Being a "Low Tier Player" does not make you unique or honorable.

[vesperview]

I totally agree with this thread.

 

[ToP CaT]

I think that being a GOOD low tier player makes you unique. How many pro fox players can you name? Now how many pro pichu players can you name? Just my two cents...

QFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CT Chia]

terrible thread. sure you can get mad props as an amazing player such as m2k pc or ken, but if you get to such a level as a low tier character, you get plenty of respect. look at bum or dire, and they get a lot of props for being that amazing with those characters. if your just an average player and u purposely play a low tier tho to try and get extra cred, thats not what its all about. but you shouldnt only learn top tier characters. telling a newcomer to do that is bad, you should tell them to pick their favorite character and start kickin *** with em, even if its pichu...

 

[rev]

correct me if I'm wrong but I believe tiers represent the level a character can be played at TECHNICALLY, while the mind-games of smash is a whole different level not mattering near as much which character you are. low tier or high tier, if I play my end of the game smarter than you, I'm more likely going to win.

 

[Epok]

I think part of it has to do with time spent. I have kinda been riding the fence on this try to be more of a competitive smash player. The play to win or play who you like and say screw 'em. I came to the conclusion, play who you wanna play but understand that some characters win easier than others. Some are gonna take a TON more work than others just because we all came to realize this game isn't as balanced as we wall want it to be. Right now my best character is link. I don't like to use the word "main" any more just because I play other characters the same amount. I also play Ness, Falco, and Mario. But I know that playing lower tier characters requires a ton more knowledge of the game and skill. but I'm willing to do that to play some one I enjoy playing. I guess what I'm saying is that there is gonna be a weird line between being a "Good" smash player and a smash player that plays to win, cause often they cross. Just because your a fox player doesn't make you cheap, and just cause you play DK doesn't make you lame. So if your gonna play low tier, bust your ***, and if you your not ready for massive amounts of frustration, play top tier. Stick with your decision and go with it, and don't let people tell you how you should play.

 

[Sinvoid]

Ill say i do play to win and have fun but also i play as who i want to enjoy it i mean im not gonna play as someone i dont have fun with just to win.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

My tragedy is that I chose my characters before the tier list ever formed. I simply worked on characters I liked over the years. My favorite characters are Young Link, Roy, and Kirby. Suddenly, I stumble on the tier list. Where are my favorite characters? Hmmm... low, low, and bottom. Wow, my life sucks.

Had I known about the tier list and how characters were ranked earlier in my Melee life, I might've learned other characters. However, it is far too late for me. Despite training with higher tier characters recently, I still perform better in tournament with my Young Link. >_<

But hey, I have taken first more than once before. So, it is not all in vain.

 

[CoM_Sreenath]

when i saw aniki beating ken with link (link v marth) in a best of 5 in the final of a huge tourney, i knew i had to stick with link. I play a low tier (link) because I love his balance of attacks and stats. I dont mind that he is as slow as he is; WDing is way too hard though, and his sword is puny. That's no master sword, it should be as long as marths. other than that, for me i am comfortable with Link because he has so many projectiles which slows down sheik and fox very well. his grab owns falco, and against marth i use a **** ton of bombs and edge grab + jump a down suprisingly for a quick kill at around 100%.

 

[Pynk]

You can't really be unique in the game due to the large population of the smash community. There is nothing wrong with low tiers, I main Luigi, but I also have Sheik, Marth, and Peach to fall back on if needed. Trying to prove something by being unique and honorable will just cause you to lose matches you could otherwise win.

 

[<π]

The heck does air pressure have to do with smash?!

 

[Blade Knight]

I main Kirby (low tier) Yoshi (Midtier) and my secondary is Captain Falcon (Upper Mid tier)

 

[shadydentist]

If you can win major tournaments with a low tier character, you're pretty unique.

 

[FalconPunch]

My friend constantly johns about losing to my Falcon. He like "It's Ness...Up-B handicap...You got Falcon he's so easy to use! (He can't shffl to save his life). He thinks I respect him for using "low tiers" but I occasionally wreck people with my G&W/Pikachu and my secondary is Luigi.

