Bidoof Academy - Pokémon Trainer Q+A Thread

[Supreme Dirt]

So, we were having a discussion on the Ganon chat regarding Charizard. We came to the conclusion that it is not only an incredibly easy matchup for us, it might even be a 55:45 Ganondorf's favour. Given, this would mostly be a theory exercise as a PT main will always have the other 2, but what exactly can you do to avoid the Gerudo techchase? We walk back just out of range of your get-up attack, and we are in range to Gerudo again regardless of what you do.

In theory, we land a Gerudo, you lose a stock. From my testing, you have only 3 moves that I can't Gerudo you during: FAir, Flame Breath, and Rock Smash.

Opinions of some PTs who have actually played against good Ganons would be appreciated. Comments of "lol, Ganondorf" will be ignored.

 

[Zigsta]

I've played PX's Ganondorf PLENTY of times, and Charizard still has an advantage over Ganon. Charizard doesn't have a good getup, but Ganon still has to predict Charizard to land another side B. It's not broken in the MU at all.

 

[T-block]

I beat Kosk in pools back in July 09, although he never was one to Gerudo chain =P Charizard was the most effective pokemon.

I've never had anyone make me feel that it was truly infinite. Mixing instant get-up attacks with delayed normal get-ups has been enough to make them mess up. Have you guys looked at the frame data? My guess is that it either requires absurd reaction time, or a bit of prediction. Even if it were possible to cover every option, we could always just roll towards the ledge every time and then eventually your Gerudo will just place us on the ledge, no?

Also, landing the side-b isn't easy either =P Spot-dodgeable on reaction, and easily punished by a grab or worse if you miss. I know people make mistakes, but still...

 

[CoonTail]

Honestly I don't understand how it's a 55:45 in ganon's favor at all with the guerdo chain. As earlier stated landing that first off is not very simple against a smart zard....We can also wavebounce or space Flamethrowers to keep you at bay.

Zard can hit ganon with a B-air or f-air and basically come close to insta gimping him. Lets not talk about getting D-air'd. Could you explain to us a little bit more about how the Ganon boards came up with a 55:45 in Ganon's favor.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

ganondorf is so bad, ive literally played pkmn trainer vs ganondorf matches where im playing with 1 hand and pkmn trainer still won every time xD

 

[majora_787]

I figured I would come over to the PT boards and ask this real quick...

WHY is PT counted as one character?

PT is put by himself in matchup stuff, character lists, and all that stuff. But he has three unique characters within him, each one with its own strengths and weaknesses.

His system is no different from Zelda's, yet Zelda and Sheik are considered different characters.

Is there a real reason for that?

 

[Zigsta]

If Zelda dies, you don't automatically switch to Shiek.

No matter how much you hate using Ivysaur, for example, you'll have to deal with him eventually.

 

[majora_787]

Is that really the only reason? =\ I mean, I'm sure you could just switch back to who you were using to begin with...

 

[Zigsta]

You can, but switching blindly leads to getting punished. With Zelda/Shiek, if you're not good with one of them, you don't have to use that character at all--you don't even need to switch to the other one mid-fight.

 

[majora_787]

You can, but switching blindly leads to getting punished. With Zelda/Shiek, if you're not good with one of them, you don't have to use that character at all--you don't even need to switch to the other one mid-fight.

Well, that makes sense I guess, since you ARE kind of forced to switch otherwise you get affected negatively... Alright, that answers my question, thanks.

 

[Tesh]

Does partially charging water gun cause extra fatigue? Like if I short hop charge a little and airdodge a couple of times, does it takes off 1 second, several or none?

 

[Steeler]

it's 1 second off per charge, however long.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

How much does watergun ****?


A lot.

 

[Zigsta]

typh and I discussed the usefulness of Water Gun a few weeks back. He's not a fan of it, but I dig it.

Why just yesterday I Water Gunned a Pikachu's Skull Bash, causing him to lag long enough for me to KO him with a fair.

 

[Bomber7]

Based on observation, sometimes all you need is just a distraction to get your opponent to react and then punish. I got Zigsta many times at Battle for the South II by watergunning his bowser when he approached me, he would shield it and then I would follow up by grabbing him and doing whatever else I chose to do next.

