowser (and much better characters), so we'll see how i do.

 

[MrEh]

Dash Slash to Nair boys.

The dream is here. 32%.

 

[_Rated D.R.K_]

N A I R B O Y S

 

[MagiusNecros]

I feel like Fire Shot is even more annoying now.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm unhappy with the shieldstun changes.

 

[ZorkThedork]

Bowser can no longer up-b OoS and get punishes on lots of moves now. very sad.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Yeah, everybody's punish game got shot by the shieldstun increase. But not taking on tons of damage for having any move blocked is definitely appealing too. Looking at older notes and examples people are bringing forward now, every one of our moves should feel noticeably safer to use on shield. Especially if we're well spaced to be out of range from the garden variety shield grab. Jab should be 3 frames safer, Fair should be 5 frames safer, and the difference should only increase as you reach Bowser's stronger attacks. I'm casually optimistic about how heavies will be effected by this change, but I don't think Bowser is suddenly at a higher tier because of it, since every other character, even weak hitters like Sheik, are improved in this regard, while also being hindered in terms of punishing moves.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

It's a universal change but I hate it regardless

 

[MagiusNecros]

Yeah not a fan. Getting hit by stupid **** because of it.

 

[Jerodak]

I really feel like N-air, b-air, f-air, f-tilt, jab, d-tilt and maybe air fortress might be the moves to look at.

I highly doubt we have a guaranteed shield break off of down b and I'm personally fine with that actually. However, this may likely mean tighter frame traps though, and perhaps more reliable shield break set-ups.

 

[Kooky Koopa]

I'm not sure if I'm a minority here but I am still quite capable of punishing moves with OoS up-b and other defensive options despite the shield changes. Perhaps I haven't fought certain characters you guys have but the only two incidents I noticed anything significant was in 2v2s where up to two people may be striking my shield at the same time and Kirby's d-air. Otherwise I can still punish pretty effectively as I used to and similarly I've seen my opponents still capable of reacting as before when I strike theirs. Even in the Kirby's case I was still able to time an OoS up-b punish.

I have seen the videos of Shulk's Buster and Lucario's aura sphere so I'm not saying it hasn't had a big effect and I have noticed some difference in some cases but so far I can still play as I had done so before.