 

[PeeP]

I agree that using a low tier is not honorable, but it does a bit take more skill.

 

[Tha L@wl]

i agree
i use Ylink for fun, during low tier matches, or on noobs....
other than that...i like to stick with marth, falco, and sheik

 

[AlcyoNite]

for those who dont know, ICs arent low teir...idk, but arent they upper mid or something? and anyway y do u guys think aniki switched his main to samus? link prolly just wasnt putting out good enough results...and he has a **** good samus (an omg ftw beast samus)

 

[GimR]

In a way playing low tier does make you honorable(I main G&W) because you can't just watch all the videos of the pros doing it. You have to make up how to play that character because no one else plays it; So in essence it's a lot harder to get to the professional level with that character.

 

[Lag]

Mr. Game and Watch ftw!

 

[AlcyoNite]

aniki=honorable for being god-link

tehownzorz=dumace for being noob luigi and thinking hes hot stuff
EDIT: I made up that name btw...

 

[mario-man]

All I have to say is this:

When you watch two people play Fox, and you see the same **** going on back and forth, whoever wins wins, and thats it. You don't stand there and go, "Wow, that was some amazing ****! I've never seen someone use Fox and win in a tourney like that. He stands out high above the rest." In regards to number of wins, sure, a person using a "high tier" character might earn enough wins to stand out above everyone else, and if thats what you respect and give honor and uniqueness to, then yeah, that person is honorable and unique.

The issue is that those characters have been whored out so much that is become commonplace to see them win, which lessens the novelty of it which makes it less unique. Put it like this, which tactic would you give more "honor" and "uniqueness" to:

Country A uses bombs to destroy Country B's army, and Country B uses the same against Country A.

Country B wins.

OR

Country A uses bombs to destroy Country B's army, and Country B gets gangsta and calls out Jedi Masters to destroy Country A.

Country B wins.

Now of course this is exaggerated, but which scenario would give Country B more notoriety, honor, uniqueness? My guess would be the second one. And honestly, the point to which we have taken this game **** near requires you to be a Jedi in order to compete using the "lower tiered" characters. And for someone to say that you need top tier characters to place well in a tourney is absurd, this past MLG showed that a DK, and Game and Watch, and a Young Link were able to make it to the top 16. It's not that placing high with low tier characters can't be done, it's just that no one wants to go through the work to become a Jedi.

kubuu is now my friend. All I have to say is Mario is one of the most underrated characters in this game. No joke here folks. I'm serious.

false. I've put a lot of time into both fox and mewtwo. No Jedi skills are going to save Mewtwo.

SOME, mind you SOME, characters are too far gone to be EXTREMELY good with. You may place well in nearby smashfests, but SOME characters are just too bad. I must say Mewtwo is one of those.

 

[Blue sHell]

I play Peach main in tourneys every chance I get. But if I believe that my Bowser(secondary) stands a big winning chance when it's my turn to counterpick if I lose, I take him out.

Like in the case that I'm playing a Ganondorf player as my Peach and I end up losing the first round. If I get the chance I will then choose Bowser and counterpick Yoshi's Island because I'm more confident playing Ganon there than play against him as Peach ANYWHERE. This isn't saying I suck as Peach, but against certain characters I have someone else I could use.
====================================
The point I'm trying to get at isn't that I play Bowser because I think I'm unique, or because I'm just "having fun", it's because I use him because I believe that he'd make me win. It's not sandbagging, it's me playing my secondary which just so happens to be a bottom tier.

Not all people who use their low tier characters play them because they think they're fun(I'm sure they think they're fun but that goes without saying), or because they want to be something crazy, they play them because they are good with that character and are playing because they know they'll win.

PS: I don't speak for everyone when I say this. I'm just throwing out another point of view.