 

[T-block]

I used to Water Gun > Dash Attack for a while... no idea why lol

It was working consistently for a while though.

 

[Zigsta]

Granted, I was trying to see how fast Bowser could shield Water Gun and then counterattack since we were just playing friendlies. At best, you might be able to expect one grab from a grounded Water Gun. Most people would be cool with just getting pushed back.

 

[Bomber7]

it all depends on the person and or level of play. Everyone will react differently and thus you must act accordingly.

 

[Zigsta]

Right. I'm just saying don't expect much results in high-level tournament play.

 

[Bomber7]

well based on that last tourny, I was able to get away with alot of watergunning there.

 

[Zigsta]

There was only a handful of high-level competitive Smashers there, sadly.

 

[Bomber7]

which is why I was lucky enough to have made 7th quite frankly. I had a shot at at 5th or 6th but blew it but I'm just johnning lol. But nonetheless. Water gun has its purpose.

 

[Mister Eric]

Hellu Pokémon Trainer Boards, you might be seeing me a lot here in the next little while asking questions about your character and how they perform on a certain stage.
Character boards seem to cycle through incomplete MU threads to new ones in hope to update them and finally complete them. This is the R.O.B. Boards attempt at completing a sufficient stage-discussion thread and I'm going to try my best to get accurate and thorough information, but I'll need your help. This will be the only question with an introductory. I just wanted to say hello and let you know that if you guys need info on anything for R.O.B. don't hesitate asking. ^_^

Anywho!

Q: How does Pokémon Trainer fair off on Delfino Plaza in general and against R.O.B.. Why is it good or bad? What can Pokémon Trainer abuse and what might possibly annoy you that R.O.B. can do on this stage? On a scale of 1 - 10, what do you see Pokémon Trainer's chances of doing well on this stage against R.O.B. 1 being the worst for you 10 being the best.

thanks guys =]
<beep3

 

[T-block]

Hmm...that's a very specific question o.o

Delfino is a pretty average stage for PT... nothing bad for PT, but nothing amazing either. We would probably not take any character that can CG Squirtle there, but ROB can't regrab, so that's not a problem. I think overall the water favours us, unless ROB really likes water for some reason unknown to me.

 

[Steeler]

all i know is i love to get squirtle jab kills off the walkoffs.

 

[DanGR]

Question: What are PT's matchups against NickRiddle, Pikachu, Xyro, and D3?

I'm looking for generalizations- not matchup ratios.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Question: What are PT's matchups against NickRiddle, Pikachu, Xyro, and D3?

I'm looking for generalizations- not matchup ratios.

NickRiddle is good at jumping around you, which makes for good trouble against PT. Be patient and Squirtle will help you in your time of need. Just pick the right blind spots and don't get greedy.

Pikachu is good at jumping around you, which makes for good trouble against PT. Be patient and Squirtle will help you in your time of need, as well as Charizard's nice range. Don't run into F-Smash, avoid the N-Air, and you'll live for a while.

Xyro doesn't know how to fight Pokémon Trainer, or Pokémon Trainer does quite a number on Samus. I'm still waiting for him to upload the videos where I consistently two-stock him.

Against Dedede, you just have to play smart, as would any character without an exceptionally great ground game and/or projectile (like Falco). Squirtle has the ability to camp Dedede out, combos him to death, and edgeguards him with little trouble, but it can be difficult to get in if you don't wait your turn.

Ivysaur's matchup with Dedede isn't that bad as long as you have platforms, I'm convinced; it's harder to edgeguard Ivysaur with Dedede than you might think, and if you have platforms, Ivysaur can keep proper spacing and turn the matchup into close to even, I think.

Charizard's matchup with Dedede isn't that bad as long as you don't rush in. Too many times will you find yourself spot-dodged, pivot grabbed, or even rolled around. Keep a safe distance from him and attack with B-Air, Flamethrower, and the occasional grab. You can edgeguard him fairly well, and if he tries to come from above, U-Air juggles rather well. This one is definitely in Dedede's advantage, but you can camp him fairly well if you choose to. It's far from unwinnable for Charizard.

