Best (And Worst) Designed Characters.

[smashbroskilla]

I think Fox is beautifully designed. It's one of those funny things where on paper it seems much worse than in reality. Like float cancelling: a 0 lag aerial seems tooooo good.

Really, I only think Fox Usmash/uair are bull****.

I think Fox/Falco are one of, if not the most basic character(s) in the game. It doesn't get much more boring and basic all around when it comes to them. That's why they are jesus tier. They are so hip to be square super nerds are upset at how boring and well rounded they are. Right now some project M nerd is creating an alt costume for fox/falco to have pocket protectors and custom "eye of the tiger" music built in to fountain of dreams, yoshi's story, battlefield, and dreamland. And of course the music only plays when fox or falco is chosen. On a serious note how do you float cancel with fox?

 

[The_NZA]

I think Fox/Falco are one of, if not the most basic character(s) in the game. It doesn't get much more boring and basic all around when it comes to them. That's why they are jesus tier. They are so hip to be square super nerds are upset at how boring and well rounded they are. Right now some project M nerd is creating an alt costume for fox/falco to have pocket protectors and custom "eye of the tiger" music built in to fountain of dreams, yoshi's story, battlefield, and dreamland. And of course the music only plays when fox or falco is chosen. On a serious note how do you float cancel with fox?

up up down down left right left right downB.

on a serious note, my point was to illustrate that float cancelling on paper would appear to be a broken mechanic and bad game design. But it isn't in function.

Also, I want this eye of the tiger build. That's how pumped I get when I play against spacie.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

KDJ HAS AN IKE?!?!?!

SOMEONE CONVINCE HIM TO IKE AT APEX PLEASE

 

[DrinkingFood]

This monstrosity has got to be the worst designed character........ hell, the WORST character ever.
And not even the the awesomeness of project melee can fix that

explain yourself heathen

 

[Kink-Link5]

I think Fox/Falco are one of, if not the most basic character(s) in the game. It doesn't get much more boring and basic all around when it comes to them. That's why they are jesus tier. They are so hip to be square super nerds are upset at how boring and well rounded they are. Right now some project M nerd is creating an alt costume for fox/falco to have pocket protectors and custom "eye of the tiger" music built in to fountain of dreams, yoshi's story, battlefield, and dreamland. And of course the music only plays when fox or falco is chosen. On a serious note how do you float cancel with fox?

Can't bait me no sir. I can't be baited if I just keep my mouth shut.

 

[NWRL]

I think Fox/Falco are one of, if not the most basic character(s) in the game. It doesn't get much more boring and basic all around when it comes to them. That's why they are jesus tier. They are so hip to be square super nerds are upset at how boring and well rounded they are. Right now some project M nerd is creating an alt costume for fox/falco to have pocket protectors and custom "eye of the tiger" music built in to fountain of dreams, yoshi's story, battlefield, and dreamland. And of course the music only plays when fox or falco is chosen. On a serious note how do you float cancel with fox?

Fun to play, boring to watch is my sentiment towards spacies. Wolf is fun to watch but that's because he doesn't play like the other two at all. What's more hype, Fox waveshining someone off the stage and gimping with shine, or Falcon/Wolf/Ganon running an aerial train on someone?

 

[smashbroskilla]

Fun to play, boring to watch is my sentiment towards spacies. Wolf is fun to watch but that's because he doesn't play like the other two at all. What's more hype, Fox waveshining someone off the stage and gimping with shine, or Falcon/Wolf/Ganon running an aerial train on someone?

Falcon knee all day errday. Spacies are perfect, too perfect.

 

[HyperrCrow]

He plays like...everyone. But yeah, he has a great Ike, Zelda, Metaknight, and Mewtwo.

Have you seen his Falco in PM? Ridiculous.
I've beaten his Ike with MK and ZSS before, but the rest of his characters are a no go.

KDJ HAS AN IKE?!?!?!

SOMEONE CONVINCE HIM TO IKE AT APEX PLEASE

He'll probably do it anyways, most likely in pools though.

 

[Freze]

Worst designed characters for me would be Snake, Wario, and Jigglypuff. Jigglypuff for many reasons already stated. I hate wario's design due to his ridiculous side-B, down air, and F smash, and Down smash. Down Smash and Down air set-up for moves way to ridiculously easy and are hard to punish. F-smash and Side-B are way to fast for how hard they hit, and when you use them in a smart way, are also very hard to punish. Very fast and overly powerful moves (like Fox's upsmash) are just terrible design. I dislike Snake due to his boring moveset, and the fact that his C4 being attached to opponents is unremovable, and allows for extremely early kills in the 60-80% range when they should not, is just a horrible idea.

