Bidoof Academy - Pokémon Trainer Q+A Thread

[Kith]

This is true

 

[Steeler]

you are both right to some extent...it just depends on the player, really. usually i'd rather fthrow though, it's very fast and can lead into **** on characters with bad blindspots.

i've been thinking about making a thing listing the percents where the pokemon's uthrows (and ivy's dthrow i guess) will put the opponent right onto a platform when you do it (they barely pass the platform and then fall right on top of it), basically forcing them into a techchase situation right above you...which is really ****. it's a fairly minor thing but idk. i like to do it, especially with wario. ivysaur has a pretty similar vertical spacing game with the uairs (although ivy can only try it once...) and bullet seed kind of like a fart that doesn't kill. and nair of course. it can net charizard a free rock smash and squirtle...a uair chain/dair/maybe jab lock setup depending on DI??

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

Hey, can one of you guys tell me what posotive MUs Ivysaur has?

 

[Magik0722]

IMO:
DK
Squirtle
Bowser
Ike
Captian
Samus
Jiggs
Link
Ganon

 

[Steeler]

definitely not squirtle and probably not samus/jiggs...dk is debatable, could be even. ivy sure as hell can't kill ike but ivy can do its job well in that matchup.

i think ness is possibly an advantage, but probably just even. lucas is probably an advantage...yoshi is kind of like what i mentioned about ike. advantage against zelda, probably.

i don't see ivy having any advantages above D tier.

 

[Magik0722]

Well obviously ivysuar doesnt have any advantage over anyone over d tier

in fact if you dont think that ivysuar doesnt beat DK than none of the 3 pokemon have an advantage over anyone over E tier

 

[Steeler]

either ivysaur or charizard definitely has a slight advantage over DK, and possibly both.

squirtle may have an advantage over olimar but that's probably in the realm of 55:45. same with game and watch, toon link, zss.

 

[Magik0722]

what? Game and watch and ZSS are some of squirtles worst match-ups. And Toonlink doesnt really have anything gay on squirtle be he is just an overall better character so he gets the advantage as well.

 

[T-block]

squirtle beats ivysaur, lucas beats ivysaur

i'd put ivy slightly over dk as well

 

[Zigsta]

I'd either put Ivysaur barely above DK or vice-versa. Same with Ike; it's close, and I'm not sure exactly which way I'd go.

Also, Charizard has more than a slight advantage over DK. Easy MU.

 

[Buuda]

I personally like mixing it up with GR by jab-cancelling the second, or sometimes even the first jab. I notice alot of people like to roll after the second jab. Therefore, use your smashes for great justice. Or just pivot grab to get 'em again. I also think it's fun to GR Single jab, Re-grab, etc, silly mind games. lol. Not sure how practical it is, but it makes people I play mad. XD

But mostly, I go for the grab pummel and up-throw. Squirt's U-throw does a solid eleven damage and has a great follow-up trajectory.
It's really funny watching n00b PTs use D-throw at low-damage trying to use it to rack damage in the assumption that it does alot because of its high knockback XDD
But yeah. If your opponent is at zero, I'd say go for the F-throw>F-throw>F-air Chain>U-air Chain>****. That's what I usually try to do. Great opening combo. And can be a wicked zero-death against characters with bad recovery if you've got a fully charged Water Gun. F-throw>F-throw, F-air (off-stage)>F-air>Jump+Fair>get back on the stage, Water Gun quickly if needed. Anyone else use that one?

 

[Vermy]

That's pretty 2008.

 

[Zatchiel]

I need help with PT, mainly Ivysaur, but i still fail with all of them
Anybody willing to help me?
I've plenty questions to ask, but i don't expect all to be answered.

 

[Magik0722]

Ask away

 

[Zatchiel]

Ivysaur
How do you space with Ivysaur?
How do you rack?
What useful options to KO at high %'s?

Squirtle
KO moves besides Fair and Bair?
Options out of shelldshifting?
Possible Jab lock set-ups?

Charizard
How do you play Charizard with agility?
What to do when you get the grab?
Possible OoS options?
Is Gliding and Glide Attacking useful/worth it?

 

[Magik0722]

Ivysaur
How do you space with Ivysaur? Learn the size of the hitboxes and just practice all there really is to it. Unless you mean what move you should use to keep a distance, than thats bair
How do you rack? Nair combos, razor leafs and throws
What useful options to KO at high %'s? uair, fsmash, bthrow, All of these are subpar ivy isnt too great at getting KOs

Squirtle
KO moves besides Fair and Bair? dthrow and uair
Options out of shelldshifting? grab, usmash and fsmash
Possible Jab lock set-ups? knocking a opponent off a platform with shield push and hope they dont tech.

