Being a "Low Tier Player" does not make you unique or honorable.

[SOLAR]

People have this misconception that they're unique and honorable just because they use a low tier character. I've seen so many people say that they won't play high tier characters because it's not unique and because it's cheap. The funny thing is, if you surveyed every ssbm player, and not just pros but every one, I'd say the most people play Roy and Link. Every time I meet a new smash player and they tell me which characters they use, the first bit of advice I give them is to begin to work on a high-top tier character. I laugh whenever someone says they don't want to be a traitor and change their main. No one really cares who you use, and if they suggest that you "stick with it" then they are not really trying to help you get better, they just don't want to face the truth that the tiers exist for a reason. Of course low tier characters are fun to use and even can be important for counterpicking, but if you ever want to play well in a tourney, learning a higher tier character is mandatory. Look at Ken. He's acknowledged as one of the best ssbm players and everyone who has even looked into pro ssbm knows of him. How many of them know of a Roy Main? Not even 25% as many. If you want to stand out, then do it by winning.

 

[ggPeteQ]

if you ever want to play well in a tourney, learning a higher tier character is mandatory

Chu Dat and Dire. That's all I need to say.

 

[Frozenserpent]

Pick up any char that can bring you results, or whatever goal you have. If someone values playing "fair" more than "winning at all costs", then so be it. That's his choice. A "playing to win" mindset isn't for everyone.

 

[Ryan-K]

I hate that crap

I dont have a problem with people wanting to play a character for fun because thats what the game is all about but picking someone to be unique is stupid

"I wanna be unique like everyone else"

 

[ToP CaT]

true dat, i play everyone from marth-2-g&w and i dont break out my low tiers to be respected i use characters because they are fun to play with. If people want to be unique or honorable than they can accomplish sumthin like winning mlg, wether it be with pichu or with falco, wins are wins

 

[choknater]

tell this crap to Taj, who beat the king with mewtwo last weekend

that match changed my vision of tiers forever

and seriously there's too many sexy players like dire, the europe yoshis, simna, caveman neo etc. who **** with low tiers (but taj's mewtwo is by far the sexiest LOLZZZZ)

 

[maXXXpower]

Taj is a STUD. Number two in Arizona, but number one in my heart.

 

[squaminator]

its true, tiers are there for a reason.
but taj is a mewtwo GOD. for us ordinary mortals we should accept the tiers.
in my mind, the tiers represent who is most likely to win the tournaments, not who is the best for your skill level. it represents the skill level america is at. at the n00b level, for example, sheik is top tier because most noobs can pick her up and be awesome. but as you progress, different characters become better in the metagame because of the mistakes it can take care of. my group i used to dominate with marth once our sheik stage was over because of his sick edgeguarding.
posting my thoughts.

 

[Lixivium]

Tools that are no good require more skill. Being able to win with Bowser/Mewtwo/Pichu is way more impressive than winning with broken characters like Fox/Falco/Sheik/Marth.

 

[Bullfrog]

its true, tiers are there for a reason.
but taj is a mewtwo GOD. for us ordinary mortals we should accept the tiers.
in my mind, the tiers represent who is most likely to win the tournaments, not who is the best for your skill level. it represents the skill level america is at. at the n00b level, for example, sheik is top tier because most noobs can pick her up and be awesome. but as you progress, different characters become better in the metagame because of the mistakes it can take care of. my group i used to dominate with marth once our sheik stage was over because of his sick edgeguarding.
posting my thoughts.

Tiers are what character has a better probability winning at the current METAGAME. The lower skilled you are, the less the tier list applies to you.

On topic: I play Yoshi because he's my favorite chracter out of the line-up, and I do pretty well with him, so yeah....

 

[squaminator]

so if they require more skill, then i have a better chance of winning than the "broken" characters? i choose that, but low-tier is fun.

 

[Bullfrog]

And he said it's more IMPRESSIVE, not that it's easier. >_>

 

[squaminator]

its all about style. they did an article about this sort of thing on magicthegathering.com
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mr11b
the game is different but the concept is the same
instant KO's is timmy
low tier/creative combos is johnny
spike is tiers
win flashy, win by your style, or win a lot?