 

[PsychopathicEmus]

i dont know about 'honorable' but, to be honest...i do use pikachu to be 'unique' =p. i'm not at a competitive level yet, but i have a few friends who are, and they've been having these sorta mini-for-fun smash-fests, and the characters i see used the most are: fox, falco, falcon, and marth. now there are people there using link and stuff like him, but wouldnt it be nice to play a character nobody else uses? granted, it takes skill to be recognized anyway, but it'd bother me if we were playing a free-for-all and every single time, somebody was using my character (fox, falco(n), marth). granted, it's probably just my environment, but it's great to play a character nobody really knows. and come on, you have to admit, it's fun winning as the underdog =D.
i should put this out there too: i dont use pikachu solely to be unique...that's sort of a bonus. i use him because he was my childhood hero(lol) and quick attack is too cool to pass up =D

-edit
might be worth mentioning that i dont have anything against high/top-tier character users, as long as they're not using them to win just because they're high/top tier...

 

[Altus_Consul]

The advantage in using low tiers though has greatly worn off recently as the smash community has become insanely good. I main Luigi and i remember a time when I could play a good player and have a great chance for a couple of reasons which have worn off. First of all, the general community in my opinion was not very familiar with the mindgames of lower tier characters, including recovery, combos, etc. Second, people seemed to have a hard time because they weren't familiar with the physics of the characters they were fighting. For example, I used to feel an extreme advantage over Falcon because of the combos I could pull and how tricky Luigi's floaty physics are when trying to land a combo. However, now I absolutely hate playing Falcon because my opponents know what my combo starters are and though they can't always predict what will happen, they have a very decent idea. Also, Falcon players these days know what leads to what on Luigi and if I slip up one time I'm stuck in a combo that kills me at 70% every time. I love playing Luigi but my recovery got gimped so much and my mistakes were so costly I finally picked up some higher tier characters like Fox and Sheik. It's the truth...playing low tier these days is reserved for the godlike Smash players. And for the most part even they seem to prefer higher tier characters. I'll probably always main Luigi no matter the disadvantages but when I play him I have to be so much more focused and be on the absolute top of my game. I understand the sentiment of wanting to hang on to a low tier character but the unpredictability factor is gone and I think that makes the gaps of the tier system that much larger. Playing Luigi doesn't make me unique...I agree with that. However, Ka-Master owning with Luigi does make him unique. I think that most people elect to use low tier though because their movements just feel so natural, which is my case. But then again that's probably just because he's been my main for so long.

 

[ElvishSpirit]

Those who use low-tiers shouldnt be honored, but on the other hand, shouldnt be laughed at either. My main is Kirby. Kirby is my main because im good with him, no that im showing off. I dont think that im gonna be cool cause I main a very low tier char, heck, I also main Marth. You should try to be good with EVERY charater, so your ready for any sitution. If im gonna face a bunch of Noobs, ill cream em' with Pichu. High Tier Fanatics? Show em Mewtwo or Kirby. Serious 1 on 1 final destination no item dude that takes all the fun outta it? Marth to show some real skill, which they wanna see .

 

[Sandwich]

Well the characters I use are either mid tier or low tier.
I don't think it's because I wanted to be unique. It was just that I was very comfortable playing Luigi, Kirby, Mr. Game & Watch and Doctor Mario.
I don't like people hailing me for 4-stocking Marths with Luigi, but I rly hate people going "lol u nub u has a low tyre u cant beet my fox lolz".
[/probablynotonthecurrentpointofthetopic]

 

[NES n00b]

The advantage in using low tiers though has greatly worn off recently as the smash community has become insanely good. I main Luigi and i remember a time when I could play a good player and have a great chance for a couple of reasons which have worn off. First of all, the general community in my opinion was not very familiar with the mindgames of lower tier characters, including recovery, combos, etc. Second, people seemed to have a hard time because they weren't familiar with the physics of the characters they were fighting. For example, I used to feel an extreme advantage over Falcon because of the combos I could pull and how tricky Luigi's floaty physics are when trying to land a combo. However, now I absolutely hate playing Falcon because my opponents know what my combo starters are and though they can't always predict what will happen, they have a very decent idea. Also, Falcon players these days know what leads to what on Luigi and if I slip up one time I'm stuck in a combo that kills me at 70% every time. I love playing Luigi but my recovery got gimped so much and my mistakes were so costly I finally picked up some higher tier characters like Fox and Sheik. It's the truth...playing low tier these days is reserved for the godlike Smash players. And for the most part even they seem to prefer higher tier characters. I'll probably always main Luigi no matter the disadvantages but when I play him I have to be so much more focused and be on the absolute top of my game. I understand the sentiment of wanting to hang on to a low tier character but the unpredictability factor is gone and I think that makes the gaps of the tier system that much larger. Playing Luigi doesn't make me unique...I agree with that. However, Ka-Master owning with Luigi does make him unique. I think that most people elect to use low tier though because their movements just feel so natural, which is my case. But then again that's probably just because he's been my main for so long.

