Beating the Infinite. Feel free to add.

[Nafix]

We're not talking about team infinites. And you did not do fox's infinite on corneria for 7 min. Fox can only infinite against a wall so the final attack can be teched. The climbers can infinite anywhere. You must not bbe playing very good people if they're letting you infinite them.

 

[TAK$]

reguardless, i did do it for 7 mins (yes i could have killed him at any time but it was too funny), i can care less of what you belive or do not belive when i dont even know you, i'm not even going to bother continue talking about this, as it has been talked over countless times already.

edited for clarity.

 

[1048576]

Stalling = illegal. With the wall infinite, the kill blow can be teched, and many characters just fall on the ground, disabling it. With the ground infinite, DI occurs, making it unviable for human hands and human minds to continue the perfect prediction and finger speed required to infinite with it, and again, many characters fall down, making it unusable. IC's have the only real infinite in the game that is reliable and practical in a high-caliber tournament with money on the line.

 

[Overswarm]

Stalling = illegal. With the wall infinite, the kill blow can be teched, and many characters just fall on the ground, disabling it. With the ground infinite, DI occurs, making it unviable for human hands and human minds to continue the perfect prediction and finger speed required to infinite with it, and again, many characters fall down, making it unusable. IC's have the only real infinite in the game that is reliable and practical in a high-caliber tournament with money on the line.

Which is exactly why they have won every tournamnet since it was discovered.

 

[Undrdog]

Well the IC do have THREE infinites... If you want to do an infinite that doesn't make you seem cheap, then do the one I discovered. Though something tells me you wippersnappers don't know what I'm talking about.

Anyway I figured I'd stop in the IC forums for awhile. So I'll give my opinions.

It's ok to use the infinite but for only one reason. In high level fights, Metagames are a must. And if you are in the semi finals, and you know your opponent in the finals is a beast. Prove first you are owning your current opponent, and then use the infinite to hide your metagames.

I honestly never used this. I typically got eliminated by high rankers such as Chu, Neo, Ken and Azen during my tounies so I never got to that point. And the tournies I won weren't much competition. v_v

And by the way, by MLG standards technically alot of characters have infinites, though it's never enforced. Such as Peaches chain grab on CF, Falco occasionally on Foxes.

 

[1048576]

you obviously don't understand him/never played him, so i wouldnt talk if i were you, and as far ic's having the only real infinite, i hope you're joking.

Who's him? This is a discussion about the infinite itself, not its namesake.

 

[juganthestar]

This topic is senseless.
No character is balanced in this game. Thats why tiers exist although i dont like them
So stop yapping about the IC infinite saying its bloody unbalanced when nearly the whole of IC air game is nerfed. They have the infinite and grabs, they dont have a Air game thats worth staying in the air for. Nearly all high tiers stay in the air.
Stop your whining

And the non Cheap infinite is Dthrow-Dair? Like perfectly done? Because i think thats cool =D

 

[Mr. Derp]

usually evena decent button masher can get out of it if they are before 20% cuase if nana is even a little far away you have enough time to break out. Theres really only one time when using the infinite is really gay, and thats in friendlies.

 

[mood4food77]

even if timed wrong, you can get at least 60% more on the opponent, 20% is just from mashing a followed by a blizzard

 

[mark.]

Well the IC do have THREE infinites...

thank you SO much. havent seen you in a while~
anyways, if you wanna use it, go ahead, whos gonna stop you the cheap police?

and since when was this called wobbling? wobbles didnt make it. (did bring it to attention again, thanks very much o.o)

 

[Mr. Derp]

use your thumb to mash a,b, and y and your other to twirl control stick. its not 100% guaranteed! if your quick enough they cant really get it started.

By the way, ness should be banned cause he can d-tilt you when your against the wall. those ness players where right, he really is top tier!

 

[1048576]

use your thumb to mash a,b, and y and your other to twirl control stick. its not 100% guaranteed! if your quick enough they cant really get it started.

By the way, ness should be banned cause he can d-tilt you when your against the wall. those ness players where right, he really is top tier!