Charizard
How do you play Charizard with agility? im not sure what you mean by this.
What to do when you get the grab? You kidding? its super easy to get the grab, sheild grab is easy as well.
Possible OoS options? Grab is the best option, after that he really doesnt have much, bair is decent
Is Gliding and Glide Attacking useful/worth it? no

In quotes

 

[Zatchiel]

Squirtle
How do you Fsmash out of a Shellshift? o_0

Charizard
I think you misunderstood my question, so i'll be more specific.
What's best to do when you get the grab? Not how easy is it to shieldgrab, i do that naturally

 

[Magik0722]

fsmashing out of shellshift isnt very good and i never use it so you arent missing much, but basically you do it almost the same way as a usmash but you have to fmash in the opposite direction then the shellshift.

pummel then fthrow

 

[Zatchiel]

Oh, i get it, alright, thanks for the tips, i'll be back shortly soon.

 

[Steeler]

charizard's usmash is as fast as his grab (in front of him) and covers a lot of room around him. it's a decent out of shield option.

 

[Magik0722]

Charizard usmash is also SDIable and doesnt do as much damage as a grab would.

 

[Venusaur Trainer]

What about Fly Oos, when at high %? It does have some killing potential, even if it is not Dolphin Slash...

 

[T-block]

Fly definitely has KO potential, and using it OoS can be effective.

You need to be careful though, because it's really easy to SDI out of it, even accidentally

 

[Magik0722]

fly oos is to easy to SDI out of

its too much of a gamble

 

[Steeler]

Charizard usmash is also SDIable and doesnt do as much damage as a grab would.

grab doesn't kill until 180 or so though, while usmash, if not SDI'd will kill at 140 at worst. it can be SDI'd though...but at least it's fairly safe in that case, unlike fly.

 

[Magik0722]

Well with usmash you have to wait for your sheild to drop, unless you did a powershield, then usmash has to hit before they recover, and they have to be in the correct spot to get hit, then finally you have to hope they dont SDI out.

If all of this happens, it is still only the beneficial if its going to KO them sooner than another OOs Option as most other KO sooner, or do more damage.

 

[Steeler]

jump cancel your shield and you don't have to wait for it to drop

 

[Zatchiel]

I need help on Squirtle Shellshift > Smash.
I've only gotten Usmash and Fsmash so far, but i've seen Dsmash, and i was like, what? o_0

 

[Kith]

I really need to post the exact button input to do that somewhere lol. It's asked a lot. When I get home, I'll be happy to answer your question Lucas, assuming no one's answered it yet :-)

 

[Zatchiel]

On Ivysaur's Razor Leaves, is there any way possible to alter the trajectory?

On Charizard, Does Fly become a legit OoS option at Kill %'s?

 

[CHOMPY]

Is it just me or are other people having a rough time playing on Wi-Fi? I literally cannot do ANYTHING on Wi-Fi.

How else do you guys practice with your Pokemon Trainer and how often do you guys practice with them?

 

[Zatchiel]

My questions haven't been answered? T_T
I thought this place was alive!

@Chompy: I'm on Wifi 90% of the time, as there isn't a lot of smash scene in my part of Georgia, so i'm kinda used to Wifi.
If you mean lag, yeah, i feel that too >.<

 

[Zigsta]

Lucas, gimme a few days to get to your questions. My computer's AC adapter died last week, so I'm on my iPhone. I'd like to go into detail on your questions and provide links, all of which are rather tedious on iPhone.

 

[Zigsta]

On Ivysaur's Razor Leaves, is there any way possible to alter the trajectory?

That's still debated. A thread was made by a non-PT main named Kingdom Come saying he figured out a way to control the leaves. Both Susa and Bomber found it reliable when tested, but Magik found it to not work.

Here's the thread, in case you're interested: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242396

On Charizard, Does Fly become a legit OoS option at Kill %'s?

That's really personal preference. I rarely use Fly OoS because it's easy to SDI out of, and if you mess up, it's very, very easy to punish. typh, on the other hand, uses it much more.

Experiment with it and see how you feel about it.

Now I use it a lot when I'm in the middle of a multi-hit attack. Just mash up B like nobody's business. That said, multi-hit moves aren't used that much for that reason.

 

[Zatchiel]

I've read somewhere that Fire attacks to double Knockback to Ivysaur. I haven't tested it yet, but does it affect damage output as well?
Also, does this apply to other Pokemon?(Ex: Pikachu's Thunder Jolt on Squirtle.)

 

[T-block]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=161741

 

[Magik0722]

No it isnt double its an added on 10% to ivysuars percent.

Also the only types recognized in brawl are Water Grass and Fire

The only one that really matters is fire since really only ivysuar and squirtle have grass and water attacks

So that means ivysuar will get sent farther by fire attacks and squirtle wont be.

There is no effect on damage.

 

[Zatchiel]

No it isnt double its an added on 10% to ivysuars percent.

Also the only types recognized in brawl are Water Grass and Fire

The only one that really matters is fire since really only ivysuar and squirtle have grass and water attacks

So that means ivysuar will get sent farther by fire attacks and squirtle wont be.

There is no effect on damage.

So Ivysaur takes 2 times the knockback, and Squirtle takes 2 time less?

 

[T-block]

What? How did you get that? Knockback is increased by 10%

Do you realize how huge double knockback would be? lol

 

[Zatchiel]

Oh, lol, epic mix of words x.x
So 10% more for Ivy, but 10% less for Squirtle?