Yay, I play Link and Falcon because they feel more natural.

I can win with Link against some people. It isn't as hard as people think, but it is still very bad to use a low tier against a high tier. It becomes as bad as everyone thinks at the highest metagame which does not matter to us very much since we aren't there yet.

Winning with Low Tier makes you unique, losing with Low Tier does not. That is it. . . .

 

[Number 1 DK]

People have this misconception that they're unique and honorable just because they use a low tier character. I've seen so many people say that they won't play high tier characters because it's not unique and because it's cheap. The funny thing is, if you surveyed every ssbm player, and not just pros but every one, I'd say the most people play Roy and Link. Every time I meet a new smash player and they tell me which characters they use, the first bit of advice I give them is to begin to work on a high-top tier character. I laugh whenever someone says they don't want to be a traitor and change their main. No one really cares who you use, and if they suggest that you "stick with it" then they are not really trying to help you get better, they just don't want to face the truth that the tiers exist for a reason. Of course low tier characters are fun to use and even can be important for counterpicking, but if you ever want to play well in a tourney, learning a higher tier character is mandatory. Look at Ken. He's acknowledged as one of the best ssbm players and everyone who has even looked into pro ssbm knows of him. How many of them know of a Roy Main? Not even 25% as many. If you want to stand out, then do it by winning.

Ummmm.....

I've won whole tournaments using DK.....
So stfu

 

[GOTM]

People have this misconception that they're unique and honorable just because they use a low tier character. I've seen so many people say that they won't play high tier characters because it's not unique and because it's cheap. The funny thing is, if you surveyed every ssbm player, and not just pros but every one, I'd say the most people play Roy and Link. Every time I meet a new smash player and they tell me which characters they use, the first bit of advice I give them is to begin to work on a high-top tier character. I laugh whenever someone says they don't want to be a traitor and change their main. No one really cares who you use, and if they suggest that you "stick with it" then they are not really trying to help you get better, they just don't want to face the truth that the tiers exist for a reason. Of course low tier characters are fun to use and even can be important for counterpicking, but if you ever want to play well in a tourney, learning a higher tier character is mandatory. Look at Ken. He's acknowledged as one of the best ssbm players and everyone who has even looked into pro ssbm knows of him. How many of them know of a Roy Main? Not even 25% as many. If you want to stand out, then do it by winning.

your a moron.

bum is amazing, and destroys some high tier and top tier characters played by some of the best players in the world.

dire does extremely well also.

have u ever heard of ka-master? im pretty sure he has ***** silent wolf on many occasion.

and taj's mewtwo has beaten kens marth plenty of times as well.

shut up and learn to play melee

 

[Linkster47]

In SOLAR's first post he says that most people main Roy or Link? This makes no sense to me at all. If most people mained Roy or Link they would be at the top of the tier list, not Fox and Falco. Tier has nothing to do with how good you or a character is, it is only how often they are played in tourneys.

I do however main Link, his game just fells right and I like all his moves, he has great mind games too.
I also main J Puff, I love everything about J Puff, just an awesome character.

 

[RAQU]

I use a low tier character (Link, obviously =P) for a few of reasons.

1.Link is prolly my favorite character ever in a videogame

2.The great feeling i get when i beat ppl that use high tiers well.

3.It makes one unique to use a char most ppl deem unworthy in competitive play. it is some what repetitve to see the same 5 chars over and over again.(im not a high tier hater... i secondary Fox XD).

4.Its fairly easy to become somewhat popular when youre a better than good low tier user, because it is not too common to run into one.

 

[Sethlon]

If most people mained Roy or Link they would be at the top of the tier list, not Fox and Falco. Tier has nothing to do with how good you or a character is, it is only how often they are played in tourneys.