It's much easier to not go against a wall with another wall next to it with Ness facing towards the wall and get hit with D-Tilt than it is to not get grabbed with Nana around. Also, IC's air game isn't that bad. The d-air sets up wobbling perfectly and causes many chaingrabs. The fair is a bit slow but it has a large hit range and it's disjointed. The bair has good knockback, little startup time, and little lag. It's like Fox's bair, except a little less powerful, but disjointed. The uair has great priority and is very useful for juggles or to poke at platform camping opponents. The nair is rather weak, but so are most sex kicks.

 

[Kizzu-kun]

The Wind in the Kirby Stages (Green Greens, Dreamland) can desynch Nana when Wobbling if you are luckly.
You also can spend some time in the edges, since you can't be grabbed here (but caution with IC EdgeGuard... its annoying xD~). Plataform game is welcome.
Stage Counterpicking don't do so well (obvious this break the Wobbling), because if I chooses an Stage that is horrible to IC, my opponent aren't going to use IC (at least here in Brazil, since here the stages are selected before the characters.)
(sry, poor eng. Xd~)

 

[Mcscruff]

I think the IC infinite is cheap and gay. Its easy to do, and requires no skill at all. but i have no problem with it being used in tourney. if an IC starts to infinite me ill either pause the game in the middle to screw up his timing, or hit the controller out of his hand. it wont get me disqualified. its just as gay as the infinite.

 

[chu12ch]

If an IC starts to infinite me ill either pause the game in the middle to screw up his timing, or hit the controller out of his hand. it wont get me disqualified. its just as gay as the infinite.

Let's just try to get that to be accepted as a legitimate way to counter it...

 

[juganthestar]

Touching your opponent is legal?
I swear you cant pause without a legit reason?
Wobble rocks

 

[PointyStikODoom]

Without joking, the way i get out of the infinite is to stop trying...but it only works cause the only person in my area who ever feels the need to wobble isnt very good at it, and for some reason, if you try to get out and then stop, he screws up...

Mind games!

 

[1048576]

In a tourney, I would say A, A, A, A, A, A, A, etc... with timing a bit too slow to perform an infinite Wobble. Hopefully my opponent wouldn't be able to sort through the false timing I'm giving him/her, so I can escape. Does anyone think that will work in a tournament setting.

 

[Kizzu-kun]

Without joking, the way i get out of the infinite is to stop trying...but it only works cause the only person in my area who ever feels the need to wobble isnt very good at it, and for some reason, if you try to get out and then stop, he screws up...

Mind games!

The inverse seems to work too, don't try to get out then sudden mash the buttons.
At tournaments this works only if the opponent isn't so focused in the battle.

 

[Lixivium]

Getting out of the infinite:

I pause the game and pretend I accidentally hit the start button while mashing.

It works once per every couple of matches.

 

[Goldkirby]

I welcome new tactics in a game such as the infinite. You know why? It takes the game up to a whole new level. You have to learn how to play against and counter people who use these strategies. The IC infinite is not cheap, because in a real match, it is hard to set up. I really don't care if someone infinites me, because that FORCES me to learn how to play against that move, and overall, get better at the game. Props to wobble for discovering this grab. There's nothing cheap about it at all.

 

[Wobbles]

I didn't discover it... it's been known about since before I started playing in 2004. Nobody else thought it was cool or feasible, and I'm pretty sure there were about 3 other IC players in the world -_-

Oh, and Lixivium, I would DQ you even for doing it on accident ^_^ Especially since NOW I KNOW THE TRUTH.

 

[1048576]

I'm pretty sure you can only take one stock for accidentally pausing, and that seems fair, considering that would be the expected result of the infinite anyway. It's not that hard to set up considering the results. Yes, it can be countered, nobody's denying that. The problem arises from the discrepancy between the required skill of the players. If I fail to counter any other character's primary tactic for 7/60 of a second, I take about 50 damage, and that's a very generous estimate. If I fail to counter the IC's primary tactic for about 7/60 of a second, I take, ummm... I'd guess like 200ish damage. Whatever, I lose the stock. Anyway, I think that I'm the only one adamantly against the infinite, and I'm receiving flames for it, and you all probably think I'm a stubborn idiot, so if you want me to drop the argument, just say so, and I'll be glad to, since it's going nowhere.