 

[omegawhitemage]

People have this misconception that they're unique and honorable just because they use a low tier character. I've seen so many people say that they won't play high tier characters because it's not unique and because it's cheap. The funny thing is, if you surveyed every ssbm player, and not just pros but every one, I'd say the most people play Roy and Link. Every time I meet a new smash player and they tell me which characters they use, the first bit of advice I give them is to begin to work on a high-top tier character. I laugh whenever someone says they don't want to be a traitor and change their main. No one really cares who you use, and if they suggest that you "stick with it" then they are not really trying to help you get better, they just don't want to face the truth that the tiers exist for a reason. Of course low tier characters are fun to use and even can be important for counterpicking, but if you ever want to play well in a tourney, learning a higher tier character is mandatory. Look at Ken. He's acknowledged as one of the best ssbm players and everyone who has even looked into pro ssbm knows of him. How many of them know of a Roy Main? Not even 25% as many. If you want to stand out, then do it by winning.

Everyone knows Neo, and he beats everyone he plays with Roy. If he just went to more tournaments everyone woujld know him. But he doesn't, doesn't change the fact that he could place as high as anyone with Roy.

Picking up a high tier if you want to place well is sadly becoming more true however. With the silly amount of Fox and Falco players of late, it's getting very difficult to compete if you use someone lower than high tier. Which i personally find sad, but that's the way the dynamic of the game changes. It used to be all sheik and before that marth...I vote we all use Ness next!!

 

[squaminator]

I vote we all use Ness next!!

then do some research on some new YYG stuff
the yo-yo glitch is awesome.

 

[Echo]

People can be honorable for what they do with Low Tiers...

its just the people that BLAME their low tier chr for the reason they lose. Thats what pisses people off... theres alot of people out there that only play a lower tier so:
1. They can try to trash talk if they win with a lower tier
2. They can say "its cuz I play kirby" or something stupid whenever they lose.

But theres plenty of people that are very well respected for playing low tiers... the GOOD ones.

 

[sord]

i really don't think many people play low tier to be considered unique or honorable. 99% of the time people play low tier because they find low tier more interesting or fun.

 

[AltF4]

I have had the honor of being 4 stocked my Taj's Mewtwo on many occasions and let me tell you that you'll have your oppinion of Tiers changed if you get a chance to. He's actually better against Fox and Falco's than other characters, Mewtwo does some seriously sick combos. Stuff you didn't think were possible.

I guess I just don't understand the tier list most of the time. If it's supposed to be based on tournament results, then why isn't Marth and IC's in top since Ken and Chu are #'s 1 and 2. I think they've demonstrated their character's abilities. And if the tiers are meant to be based on character potential, I invite you to play Taj's Mewtwo. (Sorry, man, don't mean to hype you up.)

I do acknowlege that certain characters have a little more going for them than others. After all this time that Melee has been out, every little aspect of the game has been analyzed and revealed. I personally am in the process of weaning myself off of excessive Ness usage. I can do well, but just not well enough with him. Some characters are just easier to jump into than others. (I have a friend who doesn't really play smash at all, he just knows the basics. But he plays Peach and pretty much just runs up to people and down smashes. And he can beat people that consider themselves serious players! Ridiculous!) I commend HAL for creating a game that is still relatively balanced, even after all these years of scrutiny however.

 

[DireVulcan]

It's obvious this is a joke thread and shouldn't be taken seriously because he hasn't even posted again in his own thread.

 

[Arash]

i don't know about other people, but i have more fun when i play with bowser than say, fox..

 

[Knickknacks]

lolz at echo's post. that got me there :D

 

[Shiri]

I can say that while I see what SOLAR's saying, I've never met someone like this.

In fact, I've only met people who play top tier characters that wish they could main their low tier characters, but feel that they aren't good enough (the characters, not the players) to use in tournament. I can imagine some people make the honorable or unique case you presented, but I would imagine they spend too much time whining about the game instead of playing it for fun or for profit. That doesn't mean low tier players are to be taken lightly, though. I think it's important to note that at intermidiate and semi-high levels of play, low tier players have much more in-depth knowledge of the game and how it works.

 

[Brookman]

No Johns Solar

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Hey Solar: Care to MM Dire? He's hungry and wants breakfast tomorrow.