 

[DanGR]

Thanks.

NickRiddle is good at jumping around you, which makes for good trouble against PT. Be patient and Squirtle will help you in your time of need.

Pikachu is good at jumping around you, which makes for good trouble against PT. Be patient and Squirtle will help you in your time of need

I c wut you did thar.

 

[Mister Eric]

Thanks a beepton T-Block and Steeler<beep3
If anyone else have something to add, please feel free =]
It would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Steeler]

uh i'd say most, if not all of the transformations on delfino favor rob a bit while the platform that carries you everywhere favors pt a bit.

 

[Ingoro]

Fellow PT's, Does anyone know what Ivysaur does when she get's knocked off the stage, fires off leaves in the oppisite direction of the stage to gain distance? I know this question might be a little vague but I've seen Reflex gaining quite some distance with Ivysaur with being knocked off the stage and him recovering trough firing those razor leaves away from the stage. I'm really curious if anyone else besides Reflex uses this in competiteve play, I would gladly learn how to do it and learn when to use it.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Fellow PT's, Does anyone know what Ivysaur does when she get's knocked off the stage, fires off leaves in the oppisite direction of the stage to gain distance? I know this question might be a little vague but I've seen Reflex gaining quite some distance with Ivysaur with being knocked off the stage and him recovering trough firing those razor leaves away from the stage. I'm really curious if anyone else besides Reflex uses this in competiteve play, I would gladly learn how to do it and learn when to use it.

You don't gain distance from throwing Razor Leaf in the opposite direction (in fact, it actually hurts a little, since you need to hold away from the stage in order to use it unless you B-Stick). The reason it's so useful is because it allows you to stop opponents from edgeguarding you, because being turned around lets you use B-Air toward the stage, and B-Air is super effective at preventing most characters from edgeguarding.

 

[Ingoro]

You don't gain distance from throwing Razor Leaf in the opposite direction (in fact, it actually hurts a little, since you need to hold away from the stage in order to use it unless you B-Stick). The reason it's so useful is because it allows you to stop opponents from edgeguarding you, because being turned around lets you use B-Air toward the stage, and B-Air is super effective at preventing most characters from edgeguarding.

Would you consider this a AT? I'm wondering if this can be used for Ivy to pressure opponents off stage using this ability. What's your opinion about it? I'm a bit confused of how it is performed to be honest, I might not been fully up to date with the specials changing your movement. ( thanks for the superquick reply btw )

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Would you consider this a AT? I'm wondering if this can be used for Ivy to pressure opponents off stage using this ability. What's your opinion about it? I'm a bit confused of how it is performed to be honest, I might not been fully up to date with the specials changing your movement. ( thanks for the superquick reply btw )

It's not really an AT, so much as it is an original, intelligent use of the move. If a character doesn't have multiple mid-air jumps, like Charizard or King Dedede, they cannot turn themselves around once in the air (Marth's B-Air is an exception to the rule) unless they use a B move.

Most character don't care about it, since they usually have many great tools to keep opponents away, or they don't have an overly good one regardless of what direction they face. Ivysaur happens to have a slow F-Air without much ability to keep people out, but a fantastic B-Air that will save you from being edgeguarded many a time. I don't really see any more use for it than that. If Squirtle's F-Air and B-Air were more different from each other, there might be a reason to charge/cancel Water Gun for it, but, eh.

Just hold away from the stage and Razor Leaf. That's really all there is to it.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

So mad wavebounced leaf does ****tt

 

[Magik0722]

Xyro,

Look up Magik vs Xyro on youtube

 

[Xyro77]

Question: What are PT's matchups against NickRiddle, Pikachu, Xyro, and D3?

I'm looking for generalizations- not matchup ratios.

i beat all PTs cept reflex. He/Squirtle is really really good.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

You didnt beat me or AD

 

[TheReflexWonder]

i beat all PTs cept reflex. He/Squirtle is really really good.

Needs more Size 7 Lime text.

 

[CHOMPY]

You haven't seen my Charizard, yet!