To counter the infinite: Use quick moves (less than 7 frames of start-up and less than sixish fames of lag [you need some frames to get away if you miss, since shielding won't work]) when Popo and Nana are together. When you finally land an attack on Nana and not Popo, seperate the stunned Nana with mid-level attacks. (like tilts) When they are separated, use your kill moves on Nana. Also, before the tourney, play against a competent IC's. You need to drive shielding out of your muscle memory because shielding will almost always result in a loss of stock when Nana is present.

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Hmm last time I checked life isn't fair, and on top of that winning by any means is still winning. As for skill.........how often do IC's get infinites not sure.....but I can guess, especially at higher level play. Oh yeah, I don't see many "pro" class players posting here, I wonder why? In other words the "cheapness" factor of the "infinite" is really only a serious problem for those not at the highest levels of play...in that case you can assure yourself that if you only stopped considering the move cheap and got over the "gimpy" factor of it than you may actually win. You know why there is a "pro" class......cuz they know what to do in most every sitaution and they adapt. This is just another thing to adapt to, if you don't realize that and expect to win by ignoring the possibility of getting killed by a grab then you should prolly re-evaluate your stance in this game. Do you know how to play? Read up if you don't, and train yourself to play this, no excuses.


Oh yah and you think this is cheap......try playing a fox who runs around shling and shdling your *** on dreamland or FD, where the only person who can keep up is captain falcon....yah talk about "cheap." On top of that there are stages where the infinite even if they get it won't kill you if you're in the right position......take advantage of stages.....onett anyone, corneria?

 

[Wobbles]

Sorry if I've seemed abrasive Numbers. You generally make decent, non-belligerent posts and should be respected for that, even though we don't agree ^_^

Cheers for Numbers.

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Decency and Formality do not make up for incompetence and fickle play.

 

[Chaotix_0]

You have to learn how to play against and counter people who use these strategies. The IC infinite is not cheap, because in a real match, it is hard to set up. I really don't care if someone infinites me, because that FORCES me to learn how to play against that move, and overall, get better at the game. Props to wobble for discovering this grab.

You cannot counter an infinite combo that you cannot escape.

You cannot "learn a strategy" to do what is physically impossible.

You cannot "get better at the game" by getting owned by an inescapable attack sequence.

The score:
Chaotix_0: 1
GoldKirby: 0

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

Caotic_x, you are a fool. Gold kirby does not mean that you can develop a means to get out of the combo so much as a means to prevents its start.

In other words, you're making excuses for the fact that you get grabbed very easily and have no counter-active aspects to your game.

Gold Kirby : 1
Caotic_x : -10000000
DCLO : 1

 

[juganthestar]

Honestly, all you people who complain about the IC infinite reminds me of scrubs who say this:

'OMG GRABS ARE SO CHEAP ZOMG'

comon people honestly, getting infinited makes you better because of the following:

1) You get your pants scared and you will be more careful, it is as isai says 'just dont get hit'
2) You will find out the true power of Nana meaning you will learn that nana is the real target

You cannot "get better at the game" by getting owned by an inescapable attack sequence.

You can learn, you learn from mistakes, you dont learn from thinking your all brilliant. You think your the best so you play reckless.

For numbers: You must get infinited plenty of time for you to hate it that much. Honestly a 7 frame lag means you need to do something whih I call L-Cancel

 

[Shai Hulud]

Play against my Ice Climbers and you'll realize the infinite is cheap. I barely know how to do anything else with IC, but I completely mastered the infinite in a couple hours. If I get a grab, you die.

I don't think people have a problem with an infinte per se; it's just that this particular infinite is VERY easy to do. The combo is identical against every character and the timing never changes depending on percentage. Assuming you can master a simple button rhythm and can average one grab per stock, EVEN IF YOU CAN DO NOTHING ELSE, you will win with Ice Climbers.