No Johns Solar

Seconded.

 

[Kubuu]

All I have to say is this:

When you watch two people play Fox, and you see the same **** going on back and forth, whoever wins wins, and thats it. You don't stand there and go, "Wow, that was some amazing ****! I've never seen someone use Fox and win in a tourney like that. He stands out high above the rest." In regards to number of wins, sure, a person using a "high tier" character might earn enough wins to stand out above everyone else, and if thats what you respect and give honor and uniqueness to, then yeah, that person is honorable and unique.

The issue is that those characters have been whored out so much that is become commonplace to see them win, which lessens the novelty of it which makes it less unique. Put it like this, which tactic would you give more "honor" and "uniqueness" to:

Country A uses bombs to destroy Country B's army, and Country B uses the same against Country A.

Country B wins.

OR

Country A uses bombs to destroy Country B's army, and Country B gets gangsta and calls out Jedi Masters to destroy Country A.

Country B wins.

Now of course this is exaggerated, but which scenario would give Country B more notoriety, honor, uniqueness? My guess would be the second one. And honestly, the point to which we have taken this game **** near requires you to be a Jedi in order to compete using the "lower tiered" characters. And for someone to say that you need top tier characters to place well in a tourney is absurd, this past MLG showed that a DK, and Game and Watch, and a Young Link were able to make it to the top 16. It's not that placing high with low tier characters can't be done, it's just that no one wants to go through the work to become a Jedi.

 

[piZ]

Tiers are what character has a better probability winning at the current METAGAME.

QFT.

There's a reason the tier list changes every year. People discover new ways of utilizing a so called 'low tier' character to be good. Chu is a walking example.

 

[S.P.I.C. TOM]

Hey all I have to say is that in japan DK is up there with the high tier characters. It's all work,mind games, and patience with what ever character you play.


JUST PLAY YOUR FAV CHARACTER AND HAVE FUN WITH WHATEVA YOU DO

 

[wildwookie05]

Everyone needs to stop with this Machiavellian crap. Just play who's fun LOL...

really, I just wanted to use the word "Machiavellian" in a sentence, despite it not being entirely appropriate for this particular situation. although I am sure that despite this amendment to my post someone will still reply to me mocking my misuse of the word.

Also, I'd just like to say that it really seems like peoplethink the gap between the top and bottom of the tier list is waaay bigger than it is. What I mean is I believe that the differences between the tiers is smaller than it may seem. But then again, I am very small.

 

[piZ]

Did you just find your thesaurus?

 

[Sighrax]

A lot of people don't play this game strictly to win and shove it in people's faces. I'm sure Dire has an awesome time playing GW. I don't think he feels any better about beating someone with GW as he would if he played Fox against them.

A lot of people are like that. Personally, I have fun playing Falcon. In friendlies I like to dabble with other chars, but tourney wise, Falcon gives me the most enjoyment. Sure, I don't like it when I lose, but it doesn't make that big of a difference to me if I beat someone who plays fox or plays pichu.

 

[ToP CaT]

people should play low tiers for the challenge not for the respect. there should be self-satisfaction in beating higher tier characters with the lower ones.

example- it feels great 2 beat shiek with zelda, makes ya proud...

 

[highandmightyjoe]

I don't see what the problem with playing a low tier character is really. I mean why would you advice everyone to use a high tier character? Then everyone would use the same 5 or 6 characters, that would be boring. And while it may not be more honorable to play low tier it is more impressive, it requires creativity. That's one of the things that I like the least about the top tier characters. When you see a Fox, Falco, Marth, etc. match they all pretty much use the same tactics. Granted some are better at certain areas than others, and some may implement the tactics better, but they still have the same basic plan of attack. That doesn't seem to happen as much with the lower tier characters. When you see someone like Taj, or Aniki play they use pretty much every move their character has, and use them in tons of different ways. It is far more impressive to watch, though not really as effective for winning. It's just a matter of taste. Personally I don't play high tier because it makes me feel kind of guilty to beat my friends with them, but I play Link, and Ganon(not low tier but close). Those are who I feel comfortable with, so their who I use.

 

[Z-N_Freak]

imo, bragging about how you beat a fox with your luigi is stupid, but if you do it the fox player is like: O_o A luigi beat me.