I don't know why a lot of people have this logic, cause its really completely wrong.

Its the other way around. People don't play roy or link because they suck as characters in general. Nobody wants to play a character that gets ***** on a regular basis by the higher tiers, so natural they want to play as the higher tiers.

 

[Silent Wolf]

your a moron.

bum is amazing, and destroys some high tier and top tier characters played by some of the best players in the world.

dire does extremely well also.

have u ever heard of ka-master? im pretty sure he has ***** silent wolf on many occasion.

and taj's mewtwo has beaten kens marth plenty of times as well.

shut up and learn to play melee

Luigi isn't low tier, the tier list is ******** in case you haven't noticed.

 

[Xephalon]

Nothing is ********, characters/tiers doesnt change the way the game is played, look at gimpyfish with bowser. he says himself bowser is a pretty bad character, but he has success playing as bowser. and some people have a hard time playing as higher tiers, such as myself, with marth all i do is camp, with capt falcon i just bring up percentage then knee. anyways the point is, its not what character you play, its how you play the game your way at your best level.

 

[specialsauce]

it doesnt really matter wether the character is "good" or "bad" all that matters is that u know how to use em and feel comfortable doing so often times i find myself using yoshi or pikachu and link i just seem to play good with them it doesnt matter what tier a character is.

 

[FalconPunch]

I'm pretty sure what SOLAR is saying is that there are some people who play "Low Tiers" ONLY because they think playing with low tiers makes them special and honorable as if they are the only ones who play that character and a lot of them try to use that as an excuse when they lose.

 

[Sync99]

One of my friends thinks he's honorable because he uses Link and Ness. It's because Link and Ness are harder to get good results with, he tells me. The reality is that Link's and Ness's moves are the easiest for him to use. (Funny, most n00bs find Marth Fsmash or Peach Dsmash easiest to use, but this guy is actually somewhat good.) He loves the dash attack (Ness), Up-B ledgeguarding (Link), long grabs (Link), and powerful Bthrow (Ness). The truth here is that because of his playing style he would probably suck with Fox, Falco, or Sheik.

I find that a lot of low tier players stick with their character because they liked the character initially or thought, "I like that fighting style", not "I'm gonna get good with an underdog" or "I can use this character and be considered better than I am because it's the character's fault, not mine". I have found that low tier players tend to play as well as their skill level, not their character. Another "finding" of mine is that low tier characters have an advantage because fewer people play as them, and most people don't get practice against someone who's actually psychotically good with Yoshi or Mewtwo.

There is no need for low tier tourneys. I suck with Kirby because I gave him up when I saw the tier list and that Fox had a flashier playing style. If I hadn't given him up, I would probably do better with Kirby than Fox. My last point (I love to type) is that because people don't see psychotically good Mewtwo/Yoshi players that often, they don't know how to use those characters as well. I sucked with Yoshi until I saw how much faster and more unpredictable he could be than I thought and without any more practice I immediately got much better with him, the same way I get better watching good Marth, Falco, and PEach players, etc. There's really no difference--Silentwolf is right... the tier list is ********.

 

[slikvik]

In SOLAR's first post he says that most people main Roy or Link? This makes no sense to me at all. If most people mained Roy or Link they would be at the top of the tier list, not Fox and Falco. Tier has nothing to do with how good you or a character is, it is only how often they are played in tourneys.

lol ur dum...

 

[Tha L@wl]

i think the tier list is right
it shows what its supposed to
character potential

 

[error_alt_delete]

soem characters have an advantage over others, but not by the tier list standards. it just so happens that character like fox, and flaco have a advatage over a larger group. but the tier list is still crap and you should go with whatever character feels most like your fighting style.

for example I do best with samus and bowser. they both have good close combat teqniques(to me)

 

[Platypus]

To say that you are honorable for using a low tier,
1) Everyone you play with must be using Marth, Shiek, Fox, or Falco,
II) They all have to mock you on a regular basis for your choice,
and C) You have to beat them graciously.

Honor can only truly emerge when dishonor has shunned it.

In other words, unless you're the only Samus in a crowd of Fox, you are not "honorable". But you probably have fun.