Still--as long as it's legal, I'm doing it. Oh, and if anyone pauses the game or touches me the match should forfeit to me.

Is it legal to scream A A A A A at your opponent? That seems a little sketchy...

 

[juganthestar]

Assuming you can master a simple button rhythm and can average one grab per stock, EVEN IF YOU CAN DO NOTHING ELSE, you will win with Ice Climbers.

Honestly that is so wrong, it phails. Obviuosly you play against people who love to get shieldgrabbed and grabbed in particular if you win with the infinite alone. I have been playing IC's since i first got this game (I did use roy abit though, dont deny, everyone has used roy before smashboards because of Fsmash), you are not winning with just the infinite. If it is the extreme case where you will win, then Ice Climbers Top Tier, they climbed their way to the top.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Honestly that is so wrong, it phails. Obviuosly you play against people who love to get shieldgrabbed and grabbed in particular if you win with the infinite alone. I have been playing IC's since i first got this game (I did use roy abit though, dont deny, everyone has used roy before smashboards because of Fsmash), you are not winning with just the infinite. If it is the extreme case where you will win, then Ice Climbers Top Tier, they climbed their way to the top.

Actually if you average one grab per life with both ICs, and use those grabs for infinites 100% of the time, you will win the vast majority of your matches. Or else you would be averaging fewer than one grab per life, or else missing infinites.

I'm not very good with ICs. I just started playing them a couple days ago because I needed a Sheik counter. So I come onto these boards and saw the nice infinite thread by Wobbles and decided to learn that. And I have learned it.

I haven't had a chance to play anyone good yet with ICs, so it's all speculation on my part.

Also--can't ICs chainthrow a lot of characters at low % with Dthrow? So even if Nana isn't nearby, couldn't you just chainthrow with Popo until she caught up, then start the infinite?

And I never used Roy =p

 

[juganthestar]

How do quote the thing where it says 'originally posted by juganthestar'? o_O

And I never used Roy =p

Whoa seriuos?

can't ICs chainthrow a lot of characters at low % with Dthrow?

Not really, for shieks yeah, you pawned her hardcore, but for others nah you cant

Actually if you average one grab per life with both ICs, and use those grabs for infinites 100% of the time, you will win the vast majority of your matches. Or else you would be averaging fewer than one grab per life, or else missing infinites.

That is quite true actually. Thanks for the insight on odds. I like those odds. But still, getting a grab in with nana in place is more rare then you guys think. You need some massive *** mindgames to do it versus people who play Falco and the like who likes to jump.

 

[Chaotix_0]

Caotic_x, you are a fool. Gold kirby does not mean that you can develop a means to get out of the combo so much as a means to prevents its start.

In other words, you're making excuses for the fact that you get grabbed very easily and have no counter-active aspects to your game.

Wow you can't read into someone else's post then make it seem like something more than it originally was. He obviously did not mean that, just as I obviously didn't say anything about getting grabbed very easily. You should put a tad more thought behind your posts so as not to seem like an ***, calling people out for no reason. I'll forgive you though, I don't want to turn this into an argument.

Oh and plz, try to spell my name right if you are going to badmouth me.

 

[Baamage]

Did you ever think the reason that Smash's notable lack of infinites IS the reason that people get so riled up over Wobbling?

If every single character had an infinite, then infinites are no longer such a big deal; it's a matter of who lands one first.

But if only one character had a true infinite, it makes that character seem unbalanced compared to all the others.

If that was so, then the ICs would be at the top of the tier list.