 

[Renji64]

Jigglypuff worse, Best Falco or marth.

 

[The_NZA]

. F-smash and Side-B are way to fast for how hard they hit, and when you use them in a smart way, are also very hard to punish. Very fast and overly powerful moves (like Fox's upsmash) are just terrible design. I dislike Snake due to his boring moveset, and the fact that his C4 being attached to opponents is unremovable, and allows for extremely early kills in the 60-80% range when they should not, is just a horrible idea.

a lot of the best moves though are like this. Peach's dsmash, Marth's fsmash, Falcon's knee, Shiek's dsmash/usmash, Falco's fsmash/dsmash. Although Fox's usmash is almost TOO strong because it ignores location, and there isn't positional counterplay against it.

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

explain yourself heathen

Well 40% of my intense hatred I have for R.O.B is the fact that he should not even be in ANY smash bros game. I mean out of the many,many,many,many,many,many possible characters for a smash game, we get HIM?

And the other 60% goes to his game mechanics. He honestly doesn't even ''feel'' like a smash bros character, his special moves, aerials, and normal moves just don't sit right with me.

This monstrosity of a character shouldn't have even been in brawl........ and again not even the pure awesomeness that is project M can fix that.

Death to !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[The_NZA]

Well 40% of my intense hatred I have for R.O.B is the fact that he should not even be in ANY smash bros game. I mean out of the many,many,many,many,many,many possible characters for a smash game, we get HIM?

And the other 60% goes to his game mechanics. He honestly doesn't even ''feel'' like a smash bros character, his special moves, aerials, and normal moves just don't sit right with me.

This monstrosity of a character shouldn't have even been in brawl........ and again not even the pure awesomeness that is project M can fix that.

Death to !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You Piece of ****, ROB saved the industry in 1985. Who deserves to be in smash more than him???

Worship the bot. NOW!

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

You Piece of ****, ROB saved the industry in 1985. Who deserves to be in smash more than him???

Worship the bot. NOW!

He could have saved the universe 4000 times over and I still wouldn't want him in smash >.>
And NO I'LL NEVER WORSHIP A WORTHLESS ROBOTIC TIN-CAN!!!!!!

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Down Smash and Down air set-up for moves way to ridiculously easy and are hard to punish.

Look on the bright side, at least they don't come out in 1 Frame and are jump-cancelable and cover other moves' punishability while setting up for moves and being hard to punish.

 

[Nguz95]

Look on the bright side, at least they don't come out in 1 Frame and are jump-cancelable and cover other moves' punishability while setting up for moves and being hard to punish.

Yeah, good thing nobody has a move like that. I think I'd quit smash if I ever saw a monstrosity like that.

 

[ArtehFX]

P:M Fox feels really weird for me, especially his wavedash, I prefer the melee fox more.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Fun to play, boring to watch is my sentiment towards spacies. Wolf is fun to watch but that's because he doesn't play like the other two at all. What's more hype, Fox waveshining someone off the stage and gimping with shine, or Falcon/Wolf/Ganon running an aerial train on someone?

Waveshine for sure. D-throw/Uair into fair gets boring after the eighty seventh time. Waveshine is substantially more situational and the technical input that goes into it means it won't be seen consistently unless the player is Hax.

 

[NWRL]

Waveshine for sure. D-throw/Uair into fair gets boring after the eighty seventh time. Waveshine is substantially more situational and the technical input that goes into it means it won't be seen consistently unless the player is Hax.

l0l.

Sounds like you hate fun.

 

[deadjames]

l0l.

Sounds like you hate fun.

Waveshining is the most hype, but only when it's Wolf juggling someone back and forth with waveshines.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Wolf has Waveshine combos on fox.

It's nuts.

Oh yeah, toss in Wolf in the best designed by P:M right after Ike. A spacie that feels like a spacie yet is *gasp* fair to fight against? And feels really different and unique from Foxco too. It's great.

 

[Kink-Link5]

l0l.

Sounds like you hate fun.

Auto-combos aren't really fun, or engaging, or interesting no matter who uses them, but at least Fox's Waveshine is rare, difficult, and carries risk of ****ing up at the end. Falcon any hitconfirm into fair is as boring as Fox's U-throw Uair.