That look on his face is worth it imo

I play Sheik as main (trying to learn Fox)
But Luigi stays Teh pwn imo and I try to use him as much as I can, but against a Sheik I need someone else that's why I try to learn a high tier (I can't play IC very well =/ )

 

[JFox]

This is a ridiculous topic. People can use whoever they want in tourney. To tell someone its mandatory to pick up a high tier character is your own BS opinion. Most people think like you because most of the high tier characters are easy to win with in tourneys at a lower level. But people like Aniki and Neo are pros that win huge, and they play lower tier characters.

No- it doesn't make you honorable-there isn't much honor in ssbm. Yes, it makes you a little more unique because their are fewer low tier players than high tier players.

But this is a game. Who said that people play it solely to win? Maybe people like the challenge of winning with characters that are low tier. Maybe people just like playing that character like you like playing fox. Maybe people don't go to tourneys to win.

Most people play their mains because they have a lot of experience with them. Why throw that experience away and start all over? Just play with whoever-your not going pro anyway.

 

[phanna]

Why are people challenging SOLAR with names like Chu and Dire? Did you even read his post?

If you want to stand out, then do it by winning.

He's just saying: If you suck, stop using your character choice as a john.

 

[mood4food77]

the tier list shows how easy a character can be used to place well in a tournament, meaning that fox/falco have an easier time placing in a tournament than teh rest of the crew

the learning curves of the lower tiered characters is also steeper than all of the upper tiered characters (with teh exception of ICs), it takes a lot more practice with a lower tiered character than a high tiered one to become "good".

yes there are players who use low tier characters and place high in tournaments (heck, i used g&w my first tournament because he was the only character i was doing well with, tied for last but did give a marth a challenge) but there are so few and people praise them like they're so amazing, it's skill with the character that proves how good you are, like if i used pichu and won like 3 MLG's in a row (this is for example only), people would probably give me more credit for winning something with a pichu than ken winning the biggest tournament ever with marth because of tier placement

the tier list is based on overall tournament placement with the characters, chu dat's skills with the ICs is far greater than trail's and meeps (i think the next best IC users in the US), people keep saying chu dat uses them, he's number 2 in US, why aren't they up there, because that the other people who use them do not place as high as chu

yes i know it's long but it answered most of the questions here, i'm saying that a person should use whoever he/she wants to, just they'll have a much easier time with someone higher on the tier list

 

[Endless Nightmares]

I use Game & Watch, but I'm not trying to be "unique or honorable."

I use him because he's my best character, and he can be an asset in tourneys because people will be like WTF Game & Watch! A lot of people don't know his moveset and stuff.

Plus he attacks in frames. That's always good.

I noticed that if I pick G&W my opponent will often pick a low tier character too. Not sure why, but it helps me a little.

 

[Deleted member]

It's not that placing high with low tier characters can't be done, it's just that no one wants to go through the work to become a Jedi.

false. I've put a lot of time into both fox and mewtwo. No Jedi skills are going to save Mewtwo.

 

[Dodger]

I use Game & Watch, but I'm not trying to be "unique or honorable."

I use him because he's my best character, and he can be an asset in tourneys because people will be like WTF Game & Watch! A lot of people don't know his moveset and stuff.

Plus he attacks in frames. That's always good.

I noticed that if I pick G&W my opponent will often pick a low tier character too. Not sure why, but it helps me a little.

Haha yeah, people do that to me a lot too. :-)

I know I won't ever win big playing as Kirby, but I do apprecaite the compliments my kirby gets when I play. That's probably the main reason I play Kirby. I'd rather be an above average Kirby than a mediocre fox or whatever. :-)

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

I noticed that if I pick G&W my opponent will often pick a low tier character too. Not sure why, but it helps me a little.

I'm sure all low tier players have had this happen to them. Most of the time, it's because they aren't confident for whatever reason. Either they don't want to risk losing with their main against a low tier, or they know the matchup better with a low tier (because of low tier tournaments). There is also the chance that the low tier is their actual main...

The other thing i see a lot is people who try every single character that they play against my low tiers. This happens most often with people who lose with their first character (usually some random low tier they don't even play). And they keep going, no matter how many matches they lose...