 

[Spontaneous Spaz]

not true. the reason a character is at the top of the tier list is because of how well it fares off agains everyone else of equal skill

fox and falco are top tier becuase they have more ways to kill everyone, than anyone else. if the ice climbers only had 1 way to kill someone... infinite, they'd probably be bottom tier, because a good player can get away from the IC and dodge grabs.
the reason IC are 7th from top is because they have such an awesome wave dash, grab chains, yes an infinite, and crazy awesome desyncs. but because of their weight and suck recovery, they are relatively easy to kill

 

[stalfos]

the reason IC are 7th from top is because they have such an awesome wave dash, grab chains, yes an infinite, and crazy awesome desyncs. but because of their weight and suck recovery, they are relatively easy to kill

Something I've missed? O.o Wtf...

 

[1048576]

Hmm last time I checked life isn't fair, and on top of that winning by any means is still winning. As for skill.........how often do IC's get infinites not sure.....but I can guess, especially at higher level play. Oh yeah, I don't see many "pro" class players posting here, I wonder why? In other words the "cheapness" factor of the "infinite" is really only a serious problem for those not at the highest levels of play...in that case you can assure yourself that if you only stopped considering the move cheap and got over the "gimpy" factor of it than you may actually win. You know why there is a "pro" class......cuz they know what to do in most every sitaution and they adapt. This is just another thing to adapt to, if you don't realize that and expect to win by ignoring the possibility of getting killed by a grab then you should prolly re-evaluate your stance in this game. Do you know how to play? Read up if you don't, and train yourself to play this, no excuses.


Oh yah and you think this is cheap......try playing a fox who runs around shling and shdling your *** on dreamland or FD, where the only person who can keep up is captain falcon....yah talk about "cheap." On top of that there are stages where the infinite even if they get it won't kill you if you're in the right position......take advantage of stages.....onett anyone, corneria?

Isn't Onett banned because of Fox's infinite? (I really don't know, but I know there are a lot of stages banned because of Fox's infinite.) Hmmm... how interesting. Whatever. That leaves Corneria and Rainbow Cruise. You can probably get a game out of Rainbow Cruise, but the arwing in Corneria is too unreliable as a method of disrupting the infinite. That being said, I'll admit that I'm not the best player here. I do know all the terminology, and I can play reasonably well. I don't complain about any cheap tactics other than this one. Also, I'm usually the one performing the infinite; not my opponents. When I win against people I know are better than me, there's a problem. I know how to avoid it. Everyone does. The problem is not making four mistakes in an entire match, as I've said 1000 ways 1000 times. Pros get plenty of infinites at higher levels of play. Wobbles got three against Edrees's Peach (forgive me for misspelling that.) Even pros make mistakes. I can adapt to my opponent's style. Again, almost everyone who posts here can. The problem is when you fail to adapt for 7/60 of a second, you die. I've been shined before. I don't die every time. I've also escaped an F-Smash and a Pillar without dying. My opponents have never escaped a well executed infinite without dying. Isn't that interseting. And all I have to do is hold forward and tap "A". Oh, and I can ignore the possibility of getting killed by a grab. I play IC's SHDL isn't cheap. It requires a lot of skill for like 5 damage.

Oh, by the way, Wobbles is as cool as the other side of the pillow.

Also, to whoever suggested L-Cancelling: There are many aerials that have seven or more frames of lag even with L-Cancelling. L-Cancelling only cuts the lag in half. It does not eliminate it. Even so, you still need about three frames after the L-Cancel to jab if the IC's are trying to grab you. There aren't too many aerials with four or fewer frames of lag.

 

[Wobbles]

Also, IC's get an extra advantage when shieldgrabbing people. Nana's shield stun interferes with the opponent's L-cancelling (a big bonus) and it also gives them extra hit stun that does not affect Popo's actions (yet another bonus). Shieldgrabbing with the IC's is incredibly easy if the opponent spaces attacks incorrectly.

A shieldgrab with Nana intact is also the easiest way to set up an infinite, so if you play against an IC that infinites, you will learn how not to attack shields or how to space against them with your aerials and ground attacks. Just some insight.

 

[shiva39]

This may be somewhat out of place, but several videos have intrigued me...

Why is it that games like MvC2 and whatever else have so many infinites? Do developers create them? Do they neglect the physics system? Or what?

If someone with even an ounce more knowledge than me could give me some insight, that'd be awesome.