 

[batistabus]

Ike is a true zero-to-hero story. He gives me faith that all PM characters, despite their previous builds, can one day reach a sweet spot.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

What's with the Jiggs hate? I understand people are still butthurt from losing to her in Melee, but DAMN is the salt heavy on this one. I actually love fighting her, being rest comboed just feels... kinda like getting Falcon Kneed. I WANT to be salty, but I just can't.

Oh yeah, and for the record, any answer except Pikachu for worst designed is wrong. Just flat out wrong. He is the single most boring and uninterestingly designed character of all time.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Well 40% of my intense hatred I have for R.O.B is the fact that he should not even be in ANY smash bros game. I mean out of the many,many,many,many,many,many possible characters for a smash game, we get HIM?

Then take this complaint to brawl, that's not really a fair criticism of P:M since the idea is to take the cast of brawl and give them Melee-esque mechanics.

And the other 60% goes to his game mechanics. He honestly doesn't even ''feel'' like a smash bros character, his special moves, aerials, and normal moves just don't sit right with me.

And this is just wrong. For specials, his laser is like falcos, but worse, his gyro is like Diddy's banana/snake's mind mixed with peach's turnip, in terms design, his side-b/up-b is a movement option, not at all uncommon in smash, especially in P:M. For aerials, his Uair is just like a typical uair from falcon/Wolf/mario, but with a unique feel of being multi hit, his fair isn't unlike Jiggs fair, dair is typical meteor, although it does change momentum which is something only common in P:M, same thing with bair's momentum change, and nair is only unique such that it is strong throught the entire animation, but other than that it covers his entire body like many nairs. For grounded normals, there's nothing that weird either. Jab is normal. ftlt/dtilt are pokes, like Samus's and marth's respectively, utilt just hits overhead with upward knockback as expected, fsmash and usmash are kill moves with decent reach, no surprise there. Dsmash is multi hit (not uncommon but it's bee done before) move that covers both sides of him like many dsmashes do. I don't get it, what about him doesn't "feel" like a smash bros character? I main him, and the only thing I found a little "weird" to smash bros is the side-b airdash, but I got over that once I got used to it, especialy now that a LOT of characters have access to movement based specials.

 

[deadjames]

What's with the Jiggs hate? I understand people are still butthurt from losing to her in Melee, but DAMN is the salt heavy on this one. I actually love fighting her, being rest comboed just feels... kinda like getting Falcon Kneed. I WANT to be salty, but I just can't.

Oh yeah, and for the record, any answer except Pikachu for worst designed is wrong. Just flat out wrong. He is the single most boring and uninterestingly designed character of all time.

I don't get the Puff hate either, just use Bowser or Ike they both destroy her, but I'll say something about Pika that's similar to what I said about Ike anyone who thinks Pika is boring probably doesn't know about QaCs.

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

Then take this complaint to brawl, that's not really a fair criticism of P:M since the idea is to take the cast of brawl and give them Melee-esque mechanics.

Umm.... im confused. You asked me to ''Explain my reasoning'' on why I hate Rob, and then when I say my reason, im told to take my ''complaint'' somewhere else? I was never complaining about anything, all a did was give my honest over exaggerated opinion. And I understand that the idea of P:M is to give the cast of brawl Melee-esque mechanics, all I said was that I feel as if thought Rob is the one character that doesn't fit in a brawl or melee setting.

 

[Bleck]

"Over-exaggerated", here, essentially means obnoxious (and the large, unpleasant red text isn't helping). Whether or not something is your opinion is irrelevant if it only serves to annoy the other posters and doesn't foster any healthy or meaningful discussion.

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

"Over-exaggerated", here, essentially means obnoxious (and the large, unpleasant red text isn't helping). Whether or not something is your opinion is irrelevant if it only serves to annoy the other posters and doesn't foster any healthy or meaningful discussion.

When I said over-exaggerated, I meant as in over the top. If it sounded as if though I was being obnoxious (and I truly wasn't) then I give my sincerest apology's. As for my opinion, it wasn't necessarily supposed to lead into any meaningful discussion, because it was truly only meant to answer a question. (p.s the old red ruled :X)

Anyway getting back on topic, I think that Mario has to be one of my all time favorite designed characters. Because the P:M staff took the best of and the best of and made

 

[Daftatt]

I don't think I can properly judge if a character is badly designed if I don't know them like the back of my hand, so my pool is limited. That being said, ZSS wins for playing most like how I would expect her to actually fight in her respective game (Metroid: Zero Mission). Squirtle is beautiful once you master his advance shell-shift tech. HOWEVER, the best designed character far and away is Mewtwo, he plays so intimidatingly, he is just the coolest character in the game for me right now. Lucario would be 2nd best designed though, he truly plays like a fighting-type pokemon should.

All the characters you mentioned can be destroyed by GnW, all it takes is some Fair/Bair spacing.


And as for badly designed, I don't want to get into it, although pikachu lacks that style that he needs.

Like Falco and Falcon, swag for days, no one is more stylish than these guys

Pikachu, nope. His gimps are cute but he really lacks in the swag department

I totally agree that pikachu is the most lackluster fighter for me right now.

 

[JOE!]

a lot of the best moves though are like this. Peach's dsmash, Marth's fsmash, Falcon's knee, Shiek's dsmash/usmash, Falco's fsmash/dsmash. Although Fox's usmash is almost TOO strong because it ignores location, and there isn't positional counterplay against it.

Which is *why* they are the best moves.

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

When I said over-exaggerated, I meant as in over the top. If it sounded as if though I was being obnoxious (and I truly wasn't) then I give my sincerest apology's. As for my opinion, it wasn't necessarily supposed to lead into any meaningful discussion, because it was truly only meant to answer a question. (p.s the old red ruled :X)

Anyway getting back on topic, I think that Mario has to be one of my all time favorite designed characters. Because the P:M staff took the best of and the best of and made

I love being a main.

Spoiler

....





.. On a completely unrelated note, I wish my , , and were better.

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

I love being a main.

Spoiler

....





.. On a completely unrelated note, I wish my , , and were better.

Being a main is where it's at.

Spoiler

.... But my ,, and need some fine tuning x3

 

[deadjames]

Being a main is where it's at.

Spoiler

.... But my ,, and need some fine tuning x3

What a coincidence, I'm a main who used to main .

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

What a coincidence, I'm a main who used to main .

I honestly would also love to main ...... but EVERY TIME I play a match with my friends with her, I ALWAYS lose.
Tis a sad day for a wannabe Peach player

 

[deadjames]

I honestly would also love to main ...... but EVERY TIME I play a match with my friends with her, I ALWAYS lose.
Tis a sad day for a wannabe Peach player

Yeah she definitely requires a bit more tech skill than Mario, but once you've put in some work I feel like she's much more rewarding.

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

Yeah she definitely requires a bit more tech skill than Mario, but once you've put in some work I feel like she's much more rewarding.

Oh yea definitely. She does take a bit (alot for me :X) of technical prowess to play well, but once you have those skill's down, then your good to go.
And James you said that Mario was once your main, so why'd ya quit playing him? (curious baker is curious)

 

[deadjames]

Oh yea definitely. She does take a bit (alot for me :X) of technical prowess to play well, but once you have those skill's down, then your good to go.
And James you said that Mario was once your main, so why'd ya quit playing him? (curious baker is curious)

Idk, I've gone through quite a few mains in PM, I also played Sonic, Ivysaur, and Bowser at different points, but I still like Mario, I just kind of got bored of him because I've mained one of the Mario bros on like every Smash game.

 

[xXDarkRisingXx]

Why all the hate

He could have saved the universe 4000 times over and I still wouldn't want him in smash >.>
And NO I'LL NEVER WORSHIP A WORTHLESS ROBOTIC TIN-CAN!quot why all the hate on the robot? Lol

 

[DrinkingFood]

What's with the Jiggs hate? I understand people are still butthurt from losing to her in Melee, but DAMN is the salt heavy on this one. I actually love fighting her, being rest comboed just feels... kinda like getting Falcon Kneed. I WANT to be salty, but I just can't.

I don't get the Puff hate either, just use Bowser or Ike they both destroy her

Having a neutral game that consists of almost exclusively one move is what makes her design ****ty and the fact that her combo game is also seriously indebted to that one move doesn't help. There's also the fact that she gets a free pass on needing combo DI because of how floaty, light, and small she is, and she gets a free pass on recovery against a huge portion of the cast. And she has like four moves that almost never see use. Fighting her is a game of attrition for single hit punishes hoping to optimize damage rather than positioning, hopefully leading to a vertical KO; it's almost the definition of boring.
It has nothing to do with how good Jiggs is or how salty people are about losing to her. She really is awfully designed.